After immigrant killed in NY, others tell of abuse

[AlphaCentauri]

Source: AP

The high school buddies who trolled the streets looking for Hispanics to attack called it "beaner hopping."

"Jose, Kevin and I started popping and Jose punched him so hard he knocked him out," Anthony Harfford told police.

Harfford said he didn't do it often: "Maybe only once a week."

There had been other high-profile attacks on a growing Hispanic population on eastern Long Island before Ecuadorean immigrant Marcelo Lucero was stabbed to death a year ago Sunday on a street corner.

But it wasn't until the seven teens accused in the killing told police of the attacks — and Hispanic residents who had been long silent about hate crimes came forward to confirm the stories — that officials began to realize what they were dealing with.



Read more: http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5gXtvFKyiS3m-AcoQ079xFIFqgRbAD9BQJ2HG0

[AllieB]

1. k&r

[imdjh]

2. I'm sure the stats on who does what to whom and with what frequency would be enlightening.

Moreover, if you are afraid to call 911 because you are in this country illegally, then you need to examine your integrity.

[edwardian]

6. I suggest you

examine your integrity. As if illegal aliens enjoy being forced to be here illegally. The force, btw, is economic necessity.
Time to examine your own sense of entitlement and superiority. Sheesh!

[sledgehammer]

9. While I totally disagree with the previous posters' views

I have to say that no one is forced to be here illegally. People choose to come here, mostly for economic reasons.

It's interesting how DUers are very sympathetic toward illegal immigrants, but if you mention certain legal immigration programs then it's like a bloodbath - no words are spared, no sentiments are off-limits.

With that said, I'm very sympathetic toward illegal immigrants and understand quite well their struggles. But I hate the hypocrisy of being sympathetic to illegal immigrants while bashing legal immigration. Not saying you exhibit this hypocrisy, but it exists in general on DU.

[treestar]

10. You mean bashing H-1Bs?

Some people are against illegal immigration, but also want to cut back on legal immigration. Since they think that if an H-1b does not come, any American with a high school diploma can take the job that some H1B with a Masters degree was doing.

[sledgehammer]

17. The H1 program needs a serious look

There's an unacceptable level of fraud, and there are some justification issues in this economy. The Durbin-Grassley bill is a first step (though it's too mild in my opinion).

I totally accept that people don't like the H1 program and other similar programs. Makes sense. But it's the hate that surprises me. Some of the comments are incredible.

I posted this a while back on an H1 thread, check it out:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=3707220&mesg_id=3710932

[treestar]

20. The job market isn't a zero sum game, though

As I said, a construction worker can't take the job an H professional would do, but could have that H professional as a customer of a company that would hire the construction worker.

That's why it's hate, not really an economic argument. They kick themselves in the foot, and would deprive Americans of the lower level jobs they could have if there were more higher level people here. It's like they are inadvertently against the brain drain, which contributed to the US being the richest country in the world.

[imdjh]

32. Are you sure about that? Chase had the H1 workers come to Florida to be trained...

... by the people they were replacing. Empowered high school educated customer service reps, info techs, paper pushers, and others who had worked their way up through the ranks, were training replacements from India who supposedly had degrees and who are known almost universally for their uselessness on the other end of a phone.

[sledgehammer]

48. I don't think people are suggesting that a construction worker take a programmer job

But could a laid-off American citizen programmer effectively do the job of an H-1 programmer? In many cases, yes (though not all e.g. very specific skill, which is rarer these days).

I don't have problems with the arguments about the program - there's certainly debate to be had. But I have an issue with the "get them out of here and stop bringing them in" attitude toward legal immigrants when the attitude toward illegal immigrants is very different.

[Kali]

11. who bashes legal imigration?

I have never seen that.

I get irritated at the over-simplistic notion that Mexicans and other Latin American immigrants "should just do it legally" espoused by ignorant posters who HAVE NO CLUE how difficult that actually is. Like, it's harder than walking 5 days across the desert at the risk of ones very life. That is how fucking hard it is to "just do it legally"

Is that what you meant? Or do you really mean there are people on DU who complain about immigrants who do it legally?

[sledgehammer]

16. Have you not read any of the H-1/L-1 threads?

The hate toward this program is insane, and the comments that follow are nothing short of frightening. Search the threads - you'll might be surprised.

I'm not saying the H1/L1 program doesn't have its problems - it definitely does and it needs an overhaul. But it's a legal immigration program, and taxes are paid by those working under the program.

Most immigrants come to America for economic reasons. Some do it legally and pay taxes, others cross the border illegally and don't contribute very much to local/state/federal coffers. But one group gets lots of love, the other group gets lots of hate.

[Kali]

22. Oh - ok, sorry

I confess I'm not really up on that.

Slight correction - illegals often pay plenty of taxes and contribute as much as anybody, if not more because they don't benefit from many tax supported programs.

[sledgehammer]

25. Thanks for the correction about the taxes

You are right, it's easy to sometimes forget that the taxes are cut before the paycheck is doled out. So outside of cash only businesses, illegals will end up paying quite a bit of taxes.

[imdjh]

28. When discussing detached individuals you might be correct there.

But as a group, illegal immigrants are a net loss to the US economically and an environmental issue unto themselves.

To say that illegal don't benefit from "many" tax supported programs is to casually avoid the fact that they do indeed cost the US tax payer considerably in social services, education, health care, police, incarceration, immigration enforcement and other government services.

[Kali]

45. I think there is a debate about that (immigration "enforcemnt" is a sick game)

and I don't really have a problem with helping people anyway.

[sledgehammer]

18. Read this...something I posted a while back

Summarizes my thoughts:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=3707220&mesg_id=3710932

You'll even find quite a few people who are opposed to any foreign students in the US.

[Kali]

23. oh you would read that about Mexican illegal workers too.

and worse

I have read some truly awful stuff here in posts about the deaths of migrants. Very disturbing, the complete lack of empathy because those people BROKE THE LAW, don't you know. They deserve what they get (death) because of a civil offense (not having a piece of paper - oh and lets not forget the ultimate sin of being poor).

[sledgehammer]

26. Possibly

Though I haven't seen too many, but will keep an eye out.

But I think you would hear lots of people condemn the vitriol. Not so much when it comes to H1/L1s. Everyone just feeds the fire.

[cosmicone]

44. Yep

I have seen many threads like that.

[AlphaCentauri]

35. Human rights make a huge difference when we talk about illegal and legal

immigrants, since legal immigrants have full rights they most likely will have all the tools to defend them selves.

[Kali]

7. nice attitude there, Lou

[imdjh]

12. Yeah, real stats suck. Here some "Lou Dobbs" reality for you.

Latino-vs.-black violence drives hate crimes in L.A. County to 5-year high

The County Human Relations Commission reports a 28% increase last year, with assaults and vandalism the leading categories.

By Teresa Watanabe, Los Angeles Times Staff Writer|July 25, 2008
Hate crimes in Los Angeles County rose to their highest level in five years last year, led by attacks between Latinos and blacks, officials said Thursday.


...................


The largest number of racial hate crimes involved Latino suspects against black victims, followed by black suspects against Latino victims.

Latinos also made up the largest number of suspects in hate crimes based on sexual orientation. Whites were the leading suspects in religion-based incidents.

Overall, blacks made up nearly half the hate crime victims, totaling 310.


See, some folks like to portray things differently from what they are and then wonder why effective ideas are hard to come by.

[Flaneur]

15. So...what's your point?

I don't see what this has to do with racist punks attacking immigrants on Long Island.

[Kali]

21. I was refering to your second sentence, actually. Blame the victim.

people afraid to call the police are AFRAID, not unethical

as for your stats, the thought jumps out right away: "hmm what are the poverty/employment stats that should be included here?" along with "yep there is the classic example of the success of getting the victims of shitty policy to fight amongst themselves instead of looking at who/where the real problems come from"

"See, some folks like to portray things differently from what they are and then wonder why effective ideas are hard to come by." - that I certainly do agree with, although I suspect we disagree with how things "really are"

[AlphaCentauri]

36. Poverty Vs. Poverty

Where are the statistics of those Latinos and African Americans future opportunities after they graduate from HS?. Will they have the money to attend college or their parents received enough educations to succeed in the free market world?

[elehhhhna]

3. "jose" goes "beaner hopping"? WTH?

[imdjh]

4. Almost makes it seem like three native Americans went after an immigrant.

But it's much more dramatic if you paint it as blond on brown.

Wanna take a wild guess on which ethnic group attacks Latinos the most?

[AlphaCentauri]

37. What we can see is that youngsters are attacking immigrants

because adults are teaching kids to hate latinos.

[imdjh]

40. So who's teaching latinos to hate blacks and anglos?

Or is latino on other violent crime based in some other dynamic?

[AlphaCentauri]

41. The first gangs that promoted hate were white

so everybody else is learning from that example

[provis99]

46. do you have a link for that claim?

or is it just some racist white bashing you're indulging in?

[AlphaCentauri]

50. This one comes to mind

www.kkklan.com

[pampango]

5. Wait until the rw backlash comes again when immigration reform comes up. "Beaner hopping"

will probably hit new "heights". My guess it that Limbaugh, Beck, and Dobbs have got their scripts already written (they really just have to dust off and update their 2007 scripts) and are just salivating waiting for the president to propose immigration reform. A few months of equating Hispanics with "illegal", "stealing" jobs, and wanting "amnesty" (they must be guilty of something) will do nothing to lessen the attacks on Hispanics, legal or otherwise.

Illegal immigrants subject to "beaner hopping", poor crime victims (particularly African-American and Hispanic) who live in "bad neighborhoods", or women not reporting rape all have a reason for their reluctance to contact the police when they are victimized. The suggestion that they were in the wrong place at the wrong time hardly solves the problem or absolves the perpetrator of his guilt, even if the crime is never reported.

[Zavulon]

8. If the immigration "reform" is anything like the

shit Bush tried with Ted Kennedy or is as badly put-together as this "buy insurance or go to jail" health care reform, you have nothing to worry about. It'll take the better part of a year to put together, it will be a shitty bill, most of America will hate it, and a lot of politicians who would normally vote for it will exhibit political cowardice and vote against it.

[pampango]

19. The version that Obama's been talking about has the support of organized labor, so that's a step

in the right direction this time. In 2007 labor split on immigration reform. This time around there seems to be more unanimity. Hopefully that helps the prospects.

[imdjh]

31. The immigration reform that we need is to enforce immigration laws, and close the loophole. nt

[Hulk]

13. Just keep them in the shadows....and all will "look well".

This is the government we OWN. We harbor slave labor for the "small businesses" and corporations to exploit. They are afraid to stick their heads out in our legal system, because we'll ship them back out of country and destroy their families and lives.

Gives our thugs and punks somebody to pick on that can't fight back. Proud America!

I'm hoping Congress will again, ignore the fucktards in the gop/wing-nut party remnants and go full steam ahead on fixing this obscene problem WE own.

[MarlaM]

14. I don't get it. Jose beat someone, therefore anti-Hispanic hatred took place?

The aticle seems confusing.

[AlphaCentauri]

38. looks like Jose wanted to be accepted in Anthony's social circle n/t

[mnofdichotomy]

24. will it end?

will it end? racism is being made into a non issue by republicans.

[proteus_lives]

27. Future episode of Law and Order;

[imdjh]

29. I would love to see crime stats according to Law And Order

Seriously- every murder in Manhattan is committed by upper middle class or wealthy people.

[proteus_lives]

30. Or connects back to one.

The show, while entertaining, doesn't reflect real crime trends.

[imdjh]

33. Poor people are boring. "I killed her 'cause I needed 20 bucks."

Hard to work complex story lines and fill an hour of junkies and plain old dirtbags killing family, neighbors, tourist, and passersby.

I did love the blond Australian serial killer though. "This isn't over, Bobby"

[proteus_lives]

34. Me too.

They had real chemistry together.

Real crime is boring for the most part. Most murder investigations end in like two days.

[JonQ]

39. I would advise tourists and americans from other states to avoid the north east

if at all possible.

They have a vicious racist streak up there and violence against people who talk funny or look different is very common. By far the worst part of the country.

Even just having a different accent is enough to evoke violent, often fatal beatings.

Stay away from this region filled with domestic terrorists.

[AlphaCentauri]

42. don't forget Texas

[JonQ]

43. Nope, mostly just the north east

they're by far the worst.

[provis99]

47. you left your sarcasm smilie off.

come on, every one knows Texas is the most racist state in the country. They're so racist, they're prejudiced against real Americans, and want to secede from America.

[JonQ]

51. Not sarcasm

this one incident has convinced me. I've always suspected the north was evil, and this seals the deal. Statistics to the contrary and rational arguments are no good against deeply held prejudices.

By the way, how can you be "racist" against a heterogeneous population?

[Solly Mack]

49. K&R