Schools emerge as new tactic in gay marriage votes

[WillParkinson]

Source: The Associated Press

Schools emerge as new tactic in gay marriage votes
By The Associated Press
11.06.2009 3:30pm EST

(San Francisco) In one ad after another, voters in California and Maine were besieged with images of what would supposedly happen if same-sex marriage were legal: Students on a field trip to a lesbian wedding, elementary kids gobbling up books featuring gay couples, kindergartners learning about homosexuality from their teachers.

The strategy worked. Overruling the courts and lawmakers, voters defeated gay marriage ballot measures in California last year and in Maine this week after conservatives convinced residents that same-sex unions would become common classroom fodder without any say from parents.

The punch-to-the gut claim has emerged as the latest tool in the ever-evolving playbook of same-sex marriage opponents, and the Achilles’ heel of the gay-marriage movement. Voters seem to be swayed by the notion that gay marriage will be a corrupting force among children, even though critics blasted the message as a blatantly misleading case of fear-mongering.

Read more: http://www.365gay.com/news/schools-emerge-as-new-tactic-in-gay-marriage-votes/

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Because fear always works.

[Solly Mack]

1. K/R

[sasquatch]

2. "Because fear always works."

Then we should use it.

[Angry Dragon]

3. YES

But use fear with compassion and not hate

[Johnboi70]

4. As a community, we need to go after these hate groups before we can make any progress.

As long as hate groups can spread their lies with impunity, no progress is possible. Worse, they're scaring up a mob and handing them pitchforks.

These are hate groups and need to be exposed as such. Gay rights leaders should not appear with these people on TV... when was the last time you saw a NAACP vs KKK debate on racial equality?? Why are we lending them our legitimacy by appearing with them?

We need to go after their privileged, tax-exempt status. If we can't get it revoked, we should at least force them to defend it in court.

We need to show the public what hate looks like. Their own advertising speaks for itself. Leaders of these groups always go to great pains to claim that they aren't hate groups, why are we letting them do that unchallenged?? Hate is hate, no matter how you code it or spin it. Hiding behind Jesus' robe doesn't change the fact that you're a bigot.

As long as we cede the initiative to these groups, we will find ourselves hated, demonized, and attacked at every turn. As long as we allow them to put OUR RIGHTS up for a vote, they will win, because it gives them the opportunity to frame the debate how they want and then lie like they do in this article.

I've said this before, but I'll say it again... Why are we letting Bush off the hook for this?!? He put anti-gay marriage initiatives on ballots across the country to help with his reelection. He gave these hate groups publicity, legitimacy, encouragement, AND public money. We are under attack now because of that SOB. We should shadow him constantly.

[gorfle]

5. We have to kill the whole "choice" thing.

So long as there is a pervasive feeling that homosexuality is a "lifestyle choice", the anti-homosexual crowd will continually play the song of fear that people will be "corrupted" into being gay.

If we could conclusively show that sexual orientation is not a choice, this whole argument would dry up. If you can't be made gay, what harm is there in going to a lesbian wedding? If you can't be made gay, what harm is there in reading books about homosexuality? If you can't be made gay, what harm is there in learning about homosexuality from a teacher?

The whole anti-gay movement hinges on the concept that homosexuality is a moral corruption.

The sooner we can demonstrate conclusively that people don't choose their sexual orientation the faster the anti-gay movement dies.

[Johnboi70]

7. Isn't being a member of a hate group a lifestyle choice?? n/t

[KTinOhio]

8. So what if it's a choice?

Don't people have the right to make choices in their personal lives?

[gorfle]

12. Doesn't matter to me.

So what if it's a choice? Don't people have the right to make choices in their personal lives?

Doesn't matter to me. But when you claim it's a choice, you open yourself up to being judged based on your choices. Plus I just love taking the wind of the "god hates fags" crowd's sails. If you're born that way then you are born just the way god wanted you to be, right? I also love debunking the whole "you can learn to not be gay" bullshit that they try and push. I'd love to see them go to the "learn to be gay" school and see if they could learn to be gay!

Every single gay person I've ever asked, and it numbers about 7, has told me they did not choose their sexual orientation. I know that I, as a straight person, did not choose my sexual orientation. In fact, I've never met a single person who told me they chose their sexual orientation.

Now there are people, I know, who do make choices about how to get off. I read an article the other day about the pilots who fly UAVs in Afghanistan and they talked about how they see everything - including men who sneak out at night to have sex with their livestock. I'm pretty sure that is a choice and not a biological condition! :)

But I think the vast majority of homosexuals are born with their sexual orientation, just as most of us are.

Are there any gay people here who chose to be gay?

[Johnboi70]

22. My only choice was whether or not to live a life of denial and misery. n/t

[Doc Martin]

10. It is worse than you think

Not being a choice will change some minds but...


Institutional leaders in the Catholic church officially acknowledge that the etiology of homosexuality is unknown and say that it could well be genetic. But, that doesn't matter, even if a person is born gay, the inclination alone is considered an "objective disorder." Notice the use of language (objective) as if reason were behind this claim. If we could help some of these institutional leaders of the Catholic church overcome the fear of their own homosexuality they would not need to project it on to others.

[gorfle]

13. Yep

Institutional leaders in the Catholic church officially acknowledge that the etiology of homosexuality is unknown and say that it could well be genetic. But, that doesn't matter, even if a person is born gay, the inclination alone is considered an "objective disorder." Notice the use of language (objective) as if reason were behind this claim. If we could help some of these institutional leaders of the Catholic church overcome the fear of their own homosexuality they would not need to project it on to others.

Yep, the Catholic church sees that they are being painted into a corner. They see the handwriting on the wall that a biological basis for sexual orientation is probably soon forthcoming and consequently they have preemptively said that well, you might naturally be gay but this is just a test that God has given you so you have to remain celibate anyway. Of course this is a crock of shit.

[Doc Martin]

15. Yep. You got it... a pre-emptive strike against science

[gorfle]

16. This is not the first time they have done this

Just recently the Catholic church issued some edict that says they don't have a problem if life is found on other planets. I right away saw this as preemptively addressing what probably will come to pass very soon. Better to say, "see! We told you so" rather than having to back-pedal and explain why you were still saying the Earth is the center of life in the universe.

[XemaSab]

23. I think the other thing that needs to be killed is the idea that being gay equals having gay sex

When teachers talk about a boy and a girl going on a date, does that mean that the teacher mentions that they spent time frenching, the boy grabbed the girl's boobs, and they spent a half an hour frotting each other in the back of a car?

When teachers mention that a man and a woman got married, does the teacher go into details about exactly what kinds of sex the couple had on their wedding night?

Then why do people assume that if a teacher mentions a gay couple that means that the teacher has to go into details about what gay people do together? :shrug:

[David__77]

26. I completely, totally disagree.

What we have to kill is the whole "homosexuality is immoral" thing. Even if homosexuality were determined to be definitely rooted in genetic differences from heterosexuals (which I do not think will ever be "proven") the right will not endorse homosexuality is "normal." They will compare it with findings that alcoholism is also genetic in origin, and say that "despite people's genetics, people must avoid immoral, destructive activity."

I'm gay by the way, though I probably shouldn't even qualify my statements with that...

[Turbineguy]

6. It's a process of education

to overcome fear and ignorance.

[Doc Martin]

9. Thank God a Catholic bishop is protecting children?

Has no one noticed the irony? The Catholic bishop of Portland ME was a force in this election. US Catholic bishops have lost what little credibility they had in the Church (the people of God) when paperwork subpoenaed in the pedophilia scandals demonstrated a consistent primary concern for protecting religion from being undermined (this is known as "scandal" in Catholic lingo). Concern for the victims and their families (the people of God who make up the Church) was virtually absent in the church records. This gay marriage crusade is not really about gays, it is about institutional leaders trying to re-claim authority. This project has been going on since the last pope took over. I don't suppose that either Joseph Ratzinger (current pope) or John Paul II ever considered the possibility that Church attendance by American Catholics has dropped by 50% because of their 'leadership.' Most Catholics in Maine opposed the change in the law although the majority of those who regularly attend church supported doing away with same sex marriage. These are nuances which are useful to understand if we are to understand the underlying dynamics.

[saigon68]

11. These Leaders are actually heads of a Crime Syndicate

More insidious and EVIL than any Organized Crime Family.

The largest syndicate of child molesters and hateful Bigots in the good old USA.

Protected by the tax system and their evil money grubbing leaders as they have proceeded for years, to Sodomize and Rape countless young children.

[Doc Martin]

14. Former OK Governor Frank Keating agrees with you

He was called in by the US Catholic bishops to head up a panel on the pedophilia scandal. After he was on the job, he compared the bishops and their secrecy to the Mafia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Keating

[No Elephants]

24. I think you are underestimating the impact of the Bible. This is not just about power and so on.

If you say homosexuality is not offensive to God, you have to figure out a way to reconcile that statement with statements in the Bible to the contrary, especially the Pauline letters in the NT. And I am not sure how you do that without also saying that 2000 (give or take) years of your teaching about the Bible was mistaken.

IMO, the way to go is to say that personal religious belief, or a particular interpretation of the Bible, should not affect secular law.

[glinda]

17. People are really this stupid? And yes, their aggression will wear us all down.

[Zoeisright]

20. They'll lose. Conservatives always lose. It will take time, but they lose.

They've lost on every issue, from slavery to allowing women the vote to civil rights to abortion to interracial marriage to Social Security and Medicare. That's one of the reasons they're so angry. The world changes and they won't change with it.

They'll lose on this issue too.

[David Zephyr]

18. Christians spreading lies, fear, hatred and bigotry...again.

“The trend that we are seeing is homosexuality is being promoted more and more in schools, and the increase in this is creating a hostile environment for kids with Christian or socially conservative viewpoints,” said Candi Cushman, education analyst for the Christian group Focus on the Family."

These are the same fucking monsters who cause 1/3 of teen suicides by destroying gay kids' identities.

The 'love of Jesus' from his fan club is something to behold in America today.

[Johnyawl]

19. That tactic didn't work in Washington state

They tried the same thing here, and it didn't work.

[Aristus]

27. Damn right it didn't! We still have a way to go up here in Washington, but we protect the civil

rights of our residents, at least... :thumbsup:

Hi, John! :hi: Say 'hi' to Geni for me! B-)

[DrZeeLit]

21. Um.. when was the last time ANY student took ANY field trip to ANY wedding???

Why would a wedding be a field trip destination?

Don't people actually THINK about stuff like that when the ads roll across the screen?

No, guess now.
Duh.

[No Elephants]

25. Fear mongering works best on the dim of wit.

Schools in some New England districts have taken the position that they must embrace the issue from the earliest years in order to keep kids of gay parents safe from bullying and the like. That it is part of the duty of a school acting in loco parentis.

Whether or not that is correct, I think it ought to be done. I thought one of the kindergarten books chosen was a mistake because it was, IMO, age inappropriate. But, overall, the idea is good one.