Report: Kosmas now a no vote on health care reform bill

[Freddie Stubbs]

Source: WDBO

A Central Florida Democrat is breaking ranks with her party and now says she doesn't support the House version of the health care reform bill.

Freshman Congresswoman Suzanne Kosmas' office tells WDBO she would go against Speaker Nancy Pelosi's more than $1 trillion plan. She says she is especially concerned with the bill's price tags and tax increases for wealthier Americans.

Kosmas' decision will be unwelcome news for Pelosi: she needs to wrangle every vote she can get ahead of a vote on the bill planned for Saturday.

Fellow freshman Congressman Alan Grayson has been a strong supporter of the reform bill.

Read more: http://wdbo.com/localnews/2009/11/report-kosmas-now-a-no-vote-on.html

[high density]

1. Sounds like a one term congresswoman to me. Bring on the primary challenge.

I'm generally not a fan of litmus tests, but if you're for the rich while people are dying out there, it's clear you're in the wrong party.

[FBaggins]

3. I understand the concern

But that could easily cost us the seat.

The trick here will be to get a large enough majority to let some of these close seats have some cover.

[high density]

6. What good is the seat if the person filling it cannot support basic core ideals of the party?

The number game of "how many seats have they got" is great for twits to talk about on MSNBC, but what we need are productive seats that can support the party and President. If the majority we currently have is not enough "cover," then we will never have enough to satisfy these people.

[FBaggins]

7. There are hundreds upon hundreds of votes each year

I think it's fair to say that she would vote with us more often than whoever replaces her.

"Give me everything I want or you're no better than someone who gives me nothing at all" has never been an effective political position.

[high density]

8. I would typically agree with you, but being on the status quo side of health care reform...

...is a major problem. It's the sort of issue that makes a lot of other things moot.

[Freddie Stubbs]

12. You are assuming that because she is opposed to this particular bill that she is in favor of

the status quo. She may support a different solution to the problem.

[high density]

19. This is the bill and she chooses not to support it. That is support for the status quo.

It's that simple at this point.

[Freddie Stubbs]

20. If the bill fails they can go back to the drawing board and create a better one

[high density]

23. If the bill fails, that's the end.

The Democrats are not going to get an infinite number of tries to pass this thing. The comments of this woman make it very clear she is not interested in a "better bill."

[Freddie Stubbs]

25. There are 423 days untill the new Congress is sworn in

That is plenty of time to get it right.

[high density]

27. What in the negotiations show that we can get a better bill?

Waiting longer seems to lead to things being watered down, not being improved for the better. This congresswoman does not want a better bill. Republicans do not want a better bill. These people against it all just want it to hang around for as long as possible so they can continue to rant against it and try to make it weaker.

[Freddie Stubbs]

31. A better bill would be one which has broader support among Democrats

[high density]

32. How does one accomplish that exactly?

Go one way and the left drops off. Go the other way and the "Blue Cross dogs" drop off. What we have currently is broadly supported.

[Freddie Stubbs]

35. If it is so broadly supported, then you don't need the Ms. Kosmas' vote or

the votes of any of the Blue Dogs, right?

The Blue Dogs are the ones whose asses are going to be on the line in the next election. They represent districts which are either split equally between the parities or where Republicans are in the majority. If the liberals want to stay in the majority, they are going to have to compromise with the more moderate Democrats in the caucus.

[high density]

38. Hold on a minute. It's November and there have been months of compromise already.

There will be additional compromises made in conference. It's time for our elected representatives to shit or get off the pot. Obama and the Democrats as a whole will own whatever is passed. Compromising for the sake of more compromise isn't a good thing for the citizens or the reelection chances of any Democrat. House leaders should not sink the party simply because a slice of Blue Cross Dogs and a freshman from Florida want to act like Republicans.

[Freddie Stubbs]

40. Then let them try and pass it without the moderates. They don't have the votes without them

[quakerboy]

37. If it goes to the drawingboard,

If we start at scratch, one of two things will happen.

Either it will get better(as they feel the pressure to make it happen for us).

Or it will get significantly worse(as they drop even token resistance to corporate demands in order to be absolutely certain that they have the votes to pass a bill) .

Doing a quick once over of the past 20-30 years, which would seem more probable to you?

[calimary]

44. No they can't. And they certainly won't.

That will be the worst of all worlds.

It will:

A) further empower and embolden the Party of "NO."

B) grow big, bright, fat yellow stripes down the backs of wavering Dems who MIGHT have been arm-twistable here - finally finally finally to get something accomplished on this issue for the first time since Harry Truman's day.

C) likely ensure that we lose the majority in 2010, or come close enough that revisiting health care reform thus hobbled isn't even considered an option any longer.

D) give more momentum to the glenn peckers and the tea baggers who'll LOUDLY and WIDELY call this a big personal victory, which may also give them more of their own running for and maybe even winning Congressional seats of their own.

E) dispirit and discourage TOO MANY Democratic grass-roots activists who gave their all AND THEN SOME last year to win workable majorities in both Houses of Congress EXPRESSLY to address some of these long-overdue necessities. And we saw full well how a discouraged base tends to say "the hell with it" and stay home on Election Day.

We will VERY PROBABLY NOT get another shot OF ANY SORT at this - for maybe another generation if we fail now - while we still have a chance!!!! Do you really want to risk that? I say we twist her arm til it damn near breaks off. As i - if she wants or expects ANYTHING for her district besides a used snot rag, she better find a way to be okay with this. Sometimes you've gotta go for it while there's still time. Because the longer this drags out, the less and less hope we have for a positive outcome of ANY sort. Which is exactly why the bad guys are trying desperately to string this out as long as they can. People lose their guts, their enthusiasm, their resolve, after awhile. If you can wear 'em down, you've stolen their win. It's too much to risk.

[No Elephants]

15. Sorry, but health care is the most important vote since the Civil Rights Act.

Know what happened in the states where Democrats voted against the Civil Rights Act in droves? They vote Republican now.

[Freddie Stubbs]

16. Who decided that supporting this particular bill is a basic core ideal of the party?

As with any piece of legislation, the devil is in the details.

[high density]

21. So you don't think health care reform is a core ideal of the Democratic party?

Are you arguing just for the sake of arguing now? The bill in the House is the bill that's getting voted on. That is the definition of health care reform in its current manifestation in relation to this woman. It is past time for talking about other options that have already been considered. There is nothing new this congresswoman can add to the conversation that hasn't already been said. She says she is worried about the costs for rich people (which is one of the same canards thrown up by Olympia Snowe), and that's not a valid reason for any Democrat to be against this landmark legislation. She wants the bill to be even weaker. Nothing is going to be good enough for some of these people!

[Freddie Stubbs]

24. Sure it is, but many Democrats do not agree on what specifics that reform should take

This bill does not have to be the be-all and end-all of health care reform. If it fails the House can take a better bill.

[Joe Chi Minh]

26. The mere fact that she doesn't want to raise the income tax on the rich

rings a very loud alarm bell with any genuine Democrat. Why are you so deaf to it? You are a disgrace to this board.

[Freddie Stubbs]

34. Despite what Republcians would like for everyone to beleive, not all Democrats want to raise taxes

[Joe Chi Minh]

42. Nice try. Raising taxes is not the issue. Very far from it. It is repealing the taxes

on those least able to pay them, and restoring them to where they belong: on those who profit most from what the citizenry of the country have built up over centuries. Namely, the rich.

Is that a little clearer now, Frederick? I know you're not too swift in these taxation matters.

[Joe Chi Minh]

53. Someone on another thread, calling himself Blue Dog, suggested it could be a good idea

to levy the Tobin tax on all financial transactions, so that everyone else could have their income tax reduced.

In other words, if the rich in the financial sector had their taxes raised in that way, why, the rest of the rich could have their income-tax reduced, together with the rest of the population - evidently, on the coat-tails of a repeal or reduction of the tax on the mass of the poorer citizens.

Several things spring to mind.

1) In very principle, every Administration should always be striving to increase the income on the rich, because it is guaranteed that they will fight to their dying breath to pay no income-tax at all, themselves;

2) The last two tax-reductions on the rich, under the Bush Administration were, by any standards monstrous, particularly given the worsening economy and dire impoverishment of the general public;

3) The rich (with relatively rare exceptions) have a mental block about the notion of "proportionality", when considered in relation to income tax - which term, ironically, fully and unambiguously implies proportionality. Since they seem congenitally hard-wired not to be able to grasp the concept, there is nothing quite like teaching them the meaning of it in the most practical, possible way. The abstract theory of it is evidently inscrutable to them, indeed, completely opaque;

4) Most important of all, it teaches them social responsibility; that they are their brother's keeper, just like Cain was supposed to be. By paying ample income-tax, in proportion to their ample income, as Adam Smith exhorted, they would, at least, have some, at least theoretical, chance of learning the importance of engaging with their fellow-citizens, in order, together, to build up an admirable, cohesive, caring society, such as can be found, perhaps most notably, in Scandinavia.

[FlaGranny]

45. 144,000 dead people each year. n/t

[C_Lawyer09]

52. Exactly

Who decided indeed. Lets just hurry and sell ourselves out. Beat it to fit and paint it to match right? The devil IS in the details... Isn't it a 1,000 page plus bill, minus the fine print. The onus is on us to craft a damn good bill, not a damn expedient one. I agree wholeheartedly

[Florida Blue]

48. There will be an attempt in Florida

by the legislature which is so gerrymandered that 3/4 do not have an opposition challenger, to do over all the Democratic US House Districts to eliminate as many as possible. Grayson will be the first on their list. We will see the "Texas trick" in every state that has a Republican Governor and Legislature after the census.

[No Elephants]

13. Could have cost us the seat? Are you sure? And so what? If Democrats who get elected

vote with Republicans when it really matters, what is the point of voting for them?

[kenfrequed]

4. Agreed

This Congresswoman needs to go. What surprises me is that most of the independent and supposedly moderate voters out there are not agaisnt healthcare reform. How is this serving her constituents at all?

[lsewpershad]

29. Spot on

One time for sure. We should start recruiting a real democrat.

[FBaggins]

30. Three Questions

1) Do you believe that "real democrats" look the same in all areas of the country

2) If yes - do you believe that a "real democrat" can win in every district (no matter how "red").

3) Given that #2 must be a "no" - If given the choice between candidates a 65% liberal voting record or a 100% conservative voting record... who would you select?

[FBaggins]

2. Interestng. Grayson is the one

in the more endagered seat.

Then again... that seat went from a 16% Republican win in 2006 to a 16% Democratic win in 2008. I suppose she could be in danger depending on the challenger... but Grayson is clearly the one you would expect to buckle.

[Freddie Stubbs]

9. Kosmas' district is more Republican that Grayson's

[FBaggins]

11. That's right

I forgot about Feeny's Abramoff trouble.

Allow me to revise and extend my remarks. She's most certainly in a seat that will be difficult to hold next year.

The flip side of that truth is that voting against health reform likely won't do anything to keep that from happening. She might as well actually do what she came to Washington to do... because she only has a year to do it.

But that still makes the "kick her out with a primary challenge" a non-option. It would guarantee losing the seat.

And frankly, I'd still prefer to have someone there who voted with us 25% of the time than 10)% against.

[LynnTheDem]

5. Yes, let 44,829 Americans die every year rather than increasing rich peoples' taxes.

Coz that's just The American Way!1!

Kosmas...a "democrat" that needs to go buh bye.

[asjr]

10. Was the platform on which she ran just

her shoes? Hearing these reps and sens talk about the "cost" of the plan just irritates me. Of course it will cost money. But where were these people when Bushie cut taxes for his rich buddies and got scads of money for his wars? Citing the cost of health care as a reason to not vote for it tells me a hell of a lot about the person saying it. It says they are not informed and don't give a damn and are trying to make themselves look reasonable for their constiutents votes.

[Freddie Stubbs]

14. She was not in Congress when the Bush tax cuts were passed or when any wars were started

And she never promised to support a public option when she ran for Congress.

[No Elephants]

17. She's in congress now and I don't care what she promised during the campaign.

It's never too late to do the correct thing.


BTW, did she campaign on voting against even a weak public option?

[Freddie Stubbs]

22. The voters in her district may care what she promised during the campaign

Considering that she was elected to a Republican-leaning district, it is unlikely that she got elected promising to radically alter the country's health care system.

[No Elephants]

18. I can't believe she said she was concerned about tax increases FOR WEALTHIER Americans, as

opposed to putting a period after tax increases.


Sadly, the DNC and Party notables will support her anyway if there is a primary challenger. The policy of supporting the incumbent in a primary, no matter what, needs to end, along with super delegates.

[Joe Chi Minh]

28. How about Messrs Stubbs and Baggins, then? They sound like two bank robbers don't

they? Perhaps they're two of Wall Street's finest!

[quakerboy]

41. I think its fairly obvious

Stubbs has a big blue dog in his postings. I think that is a big clue on where he is coming from. Its not where I am coming from, and it confounds me. Sometimes I have trouble with this big tent idea, and wonder at the wisdom of it. When those in a party have such radically different conceptions of what needs to be, how can they be reconciled?

[Joe Chi Minh]

43. A man cannot serve two masters, right? So... they worship money. It's

that simple.

[Egnever]

33. lol she is concerned over tax increases on wealthy americans

Isnt that special.

[geek tragedy]

36. Trying to protect the rich and willing to screw over America's future

to do so?

She can go sit with the Republicans.

[MaineDem]

39. We're concerned about Michaud here in Maine

He's still an unknown D.

[ngant17]

46. She needs to review her decision, it is a good plan overall

I voted for Kosmas, she represents my district in Oviedo (Seminole County), Fla. She replaced the Repug Tom Feeney, that was progress for sure. Feeney attacked her as being inexperienced, a charge which was irrevelant IMHO.

Unfortunately Kosmas isn't going along with the plan which is being fully supported by Grayson, who represents the adjacent district in Orlando.

She needs to tune out all the rightwing propaganda and start thinking rationally and logically about the whole health care issue. Any country that can spend billions of dollars a year to wage 2 futile wars in SW Asia simultaneously (not to mention the gigantic cost of collateral damages, such as in Fort Hood), there is no question a small percentage of this money can be allocated toward the civilian sector instead of the gluttons within the military industrial complex.

[Cass]

47. Tax increases for the wealthy especially concern her.

More so than the 45,000 who die each year because they have no access to health care.

She sure made her priorities crystal clear.

[Blue_Tires]

49. tax increases for wealthy americans?

talk about missing the point...(or maybe she gets the point completely, if that's the side her campaign contribution bread is buttered on)...

[Doremus]

50. We don't need her then. Put somebody in her spot that will serve the people!

[flpab]

51. Kosmas

I worked my butt off for her to get elected and she does this! I just emailed her and said she can forget any support from me. I am sick. I called her office yesterday to make sure she voted to pass the bill and talked to the rep about other concerns she has never addressed. Money talks, she is very wealthy.

[watercolors]

54. I sent her a contact letter and expressed my disapointment

I will not vote for her again, she is not much better than Feeny. You are correct she is weaalthy and it hurts them in the pocket. That where her vote came from!!