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ozymandius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-06-09 05:40 AM
Original message
STOCK MARKET WATCH, Friday November 6
Source: du

STOCK MARKET WATCH, Friday November 6, 2009

Bush Administration Officials Convicted = 1
Name(s): David Safavian

Bush Administration Officials Charged = 1
Name(s): Richard Lopez Razo

Financial Sector Officials Convicted = 6

AT THE CLOSING BELL ON November 5, 2009

Dow... 10,005.96 +203.82 (+2.08%)
Nasdaq... 2,105.32 +49.80 (+2.42%)
S&P 500... 1,066.63 +20.13 (+1.92%)
Gold future... 1,090 +2.20 (+0.20%)
10-Yr Bond... 3.52 0.00 (-0.09%)
30-Year Bond 4.39 0.00 (-0.09%)




U.S. FUTURES & MARKETS INDICATORS
NASDAQ FUTURES..............................................S&P FUTURES


Market Conditions During Trading Hours



GOLD, EURO, YEN, Loonie, Silver and US$



Handy Links - Market Data and News:
Economic Calendar    Marketwatch Data    Bloomberg Economic News    Yahoo! Finance
    Google Finance    LayoffDaily    Bank Tracker    Credit Union Tracker

Handy Links - Economic Blogs:
The Big Picture    Financial Sense    Calculated Risk    Naked Capitalism    Credit Writedowns
    Brad DeLong    Bonddad    Atrios    goldmansachs666

Handy Links - Government Issues:
LegitGov    Open Government    Earmark Database    USA spending.gov









This thread contains opinions and observations. Individuals may post their experiences, inferences and opinions on this thread. However, it should not be construed as advice. It is unethical (and probably illegal) for financial recommendations to be given here.

Read more: du
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ozymandius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-06-09 05:43 AM
Response to Original message
1. Market Observation
Not as Good as Some Believe
BY MICHAEL PANZNER


The Labor Department today reported that nonfarm productivity rose 9.5% in the third quarter, the fastest pace in six years. Boosted by lower than expected labor costs, the bigger-than-expected jump was widely hailed as positive by economists and stock traders. Huh? In a debt-challenged, consumer-dependent economy like ours, where a growing number of Americans are struggling to get by, the fact that businesses continue to benefit from squeezing wages and cutting jobs would seem to be the recipe for social unrest and revolution, not a return to economic good fortune.
.....

Speaking of things that aren’t necessarily as good as some believe, the reaction in fixed-income markets to continued money printing in the U.S. and elsewhere suggests that not everyone is happy about being “rescued.” While nominal bond yields remain relatively low in most developed countries, the spreads between long and short-term rates continue to work their way higher, suggesting investors are increasingly worried about a rising tide of supply, the threat of inflation, or both.
.....

As far as share markets are concerned, there are any number of issues that give cause for concern. In addition to the fact that we’ve seen lackluster volume on rallies, assorted momentum divergences, excessive speculation in low quality shares, and relentless insider selling, two other indicators also suggest the risk is to the downside.

The first relates to the fact that advance decline line appears to be breaking beneath a trend line that has been in place since the March 9th lows, confirming a similar breakdown that occurred in the S&P 500 and other U.S. indices last week.

http://www.financialsense.com/Market/wrapup.htm
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ozymandius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-06-09 05:45 AM
Response to Original message
2. Today's Reports
08:30 Unemployment Rate Oct
Briefing.com 10.0%
Consensus 9.9%
Prior 9.8%

08:30 Average Workweek Oct
Briefing.com 33.0
Consensus 33.1
Prior 33.0

08:30 Hourly Earnings Oct
Briefing.com 0.0%
Consensus 0.1%
Prior 0.1%

10:00 Wholesale Inventories Sep
Briefing.com -1.1%
Consensus -1.0%
Prior -1.3%

14:00 Consumer Credit Sep
Briefing.com -$10.0B
Consensus -$10.0B
Prior -$12.0B

http://www.briefing.com/Investor/Public/Calendars/EconomicCalendar.htm
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UpInArms Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-06-09 08:33 AM
Response to Reply #2
34. Oct. nonfarm payrolls fall 190,000 - U6 alternative jobless rate up to 17.5%
8:30a U.S. Oct. unemployment rises to 15.7 million

8:30a U.S. unemployment rate highest since April 1983

8:30a U.S. Oct. U6 alternative jobless rate up to 17.5%

8:30a U.S. Oct. manufacturing payrolls fall 61,000

8:30a U.S. Aug., Sept. payrolls revised up 91,000

8:30a U.S. Oct. average workweek steady at 33 hours

8:30a U.S. Oct. average hourly earnings rise 0.3%

8:30a U.S. Oct. unemployment rate rises to 10.2%

8:30a U.S. Oct. nonfarm payrolls fall 190,000
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DemReadingDU Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-06-09 08:36 AM
Response to Reply #34
35. Uh oh. Unemployment rises to 10.2%

:(

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Roland99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-06-09 09:24 AM
Response to Reply #35
39. 22nd straight month of job losses. 9 months into Obama's admin. Same % was 2 yrs into Reagan
Edited on Fri Nov-06-09 09:27 AM by Roland99
Bet the right didn't blame the almighty Reagan even after 2 years.

'course...it might have been on the way down in '83. I haven't looked that up yet. Probably should. :-)

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DemReadingDU Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-06-09 09:31 AM
Response to Reply #39
41. U3 and U6 Unemployment during the Great Depression

5/12/09 U3 and U6 Unemployment during the Great Depression

A frequent meme propounded in the economic blogosphere is that U6 unemployment, running near 17% now, is a truer measure (and there are good reasons to believe it is), so that means we have unemployment already approaching Great Depression levels of 25%. Left out of the comparison is the fact that U3 and U6 measurements didn't exist during the 1930s. So, is the 25% unemployment peak for the Great Depression a fair comparison to U6 unemployment today?

Nelson Andrews compared historical versions of unemployment statistics with the modern U3 and U6 versions, published as "Historical Unemployment in Relationship to Today" , has an answer. He writes:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/13282170/Unemployment-1930s-vs-Today

Based on that research, he was able to generate a mathematical formula to calculate U3 and U6 unemployment for the entire period since 1900. He found that at the peak of the Great Depression, U3 was 25.2%. U6 was 37.6%.

If Nelson is correct, the notion in the blogosphere that current U6 unemployment levels are close to those of the Great Depression appears to be false, and indeed, far off the mark. Using Nelson's methodology, our currrent U3 and U6 unemployment are both very close to the figures in 1930, which is bad enough. But they are less than half of the unemployment that existed at the peak of the Great Depression.

http://www.economicpopulist.org/?q=content/u3-and-u6-unemployment-during-great-depression


That was interesting



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Birthmark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-06-09 10:45 AM
Response to Reply #39
42. In 1983, the U-3 (seasonally adjusted) was coming down.
The U-3 first topped 10% in Sep82 (10.1%) and continued above 10% for nine months until Jun83 (10.1%), reaching a high of 10.8% in Nov and Dec82.
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Roland99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-06-09 11:11 AM
Response to Reply #42
44. So, nearly a full 2 yrs into Reagan's admin it peaked and HELD there for nearly a year.
We'll do well to remember this and be sure to bring it up in debate. ;-)

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Birthmark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-06-09 11:37 AM
Response to Reply #44
47. Correct on all counts.
But I doubt that mere facts will actually help us. They haven't helped so far.
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Dr.Phool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-06-09 12:01 PM
Response to Reply #44
48. I was laid off for 2 solid years back then.
But, my health insurance stayed in effect.

And actually I had a lot of fun. I was single, no responsibilities. I remember looking at houses back then, and the interest rates were something like 17% on a VA loan.

I remember St Ronnie so fondly.
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tclambert Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-06-09 03:55 PM
Response to Reply #44
54. "You can't blame that on Reagan!" I can hear THEM saying.
"Reagan inherited a mess from Carter! President Bush left Obama a perfectly healthy economy! Wait . . . um, NEVER MIND! Look over there! Look at the monkey! Look at the silly monkey! Canadian health care sucks! Global warming is a hoax created by Al Gore!"
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tclambert Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-06-09 04:16 PM
Response to Reply #54
56. Still, 10.2% is bad.
If I were President, I'd give people any damn kind of jobs I could think of. Plant flowers by the roadsides. Build pyramids. Build giant solar farms in Arizona. Build desalination plants in California. Build a giant 20 foot wall around Texas to protect the rest of the country from their stupid politicians. (Whoops, sorry, AnneD. Need a tunnel from Austin to Oklahoma, so the sane Texans can get out once in awhile.) Clean all the graffiti off New York City subway trains. Then paint whimsical messages on all the trains. Then clean them off again. Send an army of workers with sledge hammers to break Goldman Sachs into little tiny pieces.

Oh, here's a good one: Rebuild New Orleans!

At this point, I don't care if the jobs are inherently beneficial. Make-work jobs will at least keep people busy and provide a small income while they wait for "real" jobs. It shouldn't be that hard to come up with genuinely beneficial jobs, though. Urban beautification (pulling weeds and picking up trash in the cities) at least makes the world a little prettier. C'mon, they are extending unemployment benefits. Why not give the unemployed something to do while you're at it?
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Roland99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-06-09 03:24 PM
Response to Reply #2
50. Consumer debt drops for record eighth straight month
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Ghost Dog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-06-09 03:32 PM
Response to Reply #50
51. -$14.8B (-$10B expected)
Edited on Fri Nov-06-09 03:39 PM by Ghost Dog
* Consumer credit: Falls for a record eighth month in a row, $14.8B in September to $2.46T, 4.7% below the year-ago figure. Economists expected a $10B decline. The drop led once again by a decline in credit-card debt, which fell for a 12th month, $9.9B to $889B - a 13.3% annualized rate. Nonrevolving debt fell at an annual rate of 3.7%, $4.9B to $1.57T. - http://seekingalpha.com/news/market_currents/post/36053


Borrowing fell more than economists predicted, declining by $14.8 billion, or 7.2 percent at an annual rate, to $2.46 trillion, according to a Federal Reserve report released today in Washington. Credit dropped by $9.86 billion in August, less than previously estimated. The consecutive declines were the most since records began in 1943.

A labor market that kept losing jobs in October threatens to limit consumer spending, which accounts for about 70 percent of the world’s largest economy.

/... http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601068&sid=a1AE._kwvm3c
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Roland99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-06-09 04:05 PM
Response to Reply #51
55. Plus they're not spending more on credit as credit limits are lowered, cards are canceled, ....
mortgages aren't approved (perhaps leading more to rent instead of buy), etc.

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ozymandius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-06-09 05:47 AM
Response to Original message
3. Oil nears $80 a barrel amid stock market surge
SINGAPORE – Oil prices climbed toward $80 a barrel Friday in Asia as crude investors eyed a surge in global stock markets.
.....

Oil traders often look to stock markets for a sense of overall investor sentiment, and the Dow Jones industrial average rose 2.1 percent Thursday on better-than-expected jobless claims numbers and positive forecasts by Cisco Systems Inc. All major Asia indexes were also up in Friday trading.

Crude investors are also watching signs in recent weeks of a drop in U.S. oil supplies, which increased sharply this year as demand shrank. Some analysts forecast higher oil prices next year as the economy strengthens and demand recovers.
.....

In other Nymex trading, heating oil rose 0.85 cent to $2.07 a gallon. Gasoline for December delivery gained 0.96 cent to $2.00 a gallon. Natural gas for December delivery fell 1.5 cents to $4.77 per 1,000 cubic feet.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/oil_prices
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ozymandius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-06-09 05:51 AM
Response to Original message
4. Unemployment nears 10 pct. as rebound remains slow
WASHINGTON – The economy is rebounding from its deepest slump since the 1930s, but it probably won't seem that way when the government releases its monthly employment report on Friday.

Employers aren't expected to start adding jobs for several more months. Many are skeptical about the strength and sustainability of the recovery.
.....

Most economists think the rate will eventually surpass 10 percent, a level last seen in June 1983.
.....

Still, jobs likely will remain scarce even as the economy improves. The uncertainty surrounding the pace of the recovery has made many employers reluctant to hire, economists said. And many companies have cut hours for workers still on their payrolls, which means they can add those hours back before hiring new people.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091106/ap_on_bi_go_ec_fi/us_economy
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Demeter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-06-09 07:50 AM
Response to Reply #4
24. If This Is a Rebound, I'd Hate to See Prostration
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ozymandius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-06-09 05:55 AM
Response to Original message
5. BofA says credit environment remains difficult
CHARLOTTE, N.C. – Bank of America Corp. on Thursday reiterated that the current credit environment will remain difficult into next year, as unemployment is likely to continue to rise.

Brian Moynihan, head of the bank's consumer and small business banking units, told investors at the BancAnalysts Association of Boston Conference that Bank of America is starting to see some stabilization in the credit card business, but challenges remain.

The Charlotte, N.C.-based bank has about 53 million consumer and small business customers, making it vulnerable to delinquencies and defaults, yet also ready to thrive when the economy recovers.
.....

In the third-quarter, Bank of America lost more than $2.2 billion as loan losses kept rising, providing evidence that consumers are still struggling to pay their bills.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091105/ap_on_bi_ge/us_bank_of_america_credit_card_business
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ozymandius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-06-09 05:58 AM
Response to Original message
6. U.S. stock futures trade near two-week highs before data
LONDON (MarketWatch) -- U.S. stock futures on Friday held near two-week highs ahead of data that is expected to show the fewest jobs lost in 14 months.

S&P 500 futures edged three-tenths of a point lower to 1,062.90 while Nasdaq 100 futures rose a half point to 1,719.70. Futures on the Dow Jones Industrial Average weakened by a point.

U.S. stocks surged on Thursday after upbeat economic data and positive results from Cisco Systems, sending the Dow Jones Industrial Average back over the 10,000 mark with a 203 point outburst. The S&P 500 rose 20 points and the Nasdaq Composite surged 49 points.
.....

The unemployment rate likely rose by a tenth of a percentage point to 9.9%, which would be the highest in 26 years. Some analysts are predicting a 10% or even a 10.1% jobless rate in October.

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/us-futures-trade-near-two-week-highs-before-data-2009-11-06
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ozymandius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-06-09 06:05 AM
Response to Original message
7. Fannie’s Draws From Emergency Treasury Fund Reach $60 Billion
Nov. 6 (Bloomberg) -- Fannie Mae, the mortgage buyer seized by regulators, plans to tap emergency U.S. capital for a fourth time this year, bringing its draws of taxpayer money to $60 billion as the company sees no immediate end to its losses.

Fannie Mae will seek $15 billion in Treasury Department financing after posting an $18.9 billion third-quarter net loss, according to a Securities and Exchange Commission filing late yesterday. The Washington-based company, which posted $101.6 billion in losses over the previous eight quarters, has already tapped $44.9 billion from the $200 billion emergency lifeline.
.....

Losses will continue and the company remains “dependent on the continued support of Treasury to continue operating,” Fannie Mae said in the filing. The company said any profit it does make would be eaten up by $6.1 billion in annual dividend payments owed on the Treasury borrowings, a cost that exceeded its annual net income for five of the past seven years.
.....

Treasury officials are considering whether to let Goldman Sachs Group Inc., the most profitable securities firm in Wall Street history, buy some of the tax credits. The purchase would lower the investment bank’s tax bill. Fannie Mae has accumulated about $5.2 billion in the credits, and hasn’t been able to recognize the majority of the tax benefits because it hasn’t been profitable since 2007.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601103&sid=aTtl8uiGkfxc
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ozymandius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-06-09 06:34 AM
Response to Reply #7
11. Worst Idea of 2009
Floyd Norris:
The Wall Street Journal reports today that Goldman Sachs is trying to arrange to buy tax credits from Fannie Mae. Obviously, it would buy them at a discount.

Goldman, you may recall, was saved with taxpayer money when the panic spread last year. A naïve person might think such a company would see a patriotic virtue in paying taxes.

Fannie Mae is currently a ward of the government. So this boils down to a proposal to pay Uncle Sam perhaps 15 cents to avoid paying 20 cents to Uncle Sam. The gall involved in even proposing such a thing is awesome.
http://norris.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/11/02/worst-idea-of-2009/



So Goldman Sachs gets to claim a handsome profit through sleight of hand. You and I will be stuck with the tab for what they do not pay in taxes. I really hate these people.
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tclambert Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-06-09 07:47 AM
Response to Reply #11
23. Is that a vote that Goldman Sachs is more evil than Exxon Mobil?
Exxon has been at it longer, and has benefited from actual wars. I still gotta give the edge to Exxon. But Goldman certainly seems determined to fight for the title.
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Loge23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-06-09 08:07 AM
Response to Reply #23
30. They hate Democracy
Most of the posters on this website are considered unpatriotic by the right for espousing democratic ideas.
What about companies, notably GS and EXXON (there are many more) that have subverted democracy to sate their own very undemocratic greed?
They have siphoned off from the public trough - essentially stole from us - public funds to propagate their own private interests.
Even as elected representatives (owned by corporations) stage demonstrations on the Capitol steps, complete with signs comparing Health reform to Dachau; why can't the public see that the actions of GS and their ilk place them among the true enemies of freedom and democracy?


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tclambert Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-06-09 04:27 PM
Response to Reply #30
57. But "greed is good" and "government is the problem" and
"we don't need no stinkin' regulations" because "the free market is always right" and "the profit motive always drives people to do what's best." It was all that kind of crazy talk during the Bush regime that pushed me from Independent to Democrat. I just couldn't get any Republicans to discuss issues rationally any more.

These big corporations regard lobbying as an investment for profit. They see government as a resource they can buy and use to turn a profit. They see law as another resource they can buy. Responsibility is a cost they try hard to reduce. We need some powerful institution to act as a check and balance system against them. I know! Let's call it "government."
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Roland99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-06-09 09:25 AM
Response to Reply #7
40. When in the hell is Obama going to WAKE UP and purge the Goldman execs from his admin?!?!
NJ woke up and told Corzine to take a hike.
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Demeter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-06-09 11:27 AM
Response to Reply #40
45. We Need a Pool For That
With NEVER being one of the options.
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Roland99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-06-09 08:56 PM
Response to Reply #45
63. No kidding.
:-(
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ozymandius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-06-09 06:15 AM
Response to Original message
8. Reed Apologizes for Glass Steagall Repeal, Building Citigroup
This might mean something if he had made an apology from jail. - ozy

Nov. 6 (Bloomberg) -- John S. Reed, who helped engineer the merger that created Citigroup Inc., apologized for his role in building a company that has taken $45 billion in direct U.S. aid and said banks that big should be divided into separate parts.

“I’m sorry,” Reed, 70, said in an interview yesterday. “These are people I love and care about. You could imagine emotionally it’s not easy to see what’s happened.”

Citigroup was formed in 1998 when Citicorp, a commercial bank, combined with Sanford I. Weill’s Travelers Group Inc., which owned the investment firm Salomon Smith Barney Holdings Inc. The New York-based company lost $27.7 billion in 2008 and took $118 billion in writedowns. Now 34 percent-owned by the Treasury Department, Citigroup sought help in the wake of a credit freeze that claimed three of Wall Street’s biggest firms and led to the deepest recession in 70 years.

.....

Lawmakers were wrong to repeal the Depression-era Glass- Steagall Act in 1999, Reed said. At the time, he supported overturn of the law, which required the separation of institutions that engaged in traditional customer banking services from those involved in capital markets.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=a.z4KpD77s80&pos=6



Let's see... subtracting 1998, the year Citigroup was formed, from 1999, the year when Glass-Steagall was repealed, then I come up with 1. For one year, the existence of Citigroup was illegal. The Gramm Leach Bliley Act, which repealed Glass-Steagall, was written as legal cover for the merger. That is an ex post facto law - expressly forbidden in our nation's Constitution. This man should be in jail. Just like everyone who had so much as a finger in the water in making this merger appear legal.
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Tansy_Gold Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-06-09 06:23 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. "Citigroup sought help in the wake of a credit freeze. . . "
This makes the whole thing reed (sic) as if something happened outside Shiti's control, some natural disaster that caught it unawares and unprotected, when it fact it was a typhoon of stupid nd irresponsible gambling on Shiti's part and that of its co-beneficiaries of G/L/B that created the "credit freeze."

now, when is Reed going to return all the money he's personally made off this? When is he going to advocate that his dear, dear friends who are still shoveling billions of taxpayer dollars into their pockets and offshore bank accounts also return their ill-gotten loot?

When will that be? Six months after the Chicago Cubs win their third World Series in a row.



Tansy Gold, White Sox fan who hates the Yankees
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tclambert Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-06-09 07:50 AM
Response to Reply #9
25. "I'm sorry. I'm so very sorry. Give back money?!? I'm not that sorry."
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Ghost Dog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-06-09 08:02 AM
Response to Reply #9
29. Is there no real mention of possible "Windfall Taxes" over there?
#
FT.com / UK / Politics & policy - Bank windfall tax threat remains
Bank windfall tax threat remains. By James Boxell. Published: October 18 2009 22:37 | Last updated: October 18 2009 22:37. Britain's banks could have to pay ...
www.ft.com/cms/s/0/ea334b58-bc1f-11de-9426-00144feab49a.html - Similar
#
FT.com / UK / Politics & policy - Windfall tax on bank bonuses ...
19 Oct 2009 ... Windfall tax on bank bonuses ruled out. By George Parker and Patrick Jenkins ... Video: Lex, bank windfall tax - Oct-19 ...
www.ft.com/cms/s/0/1db0bd8e-bcf3-11de-a7ec-00144feab49a.html - Similar
Show more results from www.ft.com
#
Two-thirds in favour of bank windfall tax | Left Foot Forward
A new ComRes poll for the Independent shows overwhelming public support for a windfall tax on the banks. But in their coverage, the Independent made no ...
www.leftfootforward.org/.../two-thirds-in-favour-of-bank-windfall-tax/ - Cached - Similar
#
A Quiet Windfall For U.S. Banks - washingtonpost.com
But corporate tax lawyers quickly realized the enormous implications of the document: Administration officials had just given American banks a windfall of ...
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/11/09/AR2008110902155.html - Similar

...

#
Bearded Socialist: Bank windfall tax
27 Oct 2009 ... TAX!!!! " Two-thirds in favour of bank windfall tax. A new ComRes poll for the Independent shows overwhelming public support for a windfall ...
beardedsocialist.blogspot.com/2009/.../bank-windfall-tax.html - Cached - Similar
#
Liberal Conspiracy » Poll: BNP support down, windfall tax support up
27 Oct 2009 ... Two-thirds in favour of bank windfall tax | Left Foot Forward. <...> sole commentary on the web is provided by Liberal Conspiracy's Chris ...
www.liberalconspiracy.org/.../poll-bnp-support-down-windfall-tax-support-up/ - Cached - Similar

...

#
News results for bank windfall tax

Windfall tax on bankers' Christmas bonuses needed, say MPs‎ - 6 days ago
Pressure on Alistair Darling to impose a windfall tax on bankers' bonuses ... Despite the government negotiating with recapitalised banks Royal Bank of ...
guardian.co.uk - 4 related articles »
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Demeter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-06-09 08:48 AM
Response to Reply #29
37. It's Never Been Raised in Public Discussion or Polite Conversation
but we are neither. Feel free!
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tclambert Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-06-09 04:34 PM
Response to Reply #29
58. The oil companies said windfall profit taxes discouraged spending on infrastructure like refineries.
Except when they made record profits without such taxes during the Bush years, they still didn't build new refineries. Funny about that.
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ozymandius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-06-09 06:24 AM
Response to Original message
10. Banks Thwarting Feinberg Pay Model by Changing Bonus Formulas
Nov. 6 (Bloomberg) -- Global leaders and regulators trying to rein in banker pay are proposing everything from clamping down on guaranteed bonuses to recouping compensation from prior years if losses mount. Largely unaddressed is the topic that stirs the most public ire: How much money is too much?

Corporate governance and compensation experts say new rules will mostly help eliminate plans like those that tied bonuses to the number of subprime mortgage bonds created, for example, or rewarded trades that later turned sour. The guidelines endorsed by U.S. President Barack Obama and the rest of the Group of 20 nations aim to discourage excessive risk taking by employees in the financial industry.

Mark Poerio, a lawyer who tracks compensation issues at Paul, Hastings, Janofsky & Walker in Washington, says proposed rules will better link rewards with behavior that creates long- term success and stability. The restrictions won’t cut pay overall, says Poerio, who advises financial companies. “I would be shocked to see reductions,” he says.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601109&sid=aqhohvfXkB_w&pos=10



The last paragraph is so full of shit and hubris.

The debate over banker pay is pushing companies in the right direction, says Robert Profusek, a partner at law firm Jones Day in New York. Profusek, who advises on compensation issues, says capping pay is the wrong approach. The government- mandated cuts at Bank of America and Citigroup, meant to counter public outrage over the cost of the bank bailouts, may prompt talented bankers to leave, Profusek says. “We will be cutting off the taxpayers’ noses to spite their faces,” he says.

Who says the bankers are working for the taxpayers? And of what talent does this man speak? Talented economic demolition? Let the "talented" bankers leave. I suggest they find work scratching a living out of caves like so many of the people their "talent" has affected.
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Demeter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-06-09 06:38 AM
Response to Original message
12. 'Octopussy' charged as insider-trading net widens
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/us-charges-14-with-insider-trading-2009-11-05?siteid=yahoomy

IT'S HORRIBLE WHEN FINANCIAL TYPES TRY TO BE CUTE AND CREATIVE WITH THE HEADLINE


A crackdown on alleged insider trading widened Thursday as five players in the $1.5 trillion hedge-fund industry pleaded guilty to criminal charges and eight others were arrested.

Federal prosecutors filed new criminal charges against several Wall Street lawyers and traders for allegedly being part of an insider-trading network run by Zvi Goffer, a former proprietary trader at Schottenfeld Group LLC, a hedge-fund firm based in New York.
Dark Pools Good, Not Bad, For Retail Investors

New technology for stock exchanges is making it better, not worse, for retail investors, Larry Tabb of Tabb Group says.

Goffer, who also worked at Galleon Group and started a trading firm called Incremental Capital last year, was known as "the Octopussy" within the insider-trading ring because of his reputation for having so many sources of inside information, according to the Securities and Exchange Commission.

The other defendants include Arthur Cutillo, an attorney at law firm Ropes & Gray LLP; New York attorney Jason Goldfarb; Craig Drimal, who worked in Galleon's offices but wasn't an employee; Emanuel Goffer, who worked at trading firm Spectrum Trading LLC and is associated with Incremental Capital; David Plate, a former Schottenfeld employee who's associated with Incremental; and Michael Kimelman, another Incremental associate.

Ali Hariri, a vice president of Atheros Communications Inc. /quotes/comstock/15*!athr/quotes/nls/athr (ATHR 26.75, +0.93, +3.60%) was also charged with giving inside information to an unidentified hedge-fund manager in California.

Goffer, Cutillo, Goldfarb, Drimal, Emanuel Goffer, Plate, Kimelman and Hariri were arrested. All except Hariri are expected to appear in Manhattan federal court on Thursday, according to a statement from the U.S. Attorney for the Southern District of New York.

Deep Shah, a former employee at Moody's Investors Service /quotes/comstock/13*!mco/quotes/nls/mco (MCO 23.82, +0.43, +1.84%) , was also charged with insider trading. He remains at large, the U.S. Attorney for the Southern District of New York added.

The developments follow last month's federal criminal charges against Raj Rajaratnam, the billionaire founder of Galleon Group. Rajaratnam, who has denied any wrongdoing, was one of six people charged last month. A spokesman for Galleon declined to comment Thursday. See story on how case is rippling through the hedge-fund industry.

Cloak and dagger

Goffer operated an insider-trading network to gather private information about pending acquisitions of companies including 3Com Corp., Avaya Inc., Axcan Pharma, Hilton Hotels and Kronos Worldwide Inc., federal prosecutors allege.

He allegedly traded on the inside information, passing it along to others so they could trade. Prosecutors also claim Goffer likely paid sources for the information and gave them prepaid cell phones to try to avoid getting caught.

At one point, Goffer destroyed one of the cell phones by first removing the SIM card and biting into it. He then broke the phone itself in two, throwing away one part and telling his source to get rid of the other piece, the SEC alleged.
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Demeter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-06-09 06:40 AM
Response to Reply #12
13. YOU CAN ADD THIS TO YOUR LIST, OZY
Guilty (CONTINUED FROM ABOVE)

Five hedge-fund industry figures who previously were charged with insider trading pleaded guilty to the crimes, the U.S. Attorney for the Southern District of New York also said Thursday.

The individuals are hedge-fund consultant Roomy Khan; Ali Far, founder of hedge-fund firm Spherix Capital; Richard Choo-Beng Lee, former president of Spherix; Gautham Shankar, a former proprietary trader at Schottenfeld Group; and Steven Fortuna, co-founder and principal of hedge-fund firm S2 Capital Management, which is based in Boston.

"If criminal activity is your business model, then criminal activity has to stop," said Preet Bharara, U.S. attorney for the southern district of New York, during a press conference.

In addition, the SEC filed civil charges related to insider trading against Schottenfeld Group, S2 Capital and Far & Lee, LLC, a California trading entity.
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ozymandius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-06-09 06:45 AM
Response to Reply #13
15. Thank you.
Already added to the code sheet. :hi:
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tclambert Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-06-09 07:56 AM
Response to Reply #13
28. "It was a dark and stormy night . . ."
but off in one corner of the sky, a faint glimmer of--what could it be?--Justice twinkled just bright enough to give us hope amidst the inky murk of Injustice.
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Demeter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-06-09 08:47 AM
Response to Reply #28
36. Just Big Fish Eating the Minnows
Justice is taking down the big ones
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TheWatcher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-06-09 07:51 AM
Response to Reply #12
26. Wake me when Goofy and Helo Ben are in Chains.
Edited on Fri Nov-06-09 07:54 AM by TheWatcher
"A crackdown on alleged insider trading widened Thursday as five players in the $1.5 trillion hedge-fund industry pleaded guilty to criminal charges and eight others were arrested."

Translation: More Sacrificial Lambs, Fall guys, and Patsy's to plaster on the Telescreens to make the Sheep think there is a functioning System.

(Note: Translation Provided by Morpheus Matrix Decoder 2.0(tm))

These assholes should start their own Sick Game Show:

"Who Wants To Be A Madoff?"

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ozymandius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-06-09 06:43 AM
Response to Original message
14. Goldman, Fed, Citi Getting Preferential Allotments of H1N1 Vaccine
From Naked Capitalism:

It should come as no surprise that those at the top of the food chain get preferential treatment on all levels. But this still stinks to high heaven. Employees of the Goldman, the Fed, Citigroup, and other banks are getting H1N1 vaccine allotments out of proportion to what can be justified from a public health standpoint. In particular, Goldman has gotten more than Lenox HIll hospital, which needs it not just for the sick but more important, for workers (not only does the public need to keep front-line health care workers in as good shape as possible, but if they get the infection, they become disease vectors fast, given the number of people they see).

Then again, banks have become parasitic, so why should we expect anything different? And although Business Week broke the story, it did it press release style:
To the list of hundreds of schools, hospitals, and community health centers that have received limited allocations of the H1N1 swine flu vaccine, you can now add some of New York’s largest employers. In the past week or so 13 companies, including Citigroup (C) and Goldman Sachs (GS), have begun receiving small quantities of the vaccine, according to city health authorities.

Citigroup has been supplied with 1,200 units and Goldman with 200, says Jessica Scaperotti, press secretary for the Department of Health & Mental Hygiene. The agency has so far approved orders by 29 employers—including 16 that have yet to receive any vaccine—after they were cleared by the U.S. Centers for Disease Control & Prevention (CDC). Big employers that have received or are scheduled to receive vaccine so far include Time Warner (TWX), JPMorgan Chase (JPM), Memorial Sloan-Kettering, New York Presbyterian Healthcare System, and New York University.

Health-care workers at those employers are bound by the CDC to distribute the vaccine only to populations deemed to be at high risk of developing serious complications from swine flu: pregnant women, children and young people aged 6 months to 24 years, people who live with or provide care for infants under 6 months (who cannot be vaccinated), people aged 24 to 64 with medical conditions that put them at higher risk for flu-related complications, and health-care workers and emergency medical personnel.
Yves here. Welcome to the class system in action. If you don’t work for a big, influential company, go to the back of the queue.



Go read the whole thing. Did I mention how much I hate these people - our banking overlords?
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Demeter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-06-09 07:52 AM
Response to Reply #14
27. Sounds Like a Good Class Action Lawsuit
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tclambert Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-06-09 04:42 PM
Response to Reply #14
59. You kind of expect them to steal our money. But now they're stealing our medicine?
Makes me glad I don't have any daughters.
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truedelphi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-07-09 02:45 AM
Response to Reply #14
64. In Europe, especially Germany, the military and
Certain Parliament officials get special flu vaccines, while the average bloke there gets a sub standard version.

Government officials claim that there is no difference, yet tose allowed to get the gold standard shot are still loathe to take the "regular" shot instead.
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ozymandius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-06-09 06:47 AM
Response to Original message
16. Have a nice day, everyone.
:donut: :donut: :donut:

Time for my child and me to get ready for school.

:hi:
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Karenina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-06-09 06:56 AM
Response to Reply #16
17. TGIF Ozy!
:hi::loveya::hi:
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Festivito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-06-09 07:06 AM
Response to Original message
18. Debt: 11/04/2009 11,978,953,722,825.90 (UP 362,110,344.95) (Wed)
(Mixed, small. Good day to all.)

= Held by the Public + Intragovernmental(FICA)
= 7,579,989,372,018.96 + 4,398,964,350,806.94
DOWN 84,777,046.07 + UP 446,887,391.02

Source: Debt to the penny:
http://www.treasurydirect.gov/NP/BPDLogin?application=np

THINKING IN BILLIONS: Think 3 or 4 dollars per billion in a 308-Million person America.
If every American, man, woman and child puts in $3.25 each THAT'S 1B$.
A family of three: Mom, Dad, Child: $9.74, ABOUT TEN BUCKS for a 1B$ federal program.
I hope that is clear. However, I'd suggest using $3 per 1B$ to underestimate it.
Use $4 per 1B$ to overestimate the cost when thinking: Is the federal program worth it?
Aid to Dependant Children: 2B$/yr =$8/yr(a movie a year) Family of 3: $24/yr(an hour of bowling)

PERSONALIZED DEBT:
Every 10 seconds we net gain another American, so at the end of the workday of the report, there should be 307,890,141 people in America.
http://www.census.gov/population/www/popclockus.html ON 09/27/2009 07:13 -> 307,558,299
Currently, each of these Americans owe $38,906.58.
A family of three owes $116,719.75. (And that is IN ADDITION to their mortgage.)

ANALYSIS:
There were 23 reports in the last 30 to 33 days.
The average for the last 23 reports is 2,652,392,228.52.
The average for the last 30 days would be 2,033,500,708.53.
The average for the last 33 days would be 1,848,637,007.75.
There were 252 reports in 365 days of FY2007 averaging 1.99B$ per report, 1.37B$/day.
There were 253 reports in 366 days of FY2008 averaging 4.02B$ per report, 2.78B$/day.
There were 75 reports in 112 days of GWB's part of FY2009 averaging 8.03B$ per report, 5.38B$/day.
There were 174 reports in 253 days of Obama's part of FY2009 averaging 7.33B$ per report, 5.07B$/day so far.
There were 249 reports in 365 days of FY2009 averaging 7.57B$ per report, 5.16B$/day.
There were 25 reports in 35 days of FY2010 averaging 2.76B$ per report, 1.97B$/day.
Above line should be okay

PROJECTION:
There are 1,173 days remaining in this Obama 1st term.
By that time the debt could be between 13.6 and 18.0T$.
It could be higher. It could be lower.

HISTORICAL:
President's term begins and ends on Jan 20.
(Guess who might want to hide the Reagan Bush years. Jan 20 data is missing before 1993.)
01/20/1993 _4,188,092,107,183.60 WJC Inaugural
01/22/2001 _5,728,195,796,181.57 WJC (UP 1,540,103,688,997.97)
01/20/2009 10,626,877,048,913.08 GWB (UP 4,898,681,252,731.43)
11/04/2009 11,978,953,722,825.90 BHO (UP 1,352,076,673,912.82 so far since Obama took office.)

FISCAL YEAR DEBT CHANGE, Sep 30 prior year to Sep 30 named year:
(One "* " for each 40B$ reached)
FY1994 +0,281,261,026,873.94 ------------* * * * * * * WJC
FY1995 +0,281,232,990,696.07 ------------* * * * * * * WJC
FY1996 +0,250,828,038,426.34 ------------* * * * * * WJC
FY1997 +0,188,335,072,261.61 ------------* * * * WJC
FY1998 +0,113,046,997,500.28 ------------* * WJC
FY1999 +0,130,077,892,735.81 ------------* * * WJC
FY2000 +0,017,907,308,253.43 ------------WJC
FY2001 +0,133,285,202,313.20 ------------* * * C&B
01-WJC +0,053,598,528,417.78 ------------* WJC 31% of FY, 40% of FY-Debt
01-GWB +0,079,686,673,895.42 ------------* GWB 69% of FY, 60% of FY-Debt
FY2002 +0,420,772,553,397.10 ------------* * * * * * * * * * GWB
FY2003 +0,554,995,097,146.46 ------------* * * * * * * * * * * * * GWB
FY2004 +0,595,821,633,586.70 ------------* * * * * * * * * * * * * * GWB
FY2005 +0,553,656,965,393.18 ------------* * * * * * * * * * * * * GWB
FY2006 +0,574,264,237,491.73 ------------* * * * * * * * * * * * * * GWB
FY2007 +0,500,679,473,047.25 ------------* * * * * * * * * * * * GWB
FY2008 +1,017,071,524,649.92 ------------* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * GWB
FY2009 +1,885,104,106,599.30 ------------* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * B&O
09GWB +0,602,152,152,000.60 ------------* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * GWB 31% of FY, 32% of FY-Debt
09-BHO +1,282,951,954,598.70 ------------* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * BHO 69% of FY, 68% of FY-Debt
FY2010 +0,069,124,719,314.20 ------------* BHO
Endof10 +0,720,872,072,848.10 ------------* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Linear Projection

LAST FIFTEEN REPORTS OF ADDITIONS TO PUBLIC DEBT(NOT FICA):
10/15/2009 +040,455,301,335.22 ------------**********
10/16/2009 -000,034,671,440.79 ----
10/19/2009 +000,169,101,777.19 ------------******** Mon
10/20/2009 +000,084,506,561.85 ------------*******
10/21/2009 +000,260,615,642.06 ------------********
10/22/2009 -054,881,746,021.15 -
10/23/2009 -000,105,634,856.79 ---
10/26/2009 -000,680,933,964.04 --- Mon
10/27/2009 +000,626,474,250.98 ------------********
10/28/2009 +000,798,039,832.64 ------------********
10/29/2009 -019,769,093,363.09 -
10/30/2009 +031,206,306,633.43 ------------**********
11/02/2009 +091,997,621,963.98 ------------********** Mon
11/03/2009 +000,189,596,548.58 ------------********
11/04/2009 -000,084,777,046.07 ----

90,230,707,854.00 Total of 15 above reports.

Heavy borrowing seems to start after 09/18/2008 while Bush was in power JUST BEFORE fiscal year end.
Bush admin borrowed $962,245,245,654.01 in those last 124 days in office crossing two fiscal years.
$360,093,093,653.42 in last 12 days of FY2008, and $602,152,152,000.59 in subsequent 112 days before leaving office.

For a prettier and more explanatory view of our nation's debt:
http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock

(Debt to the penny keeps changing. Stuff is missing. Best to keep our own history.) LAST REPORT:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=4133249&mesg_id=4133261
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Festivito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-07-09 08:17 AM
Response to Reply #18
65. Debt: 11/05/2009 11,990,561,444,829.48 (UP 11,607,722,003.58) (Thu)
(Up some. Good day to all.)

= Held by the Public + Intragovernmental(FICA)
= 7,588,138,019,547.78 + 4,402,423,425,281.70
UP 8,148,647,528.82 + UP 3,459,074,474.76

Source: Debt to the penny:
http://www.treasurydirect.gov/NP/BPDLogin?application=np

THINKING IN BILLIONS: Think 3 or 4 dollars per billion in a 308-Million person America.
If every American, man, woman and child puts in $3.25 each THAT'S 1B$.
A family of three: Mom, Dad, Child: $9.74, ABOUT TEN BUCKS for a 1B$ federal program.
I hope that is clear. However, I'd suggest using $3 per 1B$ to underestimate it.
Use $4 per 1B$ to overestimate the cost when thinking: Is the federal program worth it?
Aid to Dependant Children: 2B$/yr =$8/yr(a movie a year) Family of 3: $24/yr(an hour of bowling)

PERSONALIZED DEBT:
Every 10 seconds we net gain another American, so at the end of the workday of the report, there should be 307,898,781 people in America.
http://www.census.gov/population/www/popclockus.html ON 09/27/2009 07:13 -> 307,558,299
Currently, each of these Americans owe $38,943.19.
A family of three owes $116,829.58. (And that is IN ADDITION to their mortgage.)

ANALYSIS:
There were 23 reports in the last 30 to 31 days.
The average for the last 23 reports is 3,073,144,482.17.
The average for the last 30 days would be 2,356,077,436.33.
The average for the last 31 days would be 2,280,074,938.38.
There were 252 reports in 365 days of FY2007 averaging 1.99B$ per report, 1.37B$/day.
There were 253 reports in 366 days of FY2008 averaging 4.02B$ per report, 2.78B$/day.
There were 75 reports in 112 days of GWB's part of FY2009 averaging 8.03B$ per report, 5.38B$/day.
There were 174 reports in 253 days of Obama's part of FY2009 averaging 7.33B$ per report, 5.07B$/day so far.
There were 249 reports in 365 days of FY2009 averaging 7.57B$ per report, 5.16B$/day.
There were 26 reports in 36 days of FY2010 averaging 3.11B$ per report, 2.24B$/day.
Above line should be okay

PROJECTION:
There are 1,172 days remaining in this Obama 1st term.
By that time the debt could be between 13.6 and 18.0T$.
It could be higher. It could be lower.

HISTORICAL:
President's term begins and ends on Jan 20.
(Guess who might want to hide the Reagan Bush years. Jan 20 data is missing before 1993.)
01/20/1993 _4,188,092,107,183.60 WJC Inaugural
01/22/2001 _5,728,195,796,181.57 WJC (UP 1,540,103,688,997.97)
01/20/2009 10,626,877,048,913.08 GWB (UP 4,898,681,252,731.43)
11/05/2009 11,990,561,444,829.48 BHO (UP 1,363,684,395,916.40 so far since Obama took office.)

FISCAL YEAR DEBT CHANGE, Sep 30 prior year to Sep 30 named year:
(One "* " for each 40B$ reached)
FY1994 +0,281,261,026,873.94 ------------* * * * * * * WJC
FY1995 +0,281,232,990,696.07 ------------* * * * * * * WJC
FY1996 +0,250,828,038,426.34 ------------* * * * * * WJC
FY1997 +0,188,335,072,261.61 ------------* * * * WJC
FY1998 +0,113,046,997,500.28 ------------* * WJC
FY1999 +0,130,077,892,735.81 ------------* * * WJC
FY2000 +0,017,907,308,253.43 ------------WJC
FY2001 +0,133,285,202,313.20 ------------* * * C&B
01-WJC +0,053,598,528,417.78 ------------* WJC 31% of FY, 40% of FY-Debt
01-GWB +0,079,686,673,895.42 ------------* GWB 69% of FY, 60% of FY-Debt
FY2002 +0,420,772,553,397.10 ------------* * * * * * * * * * GWB
FY2003 +0,554,995,097,146.46 ------------* * * * * * * * * * * * * GWB
FY2004 +0,595,821,633,586.70 ------------* * * * * * * * * * * * * * GWB
FY2005 +0,553,656,965,393.18 ------------* * * * * * * * * * * * * GWB
FY2006 +0,574,264,237,491.73 ------------* * * * * * * * * * * * * * GWB
FY2007 +0,500,679,473,047.25 ------------* * * * * * * * * * * * GWB
FY2008 +1,017,071,524,649.92 ------------* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * GWB
FY2009 +1,885,104,106,599.30 ------------* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * B&O
09GWB +0,602,152,152,000.60 ------------* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * GWB 31% of FY, 32% of FY-Debt
09-BHO +1,282,951,954,598.70 ------------* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * BHO 69% of FY, 68% of FY-Debt
FY2010 +0,080,732,441,317.70 ------------* * BHO
Endof10 +0,818,537,252,248.92 ------------* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Linear Projection

LAST FIFTEEN REPORTS OF ADDITIONS TO PUBLIC DEBT(NOT FICA):
10/16/2009 -000,034,671,440.79 ----
10/19/2009 +000,169,101,777.19 ------------******** Mon
10/20/2009 +000,084,506,561.85 ------------*******
10/21/2009 +000,260,615,642.06 ------------********
10/22/2009 -054,881,746,021.15 -
10/23/2009 -000,105,634,856.79 ---
10/26/2009 -000,680,933,964.04 --- Mon
10/27/2009 +000,626,474,250.98 ------------********
10/28/2009 +000,798,039,832.64 ------------********
10/29/2009 -019,769,093,363.09 -
10/30/2009 +031,206,306,633.43 ------------**********
11/02/2009 +091,997,621,963.98 ------------********** Mon
11/03/2009 +000,189,596,548.58 ------------********
11/04/2009 -000,084,777,046.07 ----
11/05/2009 +008,148,647,528.82 ------------*********

57,924,054,047.60 Total of 15 above reports.

Heavy borrowing seems to start after 09/18/2008 while Bush was in power JUST BEFORE fiscal year end.
Bush admin borrowed $962,245,245,654.01 in those last 124 days in office crossing two fiscal years.
$360,093,093,653.42 in last 12 days of FY2008, and $602,152,152,000.59 in subsequent 112 days before leaving office.

For a prettier and more explanatory view of our nation's debt:
http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock

(Debt to the penny keeps changing. Stuff is missing. Best to keep our own history.) LAST REPORT:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=4135089&mesg_id=4135150
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Festivito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-07-09 08:27 AM
Response to Reply #18
66. Debt: 11/05/2009 11,990,561,444,829.48 (UP 11,607,722,003.58) (Thu) (Population update)
(Up some. Good day to all.)

= Held by the Public + Intragovernmental(FICA)
= 7,588,138,019,547.78 + 4,402,423,425,281.70
UP 8,148,647,528.82 + UP 3,459,074,474.76

Source: Debt to the penny:
http://www.treasurydirect.gov/NP/BPDLogin?application=np

THINKING IN BILLIONS: Think 3 or 4 dollars per billion in a 308-Million person America.
If every American, man, woman and child puts in $3.25 each THAT'S 1B$.
A family of three: Mom, Dad, Child: $9.74, ABOUT TEN BUCKS for a 1B$ federal program.
I hope that is clear. However, I'd suggest using $3 per 1B$ to underestimate it.
Use $4 per 1B$ to overestimate the cost when thinking: Is the federal program worth it?
Aid to Dependant Children: 2B$/yr =$8/yr(a movie a year) Family of 3: $24/yr(an hour of bowling)

PERSONALIZED DEBT:
Every 10 seconds we net gain another American, so at the end of the workday of the report, there should be 307,865,118 people in America.
http://www.census.gov/population/www/popclockus.html ON 11/07/2009 08:19 -> 307,879,272
Currently, each of these Americans owe $38,947.45.
A family of three owes $116,842.35. (And that is IN ADDITION to their mortgage.)

ANALYSIS:
There were 23 reports in the last 30 to 31 days.
The average for the last 23 reports is 3,073,144,482.17.
The average for the last 30 days would be 2,356,077,436.33.
The average for the last 31 days would be 2,280,074,938.38.
There were 252 reports in 365 days of FY2007 averaging 1.99B$ per report, 1.37B$/day.
There were 253 reports in 366 days of FY2008 averaging 4.02B$ per report, 2.78B$/day.
There were 75 reports in 112 days of GWB's part of FY2009 averaging 8.03B$ per report, 5.38B$/day.
There were 174 reports in 253 days of Obama's part of FY2009 averaging 7.33B$ per report, 5.07B$/day so far.
There were 249 reports in 365 days of FY2009 averaging 7.57B$ per report, 5.16B$/day.
There were 26 reports in 36 days of FY2010 averaging 3.11B$ per report, 2.24B$/day.
Above line should be okay

PROJECTION:
There are 1,172 days remaining in this Obama 1st term.
By that time the debt could be between 13.6 and 18.0T$.
It could be higher. It could be lower.

HISTORICAL:
President's term begins and ends on Jan 20.
(Guess who might want to hide the Reagan Bush years. Jan 20 data is missing before 1993.)
01/20/1993 _4,188,092,107,183.60 WJC Inaugural
01/22/2001 _5,728,195,796,181.57 WJC (UP 1,540,103,688,997.97)
01/20/2009 10,626,877,048,913.08 GWB (UP 4,898,681,252,731.43)
11/05/2009 11,990,561,444,829.48 BHO (UP 1,363,684,395,916.40 so far since Obama took office.)

FISCAL YEAR DEBT CHANGE, Sep 30 prior year to Sep 30 named year:
(One "* " for each 40B$ reached)
FY1994 +0,281,261,026,873.94 ------------* * * * * * * WJC
FY1995 +0,281,232,990,696.07 ------------* * * * * * * WJC
FY1996 +0,250,828,038,426.34 ------------* * * * * * WJC
FY1997 +0,188,335,072,261.61 ------------* * * * WJC
FY1998 +0,113,046,997,500.28 ------------* * WJC
FY1999 +0,130,077,892,735.81 ------------* * * WJC
FY2000 +0,017,907,308,253.43 ------------WJC
FY2001 +0,133,285,202,313.20 ------------* * * C&B
01-WJC +0,053,598,528,417.78 ------------* WJC 31% of FY, 40% of FY-Debt
01-GWB +0,079,686,673,895.42 ------------* GWB 69% of FY, 60% of FY-Debt
FY2002 +0,420,772,553,397.10 ------------* * * * * * * * * * GWB
FY2003 +0,554,995,097,146.46 ------------* * * * * * * * * * * * * GWB
FY2004 +0,595,821,633,586.70 ------------* * * * * * * * * * * * * * GWB
FY2005 +0,553,656,965,393.18 ------------* * * * * * * * * * * * * GWB
FY2006 +0,574,264,237,491.73 ------------* * * * * * * * * * * * * * GWB
FY2007 +0,500,679,473,047.25 ------------* * * * * * * * * * * * GWB
FY2008 +1,017,071,524,649.92 ------------* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * GWB
FY2009 +1,885,104,106,599.30 ------------* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * B&O
09GWB +0,602,152,152,000.60 ------------* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * GWB 31% of FY, 32% of FY-Debt
09-BHO +1,282,951,954,598.70 ------------* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * BHO 69% of FY, 68% of FY-Debt
FY2010 +0,080,732,441,317.70 ------------* * BHO
Endof10 +0,818,537,252,248.92 ------------* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Linear Projection

LAST FIFTEEN REPORTS OF ADDITIONS TO PUBLIC DEBT(NOT FICA):
10/16/2009 -000,034,671,440.79 ----
10/19/2009 +000,169,101,777.19 ------------******** Mon
10/20/2009 +000,084,506,561.85 ------------*******
10/21/2009 +000,260,615,642.06 ------------********
10/22/2009 -054,881,746,021.15 -
10/23/2009 -000,105,634,856.79 ---
10/26/2009 -000,680,933,964.04 --- Mon
10/27/2009 +000,626,474,250.98 ------------********
10/28/2009 +000,798,039,832.64 ------------********
10/29/2009 -019,769,093,363.09 -
10/30/2009 +031,206,306,633.43 ------------**********
11/02/2009 +091,997,621,963.98 ------------********** Mon
11/03/2009 +000,189,596,548.58 ------------********
11/04/2009 -000,084,777,046.07 ----
11/05/2009 +008,148,647,528.82 ------------*********

57,924,054,047.60 Total of 15 above reports.

Heavy borrowing seems to start after 09/18/2008 while Bush was in power JUST BEFORE fiscal year end.
Bush admin borrowed $962,245,245,654.01 in those last 124 days in office crossing two fiscal years.
$360,093,093,653.42 in last 12 days of FY2008, and $602,152,152,000.59 in subsequent 112 days before leaving office.

For a prettier and more explanatory view of our nation's debt:
http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock

(Debt to the penny keeps changing. Stuff is missing. Best to keep our own history.) LAST REPORT:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=4135089&mesg_id=4135150
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UpInArms Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-06-09 07:30 AM
Response to Original message
19. dollar watch


http://quotes.ino.com/chart/?acs=NYBOT_DX&v=i

Last trade 75.722 Change -0.019 (-0.02%)

Risk Appetite, the Dollar and the Dow Await a Fundamental Catalyst to Establish the Next Principal Trend

http://www.dailyfx.com/forex/fundamental/article/carry_trade_basket/2009-11-06-0316-Risk_Appetite__the_Dollar_and.html

Is it a coincidence that the bullish rally behind the capital markets has stalled and threatened a retracement just as the world’s central banks start to confirm their intentions to withdrawal the emergency aid initially put into place to stem a financial and economic collapse? While it is too early to tell whether the removal of speculators’ government safety net will spark profit taking and a meaningful reversal from those proxies that have risen so consistently through most of the year; we are seeing market participant growing more critical of the divergence between the fundamentals and the months of speculative exuberance. However, despite this backdrop, it is imperative to remember that risk appetite is its own catalyst; and optimism based solely on distant economic forecasts and the promise of capital returns has proven itself immune (or temporarily blinded) in the past. It is clear from the popular proxies for underlying sentiment that we are at another critical point in the seven-month bull wave where the scales can be tipped either way. The Dow Jones Industrial Average (our proxy for the speculator-friendly equity market) finally found direction in its chop this week to push back above 10,000. The more meaningful milestone would be surpassing the 13-month, range high of 10,120. For the US Dollar, the failure to surmount resistance derived from the five month falling trend channel (on the trade-weighted index) similarly speaks to a narrow miss of a significant reversal in risk appetite. A look at volatility indicators suggests market participants believe we have avoided a reversal. The CBOE VIX and DailyFX Currency Volatility Index have both retraced sharply from four-month highs.

Despite the pressure building behind market congestion and the considerable activity in volatility indexes (an indirect gauge of insurance premiums for dramatic price action), the fundamentals have changed relatively little over the past weeks and months. The outlook for economic activity and rates of return are still as tepid as before. What has changed is speculation. Economic data and official projections offer a view on where growth, interest rates and lending may be in the future; but the outlook for the markets is always filtered through investors’ eyes. Until recently, the rough outlook for a return to global expansion and the promise that bloated stores of sidelined capital would have to find its way into the speculative market was all traders needed to believe they would be able to buy low and sell high. However, long-term funds have not been a major participant in this year’s market recovery (at least not in comparison to their presence before the crisis started to play out). These pools of capital look to collect yields, dividends and other regular income; and in turn, they are relatively tolerant of moderate capital losses. Yet, benchmark market rates (like the 3 month Libor) are still hovering near record lows and buying in now would be expensive indeed considering there is no yield income. For the traders already in the market and those on the sidelines, the seemingly coordinated effort by central banks to withdrawal financial support means policy officials are more optimistic on stability and growth but it also means there is less of a backstop and cheap cash. These are still early stages in the exit plan though. Gauging the balance of risk and return though, the RBA (the market’s high-yield leader) decided to tone down its own pace of rate hikes. No one can fully avoid the strained recovery of the world’s largest economies.

...more...


Currency Markets to Look Past European Economic Data, Focus on US Jobs Report

http://www.dailyfx.com/forex/fundamental/daily_briefing/session_briefing/euro_open/2009-11-06-0602-Currency_Markets_to_Look_Past.html

Currency markets are likely to look past a relatively tame European economic calendar to focus on the US Nonfarm Payrolls data due late into the session, with expectations calling for the world’s largest consumer market to have lost 175k jobs in October, the least in 14 months.

Key Overnight Developments

• RBA Upgrades GDP, Inflation Forecast But Traders Reduce Rate Hike Bets
• Euro Consolidates, British Pound Advances in Overnight Trading

Critical Levels



The Euro consolidated in a narrow 20-pip range above 1.4860 while the British Pound managed to push a bit higher, adding 0.2% against the US Dollar.



The Quarterly Monetary Policy Statement from the Reserve Bank of Australia revealed that policymakers upgraded their economic growth and inflation forecasts: Glenn Stevens and company now see GDP expanding 1.75% in 2009 and 3.25% in 2010 versus the previously expected 0.5% and 2.25%, respectively. The bank kept its 2009 core inflation forecast at 3.25% but lifted its 2010 prediction to 2.25% from 2%, with next year’s slowdown linked to a stronger Australian Dollar and lackluster wage growth. The RBA expects employment to remain sluggish until the mid-2010 but maintained that business investment and export growth will be strong, adding that further gradual rate increases are likely over time. Still, traders have sharply reduced their bets on aggressive tightening from the Australian monetary authority, with a Credit Suisse gauge of priced-in 1-year rate hike expectations dropping 27 basis points after the RBA hinted a shift to a neutral policy stance earlier this week, the largest one-day decline in a year.

...more...

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UpInArms Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-06-09 07:39 AM
Response to Original message
20. SEC official worried about "naked access"
http://www.reuters.com/article/businessNews/idUSTRE5A44K720091105?feedType=RSS&feedName=businessNews

NEW YORK (Reuters) - A top U.S. securities regulator said on Thursday that she was concerned about naked access, where brokers give high-frequency traders unfiltered access to public markets.

"I am worried that the proper controls are not being used effectively to make sure that problems aren't created by sponsored (naked) access," Securities and Exchange Commission Commissioner Elisse Walter told Reuters.

Walter is one of five commissioners who make decisions on federal securities rules.

She is the latest policymaker to weigh in on the practice, where traders gain unfettered access to exchanges by renting a brokerage's license. This allows traders to shave precious milliseconds from the time it takes to access markets.

...more...
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Ghost Dog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-06-09 08:31 AM
Response to Reply #20
33. "renting a brokerage's license"... Hmmm.
:think: Now, what one couldn't do while "renting" a banking licence for a few hours... or, well, the possibilities are simply limitless (I guess that's the point).
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UpInArms Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-06-09 07:43 AM
Response to Original message
21. Sparring over evidence at Wall Streeters trial
http://www.reuters.com/article/businessNews/idUSTRE5A44FB20091106?feedType=RSS&feedName=businessNews&sp=true

NEW YORK (Reuters) - In closing arguments in the trial of the first high-profile Wall Streeters on fraud charges stemming from the financial crisis, a U.S. prosecutor said two hedge fund managers told "black and white lies," but a defense lawyer attacked the government for "misleading" the jury.

U.S. prosecutor Ilene Jaroslaw said on Thursday former Bear Stearns hedge fund managers Ralph Cioffi and Matthew Tannin lied to investors in the early months of 2007 about the health of their funds even though they were seeing some of the worst market conditions ever.

"This case is not about hedge fund strategy or what happened in the market in 2007," Jaroslaw told a Brooklyn, New York, federal court jury.

"What it is about, is the two defendants lied to their investors. It's not about the future ... but a case of black and white lies," she told the jury, which is expected to begin deliberations on Monday, nearly a month after the trial began on October 13.

Cioffi, 53 and Tannin, 48, have denied charges of securities fraud, wire fraud and conspiracy in a June 2008 indictment that made them the first high-profile Wall Streeters to be criminally charged in a case stemming from subprime mortgage-backed securities that fueled the market meltdown.

<snip>

During the trial, prosecutors called about 20 witnesses and presented about 150 documentary exhibits to the jury. Prosecutors said the two funds, the High Grade Fund and the Enhanced Leveraged Fund, had $1.6 billion leveraged to $20 billion of assets, primarily collateralized debt obligations, securities backed by a pool of debt such as mortgages.

<snip>

Prosecutors contend that at least by March 2007 -- more than 18 months before the full extent of the financial crisis became clear -- Cioffi and Tannin promoted to investors two funds crammed with subprime mortgage-backed securities, while privately expressing, in their emails, fears of a market calamity. Investors lost up to $1.6 billion, according to prosecutors.

...more...
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UpInArms Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-06-09 07:44 AM
Response to Original message
22. US govt backed $4.3 trln in assets in crisis-report
http://www.reuters.com/article/wtUSInvestingNews/idCNN0543402220091106

WASHINGTON, Nov 5 (Reuters) - The U.S. government guaranteed as much as $4.3 trillion in financial assets last year, making such backstops the biggest and riskiest part of Washington's response to the financial crisis, a bailout watchdog panel said on Friday.

The Congressional Oversight Panel said in its latest monthly report that the asset guarantees from the U.S. Treasury, the Federal Reserve and the Federal Deposit Insurance Corp helped calm panic in financial markets at minimal cost to taxpayers so far.

To date, the programs have generated fees of about $17.4 billion, while only up to $2 million is expected to be paid out for a default under the FDIC's bank debt guarantee program .

The report said for program that once guaranteed a pool of $301 billion in Citigroup assets, initial actuarial estimates point towards a possible loss of $34.6 billion under a "moderate" stress scenario.

But since Citigroup must absorb the first $39.5 billion in losses from these assets, taxpayers would not be liable for any of this. A "severe" stress test scenario would result in losses of $43.9 billion, of which taxpayers would have to absorb nearly $4 billion.

The panel, charged with overseeing the U.S. Treasury's $700 billion Troubled Asset Relief Program, said that as financial markets stabilize and the scope of the guarantee programs decrease, the likelihood of major expenditures also diminishes.

...more...
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DemReadingDU Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-06-09 08:16 AM
Response to Original message
31. Robert Prechter Warns Wall Street Is Setting Investors Up for Another Hurting
Edited on Fri Nov-06-09 08:25 AM by DemReadingDU
11/6/09 Robert Prechter Warns Wall Street Is Setting Investors Up for Another Hurting
Posted Nov 06, 2009 07:30am EST

With the Dow back above 10,000 (as of Thursday's close, at least), the message from many on Wall Street is: Hurry! The recovery train is leaving the station! Don't miss out on the next phase of the bull market!

Not so fast, says Robert Prechter, president of Elliot Wave International and author of Conquer the Crash.

"Everybody who's saying ‘buy stocks' today or ‘buy real estate' is, I think, setting up people to get really hurt," says Prechter, who believes the bear market rally is reaching a major top.

"We had a great opportunity at 667 - that was the big opportunity," says Prechter, who did make a bullish call last February. "The market is up 60% . There's no way the S&P is going up 60% from here."

Prechter's advice for most investors, as described in the recently released second edition of his book, is fairly simple:

Play it Safe: Keep as much of your assets as possible in cash and cash equivalents, Prechter recommends, stressing not all money market funds and bank CDs are created equal -- or equally safe. (Prechter also advocates exposure to gold but isn't as bullish on it today as he was in 2002, as discussed here.)

Patience Is a Virtue: "Sit back, relax. Be as safe as you can in safe institutions," he says. "There's a great buying opportunity coming up around 2014, 2016."

Return OF Capital Is Key: "Be very careful," he says. "Don't lose the money you have saved in the markets that are likely to come down in 2010 a long way."

From Prechter's perspective, "there's no negative to getting safe." The worst thing that happens is the market keeps rallying and "you can't brag at cocktail parties," he says. "But at least you won't be crying because you lost half" of your assets.

watch video at link
http://finance.yahoo.com/tech-ticker/article/367381/Wall-Street-Is-Setting-Investors-Up-for-Another-Hurting-Robert-Prechter-Warns?tickers=^DJI,^GSPC,^IXIC,SPY,DIA,QQQQ,GLD&sec=topStories&pos=9&asset=&ccode=


yesterday's Prechter video
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=4133249&mesg_id=4134118




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ozone_man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-06-09 09:16 AM
Response to Reply #31
38. "around 2014, 2016."
It's going to be a long ride down for this bubble. The mother of all bubbles!
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MilesColtrane Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-06-09 11:00 AM
Response to Reply #31
43. You too can time the market and make moolah.
Just buy my book to learn how.
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Ghost Dog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-06-09 03:43 PM
Response to Reply #31
52. World’s Central Banks Signal End to Policy ‘Largesse’
Nov. 6 (Bloomberg) -- The world’s biggest central banks are starting to unwind emergency measures introduced earlier this year to stave off a second Great Depression.

The euro rose after European Central Bank President Jean- Claude Trichet yesterday said his bank will withdraw some liquidity operations, and the pound climbed after the Bank of England slowed the pace of bond purchases. A day earlier, the Federal Reserve outlined the circumstances in which it would be prepared to raise interest rates.

The moves suggest that investors and executives will soon have to do without the flood of liquidity that propped up the economy earlier this year, as concerns about new asset bubbles start to mount. The danger is that mistiming the withdrawal of support could spark swings in currencies and spoil a recovery before it has taken root.

“There are all kinds of risks,” said Jim O’Neill, chief global economist at Goldman Sachs Group Inc. in London. “We don’t know how much of the improvement in markets is due to central banks’ largesse, and neither do they. They’re pretty nervous, but they’ve got to get out of it at some stage.”

/... http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601068&sid=akFxvYlcBGZg

:eyes:
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DemReadingDU Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-06-09 08:23 AM
Response to Original message
32. AIG profitable for second straight quarter

11/6/09 AIG profitable for second straight quarter
The troubled insurer said it continues to benefit from stabilization in the housing and credit markets, but future quarters will continue to be volatile.

AIG reported its second profitable quarter in a row early Friday, as stabilization in the mortgage and credit markets helped boost results.

The troubled insurer said its net income rose to $455 million, or 68 cents per share, an improvement from a $24.5 billion loss from a year earlier. Results included a one-time net charge of $1.5 billion for restructuring and hedging.

Without the charge, AIG (AIG, Fortune 500) would have earned $1.9 billion in the quarter, or $2.85 per share. Analysts polled by Thomson Reuters, who typically exclude one-time events, forecasted earnings of $1.98 per share.

Sales for the New York-based company rose 189% to $26 billion, topping analysts' forecasts of $23 billion.

"Our results reflect continued stabilization in performance and market trends," said AIG Chief Executive Robert Benmosche in a statement. "AIG employees are working to preserve the strength of our insurance businesses in a challenging market."

In August, AIG reported that it had returned to profitability after six straight losing quarters, a stretch in which the company lost $99 billion.

Despite the encouraging numbers, AIG is still a very troubled company. The insurer has received $131.6 billion of a possible $182 billion bailout, and it still owes taxpayers $89.3 billion of that funding.

The insurer still has a sizeable portfolio of troubled assets that it is working to wind down, and it continues to sell off its assets in order to gain enough capital to repay the government.

Benmosche noted that future quarters will be volatile, as the company continues to take big write-offs for its asset sales.

http://money.cnn.com/2009/11/06/news/companies/aig/index.htm?postversion=2009110607


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Demeter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-06-09 11:34 AM
Response to Original message
46. Tonight and All Weekend!
The WEE Thread celebrates Guy Fawkes Day, in which the radical Right Wing of 16th century England got exposed and its followers beheaded or something like that. We'll have details, period music, drama and whatever else we can dredge up, including OF COURSE the fabulous modern rendition: V FOR VENDETTA! which rather turned the whole story on its ear, politically.

It should be bizarre, entertaining, diverting, and educational, and help us get through a mountain of awful economic data and analysis. So tune in tonight and throughout the weekend for Weekend Economists as we go on a vendetta for truth, justice, and the America we want and need.
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Roland99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-06-09 02:15 PM
Response to Original message
49. FYI, yours truly is find and dandy. The Orlando shooting is about a mile north of me.
crazy shit.

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Tansy_Gold Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-06-09 03:44 PM
Response to Reply #49
53. Glad to hear it!
I just got back from a routine trip through hte land of teh styupid and logged on to DU to get the news from SMW. Don't even know yet what the details are but glad to know you're safe!


There's craziness out there, everywhere. It's scary.



:hug:



Tansy Gold
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tclambert Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-06-09 04:51 PM
Response to Reply #49
60. That was Orlando? I saw a little about shooting on the TV news and assumed it was more on Fr. Hood.
Oh. Jason Rodriguez "opened fire in the offices of an Orlando architecture company that fired him 2½ years ago. One person is dead and five others were in stable condition at Orlando Regional Medical Center with gunshot wounds."

Is this the beginning of a new fad?
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Dr.Phool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-06-09 05:10 PM
Response to Reply #49
61. I'm getting sick of this shit. Time to repeal the 2nd Amendment.
Make it a little more specific. You're allowed to own hunting weapons, and that's it.

And I hunted for years, and carried a concealed weapon, illegally, for about 20 years. But, it's getting out of control. One of these days, in the not too distant future, some tea-bagger is going to prompt congressional action.
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Roland99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-06-09 05:42 PM
Response to Reply #61
62. Personally, I don't think the Founding Fathers had in mind personal use of a gun as it is today
Edited on Fri Nov-06-09 05:42 PM by Roland99
Hence the well-formed militia wording.

And did they envision an America so well-conquered and industrialized and such a world power? Highly unlikely. A well-formed militia was a necessity back then to protect the early settlers from those evil people who'd been living there for over 10,000 years before they arrived but, hey, he with the gold......



In any event, I don't see the 2nd Amendment changing anytime in the next hundred years. No way could a majority of Congress or the States be attained to repeal that.

And I could never understand how that always gets distorted to the right-wingnut position of needing an automatic assault rifle for personal use as "protection". My ass.

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