Suspect Was ‘Mortified’ About Deployment to War

[Bozita]

Source: NYTimes

November 6, 2009
Suspect Was ‘Mortified’ About Deployment to War
By JAMES DAO


WASHINGTON — Born and reared in Virginia, the son of immigrant parents from a small Palestinian town near Jerusalem, he joined the Army right out of high school, against his parents’ wishes. The Army, in turn, put him through college and then medical school, where he trained to be a psychiatrist.

But Maj. Nidal Malik Hasan, the 39-year-old man accused of Thursday’s mass shooting at Fort Hood, Tex., began having second thoughts about a military career a few years ago after other soldiers harassed him for being a Muslim, he told relatives in Virginia.

He had also more recently expressed deep concerns about being sent to Iraq or Afghanistan. Having counseled scores of returning soldiers with post-traumatic stress disorder, first at Walter Reed Army Medical Center in Washington and more recently at Fort Hood, he knew all too well the terrifying realities of war, said a cousin, Nader Hasan.

“He was mortified by the idea of having to deploy,” Mr. Hasan said. “He had people telling him on a daily basis the horrors they saw over there.”

Read more: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/06/us/06suspect.html?_r=1&hp

[BREMPRO]

1. thanks for the link- NY Times gets the facts and puts it in context

bullying/harrasment, fear of deployment after hearing horror stories- makes more sense.

[question everything]

125. What context. Are people here justify him killing and wounding otthers? (nt)

[Kablooie]

2. At least he's alive and hopefully we will hear his reasons for doing this.

But if his reasons have anything to do with his Muslim identification it's going to be very, very hard on all other Muslims here in the US.

I hope his reasons have nothing to do with his ancestral background or religion.

[No Elephants]

9. Shouldn't be. Should be hard on those within the military who harrassed him (if any did).

Not assuming anything on either side of the issue until we know more.

[marshall]

33. Most of the young people who shoot up high schools were harassed

Then again, most high school students are harassed at one point or another. Luckily most of us don't do something like this.

[Th1onein]

20. SSRI medication is my bet.

I'm sorry to play the same old harp, but I'd bet good money that he was on SSRI meds.

[ShortnFiery]

74. Stop spreading dis-information. When properly prescribed and dispensed SSRIs save lives.

Plus, did I mention the guy was a Psychiatrist (medical doctor who fully understands entries in the PDR) working amongst other Psychiatrists?

[Th1onein]

84. This is not disinformation, and you know it.

These drugs have been associated with, time and time again, these types of mass murders. I think it's a pertinent question to ask: Was he on SSRI medication? Or was he just coming off of it?

And, it doesn't matter one whit whether he was a psychiatrist or not--these compounds make some people unaware of reality and they view mass murder as a perfectly reasonable response to a stressful situation. He is not immune, even if he can understand the entries in a PDR, to the reality altering aspects of these drugs.

And, yes, these types of compounds have helped many people, but their link with these kinds of violence should be explored. Thoroughly explored.

[spoony]

104. Cases like this bring out all the axe-grinders

with their personal agendas, don't they?

[Politicub]

116. I'm guessing you are an anti-mental health scientologist

I'll never understand an aversion to medications that help millions of people overcome depression.

Yes, some people experience tragic side effects. But you don't know that is what happened here. In effect, you are only pushing your agenda based on this tragedy.

[annm4peace]

3. Maybe it had more to do with being a Soldier than a Muslim

[intheflow]

5. Sounds that way to me, too. n/t

[Tim01]

21. Maybe it had to do with him being a nutcase. nt

[tomm2thumbs]

4. found this on News Channel 25 KXXV-TV reporting...

News Channel 25's Natasha Chen has learned the suspected shooter Maj. Malik Hasan had "Allah" keyed into his car last week. He reported it as a hate crime.

[Barack_America]

39. That's very interesting.

Thanks for posting it.

[lumpy]

45. Sounds like, for various reasons, this guy was driven to hate and

acted out with violence.

[Mithreal]

6. Trying to put back together broken people who are

taught to hate people of his color and religion and in a war some assholes called a crusade, is it any wonder?

Damn damn damn.

We are all corporate fodder.

Think we'll learn anything from this? I don't.

[zeemike]

26. I actually agree with that.

We will not learn from it because we will never hear the why of this story from the press.
for economic reasons the 5 W's have been shortened to 4....they leave off the why.

[Chemisse]

7. That should put a stop to the terrorism conspiracy stories

This sounds more like a regular American who simply cracked under the pressure, exerted from various directions. I notice he was unmarried. Could he also have been gay?

[lillypaddle]

8. unmarried doesn't equal gay

[No Elephants]

12. No. No more than being married means being hetero.

[Chemisse]

97. No, I know, but I was just pondering that because of the extra

stress on gays in the military.

[No Elephants]

11. Meaning that he may resent having to die for a country that discriminates against

him for being gay, as well as for being a Muslim?

[cali]

13. Doesn't sound regular at all from what I'm reading

sounds like he had problems years ago. In any case, regular people don't commit mass murder.

[northernlights]

14. um, all "regular" people have a breaking point

even you and me.

We are all regular. We are all potential mass murderers, given sufficient stress and pressure.

[SergeStorms]

16. Horse-hockey..........

we are not all "potential mass murderers". This guy seems to have had it pretty good in life. The Army paid for his advanced education and asked him to perform in his chosen field. Sure, he saw a lot of the human detritus of war, but so do many other people, and they don't go postal because of it.

I think we should guard against making this guy the victim. The real victims are lying on slabs in a morgue somewhere.

[BobRossi]

18. +1 nt

[Veilex]

24. We all have buttons that can be pushed.

Unfortunately, if pushed in proper sequence, anyone can go over the edge and become a murderer. I'm sure we'd all heard about the nice young gentleman that one day just went nutty and started killing people. People often say that he never seemed that type.

Moreover, there is an old joke that goes something like this: Who is a psychiatrists best customer? Other psychiatrists... Psychiatrists and councilors often seek their own for counseling for a very good reason. That reason being that they are only human too. A person can only put up with so much suffering for so long... whether it be their own or somone else.

The inclination is to "man up" and say: "I have a much stronger Psyche than such and such and would never break like that." To those I'd say, i'd like to think the same of anyone, but it's just not reality. Psychology is a woefully missing component in our society and needs much more attention.

[lobodons]

30. All are victims

Yes the ones on brick slabs are indeed victims, but also too could be Major Hasan. Kinda reminds me of the school kids who are harassed and finally lose it. Granted as an adult, the bar is higher and especially higher if you are a mental health specialist, but in the end, we are all humans and are far from perfect. As much energy as we are putting in vilifying Hasan, should be spent in finding out what pushed him over the deep end and trying to rectify that kind of situation for the future.

[leftynyc]

51. I couldn't care less

what pushed him over the top. Just like I didn't care that the Columbine boys were bullied in school. Happens to hundreds of thousands of kids and adults and they don't become mass murderers.

[leftynyc]

50. Bravo

If this man was a Christian you certainly wouldn't be seeing anyone trying to "understand" his motives. The man is a fucking killer and I'll save my sympathy for the dead, wounded and their families.

[Hansel]

86. Too simplistic.

This is why we never get to the answers of how to prevent this.

Yes, it is the people on the slab who are the victims. And maybe there would be a hell of a lot less of them if everyone would abandon the simplistic BS about not making the shooter into a victim. There is an attempt here to understand why he did it. That does not make him into a victim in order to justify his actions, it just acknowledges that maybe he was a victim. Very few people are simply monsters.

Everyone is different. They have different life experiences and different coping mechanisms. Two people can go through very similar traumatic experiences and have completely different ways of responding to them depending upon how they were brought up and family support, their life experiences and their mental capacity to cope.

The goal here needs to be to try to figure out why one does this and another doesn't so that we don't have more innocent people on slabs than need be. If there is any chance this could have been prevented, then changes need to be put in place to try to prevent someone else from becoming this screwed up.

If the guy was being harassed and was traumatized by listening to the war stories, then these are things that can and need to be addressed. Not for his sake, but for the sake of the victims on the slabs.

[Chemisse]

100. I agree. I am curious about why he did it

I recognize that sometimes people can be pushed to their limits, and it is good to analyze how that can happen.

Nevertheless, I have no sympathy for him.

[C_Lawyer09]

126. Snap out of it

Traumatized by war stories? He is a trained Psychiatrist, you do realize part of the training is being able to disassociate yourself from those whom you are treating, otherwise you are not able to help.

[twitomy]

17. Then lets have the families of the slain

who will reach their "breaking point" soon enough have their way with him.

[KatherineEgan]

32. so if a Christian doctor did something

like this because they were so upset hearing about abortions, you would feel the same?

[Name removed]

63. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Hansel]

87. I would certainly want to know why he got so completely screwed up.

Why he has no problem pumping out millions of live sperm to their deaths, but is so emotionally distressed over one of those sperms because it made it to an egg.

Why he feels the need to control woman and stick his nose in other people's business.

I'm sorry, but this is just an asinine comparison.

[Ignis]

83. +1 -- No one is immune to cracking under pressure.

We all have our limits, even if we don't know where they are until tested.

[Codeine]

89. Speak for yourself. nt

[Chemisse]

99. We may all have a breaking point

But what it means to crack up is different for us all. I think most people go the route of suicide.

I am certain I would not ever be a mass murderer.

[amandabeech]

69. In a WaPo story reported on another thread,

he had gone a couple of times to a mosque in the D.C. area (Silver Spring, MD--near his work) to inquire if there were suitable young ladies who might be interested in marriage. He didn't find a match because he wanted someone who was very devote and prayed five times a day.

Seeking an opposite-sex marriage partner is not definitive proof of heterosexuality, it is a strong factor suggesting that he is hetero.

[braddy]

109. Could he also have been gay?

That is the death penalty in Islam and there is no reason to think so, would that mean something to you?

[JCMach1]

10. Interesting the media is focusing on the Muslim angle, not that he was a Psychologist working

at Walter Reed where he would have been working putting shattered lives back together.

[harmonicon]

15. of course they are

That's the far more simple angle. The other element you mention is actually complex and disturbing for its implications (which are multiple).

It's really no different than allowing the media to get away with reporting W saying "they attack us because they hate our freedoms" to hell or high heaven and not delivering an equal pummeling of Bin Laden's "if I hated freedom, I would have attacked Sweden." The second is far more disturbing.

[ShortnFiery]

19. No, he wasn't a PhD Psychologist but a medically trained Doctor, a Psychiatrist.

Remember that it was "psychologists" who threw in with the torturers at GITMO.

Psychiatrists, as medical doctors take an Oath to cherish and sustain life.

Since the "authorities" KILLED him off initially and then BROUGHT HIM BACK TO LIFE, I'm having a difficult time believing anything that's being reported.

I have an impression that after the whorish M$M excoriates him, they'll "kill him off again." Why did they bring him back to life? So that when Obama announces that he's going to give McCrystal 40,000 more troops and all the death and destruction machines and armaments he needs, NO CITIZEN DARE complain ... why? It would be Un-American and dishonor those troops.

I don't believe anything the government tells us ... not since The Gulf of Tonkin.

[JCMach1]

22. Good points... seems like the 'false' death reports gave them time

to see whether they needed to disappear him first.

We probably will never know the truth.

[zeemike]

27. That was my thought too. n/t

[truth2power]

37. Well said. Thank you. n/t

[Ganja Ninja]

29. It's really a relatively simple equation but as usual ...

the media can't add 2 + 2 to save their collective asses.

An American born Muslim subject to the bitter and petty hatred of small minded imbeciles spends his working days hearing the tales from men and women traumatized by a war he doesn't agree with. He posts comments on-line about his sympathies and gets noticed by the FBI who presumably inform the army. They in turn decide to deal with the situation by doing the exact opposite of what they should do. Thus he receives his papers to deploy. Am I missing anything?

[Hansel]

88. Sounds about right. nt

[get the red out]

23. The man lost it, sounds like

People do that under tremendous stress, not excusing it by any means and I wish someone had seen warning signs, but I sure hope the right doesn't use this man going nuts and shooting people to say Al Quaida is about to invade through Mexico and this man was their sleeper distraction or something, all because of President Obama of course. I dread the right's spin, talk radio could cause a lot more people to be hurt from this.

[RedCloud]

25. MSM downplaying his Virginia birth greatly...

bastards are always playing head games with the ignorant.

[bighart]

52. And some here are downplaying the fact that he posted admiration for

suicide bombers and gave the standard "Allah Akbar" shout prior to opening fire.

[amandabeech]

70. "Allah Akbar?" This is not going to go well. n/t

[ShortnFiery]

75. That as NOT been confirmed. That's just way above the top. n/t

[amandabeech]

85. There are several leaks about it, though, purportedly coming from soldiers who were in the room

where the shooter opened up. The soldiers told their parents about it in telephone calls letting their parents know that they are okay, and the parents are talking.

I hope it is not true, as well.

[lobodons]

28. Could be telling at how intolerant our Military is

Can't serve with gays. Can't serve with Muslims.

[PavePusher]

35. Thanks for painting with a broad brush.

Please self-fornicate in new location.

[marshall]

36. When was the last time a gay soldier shouted a pride slogan while conducting a massacre?

I can't recall.

[slackmaster]

59. Yeah, "We're here! We're queer! We're" blam blam blam blam blam just wouldn't cut it

:argh:

[C_Lawyer09]

53. Ridiculous

I love it when people whom have very little first hand experience in or around the military shoot from the hip, and make huge generalizations or pigeon hole Soldiers. It usually isn't the Soldier that has the problem serving with those different than him/herself. The politics of the issue are different than the feelings of the vast majority in the Military. I've served with plenty of Muslims and have friends married to Muslims, Jordanian, Lebanese etc. Lt. Aaron Watada had a moral dillema with deploying, he did not deploy, and he killed no brothers in arms. We have infantrymen who've been deployed four or five times struggling with PTSD who can't find work, and this Psychiatrist decides to kill fellow Soldiers in cold blood? For shame.

[slackmaster]

58. I think "Can't serve with assholes" would cover it

:nuke:

[KatherineEgan]

31. Why would he join the army

if he was not prepared to go to war? If he did not want to go, he needed to get a dishonorable discharge and get out.

Here is a report from someone who was there that said he shouted "Allah Akbar" before he began shooting.

http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=8572568

This makes me think that this was nothing less than individual terrorism.

[Ganja Ninja]

38. It was also reported he posted his anti war sentiments on-line and was noticed ...

by the FBI. Presumably they informed the army so one has to wonder why someone like that would be deployed to a war he disagreed with rather than discharged or assigned other duties.

[lumpy]

55. He had been trying for a long time to get discharged .

The man had multiple serious problems that the military knew about. Nothing was done about it. The guy espressed his hate and frustration by acting out with ultimate violence.
The disgusting thing about this is that, inspite of the fact the military knew about the guy's problems he was allowed to remain in a position to commit the ultimate act.

[C_Lawyer09]

115. Resign commission

It is not hard for an officer to resign his commission, barring that, leave. It doesn't seem plausible to me that he tried very hard.

[AllieB]

68. 'Allah Akbar' means 'God is Great'.

it is not a terrorist jihad slogan.

[Codeine]

95. It is invariably used in such circumstances, however.

To pretend otherwise is the rankest sophistry.

[sofa king]

34. I knew it. You can't trust those damned Virginians.

Hey, wait a minute... I'm a Virginian. You can trust me!

[Barack_America]

40. Sounds like he joined the military before the Persian Gulf War.

If he joined "straight out of high school" as the article said.

It also sounds like he took every path available to him to delay deployment; the extra MPH degree, the fellowship in addition to a residency.

It also sounds like the military had invested so much in him that they were damn well going to get what they wanted out of him.

[truth2power]

41. I'm amazed at the lack of compassion for this individual by some posters

on this thread.

I can barely contain my rage most days when reading or hearing about the horrors we're inflicting on innocent people in that part of the world with our FILTHY wars. Just so we can steal their resources. And because we CAN.

And I'm just an ordinary person living in a non-descript suburb in the Midwest. How he must have felt, knowing the horrors related by our servicemen and women when they returned. God help the American people if they ever have to really experience 1/1000th of what we've inflicted on others.

Oh...and, before those on their high-horse weigh in....feeling compassion for this individual does not negate feeling compassion for the families of those he killed. They are ALL victims. All except the MIC war profiteers and their toadies who are the real perpetrators of 9/11.

(Now this can be sent to the dungeon, I suppose).

[slackmaster]

44. Fuck him. He's a fucking mass murderer. He signed up for combat duty when he volunteered for service

:argh:

[truth2power]

61. Well...some thoughts on that..

Would you also say that about the high-school students who sign up? I've personally observed what the recruiters who come to high schools do. They blow smoke and give these kids all kinds of trinkets, IMO to cement students identity with the military. I do not think these students who sign up are doing so with informed consent. They CANNOT know the hell that war really is.

That said, let's walk back the training of Hasan. If the military paid for his medical school education, that would be 4 yrs. of med school, 1 yr internship, 1 or 2 yrs residency (I'm not sure of the # there), then training in his psychiatry specialty (again, a year or two?). Also, I understand he's been a practicing psychiatrist for several years at least.

That would mean that he made his committment 11 or 12 years ago, maybe longer. Who could have known, c. 1998 that a psychopath would be installed as POTUS? Or that events would unfold as they did?

Technically, of course, you're correct. Those who sign up for the military know that they be asked to defend their country by force of arms. Emphasis on "defend". The future cannot be known with any certainty.

However, in a civilized nation, serving in the military should not include committing war crimes, such as preventive wars for others' resources, sodomizing children and adults, raping women, beating innocent people to death, sexually abusing others, hanging them, manacled, from the ceiling and allowing that execrable Rumsfeld to laugh about it all.

Therefore, Hasan had every right to say, in substance, "This is not what I signed up for". Hell...any recruit has a right to say that, as far as I'm concerned.

Hasan should have been listened to. We will eventually destroy ourselves. Some would say that that is the working of Karma.

[C_Lawyer09]

117. Recruiter Bashing

Ah, the ever so predictable recruiting bashing starts. First, most Recruiters are selected, i.e. not volunteers, secondly, it's an all volunteer force. Lastly, it's depressing that you and many like you find it neccessary to generalize an entire segment of the military population, especially a neccessary one. Never mind the monkey flips and cheetah somersaults it takes to get an individual enlisted that badly wants to join. By the way, whats wrong with giving somebody a key chain?

[Dreamer Tatum]

62. +1 fuck him

[braddy]

106. He signed up for combat duty when he volunteered for service

He is a Psychiatrist, they do not fight or see combat. Believe it or not the Psychiatrists and Pathologists and the Proctologists, etc. do not go to war when they go overseas.

[C_Lawyer09]

118. Wrong

That is a misinformed answer. Medical as well as other Soldier professionals make no such agreement.

[Jeroen]

46. +1, well said. n/t

[chatnoir]

71. I thought I was the only one who felt this way

But I agree with everything you said.

[mamaleah]

80. Please tell me you'd have the same compassion if he were a teabagging douche.

Because if he were, I doubt there would be 1 post pleading for compassion.

[Codeine]

91. Of course he wouldn't.

DU is insane about religion.

[mamaleah]

94. As I said on another thread.....

If it's Christianity, it is to be mocked at all times. If it Judaism, remind everyone frequently that Jews are the cause of all woe in the ME, nevermind that over half the Jewish population lives nowhere near the ME.

All other religions are to be treated with respect, tolerance, and even honor.

[truth2power]

101. I'm a she. Just sayin'. n/t

[truth2power]

102. Probably not...

I think it's about context.

[Pavulon]

81. I would feel compassion if he hanged himself, my compassion stopped

when he shot random people just because he could. For that he is an asshole and receives not a sliver of compassion from me. Fuck him, hopefully he suffers greatly before his execution. He will not suffer "1/1000th" of what he inflicted on random people.

[totodeinhere]

92. The shooter is not a victim.

No matter how much he hated the wars that shrub got us into, that doesn't justify killing innocent people. And if he were harassed and called a "camel jockey" like some reports are indicating, that's wrong and whoever did it should be punished severely. But that still doesn't justify killing innocent people. That's what we have to focus on.

[naaman fletcher]

93. bullshit..

Yes, he knew the horrors related by our serviceman and woman. His solution was to inflict such horrors on other servicemen and civilians.

Gosh some people piss me offf.

[Xenotime]

42. That's some mess * got us into. Thanks asshole.

[Thothmes]

98. It wasnt * that was going to send him. It was President Obama

[ClarkUSA]

43. Nothing he experienced justifies his horrifyingly despicable act of mass murder.

Plenty of Muslims in this country have been targets of harassment, yet I don't see them walking into crowded public
areas and shooting down scores of innocent fellow Americans. There's plenty of soldiers who have PTSD who have
not gunned down their fellow soldiers en masse. There are plenty of anti-war soldiers who have voiced their opposition
to the war without resorting to senseless acts of mass murder. This guy never even got deployed overseas to Iraq.

There's more to this story than is apparent right now. The fact he did this while dressed in Muslim garb and yelled,
"Allah Akbar" before opening fire is suggestive of some sort of cultural/religious reasons for his terrible and criminally
insane act of violence.

[ClarkUSA]

49. Hmm... Maj. Hassan admired jihadists. His "web postings referred to suicide bombers as brave heroes"

Link: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=8735349&mesg_id=8735349

[sufrommich]

47. If your going to accept the benefits of a military career, you have

to also accept that you may be expected to go to war.

[ShortnFiery]

77. I'm sorry, when did Congress declare "WAR" against either Iraq or Afghanistan?

:eyes:

[24601]

111. When you accept the pay and allowances, you should have

sufficient brains to recognize that Congress has not declared war since WWII and that the current methodology is an AUMF - Authorized use of Military Force. Except of course that Bill Clinton didn't bother to get one for the Bosnia & Kosovo Good Will Bombing Campaigns.

So Fuck this Asshat - he was just fine getting his fancy education from the military - during periods of AUMF - until it was his time to serve.

BTW, while the Constitution gives Congress the power to Declare WAR, it is silent about what form the declaration has to conform to. For all the purposes that matter, AUMF gets the job done because it puts the Congress and President on the same course. And a Declaration of War is just a statement of being - it deploys no troops, drops no bombs, builds no tanks, ships, planes. Given the backbone of our Congress these days, a Declaration of War is up there with a Resolution of Hurt Feelings.

[crim son]

48. Definitely the best way to deal with the stress and pain associated

with doing the job you were trained and are paid to do, is to kill and injure a bunch of people.

I have no sympathy for people like him, none.

[ShortnFiery]

78. You are passing judgment on little to no information. n/t

[crim son]

96. If it makes you feel better, I passed no judgement. n/t

[slackmaster]

54. Fuck the NYT! How about some articles about the soldiers who were MURDERED?

:nuke:

[Blue_Tires]

56. well, everyone is still in the "why?" and "how?" phase

just like Virginia Tech...and since the suspect is still alive (for now) we'll continue to hear it until he goes to trial...

[slackmaster]

57. I think it's great that they finally caught one alive

I hope they analyze the bejeepers out of him before they execute him.

[Paladin]

60. Guess That's What Passes As Good News For A Gun Militant. (n/t)

[Igel]

64. I'm sure he was mortified.

What many are missing is that his mortification, so to speak, has a reason.

The NYT says he heard about the horrors of war and that this lead to his mortification at the prospect of being deployed. Fine.

However he could reject the possibility for any number of reasons. There are various paths that can get you from the "horror stories" to being so outraged/mortified/offended (etc.) that you're willing to kill a bunch of what people.

He could have been mortified at the prospect of picking up a gun and going to kill other humans. Moreover, it might not have been just "humans" that he objected to killing--after all, he killed 13 of them. The relevant category might have been "Arabs" or "Muslims". Different motivation, same outcome--but the choice of the dead makes a bit more sense. But he was a psychiatrist and they're not usually on the front lines. Psychiatrists seldom kill many people, at least not directly.

On the other hand, if he just snapped trying to make "sense" of it might involve hitting upon just the right definition of what would be a highly idiosyncratic and personally defined word.

Then again, perhaps it was his experience being insulted for being Muslim that put him over the edge. The choice of targets makes sense. But why now? Were the killings essentially random within a set that was just "those at Ft. Hood"? Did he originally target specific offenders? Gee--then it's not his mortification at going to Iraq that's the proximal trigger and talk of mortification--while it may agree with general DU mortification--is only background.

There's various rumors about conversation and "Allahu akbar" that await confirmation. His change of attitude may have less to do with being harassed for his religion and his particular strain of what is often billed as some monolithic, strictly top-down defined religion. Perhaps it was the pressure of realizing that he was going to be living among those like him, killed by those not like him whom he's to help so they can go and kill more people like him that made the difference. That could certainly be mortifying.

In short, we know much less than the NYT tells us we know. But it's a very nice narrative, one that we can certainly empathize with.

[justiceischeap]

65. I think if I was Muslim & in the Army I'd be mortified to go to Afghanistan/Iraq too

Imagine just how easy it would be to get fragged.

Fragged from Wiki:
In the U.S. military, fragging refers to the act of attacking a superior officer with a fragmentation grenade.<1> The term originated in the Vietnam War and was most commonly used to mean assassination of an unpopular officer of one's own fighting unit, often by means of a fragmentation grenade, hence the term. Although the term is derived from the grenade, the act was more commonly committed with firearms during combat in Vietnam.

Most recent incident:
Iraq war:
Captain Phillip Esposito and 1st Lieutenant Louis Allen were killed on June 7, 2005, by a Claymore mine placed on Esposito's office window at Forward Operating Base Danger in Tikrit, Iraq. The unit's supply sergeant was charged with the murder, but was subsequently acquitted at courts martial.

BTW, I am in no way defending what this sick f*** did, I'm just stating a very valid reason for him to be "mortified."

[ShortnFiery]

66. But then that doesn't make sense why he ACTED OUT in such an horrific way.

Why didn't he just take himself out? :shrug:

[justiceischeap]

67. Ever heard of "Suicide by Cop?"

Not everything people do makes sense. Especially something of this magnitude. Hell, how often do we hear about kids shooting up schools being bullied. If this guy was indeed getting threatened, ribbed for being Muslim then his actions are consistent of what we've seen in these types of situations. Again, not defending the dude, just being logical about it.

[ShortnFiery]

72. Yes, but he's a Psychiatrist ... he treats TRAUMA victims ... if anyone, he should know the signs

that he was mentally/emotionally de-compensating and sought out help. Hell! He was surrounded by colleagues who were equally educated in MENTAL HEALTH yet none of them picked up on the signs.

It doesn't give me a comforting feeling about our Mental Health Programs for returning soldiers when neither a Military Psychiatrist NOR his peers or superiors realized that this man was on the edge.

[justiceischeap]

73. All the more reason for him to flip his lid

Think about all the awful things he hears about on a daily basis. I agree that mental health care for the military seems to be in trouble if this guy did indeed decompensate and no one caught it.

[ShortnFiery]

76. That's totally UNSAT. There are no words to describe the revulsion I feel

having worked in the mental health community that NOBODY picked-up on the fact that this man was on the edge. :(

[pfitz59]

79. having been in the military.....

I'm sure there were plenty of signs he was near the edge, but some asshat in detailing decided to push him over it just "because"....

[justiceischeap]

82. Is the stop-loss policy still in effect?

If so, then it would explain why someone left this man on the edge. Of course this is all speculation but who knows...it certainly doesn't seem something a sane person would do.

[RobinA]

129. Oh Please

I work in the mental health community and most of the people around me are lucky if they can pick up what's going on with the CLIENTS, let along coworkers. The knowledge level of some of these people is appalling.

[spoony]

105. Doesn't suicide by cop

usually involve faking a danger enough to warrant lethal response, rather than actually killing people?

[Hansel]

90. I wonder that too.

It could be because he was so completely unstable and screwed up now that he has to deployed that his could now longer compose himself. It's possible that all of the stories came back to him at once and he saw his clients at Walter Reed and their hatred of the Iraqi's in these men and women. I don't think his was reasoning very well.

Sick as it might be, it might have been a religious thing. He was a devote Muslim and I don't think they believe they can get to heaven by simply committing suicide. Before anyone says anything about suicide bombers, I believe they justify it as that they are at war and are doing it to protect their people.

[braddy]

107. Imagine just how easy it would be to get fragged.

All the fragging has been by American Muslim soldiers of American non-Muslims, not the other way around, in fact zero of the other way around.

[truth2power]

103. My final word on this subject...Everyone on this thread who sees Hasan as a monster

needs to get on their computer and watch tonite's edition of Bill Moyers' Journal. The entire hour was given to a showing (I think not the entire movie) of "The Good Soldier" which will be opening in theaters across the country this week.

I feel for Hasan, as for his victims. Anyone who wants to assign blame for this tragedy might want to start with those who isolated him and referred to him as a "sand-jockey". (This according to a news report I heard this afternoon).

Watch the movie.

[Name removed]

108. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Douglas Carpenter]

131. nonsense, the vast majority of American-Muslims are loyal Americans

and perfectly decent an honorable folk. Nothing in the article you quoted supports your wildly bigoted and hateful comment. There have been a few incidents in the past year. This comment is no more appropriate than trying to incite anti-Semitism by blaming Jewish-Americans for the actions of a few or African-Americans for the actions of a few. It is dangerous and hateful language like this that sets the stage for real catastrophes.

U.S. Muslims Condemn Attack at Fort Hood

Posted 11/5/2009 6:15:00 PM

link: http://www.cair.com/ArticleDetails.aspx?ArticleID=26126&&name=n&&currPage=1

(WASHINGTON, D.C., 11/5/09) - A prominent national Muslim civil rights and advocacy group tonight condemned an attack on Fort Hood military base in Texas that left at least 12 people dead.

In a statement,

the Washington-based Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR) said:

“We condemn this cowardly attack in the strongest terms possible and ask that the perpetrators be punished to the full extent of the law. No religious or political ideology could ever justify or excuse such wanton and indiscriminate violence. The attack was particularly heinous in that it targeted the all-volunteer army that protects our nation. American Muslims stand with our fellow citizens in offering both prayers for the victims and sincere condolences to the families of those killed or injured.”

[Pavulon]

110. Fuck him, his god will shit on him. I shit on him

he had lots of options short of random murder. I dont give a rat fuck about how much shit he took. I watched guys take shit for being gay (who weren't even gay), took shit for not being a retard (viewed by some in the army as a flaw) and managed not to murder people. I spent a year and 5 months deployed with unhappy people and access to weapons and managed not to kill people. Jesus dance down the isle fucking miracle it was. He could have taken his sorry ass out of the country or gone awol before he went bonkers. He could have hanged his sorry ass or blown his shitty brains out.

The army is not the girl scouts, he took an md slot and was all ready to make dollars in private practice, but had to deploy, poor Major. He took an oath as a doctor and an officer, both of which he twatted up. He is below contempt and if he was half a man would kill himself and spare us the effort.

He betrayed himself and his fellow soldiers and is a shitstain in the history of the army. I would personally hand you my rank while i kicked the dogshit out of this scum.

I hope he suffers greatly before he is executed.

[Bacchus39]

113. indeed, suicide would have been the preferred option n/t

s

[Bacchus39]

112. and your last word was utterly stupid

he is a mass murderer. do you apreciate Jeffrey Dahmer too? freak!!!

[cali]

122. nope. you are wrong to assign blame for Hasan's actions to those who may

have called him names. And the more I read about Hasan the clearer it is that he was a very sick man. You want to assign blame? Look to his supervisors at WRMC. By the reports available, Hasan exhibited inappropriate behavior in plain sight. Ultimately however, Hasan is responsible for his actions.

[woo me with science]

123. ...

[Sultana]

114. I am disgusted by all the sympathizes in DU

Hasan is a murderer, STOP trying to justify his actions.

Boo-hoo, he got harassed, who hasn't???

[slackmaster]

121. That's how I feel about it too - I spent my childhood and teens being harassed

For having a German name and wearing glasses. Things I had no control over.

[riderinthestorm]

119. The only indication we have that Hassan was harrased is from his aunt.

Until I hear some different confirmation, I'm skeptical.

The harrassment of a medical doctor? at one of the world's best hospitals? for years? taunted with "camel jockey" by his fellow professionals?

That doesn't add up imho.

[DuaneBidoux]

120. This is humbling. It shows that anyone can crack under the right circumstances.

We are talking a highly intelligent man who was both a med doctor and a psychologist.

But imagine, having his job, the horrors he has heard day in and day out from soldiers coming back. I can not even begin to imagine.

[C_Lawyer09]

124. Psychiatrist not Psychologist

He cracks from hearing what others experienced while deployed, some multiple times. He cracks? A field grade officer kills those he is sworn to protect both as a Major and by the hippocratic oath. Imagine having his job? Imagine being a 20 y.o. Private with your whole life ahead of you and being gunned down by this schmuck because he has a challenging job or somebody called him names.

[DuaneBidoux]

128. A psychiatrist is a psychologist plus an MD.

[JonQ]

127. A good way to avoid deployment: don't enlist in the military

I would be more sympathetic if he were drafted but the asshole volunteered. I assume he knew what the army did prior to signing.

[BreweryYardRat]

130. Insufficient information + wild speculation.

Let's wait for the dust to settle a bit more, okay?

At this point, we've got multiple possible motives being bandied around, none of which have confirmed supporting evidence.