Breaking: Italian court convicts 23 Americans of kidnapping in CIA rendition of Muslim cleric

[maddezmom]

Source: AP

will update link

Read more: http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5gp8M6dmt8Ho2DRK_eqR7dl7QsMXAD9BOQESO0

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Decided not to prosecute the former director of the earthquake and his deputy
Condemned the CIA agents for abduction of the imam of Milan
Abu Omar, "For the state secrets
Pollari and Mancini does not judge "


The deputy prosecutor Armando Spataro

ROME - The judge in Milan ruled the Maggi decision not to prosecute the former head of SISMI Nicolo Pollari and his deputy Marco Mancini. Were instead convicted the agents of the CIA, in large part to five years in prison while Robert Seldon Lady was sentenced to eight years. Officials SISMI Pio Pompa and Luciano Seno accused of abetting were sentenced to three years.

Pollari, some of his men and the 26 CIA agents were accused of taken the Muslim cleric Abu Omar, Under investigation by prosecutors in Milan for international terrorism, in February 2003. Abu Omar was then taken to Egypt, where he was tortured, so as to suffer permanent injury.

Prosecutor Armando Spataro, in its reply, he repeated the line of accusation: "Pollari and Mancini have not ensured security in Italy, but by their behavior, they have compromised." For about two hours the PM responded to the conclusions of the defense lawyers and, in particular, has denied having circumvented the Constitutional Court ruling on state secrets claim, however, that in his opinion was "a duty and right of interpretation . Spataro had responded to the claims of the defenders of the accused. Before retiring in chambers, Judge Oscar Maggi had all give thanks, "especially the attorneys of the accused fugitives who made possible by their presence the celebration of the process."

In past hearings, prosecutors had asked for the former director of SISMI, Nicolo Pollari, 13 years in prison, as well as the former head of CIA in Italy, Jeff Castelli. Prosecutors had requested a sentence of 10 years for the former number two of Sismi, Marco Mancini, present in court today, and for a number of CIA agents involved in the kidnapping, which occurred on February 17, 2003 near the mosque of Viale Jenner in Milan. Defenders of current or former Sismi had all urged acquittal for not having committed the crime of their assistititi or, alternatively, a sentence of not having to go for the existence of state secrecy.

more:http://www.repubblica.it/2009/09/sezioni/cronaca/processo-abu-omar/sentenza-abu-omar/sentenza-abu-omar.html

[Solly Mack]

1. Good!

Not that America has the integrity to turn them over...

[cosmicone]

2. Now these people won't be able to travel outside the US

or face arrest and extradition to Italy to serve the sentences.

However, being the CIA, they will always get duplicate passports under fake names to travel.

[L. Coyote]

5. Won't they be deported by the USA to serve their sentences?

Or is the United States a universe onto itself, above the law?

[dipsydoodle]

6. You forgot

the sarcasm thingy. Fat chance there is of them being deported. I guess that if they do step foot outside of the USA they'll be picked up on an Interpol warrant.

[merh]

7. The USA considers itself above the law and universe unto itself.

Hell, are leaders are above the law.

Nothing will happen, move along ...

[Independent_Liberal]

25. You forgot the sarcasm tag.

No, I won't move along. This is just a first step. It's up to us to keep pushing it along.

As I've said before, we need to stop saying our leaders are above the law. We need to nip that in the bud before people begin to take it seriously and believe it as literal.

[merh]

29. Yes, I forgot the sacarism tag - but you know that

so what the hell are you lecturing me?

[EFerrari]

38. Yesterday Solly Mack told me about a study that shows only Americans

believe as a group that they can change reality with positive thinking.

I'd laugh but it's more scary than funny.

[merh]

39. If positive thinking really worked

I have a friend that wouldn't be serving time as one of bushco's political prisoners.

I just try to keep the faith that things will get batter.

[EFerrari]

40. If positive thinking really worked, I could beam some of these homemade tamales

over to you AND you wouldn't get heartburn from them. :hug:

[merh]

42. Home made tamales

Oh, you are right, if positive thinking really, really worked, I'd be smiling with heartburn.

:hug:

[EFerrari]

43. Lol.. Please check your mailbox.

[merh]

48. You need to go check your inbox

:hi:

[Vidar]

45. We strong-armed Switzerland to get Polanski, but laws don't apply to us.

[bertman]

56. "are leaders are above the law." Huh??

[merh]

58. grammar nazi

whodathunk that so many bothered to gave a shit about a sarcastic post like mine

:rofl:

[pattmarty]

9. Ha, ha, you're really funny. That was a really good joke, had me for a minute.

:sarcasm:

[Flaneur]

10. You mean extradited. Interesting question. We demand Polanski back.

I'm sure there is an extradition treaty between the US and Italy.

[L. Coyote]

14. Yes, extradited. Why didn't they appear for trial? BUSH--but that changed

and we like to assume the rule of law was restored with our Sidley Austin intern in the White House. No sign yet that this is so, regretably.

Oh yeah, they don't have a :facitious: smiley.

Facetious
1. not meant to be taken seriously or literally: a facetious remark.
2. amusing; humorous.
3. lacking serious intent; concerned with something nonessential, ......

[Altoid_Cyclist]

18. They will be as safe as Warren Anderson was after Bhopal.

Different type of crime, but the US does protect its' own no matter how many people die or have their lives ruined.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bhopal_disaster



A Bhopal court on Friday ordered the Central Bureau of Investigation to arrest former Union Carbide chairman Warren Anderson and produce him without delay, prompting survivors of the 1984 Bhopal gas tragedy to celebrate on the streets.

On the intervening night of Decmber 2 and 3, 1984, Union Carbide Ltd had spewed methyl isocyanate, a lethal toxic gas, killing thousands of people and maiming thousands of others. Anderson, besides Union Carbide, is a prime accused in the case and was proclaimed an absconder in 1992 after he refused to appear in the court despite several summons.

Rest of article:
http://news.rediff.com/report/2009/aug/01/court-asks-cbi-to-arrest-anderson.htm

[glitch]

44. Not every US citizen gets that protection. To be consider one of the USA's "own" I do believe you

must have specific and necessary connections to the top 1% of the economy.

[Altoid_Cyclist]

50. I sometimes forget to type what my brain is trying to say.

I was talking about the people with the clout to command such protection, but I worded it poorly.

If I did something in another country, the US would extradite my ass in a second. Of course, I'm only a peasant so.........

Thank you for the clarification.

[glitch]

55. De nada and belated welcome to DU! nt

[Altoid_Cyclist]

57. I'm so ashamed... I had to look up the meaning of de nada.

Thanks again for the clarification and also for the fact that I now know one more thing that I didn't know before today.

Life is one long continuous learning process if we allow it to be.

And I can't forget to say thank you for the belated welome.
(Long time lurker & reader) short time poster.

:hi:

[caseymoz]

20. There is no way the US will do that-- at least before 2014

The Obama administration has taken up every one of Bush's policies regarding expanded executive powers and the immunity of people who work for the executive branch.

Now, if it's all an act to try to de-escalate the tensions keeping the right wing loonies in power, and there are plenty right wing loonies now considered mainstream, we will only know by 2014, I think.

Meanwhile, these agents will not be able to lay a foot overseas, their covers have been blown, and their careers, outside of being paper-pushers, are over. Meanwhile, I would think the CIA will not be tolerated in Italy.

It's not justice, yet, but it is just a little sweet.

[saigon68]

51. The present occupant won't do squat

He won't investigate or punish anyone.

[Mudoria]

22. I don't think that would be a problem

if they travel outside the country no one will arrest them or extradite them. No one is going to get on the bad side of the US :patriot:

[Demeter]

33. The US Has a Good Side?

Where? :shrug:

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

41. The Bush torture machine will be hunted for the rest of their lives

There are no secrets, especially in anything that touches aviation such as rendition. Many will be captured and prosecuted.

[EFerrari]

3. Good.

I hope this is the first of many cases against these criminals.

[OneAngryDemocrat]

4. BRAVISIMO!!!

BRAVISIMO!!!

[dipsydoodle]

8. BBC News link

An Italian judge has convicted 23 CIA agents and two Italian secret agents of the kidnap of a Muslim cleric in 2003.

The agents were accused of abducting Hassan Mustafa Osama Nasr, known as Abu Omar, from Milan and sending him to Egypt, where he was allegedly tortured.

The trial, which began in June 2007, is the first involving the CIA's so-called "extraordinary rendition" programme.

>

The CIA station chief in Milan, Robert Lady, was given an eight-year term, while the other 22 Americans convicted were sentenced to five years in prison.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/8343123.stm

[sattahipdeep]

34. Change? "We are disappointed by the verdicts,"

The Obama administration has expressed its disappointment at the convictions.

"We are disappointed by the verdicts," state department spokesman Ian Kelly said in Washington.

He declined to comment further pending a written opinion from the judge, but said an appeal was likely.

The court also ruled that those convicted must pay $1.5m
in damages to Abu Omar and 500,000 euros to his wife.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/8343123.stm

....
AMY GOODMAN: That was Maher Arar describing his own ordeal before the House Judiciary and Foreign Affairs Subcommittee. I shouldn’t exactly say “before” the committee; he’s not allowed into the United States, so he spoke via video conference, barred from entering this country. I mean, that is a very graphic description, Maria LaHood. What exactly does this mean, that the US government can take someone from US soil, US citizen or otherwise, and send them off to another country that they know engages in torture?

MARIA LAHOOD: Absolutely, and even that if they intend them to be tortured. And it doesn’t have to be a foreign citizen. This decision is broad enough to affect any of us. Basically, if the federal government decides to do something that it purports to be in our national security to do, they could torture any of us, they could kill any of us, and there would be no relief in the federal courts.

http://www.democracynow.org/2009/11/3/appeals_court_rules_in_maher_arar

[Soylent Brice]

11. K&R

[Torn_Scorned_Ignored]

12. * l *

:popcorn:

[TexasObserver]

13. Recommend

[Heidi]

15. Recommended.

:kick:

[Heidi]

16. Background about Roby Lady in Der Spiegel (very interesting article).

http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/0,1518,657431,00.html

Props to Solly Mack for finding and posting this link in GD: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x6924971#6925484

[Call Me Wesley]

17. Recommended, too.

I found this especially telling:

Jose Rodriguez, the former head of the CIA's National Cladestine Service is the only one to have complained so far. Apparently, he didn't know the Italians actually had their own state, independent, state prosecutors.

[Lena inRI]

19. CAVOLO! C'e FORMIDABILE !

LA BELLA ITALIA!


:fistbump: :fistbump: :fistbump: :fistbump: :fistbump:

[valerief]

21. So ultimately this doesn't mean anything, right? It's just more theater. nt

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

24. Probably theater. Is Italy applying for extradition of these agents?

Convict the agents, but don't prosecute the Italian prosecutor and deputy? This sounds like a show, playing to the media.

If Italy applies to the U.S. for extradition, then I guess they're serious.

edit to add: I looked to see if Italy already asked for extradition, but the link didn't help. Alas, my Italian is very weak.

[L. Coyote]

28. Italy: Judge issues 140 arrest warrants in "Plan Condor" case. Bush NOT YET indicted.

If you are hauled before a court, you might decide it is not just "theatre" real fast!!

Italy: Judge issues 140 arrest warrants in "Plan Condor" case. Bush NOT YET indicted.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x2528536

[Fedja]

35. Extradition is out of the question

The US regularly hides its criminals from international prosecution. The one actual consequence will be that none of these people will be able to leave the US. Any other authorities will apprehend and extradite them upon landing.

[MGKrebs]

23. Well maybe someone will come over here and kidnap them

and send them to Italy to serve their sentence. I wonder if we would protest?

[glitch]

46. They can always use the USA justification for rendition.

I look forward to the time our politicians can extrapolate their actions onto others, using the "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you" rule (what is it, 5000 year old? Older?).

[Independent_Liberal]

26. K&R!

I'm not going to let those who are trying to poopoo this get me down. This is a step in the right direction. This is some of the best news I've heard all week actually.

[kaehele]

30. yes!

excellent news.

[sabrina 1]

36. I agree with you. For the victims, it is a victory. To have someone

acknowledge that a crime was committed against them. Sad to say they could not get justice in the US. Many people have said that the US will not police itself and justice will have to come from outside this country.

I hope Italy demands extradition as that would keep the story in the news. We certainly seem willing to make such demands on other countries.

I am sure that it is somewhat reassuring to those who were tortured that this ruling is absolute condemnation of the crime committed against them. It would have improved our standing in the world if we had cooperated.

Sad to see the Obama administration take the side of the torturers. I imagine his standing in the world will be diminished by this. All those people who were thrilled because they thought America under Obama would never defend torture as it had under Bush.

[Juche]

27. The rendition program began under Clinton and Gore

It violates several domestic and international laws, and leaders of both parties (Clinton, Gore, Bush, Cheney) can probably be brought to trial because of it. The desire to believe 'those bad republicans over there' are the only ones breaking the law is not true. I believe Obama himself has broken the law by trying to cover up crimes like this.

Which is why nothing will happen. As long as politicians control what happens legally they are not going to sacrifice leaders of both parties. It is going to take the domestic courts or international courts and legislatures to do something about this.

[seattle_blue]

31. unless I missed it

I checked CNN for this story and they're not even covering it. I've noticed a clear and sharp right turn CNN has taken over the years...

[RayStar]

49. Check now

CNN is covering now. Just scroll down.

[TexasObserver]

32. Other countries will take the actions our govt will not take.

The out of control lawlessness of the Bush administration has not been repudiated. It has been tolerated and sheltered.

This is one area where I find the president's lack of a backbone or substance to be alarming.

[saigon68]

52. No its "NO change" you can believe in

[TexasObserver]

54. Meet the new boss ...

I appreciate that the president is doing some good things, and he's far, far better than anything any other party might have run. And I really was excited about his rhetoric, but I didn't realize it was just talk.

He shouldn't sell hope if he's going to stomp it every time it raises its head. He's just entirely too cozy with the war party, the war machine, and those who run them.

[majamay]

37. kicked--men and women have basic rights n/t

[TankLV]

47. Good!!! But they forgot two more I can think of...

[tclambert]

53. Bush and Cheney still at large.

No conviction for them? No arrest warrants? Does anyone in the universe think those CIA agents acted WITHOUT authorization from the Bush Administration? Does anyone anywhere think they acted AGAINST orders?