Zelaya sets midnight deadline for return to presidency

[struggle4progress]

Source: Channel News Asia (MediaCorp)

Posted: 23 October 2009

TEGUCIGALPA: Ousted Honduran President Manuel Zelaya on Thursday set a midnight deadline for his return to office, or he will withdraw from talks with the de facto government, his chief negotiator said.

"If by 12:00 midnight (0600 GMT Friday) we haven't received an answer from (de facto leader Roberto) Micheletti's delegation, we'll consider the dialogue terminated," Zelaya's chief negotiator Victor Meza said after meeting behind closed doors with Micheletti's top negotiator.

Meza said he asked Micheletti's people to comply with the Organisation of American States' urging on Wednesday that Zelaya be reinstated.

"We're not prepared to allow the putschist regime to use the talks as a tool to delay a solution, to postpone a way out of the crisis, to play for time. The dictatorship is stealing time from the Honduran democracy," he added ...


Read more: http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/afp_world/view/1013185/1/.html

---

Honduras Crisis Talks Edge Toward Collapse

By REUTERS
Published: October 22, 2009
Filed at 10:32 p.m. ET

... Micheletti's camp ignored the ultimatum, offering to present a new proposal on Friday.

Zelaya's envoys said the toppled president would wait until midnight (2 a.m. EDT/0600 GMT) to decide whether to wait for Micheletti's new offer or go ahead and break off talks.

U.S. President Barack Obama's administration has yet to decide whether it will recognize the election as legitimate if Zelaya is not restored before the vote ...

http://www.nytimes.com/reuters/2009/10/22/world/international-us-honduras.html

[L. Coyote]

1. BRAVO. He could not be more correct about the Coup's intentions.

Previous LATEST thread:

US revokes more visas to pressure Honduran solution
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x4113367

[L. Coyote]

2. AP: Zelaya rejects new offer from Honduras coup gov't By JUAN CARLOS LLORCA

Zelaya rejects new offer from Honduras coup gov't
By JUAN CARLOS LLORCA (AP) – 1 hour ago - http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5jAkMGKIUDg_ngUiZboxQbYj5_DPwD9BGIBN81

TEGUCIGALPA, Honduras — Ousted President Manuel Zelaya on Thursday rejected a new settlement proposal from Honduras' interim government ....

The latest plan proposed by representatives of interim President Roberto Micheletti would permit the two factions to consult whichever branch of government they wished to decide if Zelaya should be restored to office. The coup-installed government didn't explain how they might resolve the dispute.

.........

Micheletti wants the decision to be made by the Supreme Court, the body that initially ordered Zelaya's arrest before his ouster June 28 over his attempt to hold a referendum on changing the constitution. The court, which had ruled the referendum illegal, has said Zelaya should not be allowed to return to office.

.....

The interim government previously has said the crisis would best be resolved by the presidential election scheduled for Nov. 29.

..............

[L. Coyote]

3. Crisis talks resume in Honduras By Noe Leiva (AFP) – 1 hour ago

Crisis talks resume in Honduras
By Noe Leiva (AFP) – 1 hour ago - http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5jaGjjI3v78RUUPbkD3m7931tRw_w


TEGUCIGALPA — Honduras' de facto regime rejected a midnight deadline set by ousted President Manuel Zelaya ..... Zelaya's chief negotiator Victor Meza issued an ultimatum ....

Micheletti's response did not take long. He rejected Zelaya's ultimatum ....

"This committee, having categorically rejected the 12 midnight ultimatum... states that our answer or counteroffer will be presented tomorrow at 10:00am (1600 GMT Friday," said Micheletti negotiator Vilma Morales......

International observers say the current mayhem would prevent a fair election campaign

.....

Amid growing criticism of the heavy-handed de facto regime, a report by a Honduran rights group, the Committee for Missing Prisoners in Honduras, said that 21 people had been "executed by violence or murder" since the coup, and that there had been more than 4,000 cases of human rights abuses. ...............

[YouTakeTheSkyway]

4. This thing is going to be dragged out

either until the elections or held or until just before they're scheduled to be held. I mean, I hate to say it, but that's the way it's looking.

[L. Coyote]

7. It just gets worse, day by day = Revoke the Right Of Assembly?

October 21, 2009 - http://hondurascoup2009.blogspot.com/2009/10/how-can-it-be-legal-to-revoke-right-of.html
How Can it be Legal to Revoke the Right Of Assembly?


The Radio America website has the only news story I've found in Honduras about the new "law" explained by police spokesperson Danilo Orellana to the gathered press at the Presidential Palace in Tegucigalpa today.

To recap, the law requires anyone who wants to organize a public rally, march, or meeting, to notify the police 24 hours in advance, and such notification must indicate the reason for the gathering, the identity of those organizing the event, the start and end time for the event, and in the case of a march, the route to be taken. Gatherings on public roadways must not block traffic.

The Radio America article goes on to explain that the measure is based on Article 62 of the constitution, articles 22 and 24 of the "Ley Organica de la Policia" and articles 1, 52, and 54 of the "Ley de Policia y Convivencia Ciudadana".

Hmm, lets examine the law they cite ..............

[EFerrari]

10. And the golpista Elections board has been to DC to sell their neutrality.

Right. In the process, they let slip that they've trained 100 odd election workers WITH US FUNDS.

http://www.reuters.com/article/latestCrisis/idUSN221243

What a farce.

[boppers]

32. Parade/event permits in the US.

We have the same thing here, while it doesn't prohibit assembly, it does complicate things a tad.

[L. Coyote]

5. Documentary on Honduras resistance = ONLINE now

http://www.indybay.org/newsitems/2009/10/22/18626374.php

This documentary "The young Honduran revolution" was made by me, Johannes Wilm, German-Danish activist. While working for the revolutionary Nicaraguan government I snuck across the border to Honduras in early August to document the resistance movement in the neighboring Central American republic, after a military coup had overthrown Leftist president Manuel Zelaya on June 28th.

By coincidence I document how for the first time in nearly thirty years the majority of students rise up against the police in a battle of 3000 students fighting police on the campus of the Autonomous University of Honduras in Tegucigalpa on August 5th.

The documentary shows where the student leaders come from, what their analysis of the current situation is, what plans they have for changing it, and what perspective for the future they see both for them personally and for the country at large. It is 90 minutes long and it is made in Spanish with English subtitles.

It is available to be seen online here:

http://www.archive.org/details/LaJovenRevolucionHondurena

It also has a Facebook-page here:

http://www.facebook.com/pages/La-Joven-Revolucion-Hondurena-The-Young-Honduran-Revolution/299251940113?ref=ts

It has so far been shown in various cities in the south west and in 12 countries in Latin America. It has been featured by a number of Latin American magazines and in the US by the Monthly Review and the Upside Down World site. It will be shown in Los Angeles at the "Human Rights Film Festival" on the 23rd of October and in San Diego at the City Heights Free Skool on the 24th, then in Hermosillo, Sonora where it will be shown to journalist students of Kino University on the 27th and to other students at the University of Sonora on the 29th. In Arizona where it will be shown amongst other places at the U of A on the 9th of November and at ASU in Phoenix on the 4th. At UC Berkley the SDS will present it at the end of November.

[L. Coyote]

6. What Micheletti wants: Recognition before Restitution

Thursday, October 22, 2009 - http://hondurascoup2009.blogspot.com/
What Micheletti wants: Recognition before Restitution


As published in La Tribuna, the latest "proposal" from the de facto regime, has been distributed at a press conference.

Apparently, it irritates the de facto regime that no one will agree they are a constitutional government; remember, what is offered here is intended for signature by Zelaya's representatives, who thus would be included in the "we" agreeing that the present claimed Executive branch is legitimate:

New Proposal of the Commission of the President, Roberto Micheletti

We recognize the legitimacy of the constituted powers, Executive, Legislative, Judicial, and the Supreme Electoral Tribunal (TSE) for having been conformed according to Articles 202, 205 points 9 and 11 of the Constitution of the Republic.

Recognizing that the different parties intervening in this dialogue have proposed different instances of public power, on the one hand, the Supreme Court, on the other, the National Congress, to decide about the pretension of the citizen, José Manuel Zelaya Rosales, we propose that the parties exercise their constitutional rights to petition before whoever is appropriate for support of the processual guarantees that the State of law would establish.

The preceding implies a commitment by the parties to put an end to the situation in which the country lives, as a consequence of this accord the parties would remain obligated and commited to support the electoral process already underway to the effect that the same will be realized in an atmosphere of order, tranquility, and transparency, legitimacy and full participation by the Honduran electorate, as has been agreed in the point relative to general elections and the transfer of government in the present accord.


Translation: we will never admit that you are the constitutional President. We will never agree which body of government has authority to rescind the actions we took on June 28. We insist that you go along with our assertion that we are having a free election so that it will be recognized internationally. That's why we forced you to sign that point of the accord first. We are the legitimate President because we interpret the constitution as we see fit. Good luck with getting anyone to support your claim that your rights were violated, but feel free to bring it to anyone you want.

The claimed Constitutional basis for this latest "proposal" cites Articles 202 and 205. These citations illustrate the degree to which simply shouting "Constitution" has become an empty symbolic gesture for the de facto regime.

Article 202 simply defines the makeup of Congress.

Article 205 sets out the duties and powers of Congress. Number 9 cites the role of Congress in naming the commission that nominates Supreme Court Justices.

Article 205, number 11 simply notes that that Congress names the Supreme Electoral Tribunal.

Update 3:10 PM PDT: Rodil Rivera, a negotiator for Manuel Zelaya, says "leaving out a few paragraphs", the proposal is within the framework of the San Jose Accord and is therefore negotiable. "We have studied it, we've analyzed it and now we'll go consult with President Zelaya" he added.

Negotiations to resume at the Hotel Clarion at 5 pm Tegucigalpa time.

[EFerrari]

8. According to the legal scholar that responded to that weird

Library of Congress "report", the Honduran Supreme Court had already ruled YEARS AGO that the legislature had no constitutional right to interpret the Constitution. I guess no one has pointed that out directly to Mierdaletti.

[L. Coyote]

13. Coup and Junta are slang for extra-legal and extra-Constitutional! There is little argument about

just how extra-legal and extra-Constitutional the current regime is.

Only they are self-delusional on this account, them and their co-conspiratorial Republican wingnut backers who set this up to try to paint Obama as a Chavista.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

9. I want a wall of solid gold. I don't think Mel or I are going to get our demands met by midnight.

A colleague pointed out that these bombastic style demands are almost de rigueur in Latin American politics. I tend to find them entertaining.

[EFerrari]

11. That's disgusting. n/t

[L. Coyote]

12. I want critical reasoning and intelligent discussion.

But hey, this is DU :rofl:

where Progressive is often just an empty word and anyone can be a Professor of whatever.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

18. So would I, but this is Latin American politcal position being shown on an international stage

[EFerrari]

23. You're mistaking your unselfconscious paternalism for objective reality.

Let alone, the facts of the situation such as the worldwide respect Zelaya has garnered with his conduct throughout this ordeal.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

25. Your solipsism is amazing

[L. Coyote]

26. Knowledge of anything outside your mind is unjustified, right?

Good of you to bring up the topic you are being accused of :rofl:

The solipsistic stance is denial of other mind's viewpoints while asserting "cogito ergo sum."

[ProgressiveProfessor]

29. You misunderstand the usage and context

[L. Coyote]

30. NOT

You're saying bombastic style demands in Latin American politics are entertaining,
as if the restoration of democracy is some idiotic idea, equivalent asking for a wall of gold.

YOU misunderstand the context is the overthrow of democracy, and demanding immediate restoration is demanded by the occasion.

[boppers]

33. I find bombastic victimhood entertaining, especially when it comes from elites.

This is, quite sadly, turning into a Honduran versions Limbuagh vs. Beck, lots of drama, with both trying to use claims of populism, and authority, to justify the extra-constitutional actions on both sides, with the Honduran public caught in-between.

The fact that people are actually dying, that there are riots and murders because of it... that's much less entertaining. It's horrifying.

[dipsydoodle]

14. Honduras discussions 'break down'

Source: BBC News

Envoys for ousted Honduran President Manuel Zelaya say talks with the interim government have broken down.

Mr Zelaya's team of negotiators had set a deadline of the end of Thursday for the interim government to agree to terms allowing his return to power.

However, negotiators for interim leader Roberto Micheletti said that although they had rejected the deadline they were still open to dialogue.

They said they would present a new proposal to Mr Zelaya on Friday.

Read more: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/8322228.stm

[L. Coyote]

15. This news is outdated as of yesterday.

Check the thread for developments after the Thursday deadline.
The situation continues to change and generate news every few hours.
The Junta has rejected the Friday midnight deadline conditions.

[L. Coyote]

16. Honduras lacks will for negotiated solution, says minister

Honduras lacks will for negotiated solution, says minister
(Source: IANS) Fri, 23 Oct 2009 at 22:29 IST - http://www.samaylive.com/news/honduras-lacks-will-for-negotiated-solution-says-minister/663952.html


Tegucigalpa: A representative of ousted Honduran president Manuel Zelaya has said the country's de facto government lacks political will for a negotiated solution to the conflict.
Work Minister Mayra Mejia, one of Zelaya's three representatives who participated in the talks, said Friday the dialogue process has been "exhausted".

"This phase is used up. We are going to continue with other actions," Mejia said.

Oct 15 was Zelaya's initial deadline to find a negotiated solution .....

[L. Coyote]

17. Next: A Popular Referendum for a New Honduras Constitution?

Next: A Popular Referendum for a New Honduras Constitution?
Posted by Al Giordano - October 23, 2009 at 8:34 am - http://narcosphere.narconews.com/thefield/3555/next-popular-referendum-new-honduras-constitution


Reporting throughout Honduras over the past 118 days of resistance to the coup d’etat, we heard the same thing from the people on the ground wherever we went: That whether or not President Manuel Zelaya returns to the post he was elected to serve, that whether or not “elections” happen on November 29, that whether or not the world views them as legitimate, all of that is secondary to the people’s primary demand: for a new Constitution and a constituent assembly (“constituente”) of elected representatives from every sector of society to write it democratically.

A little bird flew by my window this morning - the date the "talks" for a negotiated solution to the Honduras coup definitively broke down and ended - and suggested the following strategy idea, one that has been under discussion in important corners of the Honduran civil resistance: Why wait for an illegitimate regime’s permission to hold the referendum that the coup was designed to stop?

The coup was held on June 28 precisely to stop a non-binding referendum – one that asked if Hondurans wanted the right to vote for or against a new Constitution – but the regime’s own insistence on holding faux “elections” on November 29 inadvertently provides the people with the opportunity to do the very thing the coup was intended to stop: To put up ballot boxes outside of every “official” polling place and survey the people on that original question.

Now that the Honduran civil resistance and its diverse social movements are so much better organized in every town and city than ever before ....................

[Judi Lynn]

19. Casualties of the ‘Bloodless’ Coup

October 23, 2009
Casualties of the ‘Bloodless’ Coup
No matter what prominent U.S. apologists say, the military takeover of Honduras was—and is—violent and unjust.
By Jeremy Kryt

Many apologists for the thuggish takeover of the elected government in Honduras still claim that what happened last June 28 was a “bloodless” coup. In a Wall Street Journal editorial on October 10, U.S. Senator Jim DeMint (R-S.C.) went one step further, denying there even is a political crisis here, and referring to the ousting of President Mel Zelaya as a “supposed military ‘coup.’”

But the hundreds of peaceful demonstrators who have been brutally beaten since the putsch might disagree with adjectives like “supposed” and “bloodless.” As might the family of Jairo Sanchez, the most recent victim of government-sponsored violence, who after weeks of drifting in and out of consciousness, died in the capital on Monday, October 19.

According to the report prepared by the Committee for the Families of the Disappeared in Honduras (COFADEH), Sanchez, a 38-year-old husband and father, was shot in the face during a police raid against unarmed marchers on September 30. Three other peaceful demonstrators were critically wounded in the same attack. Apparently none of this well-documented violence made an impression on DeMint. The senator recently returned from a brief visit to Tegucigalpa, were he’d been the guest of the same political elites who worked with the military to orchestrate the putsch. “As all strong democracies do after cleansing themselves, Honduras has moved on,” DeMint opined.

During his visit, Honduras was under martial law, independent media were shuttered and police and soldiers attacked peaceful protestors just blocks from the Senator’s hotel. Yet upon returning home, DeMint reported “there is no chaos there,” that like the coup itself, this is all merely “supposed.”

Honduras was plunged into this “supposed” chaos last summer, when soldiers exiled Zelaya and presented a false letter of abdication to Congress on national television. In the same ceremony, far-right political veteran Roberto Micheletti was installed as a puppet to head the civilian government.

More:
http://www.inthesetimes.com/article/5084/casualties_of_the_bloodless_coup/

[L. Coyote]

20. ZELAYA: Conditions in Honduras not right for elections

Conditions in Honduras not right for elections: Zelaya
www.chinaview.cn 2009-10-24 12:32:45 - http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2009-10/24/content_12313964.htm


MANAGUA, Oct. 23 (Xinhua) -- Ousted Honduran President Manuel Zelaya said Friday that conditions in Honduras were not right to hold the presidential elections on Nov. 29.

In an urgent note issued by the Honduran embassy in Managua, Zelaya said that the de facto government in Honduras was still internationally isolated and thus it was not viable to hold presidential elections.

"The problem is that the de facto regime is not recognized by the world, which makes part of the crisis," Zelaya explained. "The regime has to understand that I am an exit to the crisis, not a problem, and the presidential restitution is essential for (holding) elections in peace.

"To have an electoral process under these circumstances is almost the same as elections in Afghanistan under blood and fire," he asserted. "The Hondurans, the Central American people and Americas do not want a democracy with violence."

Zelaya also condemned the acts of violence that occurred in his country this week, mainly bombs on commercial centers in Tegucigalpa, capital of Honduras.

"We do not support violence, and I condemn these sabotages," he declared. ............

[UTUSN]

31. HaHAH "conditions not right for elections" - HAH!1 They wouldn't be if he were IN, for sure!1 n/t

[L. Coyote]

21. Delegation of Carter Center arrives in Honduras

Delegation of Carter Center arrives in Honduras
www.chinaview.cn 2009-10-24 - http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2009-10/24/content_12313937.htm


TEGUCIGALPA, Oct. 23 -- The delegation of the Carter Center Friday arrived in the Honduran capital to promote a prompt settlement of the political crisis in the country.

The Carter Center, led by former U.S. President Jimmy Carter, said on Friday in a statement that the delegation was accompanied by the "Friends of the Inter-American Democratic Charter," which is composed of former presidents, prime ministers, and Cabinet ministers from the Western Hemisphere who seek to promote democracy.

"The mission came to Honduras to directly know about the situation in the country and to promote and support a prompt negotiated exit from the political crisis," it said.

The delegation is formed by former Guatemalan Vice President Eduardo Stein, former Guatemalan Foreign Minister Jorge Santistevan, Carter Center's Director for the Americas Jennifer McCoy and Assistant Director for the Americas Marcelo Varela.

However, Friday's negotiations failed to achieve any progress ..............

[EFerrari]

24. This is really good news and I hope Jimmy Carter continues

to help shine a light on Honduras.

[L. Coyote]

22. Honduran people demand ‘No elections without President Zelaya’

On 113th day of resistance
Honduran people demand ‘No elections without President Zelaya’
Published Oct 23, 2009 11:49 PM - http://www.workers.org/2009/world/honduras_1029/

By Teresa Gutierrez
member of U.S. delegation in Honduras

Oct. 19—This article is being written on the 113th day of resistance by the Honduran people against the illegal military coup that ousted democratically elected President Manuel Zelaya.

Despite military and police repression, a ban on civil liberties and the shutdown of several radio stations and news agencies, the people continue to resist, demanding the restoration of Zelaya as well as a Constitutional Assembly. The pivotal demand that the previously scheduled Nov. 29 general elections not occur unless Zelaya is restored to government gathers momentum around the world.

Organizers of the resistance describe the country’s climate as a “calm tension”—calm because the presence of Organization of American States officials buys the people a little space.

The criminal, fraudulent Micheletti coup regime calculates that repression must be tempered in the face of international bodies. Even so, when protesters heroically gather at the Clarion Hotel, where the OAS discussions take place, troops wave their hefty batons and explode tear gas.

.................

[L. Coyote]

27. Fire the Learned - Honduras - an Interview with Darío Euraque = w/PODCAST

Fire the Learned - Honduras - an Interview with Darío Euraque
Calvin Sloan --- 4 pages --- OpEdNews: http://www.opednews.com/articles/Fire-the-Learned--Hondura-by-Calvin-Sloan-091019-188.html


On October 19th 2009, the University of Texas at Austin held a forum regarding the coup d'état in Honduras entitled: “Military Coup or Constitutional Succession.” With the help of the UT staff, I was able to interview – in an unrehearsed, amature manner I have to admit – one of the keynote speakers of the event, Darío Euraque.

Prior to the forceful removal of President Zelaya on June 28th, Doctor Euraque served as the Director of the Honduran Institute of Anthropology and History. When holding the position, he pursued a more egalitarian view of what defined Honduran culture. Elitist regimes seek to consolidate, not diversify power, and any exaltations of equality are viewed as threatening, and thus Euraque was removed from the IHAH.

Costa Rican historian, Victor Hugo Acuña Ortega has labeled the firing as “a deed with dire consequences for the culture, historic patrimony, and scientific research in Honduras.“

I sat down with Doctor Euraque to discuss the state of affairs in Honduras today, the historical struggle for a fair constitution, and why Americans would be unwise to remain apathetic to the coup d'état:

Podcast --- http://www.divshare.com/download/8960004-62a

Calvin Sloan: You were the former director of IHAH – can you explain what that is?

....................

[L. Coyote]

28. In the latest bizarre turn in the Honduran coup ....

More on the Honduran constitutional crisis
October 23, 8:02 PM - Andrew E. Mathis
http://www.examiner.com/x-14373-Progressive-Geopolitics-Examiner~y2009m10d23-More-on-the-Honduran-constitutional-crisis




In the latest bizarre turn in the Honduran coup and its aftermath, negotiators for de facto President Roberto Micheletti have offered to ousted former President Manuel Zelaya that the legislature of the country decide whether he should be given the presidency again.

So now the Honduran junta is apparently agreeing to Zelaya's demand of just last week.

Why would Micheletti's negotiators cave in? What leverage does Zelaya have? Andrew E. Mathis

Well, as I wrote in the above-linked Examiner.com article, he has none, and as the AP story linked to above that points out, he'll likely lose on such a referendum, if it goes to the legislature.

So what's really confusing is that the Micheletti junta is offering a third option to Zelaya — Micheletti will step down, and a third party will serve as president of the country until Zelaya's originally elected term expires. That would be in about three months.

It's actually rather clever, when you back away from it for a second. The junta has called for a presidential election on November 29 of this year. If Zelaya accepts this option of a third party taking over the presidency, then the election doesn't come until probably early February.

......................

[boppers]

34. Interesting article...

Good find! The only glaring problem with it is that it equates very, very, different national constitutions. The US constitution is quite minimal, Honduras, much less so.

[yurbud]

35. I think Obama is holding his breath on this and other issues until healthcare reform is done

then he better unequivocally come down on the side of democracy.