2 Die and 16 Are Sickened at Spa in Arizona -- Hyperthermia in a sweat lodge

[steven johnson]

Source: NY Times


Two people died and an estimated 19 others were taken to hospitals after being overcome while sitting in the sauna-like sweat lodge at Angel Valley Retreat Center, near Sedona, Ariz.

The dead and injured were part of a group of about 48 people who were taking part in a ceremony on Thursday evening inside a sweat lodge resembling a large sauna at the Angel Valley Retreat Center in Sedona, the red-rocks-clustered resort town about 115 miles north of Phoenix. Officials with the Verde Valley fire department said Friday that the event had been going on for about two hours when several people fell sick, complaining of feeling light-headed.

When emergency crews arrived about 5:20 p.m., they found four people in such bad condition that they were flown to Flagstaff Medical Center, and about 14 others were in need of treatment, the authorities said. Two of the sick — identified only as a man and a woman — later died. Officials had not released the cause of their deaths as of Friday night.

That evening, at least three people were still listed in critical condition at Flagstaff Medical Center, the authorities said.



Read more: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/10/us/10spa.html?hp

[imdjh]

1. I think some people would eat dog shit if a guy named Sven or an Indian told them to.

[depakid]

13. How about a former ATT sales manager turned self help author

who you paid over $9,000 to!

The victims were attending the ceremony during the final day of a five-day program called "Spiritual Warrior," which Ray has conducted at the resort annually since 2003. Ray's Web site lists the cost for next year's program at $9,695 per person.

Ray's program brochure promises participants will push themselves past their "self-imposed and conditioned borders" and "learn (and apply) the awesome power of 'integrity of action.' " It describes the sweat lodge as "a ceremonial sauna involving tight, enclosed spaces and intense temperatures."

Ray, a frequent guest on TV talk shows, calls himself "a personal-success strategist," and his Web site details a sampler of international spiritual philosophies that he has fused into his program.

His book, "Harmonic Wealth," contends that one can become a millionaire through spiritual study.

More: http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/news/articles/2009/10/10/20091010sweatlodge1010.html

[Altoid_Cyclist]

14. Does this qualify as manslaughter or does the mindless sheep like

behavior of the victims absolve everyone of blame?

I'm sorry for the families, but what the hell were these people thinking?
I used to enjoy a sauna for short periods of time, but I got the hell out if I started feeling light headed or had trouble breathing. Since my heart attack, I wouldn't go near a sauna and a sauna isn't as bad as a sweat lodge.

The human race is becoming more stupid as the technology becomes more advanced.

[Xipe Totec]

15. I would call this culling the herd n/t

[Altoid_Cyclist]

22. This is probably cruel when people have died,

but I just keep thinking about the bumper stickers that say "Stupid people shouldn't breed".

Your remark was 100% accurate. I never realized how many sheeple this country had until the idiot son moved in.
Come on America :think:

[Lagomorph]

70. Extreme sports, extreme this, extreme that...

...extreme dead.

[shadowknows69]

20. Bet he has a real tight "freedom from liability" paper they sign too.

[onager]

29. Harmonic Wealth?

:rofl:

Is "Harmonic" the new "Quantum?"

[question everything]

66. And to think how much good those $9,000 times

60, or so, could have done for people who are really suffering.

[SpiralHawk]

17. This jerk was not Indian - he was a money-grubbing slickster who...

was mimicking a powerful Native Ceremony to make money. This Fast Operator definitely had a Wicked Bad Case of Republiconism in his Soul.

Traditional elders have long warned: do not fool around with Big Medicine, and do not exploit traditional ways for money.

To earn the right to pour water in the Metachan (Purification Lodge) one must undergo years of training, and rigorous spiritual discipline.

[L. Coyote]

28. was paid up to $9,000 per person for this event!

In other words, he was selecting really stupid people!!

[pattmarty]

24. How about a guy named "Beck" or "Hannity"????

[Bobbieo]

2. Several years ago we had an outdoor spa for my arthritis. I never could

stand water temperatures over 100 degrees even in the cold weather. Sweat lodge - forget it.

[Devil_Fish]

3. darwin award nom. eom

[grahamhgreen]

4. Let's hope they found what they were looking for....

[tomm2thumbs]

5. sad

but I prefer 'Sweatin' to the Oldies' - every time I hear it, I think of the GOP running up stairs in the Capitol building wondering how low their numbers will be today

[Rapier09]

6. God damn Spa

Never going in one again.

[Bobbieo]

7. A sweat lodge is not a spa - rocks are heated in an enclosed area and water splashed

on them to create steam.

[lildreamer316]

77. Whomever was responsible for this one didn't know what they were doing.

In another report about this; the 'lodge' was a makeshift tent (from the picture I'm guessing that was the basic structure) covered in PLASTIC and BLANKETS.

Usually Native American lodges are made of branches and covered with animal skins or something breathable.

They also had a TON of ppl in there. Usually NA lodges have 8 to 12 in at one time. The report said too many people would have been fighting over a limited amount of oxygen.


http://www.news.com.au/story/0,27574,26194358-401,00.html

[Bette Noir]

8. There are two ways I don't want to die: painful and stupid.

These two died stupid. I hope the others will recover fully.

[Ex Lurker]

9. a lot of loopy people in Sedona n/t

[Bobbieo]

11. My son has gone through the sweat lodge ceremony but it is not for everyone,

particularly people with respiratory problems. I'm an asthmatic.

[KamaAina]

32. One of John McCain's five houses is there

Q.E.D.

[WyLoochka]

74. Actually that house is in Page Springs

not Sedona.

Page Springs is not upscale, nor is it full of "new agers," and it's quite a distance from the spectacular red rock cliffs.

[hmorehead]

10. A lot of loopy people everywhere, but with as far as whacky can get,

a schvitz is pretty acceptable. They could have been Minutemen Militia dead in the Sonoran chasing illegals. Now thats some loopy folks in the right wng militias and Arizona has its share of loopy right wingers.

[Arctic Dave]

12. This sucks. I love sitting in a hot tub or sauna in the winter. :(

[droidamus2]

16. Personally

I like the set up I came across with some friends of mine. They new a couple that had built their own 'suana' in the Redwoods of northern California. A small room with a potbelly stove as the heat, throw a little water on there and you definitely got some heat. What was different is that they had an old bathtub at one end of the 'sauna' that was filled with ice cold spring water so if you got to feeling too hot you would just jump into the tub. Talk about invigorating!

[HereSince1628]

18. Yep, love the banya, when the nights are long

Actually, love the banya when it never gets dartk, too.

[imdjh]

31. If I'm going to sweat bullets, I want a tidy lawn or pile of brush to show for it. nt

[lildreamer316]

78. Check upthread..this one was made incorrectly. n/t

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

19. I got dragged to a sweat lodge by an ex-girlfriend

Fuck that sucked, I had to run out and puke after 15 minutes. Nothing like the stench of burning wood and sulfur to cleanse and relax.

[shadowknows69]

23. I'll bet you don't sweat on Shabbos

[L. Coyote]

27. There is no burning wood or sulfer in a sweat lodge.

You should be more discerning about where people drag you!

[stray cat]

21. Not clear yet why they died - they are still looking into it - don't rule out fungal inhalation

[xchrom]

26. ew. nt

[CanonRay]

25. "Spiritual Warrior" sounds like an offshoot of The Family

So does becoming rich by becoming spiritual.

[ljm2002]

86. It's an offshoot of "The Secret"...

...it was run by a guy whose last name is Ray, and who was quoted extensively in that book.

[kestrel91316]

30. Hyperthermia in a sweat lodge. No one could have predicted THAT.

[Critters2]

72. My thought exactly. nt

[lildreamer316]

83. Please see my other posts..this structure was made incorrectly. One

is not supposed to get so hot one gets into a hyperthermic state.

[Odin2005]

33. Woo kills.

[mopinko]

73. +1 nt

[bemildred]

34. They ought to check for infectious agents.

Sounds like a great place for thing to grow and spread from person to person.

[Blue_Tires]

35. 2 dead after hours in Ariz. sweat lodge identified

Source: AP

PRESCOTT, Ariz. – Two people who died after sitting for hours in an Arizona spiritual resort's sauna-like sweat lodge were identified Saturday as a 40-year-old Wisconsin man and a 38-year-old New York woman.

James Shore of Milwaukee and Kirby Brown of Westtown, N.Y. died Thursday night after being overcome in a sweat lodge during a spiritual cleansing ceremony. Nineteen others were taken to area hospitals, suffering from burns, dehydration, respiratory arrest, kidney failure or elevated body temperature. Most were soon released, but one remained in critical condition on Saturday.

Authorities haven't determined what caused the deaths and illnesses, but ruled out carbon monoxide poisoning.

Yavapai County Sheriff Steve Waugh said Saturday his detectives are focusing on self-help expert and author James Arthur Ray and his staff as they try to determine if criminal negligence played a role in the deaths. Waugh said Ray refused to speak with authorities and has since left the state. No charges have been filed.

"We will continue this investigation down every road that is possible to find out if there is culpability on anybody relative to the deaths of these individuals," Waugh said.

He said it could be three to four weeks before they knew if criminal charges would be filed.

The resort is owned by Michael and Amayra Hamilton, who have declined to comment.

Ray's most recent posting on his Twitter account said he was "shocked and saddened" by the tragedy.



Read more: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091010/ap_on_re_us/us_sweat_lodge_deaths;_ylt=AmzstT16Z5EdbKQ1.Mmec.lH2ocA;_ylu=X3oDMTE1Y3M3cW43BHBvcwMzBHNlYwN5bi1jaGFubmVsBHNsawMyZGVhZGFmdGVyaG8-

[virgogal]

36. Why on earth would anyone subject themselves to this?

[imdjh]

38. How else are you going to see the spirits/aliens?

[Garbo 2004]

41. This was about increasing "spirituality" and WEALTH. "The Secret" sort of thing.

James Arthur Ray's site: http://jamesray.com

It's a combination of "New Age" hucksterism and old age greed legitimized by his appearances in mainstream media: "James Arthur Ray has made multiple appearances on The Oprah Winfrey Show and Larry King Live, and is a recurring guest on NBC's top-rated national morning show, Today. He has been featured in numerous publications, both regionally and nationally, including a feature article in a March 2009 issue of The New York Times on the growing success of his Harmonic Wealth Weekends and an April 2008 profile in Fortune Magazine."

The OP's article notes Ray wrote on his Twitter account, "I am spending the weekend in prayer and meditation for all involved in this difficult time; and I ask you to join me in doing the same."

You can bet he's spending the weekend in deep "meditation" with his attorneys.

[underpants]

45. Eh, as a runner I can "get this" a little bit

a part of anything like this is putting your body through something for no real reason to see what you mind (and spirit) do in the process. How it reacts. How it changes.

Just saying

[izquierdista]

37. An Arizona sweat lodge??

That could describe any apartment in Phoenix.

[imdjh]

39. But it's DRY heat! nt

[Oldtimeralso]

55. Dry Heat! So Is An Oven! n/t

[SpiralHawk]

56. The Inipi (purification lodge) is wet heat, not dry heat

When done properly -- by a qualified intercessor -- the lodge is big and beautiful Medicine that has been used safely and successfully for thousands of years.

Ray was apparently an unqualified exploiter who was selling the Medicine. Right there -- the fact that he was selling it -- poisons it.

[Hekate]

69. That sounds right to me--everything I have read about it indicates that you are right.

This guy was bogus from the get-go and people died for it.

Hekate

[Hekate]

71. Cultural imperialism can get you into trouble

My negative experience was in the early 1990s with a New Agey trance channeler who shall remain nameless. I was not part of her flock -- I actually signed on to be her office manager and lasted about 3 months. In the meantime, I got to experience what she did on retreats in the Rocky Mountains.

I have to admit that I had some jaw-dropping personal experiences with her during that week, but I was also uneasy with her self-assurance in case after case. I still don't have words for what happened during one afternoon's group session, but such an unbelievable explosion of dark energy left through the top of my skull that if *I* had been in charge I would have sent me off to go lie flat on the ground under a tree until I had literally become grounded and centered again. (Hubby later said it was like watching The Exorcist.) Instead, after it was over and she was assured I was back or conscious or something, she sent me up the hill to go see that lunch was ready -- because, after all, I was an employee. :wow:

I was reminded of this exchange from Shakespeare's Henry IV:
Owen Glendower, boasting of his powers: "I can call monsters from the vasty deep." Hotspur's skeptical reply: "Why so can I and so can any man, but will they come when you do call for them?"

In her case, the spirits came alright, but I don't think they were necessarily what she thought they were.

As for the sweat lodge experience, there were only about 10 or 12 of us altogether, and we built the thing so that it had some air exchange. It's just that even as I participated in its construction I had the uneasy feeling that it might not be for me. I just gamely carried on, figuring that I wouldn't have another chance to have experiences like this, so what the hell. I should have listened to my instincts.

One of the things that was interesting was that during this week we had one gen-yoo-wine Native American aboard -- the all around handyman that she had picked up at some job camp along the way. Besides me, he was the only other person not paying lots of money for this thing. Can't remember his name, but he was a nice guy from Oregon or Washington, with an ex-wife and 5 kids back home. He told me the next day that he knew I was in trouble in that sweat lodge, and he was really worried for me. God love him, I hope he's okay wherever he might be. And God only knows what he thought of the goings-on at that retreat. :eyes:

In theory I wouldn't mind trying it again, only with a wise-man or wise-woman of some lineage I could understand -- because if they were that wise they'd understand when someone was not ready for this.

Whew.

Hekate

[lildreamer316]

79. Check upthread..the lodge was covered in PLASTIC and blankets. Duh.

And they packed a ton of ppl in it..not supposed to have more than 12 at a time, as I've been told and always heard.

[Xipe Totec]

42. Wisconsin and New York...

Not exactly ideal places where you could acclimate to high temperatures...

I would try Baltimore Maryland first, then South Carolina, then maybe Oklahoma, before trying to see if I could handle Arizona...

[glinda]

50. no lie. I am in MN. and I cannot take the heat at all.

[saigon68]

59. Northern WI It is 21 Degrees F this AM

[a la izquierda]

51. Seriously...

Oklahoma summers are totally brutal. It's not often one escapes to Mexico to get away from weeks straight of 100+ temps, plus humidity!

[No Elephants]

58. October is no longer summer, though. The body has been preparing for winter, whatever that

usually means.

One of my friends had Hodgkins. Her doctor would not let her travel from NY to her sister's in Florida until the weather in NY was about as warm. He said acclimating back and forth strained her body too much.. (Sadly, she died before she saw 30 anyway.)

[No Elephants]

57. LOL!

[earcandle]

40. I've joined at least three sweat lodges here in N. Calif. and no one had problems.

No spirits expected, just a lightheaded super sauna.  

Now the Jurema trip on a houseboat up in Mount Shasta was
something entirely different.
Lots of dna swirling and prophetical announcements, for
sure.... but no danger experienced. 

Sad.  They say women shouldn't sweat lodge during
menstruation.  IN fact, they are not allowed in.

I wonder if they were smokers, or had other respiratory
weaknesses that might have caused the deaths.

Hmmmmmmm... terrible news. 

[Hekate]

47. Given that so many others had burns and heat exhaustion, I'd say malpractice was involved...

My only sweat lodge experience was terrifying. I have claustrophobia, it turns out, I was quite blind due to leaving my glasses outside in my shoes (I don't have 20-20 vision, it was more like 20-1100, for real--this was a decade before my LASIK surgery), and when I entered and then asked to leave I was told I had to stay. My fellow participants were asked to visualize protective spirits over my shoulders and of course they saw them.

There are frauds and hucksters along the way in every spiritual path, sad to say. There are also genuinely spiritual people: priests, shamans, priestesses, monks, wise men and wise women who share what they know with others. It looks like the folks on retreat in Arizona stumbled onto one of the former.

Hekate

[Tumbulu]

54. My only sweat lodge experience was horrible

and I thought at the time- people could die doing this- myself being the first to go. I hope to never do that again. Other people seemed to just love it, I did not understand what they saw in it. And it took hours, and you were not supposed to leave....not for me and clearly not for many people. There were no drugs at the sweat lodge and only women.

[pitohui]

63. you weren't allowed to leave? how awful

i've heard of other bad sweats for instance back when this stuff was a real fad (late 80s) some of my male friends did an all male sweat lodge and from the sound of it there was some serious ego involved

no one wanted to admit that they were sick and overheating but one of the guys was noticeably underweight (in recovery from drugs) and he finally broke and left -- no one restrained him from leaving -- in fact the other guys then felt free to leave too -- they were all getting overheated and ended up vomiting but no one wanted to be the guy who "broke" first i guess

potentially a dangerous situation if you asked me, if no one's ego had allowed him to speak up that he was becoming overheated

it made me wonder about the sanity of doing a single sex sweat, esp. for males, if your ego can get invested in outlasting the other guy and seeing better visions than the other guy

[Blue_Tires]

48. did the time of two hours seem too much to you, or is it mostly normal?

[earcandle]

68. I don't think mine was that long. Esalen hosted the first one, Harbin the second. No one was hurt.

two hours does seem like a long term. 

[lildreamer316]

80. No..the lodge was constructed incorrectly.

It was covered in plastic and blankets. Over 64 ppl inside.

[havocmom]

43. 55-65 people in a 415 square foot sweat lodge, what could possibly go wrong?

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2009/10/09/national/a093921D00.DTL&tsp=1#ixzz0TZL8FiMh

...
Ray rented the resort to hold a five-day "Spiritual Warrior" retreat that promised to "absolutely change your life." Ray has held similar retreats at the resort in the past. Participants, whose ages ranged from 30 to the 60s, paid between $9,000 and $10,000 to attend this year's event.

Between 55 and 65 people were crowded into the 415-square-foot sweat lodge during a two-hour period that consisted of eight 15-minute rounds and various spiritual exercises led by Ray, Waugh said. After each round, the flap to the crudely constructed structure was raised to allow more heated rocks to be brought inside.

Looks like the spiritual guru packed 'em in, took the money and blew town.

I had a 920 sq ft apt in Tucson. I wouldn't have tried 20 people in that space with the air conditioner running.

And the sheriff let him leave town? :wtf: Can't legal authorities keep persons of interest in town for the duration of an investigation?

[imdjh]

44. beans?

[havocmom]

46. Not even funny. They had been fasting

Electrolytes low most likely. Likely not enough water, especially if many were from a more humid climate. People new to AZ often do not appreciate how much water they loose just breathing.

Then, there is the problem of breathing in that small a space with so many people.

Guy running it is a greedy son of a bastard. Wonder how much of the loot he had to offer to get out of town so fast.

[glinda]

49. that and peyote_schrooms a good possibility

[a la izquierda]

52. Unless they ate too much peyote...

it won't contribute to death. In fact, if one is fasting, it will actually help get them through it.

Mushrooms are another story. I have no clue what the purpose of them is except to make people trip.

[glinda]

65. There are plenty of trendy "wannabes' doing this sort of thing out there. And there

are just as many suckers paying for it. Don't assume that they knew what they were doing.

[a la izquierda]

87. Ugh, tell me about it...

Carlos Castaneda did a bad thing, for myriad reasons....

[glinda]

90. ummm...more like "guilt" and inability to find one's self. It is really sad.

[CountAllVotes]

60. what makes you think they were eating peyote?

FYI peyote is never eaten in sweat lodges. It requires a full ceremony that last approx. 12-16 hrs. in a tipi. Many people sweat in a sweat lodge before participating in a peyote ceremony which is run by a medicine man from the Native American Church, not some fake wannabe. :mad:

:kick:

[depakid]

67. Peyote is also an emetic

meaning that many folks end up puking. Considering how foul they taste, it's a wonder people manage to get them down at all.

[thecrow]

62. At even $5000 per person he made $325,000 in 10 days

They said $9000-$10K was charged per person.
Part of his "warrior" training probably included sparse accommodations
frugal food.... or NO FOOD! Yipee! and the guy makes $32,500 per day.
Shuckster? Yeah... I believe many of these "upper management" types
get a big head about themselves and that there's only one way to go and that is to get richer and richer and that somehow makes them a success.

I was going to comment upthread that this guy had too much "corporate speak" the know what the hell he was doing on a practical level. They just speak that way so the rest of us humans will want to find out what the secret is. When I hear Corporate Speak i run for the hills. This case exemplifies that this guy wasn't talking even Corporate Speak... he was talking Bullshit.
I wonder if he also took out dead peasant insurance on his "guests"?

[CountAllVotes]

64. hook him up with the late Michael Jackson's doctor

"doctor" ... :eyes: :mad:

:kick:

[Liberal_in_LA]

85. if 60 people were in that hut, that's 7 square feet per person! a square about 2. 6 feet a side

That's a tiny bit of space!

[AtheistCrusader]

53. "sitting"

sure.

[question everything]

61. Questions About ‘Sweat Lodge’ Rite Where 2 Died

(snip)

The Yavapai County sheriff, Steve Waugh, said at a news conference on Saturday that his detectives were investigating the possibility of criminal negligence in connection with the incident. He said that from 55 to 65 people were gathered inside the lodge on Thursday afternoon for the purification ceremony. Joseph Bruchac, an expert on Native American traditions and author of “The Native American Sweat Lodge,” said that number far surpassed the 8 to 12 typically present at such a rite. “It means that all these people are fighting for the same oxygen,” he said. The lodge itself was only four and a half feet tall at its highest point, Mr. Waugh said.

A sweat lodge, similar to a sauna, is an enclosed space where water is poured on heated rocks. Such structures are often used in Native American ceremonies and are intended to cleanse the body. Traditional lodges are usually made of willow branches and covered in canvas or animal skins, and are not meant to be air-tight. The authorities said that the lodge at Angel Valley was covered in plastic and blankets. The people, some of whom paid more than $9,000, were taking part in a program called "Spiritual Warrior, " which was being run by the self-help expert James Arthur Ray. They had been inside the lodge for more than two hours when emergency calls were made about 5 p.m. Friday, the Verde Valley Fire Department said.

Questions have also arisen about the length of time the people were in the lodge — about two hours. A ceremony usually lasts no more than an hour, Mr. Bruchac said. Investigators said that a test for hazardous materials showed no evidence of carbon monoxide or other airborne poisons at the lodge, though they said they were still testing blood samples for evidence of toxic substances.

(snip)


http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/11/us/11lodge.html

[Blue_Tires]

75. isn't someone supposed to monitor the first-timers as a precaution??

[lildreamer316]

82. Numerous things wrong:

1) 64 ppl in a very small space (400sq ft? I think - give or take)
2) structure makeshift and covered with plastic and blankets..NA tradition is wooden structure covered with canvas or pelts
3) no one really monitoring; like you said

[CountAllVotes]

76. just heard on CNN the death toll is up to 7 now

not so funny and I guess the getting rich and realizing wealth extraordinarie did not work. :eyes:

[lildreamer316]

81. OMG!!! n/t

[Cal Carpenter]

88. I've looked for a source for that

and I don't see it on CNN's website or anywhere else...

Can you confirm if this is true? I don't have tv.

[CountAllVotes]

91. it was on the CNN crawler earlier today (this a.m.)

haven't seen it since either myself. :shrug:

:dem:

[Bo]

84. Looks like he will practicing The Secret Ways of Prison

I cannot believe the idiot has not been arrested yet. If it had been one of us common man types we would have been locked up immediately

[Zorra]

89. If you paid for something "spiritual", you bought snake oil.

The stuff can kill you if you swallow it.

Best not to participate in a ceremonial sweat unless an experienced Indian person is running the sweat.

The idea of some wealthy yuppie snake oil salesman running a "sweat" is pretty scary.