Americans Drop Out of Labor Force, Posing Risks for Bush, Fed

[UpInArms]

http://quote.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=10000103&sid=aEUT7DAoLUZ8&refer=us

March 8 (Bloomberg) -- Anthony Whitmore lost his job as a die press operator at Midland Steel Products in Cleveland 10 months ago and holds little hope of finding work. In Chester, Pennsylvania, Chris Rabzak, a former aerospace engineer with a law degree, is stretching out his master's program in business administration rather than jumping into the labor market.

``Every month some economist comes out and says that next month or next year things will get better -- I don't believe them anymore,'' said Rabzak, 36. ``In this economy, I'm not optimistic about finding a job,'' said Whitmore, 40.

Rabzak and Whitmore are among the 1.6 million Americans who have dropped out of U.S. workforce in the past year. The percentage of those working or looking for jobs has skidded for four years and fell in February to 65.9 percent, a 16-year low, the Labor Department said Friday in Washington. Last month, 588,000 people left the labor force as the economy created just 21,000 jobs, a sixth of the median forecast in a Bloomberg News survey of 65 economists.

...more...

[opihimoimoi]

1. So much for the Prez's promise of more jobs via the TAX CUT

He is full of it. Jobs my ass.

[Skittles]

2. how do you pay your bills when you "drop out of the labor force"

I mean, really, I'd think for most of us dropping out is not an option.

[Lithos]

3. Usually comes from spouses

(n/t)

[davhill]

4. I dropped out

After my unemployment compensation ran out, I started cashing in my 401k. That should get me through until I can start getting early social security next year when I turn 62. I am a software developer with a MS and thirty years of C and C++ Windows programming experience. If things get really bad I will be applying at my local McDonald's.

[UpInArms]

5. this is just my opinion

but here is a possible scenario -

if the person that has "dropped from the labor force" had a long credit history and plenty of those "pre-approved" cards in their pockets, after going through any available savings accounts while relying upon a still-working spouse or family member, what you would see is that there's a long period of time that passes before completely defaulting - a slow erosion into unmanageable debt -

Even if you can only pay your house payment every 60 days, many banks continue to work with borrowers for a long time before foreclosure proceedings begin - the number of mortages that are in the category of behind in payments (I know there's a better term, but old-timers is striking me at this moment) - is on the rise.

Last week the consumer credit report showed a jump to $14+ billion - with the market anticipating around $5 billion - that was a very bad sign.

[mn9driver]

6. These guys have worked for a few years.

They likely have 401K's, credit cards and home equity lines. At the end of two or three years when everything is tapped out and the bank is knocking on the door, they'll declare bankruptcy, lose the house and go to work at WalMart or some equally dismal job.

I've got a couple neighbors who creeping down that sad road right now.

[KansDem]

12. "they'll declare bankruptcy"

Its bad enough to lose your house, but with bad credit, it'll be difficult to find a decent place to live. So many apartment complexes require credit checks these days before they'll rent/lease you an apartment, that people with "bad credit" will have fewer choices of where they'll live.

Also, "bad credit" limits potential job opportunities since more and more companies won't hire someone who doesn't have good credit. I suppose the logic is: if you have bad credit, then you will steal from the employer. (not my concept)

It's a vicious circle...

[mn9driver]

13. The primary homeless shelter in Minneapolis

is run by a fine woman named Monica Nilsson. She wrote an editorial in yesterday's Star Tribune that reveals many of their "clients" as working poor who can't get their own roof for just these sorts of reasons. An excerpt:

"...8 p.m. -- Ron is waiting for the ironing board. He has to get up at 4 a.m. to catch a bus to Bloomington to catch a ride to work. Mornings are always busy at Toro in Lakeville. He tells Sarah to hurry up, but Sarah pays no attention; she has to be in Edina early, too -- tomorrow's the 13-hour sale. Luis asks for all his money. He's found an apartment in Inver Grove Heights. He shakes everybody's hands and says thank you. He reminds us to stop by Appliances at Sears on Rice Street and say hi sometime..."

Link

This is insane. Welcome to Bushworld.

[mhr]

7. BSEE, MBA, Commercial Pilot, Honorably Discharged Veteran

Unemployed 45 months!

This is a real problem folks.

I have sent 1,430 resumes out the door and have my resume posted on 105 job boards.

I have not had a serious inquiry in over two years now.

If I am unqualified to do anything in this country then this country is in serious trouble.

Said simply, the unemployment problem is much worse than portrayed and is the number one problem facing the country.

[ladjf]

18. Try regional airlines

If you have 1500 hrs, instrument, commercial, twin engine ratings,
you should be able to get an interview with one of the regionals. Try Chautauqua Airlines. They are hiring many pilots every month. Also, Southwest is hiring. They require 737 rating. If you lack that rating they will still hire but you'll have to pay for the rating. (10 g's)

Good luck. Don't give up.

[mhr]

20. Only Have 1200 Hours, 500 of Which Is TurboProp

The minimums for job entry went up sharply after 9/11 with all the pilot furloughs. Too many pilots chasing to few jobs.

I got caught short as my training completed when the minimums went up.

In other words the minimum requirements went up faster than I could fly additional hours.

At this point in time I have no more money to spend on flying.

Thanks GW, You Screwed Yet Another American!

[ladjf]

28. mhr - things are better in aviation than you think.

mhr -

Although the majors furloughed pilots after 9-11, the regionals actually increased their hiring. Several regionals are hiring hundreds each this year. There are on line site that one can subscribe to that give the total listing of who's hiring. How far are you from having an instructor rating? If you had that, you could get the 300 hrs. quickly.

My son was an instructor and quickly built up the 1500 hrs. He is currently a pilot for Chautauqua. He tells me that they are hiring many pilots right now.

You are right when you say that the American economy is in a mess and that it's getting very difficult to make a living. But, don't give up. Do you have any connections either in aviation or otherwise that might want to help you move forward?

[mhr]

29. No Connections, No Instructor Rating, Lots Of Real World Experience

But I can't make it past the screeners with their arbitrary minimums.

Here in Dallas, TX there is a glut of flight instructors. Getting that rating here is like throwing good money after bad.

As an indicator, the flight school I attended went out of business last fall. Not enough students.

You are right, if you are at the sweet spot of the experience curve, the jobs are a plenty.

[ladjf]

32. Check this site out.

This company has a fleet of Cessna 210 freight haulers. Your credentials appear to fall well within their requirements. I have personally talked with their recruiter when I was trying to find a job for my son. The recuiter wanted to interview me although I was over 60 years old.

http://www.flightexpress.com/employment.html

[Mari333]

8. I watched people last year when I lost my job at the supermarket here

thanks to Wal Mart opening its giant McStore, our small town supermarket folded...I suppose I was the only cashier there who could quote Shakespeare and had read Kafka , but it was the only job in town so I took it. Crappy money, but helped me offset using up what little retirement savings we have.
The people in line at the supermarket were using credit cards for groceries..90% of them did. Other people are on food stamps.
This hits our town economy terribly..this town relies heavily on out of town tourism...summer people..if they dont come, this town folds up..the people in this town rely on service sector jobs to keep the tourists happy.
If the tourists are out of work, they wont come, and the town goes to hell in a handbasket.
Its already started. 3 houses here burned to the ground last month because people couldnt afford gas, and used wood in shabby set ups for keeping warm.
Lots of people homeless here, and with 85 churches in town and around town, only ONE food pantry. Pretty damned bad.
I will live cheaply, off my retirement savings, for as long as I can. I dont know what else to do. Theres nothing , jobwise, here.

[pop goes the weasel]

10. and it's only going to get worse, even w/o W

Public workers in Texas, for instance, don't get to contribute to Social Security. This is all teachers, all clerks, all truck drivers, etc., who draw a paycheck from a state-chartered taxing district. And part-time workers do not qualify for the state-run retirement fund. For a long time now, there have been a lot of people who are subsisting on part-time jobs. The state makes a point of offering 19 hour jobs in order to avoid funding even the most basic benefits. And no retirement at all building up. I doubt Texas is alone in this behavior.

We have to make a massive change for good in this country or we will face a massive change for the worse. The nation in on the verge of a Brazil-like socio-economic situation.

[shrike]

15. Your post reminds me of one of Reagan's more insane

comments. During the '80s, when manufacturing folk were losing their jobs in droves, he said, "Vote with your feet," and go elsewhere. Damn right I'll vote with my feet, Ronnie. I'd have voted all over your head if I could.

[readmylips]

9. 4 of our friends have lost their jobs....

One is too old to be rehired doing the same job he was doing for 24 years, but still too young to retire. He's been out of work for 2 years and has only been able to work at Lowes a few hours a week. No health insurance.

Another friend has been strugling learning how to sell cars which he'd never done before. He has a masters in education and can only find a few ours of teaching in a Charter school. Health insurance through his wife.

Another friend is a single Mom with two kids in high school. She's cleaning houses. She has a degree in banking and can only get the weekend shift at a local bank as a teller. Her two teenage sons hold jobs at a local hamburger place, to help support themselves and their cars.

Another friend has hit bottom. He's in deep depression and about to have foreclosure on his house. He may even go to jail since he can't pay $500. a week child support.

I cry for America and my fellowpersons. Little man bush must go!

[reprobate]

11. You think it's bad now. Just wait for it.

Chalmers Johnson opened my eyes yesterday. The american empire must collapse from overextension, like all empires before it. We have over 700 bases in foriegn countries around the world. There is no other reason for them than to extend american power geographicly. But we can no longer afford to support them. The military has become such a drain on our economy that it is unsustainable. Trying to pay for it is destroying our middle class, and you can't have a successful economy with out a middle class.

Then there's the capitalist system itself. At base a good system for building an economy. The trouble is that it's been gamed to the point of destruction. The small business has always been the backbone of an economy. But the small business now has more against it than at eny other time. Not only has government stacked the deck for the major corporations, the major corporations target the small business until it can't compete. We have reached the point that I call "Preditory Capitalism", which is a zero sum game. All capital flows upward to the most powerfull. Meanwhile the corporations seek the cheapest labor, lowering the standard of living for the rest of us.

Finally, there is the "Great Uniter". He has managed to unite the rest of the world against us. There are now two superpowers: The United States of America and the rest of the world. We can do as we want, but the other superpower will do everything in it's power to restrain and destroy us. Not militarily, economicly.

Pull all three of these threads together and you have the prescription for empire collapse.

What to do about it? Chalmers Johnson had some good advice. If you possible can, get a passport from another country and start looking for an alternative home. Americans are no longer well loved.

Am I pessimistic? No, realistic.

[KayLaw]

14. Sorry

I hate to be a drag on the thread but who is Chalmers Johnson and what did he say?

[mhr]

17. See This Link For Chalmers Johnson At Buzz Flash

http://www.buzzflash.com/interviews/04/03/int04013.html

[KayLaw]

25. Awful! Thanks. ( NT )

[ladjf]

19. You are correct!

In a few words you have been able to describe exactly what the American situation is and where it is headed. I'm amazed that over 50% of Americans still feel that the Administration is doing a good job. Are the deaf, dumb and blind?

[Mountainman]

16. When you fall behind in your payments it becomes impossible to catch up

I was unemployed for 5 months and fell behind in my house payments and car payments etc. When that happens you have to make double or tripple the payments each month to ever get caught up.

Luckily being unemployed and a few other things got me a tax refung that helped me catch up and probably I didn't make my credit score go bad.

[Barkley]

21. 1.6 million left the labor force in all of 2003 and 588,000 in Feb. alone!

In the 1991 recession there were 1.25 million "discouraged workers" who left the work force.

Once they're outta the labor force they're not counted as unemployed because they are not "actively seeking employment".

The labor force constituted about 50% of the U.S. population in 2000 or about 140 million people.

Homemakers, full-time students, and retirees are not counted in the work force.

[napi21]

22. Answer is re-training?????

Every time I hear someone from the admin. talking about the lack of job generation, I hear "people have to be willing to be re-trained".

I keep yelling at my TV.....FOR WHAT????

The references in this post alone aren't referring to blacksmiths or horse groomers! There are engineers, MBA's, etc. that can't find a job. Even when they do, the rate of pay is 20-50% less than the job they lost.

I want to know WHEN is one of these interviewers going to ask just what kind of training they are recommending?

Maybe foreigh language, lawn care, grocery bagger..........

[Gingersnapsback]

24. Don't forget forklift driver

[Skittles]

26. the trouble with retraining is you must start entry level

plus, as you say, there's really no recommendation on what to train FOR.

[area51]

27. And don't forget ...

napi21 said:

"Every time I hear someone from the admin. talking about the lack of job generation, I hear 'people have to be willing to be re-trained'.

"I keep yelling at my TV.....FOR WHAT????"

Good point, but don't forget virtually no one is talking about where the money for retraining would come from, even if there were jobs to be retrained for. Most of us unemployed don't have the money for the fantasy of retraining. Jobs can be offshored, or "inshored", where people from other countries are brought in to do the job (nurses, for example).

[Barkley]

30. Re-training is just a textbook response and

sounds easier than it actually is.

After I got laid off in 1990s from my aerospace engineering job,
my retraining took over seven years in graduate school.

I wish my wage was as robust as my student loans.
I now earn less in real terms than I did as an engineer.

People like Anthony Whitmore who lost his job as a die press operator at Midland Steel are considered to be part of the economy's 'structural unemployment'.

This type of unemployment that arises when jobs permanently disappear as a result of foreign competition or technical change or in my case the end of the Cold War.

In addition to time, retraining cost money and public colleges and universities which are responsible for a lot of 'retraining' are raising their fees, cutting financial aid, limiting class sizes and capping enrollment.

[Just Me]

23. I keep telling myself,...

,...that, as a well-educated, long-term unemployed, bankrupt, single mom,...the good news is that I have more time on my hands to open my big mouth as often and passionately as possible to get these destructive tyrants out of the WH!!!!

[Lars39]

31. Notice how the headline is supposed to make the jobless appear

like slackards, and make us feel sorry for bush* and the Fed. Very biased.