Hofstra student recants rape story

[IndianaGreen]

Source: WABC-TV

Hofstra student recants rape story

By Scott Curkin; Eyewitness News

HEMPSTEAD, N.Y. (WABC) -- The student allegedly raped in a Hofstra dorm has as recanted her story.

All four suspects being held in connection with the rape claim, have been released.

The Nassau DA released the following statement.

"Moments ago my office moved to dismiss all charges against four men accused of committing a sexual assault on the campus of Hofstra University. Late this evening, during the continuation of the Nassau County Police Department's investigation of the allegation, and under questioning by my office's chief trial attorney and chief sex crimes prosecutor, the alleged victim of the sexual assault admitted that the encounter that took place early Sunday morning was consensual. Following the interview, my office moved quickly to appear before a night court judge to dismiss all charges and request that the judge order the individuals' immediate release. Nassau County Judge Robert Bruno dismissed the charges and ordered their release. I have launched an immediate criminal investigation into the statements and reports given by the woman in connection with this incident. Further details regarding this investigation will be released at a later time."

Read more: http://abclocal.go.com/wabc/story?section=news/local&id=7018123

[Tangerine LaBamba]

1. Oh, man..........

This is just horrible.

That young woman needs to be charged.

So much for making it even nicer for actual rape victims, you flaming twit...............................

[IndianaGreen]

4. The runaway bride made it harder for missing persons like Annie Le

to be given the necessary priority. It was days after Le was reported missing that the police discounted the runaway bride theory and began to treat it as a crime.

Remember the Duke University lacrosse team being accused of rape by a mentally disturbed woman?

[Tangerine LaBamba]

5. The people who pull this shit

make life miserable for so many, not just the ones they falsely accuse.

I don't think, though, that there was any kind of delay in the Annie Le case. My recent recollection is that they were on right away. But I'm sure others have suffered because of that idiot woman.

There are still people here at DU who never quite came to grips with the reality that those Duke guys were wrongly accused, that it was all lies. It was easier for them to continue bleating about the oppression of black women by the privileged white women.

It does so much harm. That young woman seriously needs to be charged and tried and, I hope, convicted. What she did is inexcusable.....

[pnwmom]

14. There was something of a delay, while they investigated the possibility that

she might have run away. That's understandable, though. It's not like they weren't doing anything, they were just pursuing another possibility. Everything changed when they got the surveillance tapes from the Yale building.

[99 Percent Sure]

16. Mm mm mm. Jamie Velez Mitchell and Nancy Grace got some

recanting to do as well. They are not happy about this. In fact, the false accusation is quite disturbing.

x(

[Tangerine LaBamba]

18. Those harridans!

Being sort of laid up these past few days, I've been watching television a whole lot more than normal, and those two are the worst of the worst.

They're shriekers. They just pitch fits as a matter of course.

This should cause both of those witches to choke, which would be a very good thing.

Those poor boys. Imagine what they've been through this past week - all because they had a chance to get laid with a willing girl who happened to be nuts.

And aren't her parents proud of her!!!!

[LisaL]

20. And both of them went on and on as to why Yale didn't have

cameras inside the building where poor Annie Le worked. Hello? Do we have to have a camera under every bed?
Most people are murdered off camera, I imagine.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

21. They give new meaning to

the "blame game." Everything that happens could have been prevented, according to those two.

And that hair! They both have heads that scare me.

The volume, though - why are they yelling all the time?

[LisaL]

22. Yea exactly.

Poor Annie Le's murder is an extremely rare situation. How many graduate students are murdered inside a secure laboratory with a key card access? I can't think of any similar cases. But listening to those two you would think there was an epidemic of graduate students being killed while working inside the lab. Cameras inside every closet! And why didn't police lock up the whole building? Maybe it's because police normally doesn't lock up the whole building in a missing person situation. Jeez.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

23. Angry, angry, angry -

and not much substance. The people who are on with them are just as bad.

This watching TV gig has been interesting. I can actually feel my IQ dropping.........................

[madmusic]

53. This watching TV gig has been interesting. I can actually feel my IQ dropping...

One of the best DU lines ever!

[bluestateguy]

Another liar. Just like the Duke lacrosse "victim".

and the woman who was "raped" by Kobe Bryant.

[pnwmom]

9. Fortunately this was caught a lot sooner. The other woman never recanted

and still has some "followers" even here on DU (I guess on the theory that women never lie about this.)

[bluestateguy]

10. Plus in this case there appears to be an ethical DA

A good prosecutor drops the charges when there is no evidence, rather than trying to pad their conviction rates.

[IndianaGreen]

12. Unlike the Duke Lacrosse case

in which the prosecutor was in a tough reelection fight.

[pnwmom]

13. True. Almost anyone would have done a better job than the Duke prosecutor

who only wanted as much publicity as he could get.

[Name removed]

25. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[BlooInBloo]

2. And yet the guys falsely accused have been smeared everywhere....

while we still don't know the adult false-accuser's name.

Nor does she seem to be facing any charges.

Wonder if she put the backwards 'B' on her face before or after her night of fun.

False rape accusations hurt the accused, obviously. But they hurt all *women* who really *have* been raped as well. It would be nice if women would speak out against this.

[Journeyman]

3. She could face charges. Says the DA. . .

"I have launched an immediate criminal investigation into the statements and reports given by the woman in connection with this incident. Further details regarding this investigation will be released at a later time."

[madmusic]

24. False accusors might not recant if the penalty is too severe.

Some claim they should do as much time as what a accused would have to do, 5-25 years in this case. That would make it less likely anyone would recant.

[closeupready]

26. Wait! "Recant" is a euphemism for admitting to lying. So fewer 'recants" is a bad thing?

I don't understand what you are saying. Can you re-phrase, thanks.

[Cal Carpenter]

29. I think what the poster was saying

(correct me if I am wrong) is that if the punishment is too severe, then liars are less likely to recant, and that is a bad thing because innocent people will still be accused (and possibly convicted, lives ruined etc).

If someone lies about rape and then finds out if they admit they were lying they'll go to jail for 10 years, then they'll keep on lying.

So even though our instinct may be to punish this woman for lying, there are arguments against using too severe a punishment.

I'm not saying I fully agree with the poster, but that's my interpretation of their point.

[closeupready]

35. oh, I see, okay.

That makes some sense.

[madmusic]

51. You expressed it better. Thanks.

It is probably already very difficult to recant a false accusation for many reasons. Facing 10 or 20 years in prison, as terrifying as that could be, could make it too difficult for some to recant.

[tabasco]

98. They might not make the false accusation in the first place

if the punishment is severe.

[Regret My New Name]

115. I would assume many who make such claims do it when they are not in the right state of mind...

Kind of like a spur of the moment sort of thing. Then later on they might be like "oh shit, why I am doing this"... Of course there are some cold calculating people who might do it, but they're probably going to do it either way.

[noiretextatique]

120. perhaps that would work for rape too

if the punishment was more severe, perhaps there would be less rapes.

[EmilyAnne]

6. Their pictures are still up on the Huffington Post home page. nt

[BlooInBloo]

7. Of course they are. And hers isn't, I presume.

[pnwmom]

11. It would be nice if more women spoke up about this. (I have.)

I read somewhere that the police ARE considering charges against the false-accuser. It's not over yet. But I don't understand why her name is being withheld at this point. She's no victim.

[Berry Cool]

32. Same here.

Women like this only make things harder for true rape survivors. And yeah, let her name be known far and wide.

[zonkers]

40. I advise young people going off to college not to particiapte in gang bangs.

[LisaL]

90. Regretting it after the fact doesn't qualify it as rape either.

[LiberalAndProud]

94. Her name is DANMELL NDONYE

I just want to get this out there. This little girlie is a stupid evil liar.

[JonQ]

117. It would be nice if they'd show her face and name on the news

so men in the future know to avoid that crazy lady, you know, the same way many will still avoid these men in the future (as this is one of those crimes that leaves a permanent stain on your character).

[BattyDem]

8. Why do people do this?

It makes it more difficult for real victims. :-(


edited: typo :blush:

[BlooInBloo]

17. Because they can.

This has been another episode of Simple Answers To Simple Questions.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

19. My guess is that

somehow, in some way, her parents found out she was screwing around.

So, of course, she had to break down and confess that she'd been raped.

Sounds to me like the girl has a whole lot more going on that being a liar - any girl who volunteers to have sex with a bunch of boys isn't quite right.

Of course, in my high school, she would have been Prom Queen, I swear............................

[Umbram]

27. Girl at my school did it because...

she wanted a single dorm room and wasn't otherwise eligible so she figured she'd fake a rape and be eligible for one based on psychological need.

She recanted after the cops made an arrest.

I guess putting a small down in fear, getting arrested, and making people take rape less seriously is all worth it not to have a roomate?

[slackmaster]

37. It's a cry for attention

Nothing more.

[Odin2005]

79. Ugh, I hate that accusation.

Idiots constantly accused my friend of just looking for attention after she had been raped. I think that's a nasty stereotype.

[slackmaster]

84. Your friend had a legitimate complaint

Someone else making a false claim does not in any way negate the legitimacy of your friend's situation.

[alp227]

15. The pseudo-victim owes us big-time restitution!

n/t

[Odin2005]

28. Ugh, It's BS like this that caused my friend to be called an attention-seeking liar after her rape.

At the same time I can't stop wondering if the alleged victim just recanted out of fear of facing the accused in court, which is common with rape victims.

[LiberalAndProud]

92. She recanted because there is video evidence that she is a liar.

http://mensnewsdaily.com/glennsacks/2009/09/17/hofstra-woman-cries-rape-recants/

Luckily, the woman takes only two days before she tells the police the truth - that she made it up. The sex was consensual. And that's a big relief. At least you won't be facing a stretch in stir that's longer than you've lived so far. But there are still those headlines, still those photos and still that word.

Danmell Ndonye told police that five men had tied her up with rope and raped her repeatedly in the bathroom of her Hofstra dormitory. She screamed for help, but, at 3 a.m., no one heard her. Police called it a "vicious" attack. News media repeated verbatim what the police said. No one wondered; no one asked you if it were true.

But luckily, one of your friends had a cell phone and he photographed the whole scene.

[AngryAmish]

30. One of the falsely accused first name is Stalin

Who names their kid Stalin?

[closeupready]

48. Who names their kid Jesus? Adolph? George? Dick? Jane?

Who knows, who cares, what difference does it make? Stalin is innocent.

[dysfunctional press]

31. but...but...but...women NEVER LIE about rape!

at least that's what i've always heard the gals say. :shrug:

[Berry Cool]

33. Normally, they don't. Your statement implies that they nearly always do

and that is not true.

See, that's one of the problems with situations like these. They are quickly seized upon by certain types of people and used as a reason why a woman who cries rape should NEVER be believed...or why she should not be believed until SHE proves beyond a reasonable doubt that SHE didn't consent to an incident of sex. It puts the woman back on trial again, rather than the man or men she accuses. And some people are all too eager to return to THOSE bad old days, given the slightest justification.

[IDFbunny]

34. Good post

I said something similar and my post got deleted, maybe because I called her a bad name. This case raises the bar for new victims, especially if she (won't call her that again) is convicted and severely sentenced. Now rapists can find cover with the Duke and Hofstra cases.

[BoneDaddy]

39. How do you figure that?

What possible defense can be garnered through those cases? Facts are facts. In fact, the opposite is true. Those boys were found guilty IMMEDIATELY in the media and on DU and it turned out the a black woman lied about it all. Alot of egg on the DU community on that one and STILL people had the gall to continue to keep it alive.

[ScreamingMeemie]

36. What needs to be done is more thorough investigation before names

are ruined, lives as well...and books thrown.

I lost my husband, the most wonderful human being on the earth, because he could not take an unfounded accusation that was leveled at him...and the justice system (since proven wrong, and so very apologetic) ran with.

This is a real problem. It destroyed my life. It killed my husband.

[dysfunctional press]

41. that is not true.

there is absolutely no implication in my statement that women "nearly always" lie about rape.

[Umbram]

42. Nope, there isn't.

I suggest you just agree that you are the enemy and don't attempt to make any sense. Logic can and will be used against you.

[LanternWaste]

56. I have little doubt

"at least that's what i've always heard the gals say..."

I have few doubts you may even believe that to be the case...

[BoneDaddy]

38. The problem isn't this young woman

it is how our society, the media and individuals react to it. Instead of "innocent until proven guilty", it becomes an often over reaction and presumption of guilt from the get go.

[Regret My New Name]

116. The suspects names should be kept secret like the accusers names should be.

Although, I suspect that might be easier said than done.

[Nye Bevan]

43. She deserves to go to jail.

Women like Danmell Ndonye should face the consequences of viciously trying to ruin young men's lives.

http://www.examiner.com/x-12971-Houston-Legal-Issues-Examiner~y2009m9d17-Danmell-Ndonye-recants-rape-allegation-four-alleged-suspects-set-free

[democomments]

114. Disturbed Males Get No Special Treatment or Leniency

Unfortunately, I've seen what Danmell Ndonye did described as a "hoax" in some headlines.
This was no hoax. A hoax is more or less a joke, a harmless trick someone plays on another
or others. Trying to get five innocent guys put behind bars for years is as much of a "hoax"
as trying to rape someone.

It seems clear that many of the men who rape women are disturbed. But no prosecutor would
dream of just letting a rapist (or a would-be rapist who is fought off) go free because they
need "help." It's time that the dual standard be stopped. Female teachers are having sex with
male students (or sometimes female students) and getting off very lightly usually. A male
teacher doing the same thing (with a consensual partner) would be put away for a long,
long time. Others on this forum have mentioned the false accuser of the Duke lacrosse
players. The big question, though is--now that we've seen a few falsely accused "rapists"
be lucky enough to have exculpatory evidence--how often does this happen? What
percentage of date rape claims, for example, are false? No need to flame me, because
I'm only asking a question that needs to be answered but probably can't be answered.
I have no idea how common false charges, and neither does anyone else.

Danmel Ndonde took aim at five victims, not much differently from aiming a weapon at
five people. She missed, but it could have turned out another way. In a case of her word
against theirs, I hate to think about the outcome. She needs to be prosecuted.

The argument someone made about women being less likely to recant false charges if
the penalty is too great could be made about the severe penalties for rape, too. If
the penalty for rape was made lighter, maybe fewer rapists would kill their victim out
of fear of being caught. Neither of those arguments is good in my opinion.

[hedgehog]

44. So, an 18 year old student, possibly a freshman away from home

for the first time a grand total of what, two, three weeks? decided to have sex with four men? Riiiiiiight. There is a lot more to this story than is being said. I'd give you odds that alcohol and/or some other drugs were involved at some point.


The acts involved may not meet the criminal standard for rape, but what kind of person does this kind of thing?

[cali]

45. I don't see why her being a freshman in college or away from home for

the first time has anything to do with it.

[hedgehog]

47. I'm suggesting that this woman is relatively naive, which would suggest both that

she is unlikely to engage in consensual sex with four or five men in a row and that she is unlikely to be alert to avoid being in this situation.


College students are the most vulnerable to rape during the
first few weeks of the freshman and sophomore years.18 In
fact, the first few days of the freshman year are the riskiest,
limiting the value of any rape prevention programs that
begin after that. Research has shown that rapes of college
women tend to occur after 6 p.m., and the majority occur
after midnight.

Only 20 percent of college rape victims have additional
injuries, most often bruises, black eyes, cuts, swelling,
or chipped teeth.22 Thus, investigative practices should
be modified to obtain more subtle evidence of lack of
consent, rather than just use of force.

Slightly more than 50 percent of college rape and
attempted rape victims use force against their assailant,
and 50 percent tell the person to stop.


Rape myths allow us to believe that a "real rape" is
one in which a victim is raped by a stranger who
jumps out of the bushes with a weapon, and in which
she fought back, was beaten and bruised, reported
the event to the police, and had medical evidence
collected immediately. In a "real rape," the victim has
never had sex with the assailant before, is preferably a
virgin, was not intoxicated, was not wearing seductive
clothing, and has a good reputation.…Unfortunately,
acquaintance sexual assaults contain few, if any, of
those elements. In many acquaintance rape situations,
the victim had been drinking, did voluntarily go with
the man to his apartment or room, was not threatened
with a weapon, did not fight back, did not report the
event to the police immediately, did not have medical
evidence collected, and may have even had sex with
the assailant voluntarily before.


www.cops.usdoj.gov/files/RIC/Publications/e07063411.pdf


Italics mine - because this suggests that 50% of the victims do not tell the assailants to stop.

[cali]

50. how do you know she's relatively naive. I wasn't at her age.

and whatever the statistics reflect, there are some facts in this case that favor the men. Until we have some evidence that she was pressured into recanting, it's all speculation.

[hedgehog]

52. I'm just going by the odds. Most 18 year old women do not engage in

gang bangs.

[closeupready]

57. What does that even mean? That it' s okay to pass judgment based upon stereotypes?

n/t

[hedgehog]

60. I'm not passing judgment based upon stereotypes. I'm saying, that

based upon the statistics describing acquittance rape on campuses, the claim that this woman is an out and out liar seems unlikely.

I think she was drinking and/or under the influence of other drugs. She may not have realized how much she was drinking. She may have been given drugs without her knowledge or consent. Isn't it still rape when the person involved is too intoxicated to give consent? Or does the fact an intoxicated woman accompanies one or more males to a secluded spot mean she gives consent?

Reading the article, she originally described being tied with ropes. Now she admits that didn't happened. It still might be acquittance rape.

[closeupready]

65. Okay, I'll concede that there are alternative explanations besides 'she's a liar.'

n/t

[IKnowItAll]

77. Maybe she craves attention.......

[Odin2005]

80. "she's just looking for attention" evil, sexist stereotype that hurts rape victims

It's derived from the sexist stereotype of the "hysterical woman".

[rayofreason]

106. "acquittance rape"????

A Freudian slip, methinks.

[cali]

88. yeah, well this one did. it was videoed. that's why she recanted.

[closeupready]

55. Yeah, right. Read "Random Family" by Adrian LeBlanc, and get back to us.

n/t

[hedgehog]

64. "Random Family " describes the lives of people living in poverty.

Tuition at Hoftra is $14,450 per term, plus another $3500 or so for a dorm room, plus another $1500 or so for meal ticket, plus assorted fees.

[Odin2005]

78. +1

[LiberalAndProud]

95. I suggest that you are the one who is naive.

Did you ever watch the movie Kids?

My daughters were in high school at the time the movie was released (1995). When I expressed my discomfort with the promiscuity in the movie, my daughters told me in no uncertain terms, that "That is the way it is now, Mom. That is real."

Rent it. Watch it. Weep.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0113540/plotsummary

[Nye Bevan]

46. Alcohol may have been involved?

You may well be right. But just because a young woman gets drunk and has sex with some men does not mean that she should get away with making false allegations that could have sent them to jail for 25 years each.

[hedgehog]

49. The question is, was she too intoxicated to give consent?

Acquaintance Rape is nonconsensual sexual intercourse between people who know each other. Sexual assault between acquaintances consists of nonconsensual sexual activity that does not include intercourse. "Nonconsensual" means that there is some use of force, intimidation or manipulation, or that one of the parties is unable to give consent.

Inability to give consent would be likely, for example, if one of the parties is drunk or unconscious. Guns, knives or other forms of violence do not have to be used for the sexual activity to be considered nonconsensual. The victim does not have to resist for the sexual activity to be considered nonconsensual. Often the person is afraid to say no, and will not resist in the face of threats or overpowering.

Consent must be given each time people engage in sexual activity, and cannot be assumed by previous consensual sexual activity with the same person. It also cannot be assumed by consensual kissing or petting on the same occasion.


In a survey of college students on many campuses, 75% of men were drinking at the time of an acquaintance rape and 55% of the women were drinking at the time of the assault. In another survey of women on one campus, 80% said they were intoxicated at the time they experienced acquaintance rape.

www.stmarys-ca.edu/student.../acquaintance-rape-and-sexual-assault.pdf

[Occulus]

63. You need to stop now.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=4064026&mesg_id=4065203

[hedgehog]

70. The video proves she was lying when she claimed to have been tied up.

The person who claims it proves there was no rape is a defense attorney. His suggestion that the video looks like a porn movie is awfully close to the old " well, she was a slut who wanted it" defense.

[Occulus]

74. They have been cleared of all wrongdoing, SHE has been suspended,

and the prosecutor is considering filing charges against HER (which I deeply hope happens). I also hope these guys sue the shit out of her into the bargain.

The story didn't even mention alcohol; that's your (unsupported) inclusion.

How much more do you need? Even if she now started saying alcohol was involved, there's no reason to believe her because she was already caught lying.

[Lance_Boyle]

68. so wait... if 75% of men involved were drinking

does that mean they were victims, too? :eyes:

[hedgehog]

71. So, if a person beats someone while drunk, hits another car while drunk,

shoots someone while drunk, there is no crime because they didn't know what they were doing?

[LisaL]

91. This goes against your own argument that if a woman had been

drinking, she can not possibly consent to sex. Here you are arguing that a drunk person still knows what he or she is doing.
Which one is it, exactly?

[Codeine]

110. So one party has responsibility for their actions while drunk

and the other party has none?

Your logic is broken.

[closeupready]

54. I guess you'd be surprised. I would not.

n/t

[Lance_Boyle]

66. "what kind of person does this kind of thing?"

A person who likes sex, but doesn't want mommy and daddy to find out, and is willing to send 4 innocent people to prison to cover her skanky lying ass.

I don't get your comment though - group sex must always be coercive? A woman can never willingly choose to fuck 4 men at once? What more do you believe there is to the story?

[Occulus]

73. He's angling for an aggravating factor

just like the idiots who believed the woman in the Duke case.

Note that Hedgehog is bringing up alcohol all over the place as a potential aggravating factor, when it isn't even mentioned in the story. I recall the same behavior on the part of some posters back in the Duke case discussions, and then as now, they came across as desperately wanting there to be "more to the story".

There isn't. She lied, nearly ruined the lives of five young men, and then recanted. The moment she admitted it was consensual, she got herself into very deep trouble.

[woo me with science]

81. Stories like this threaten our cultural mythology

that men are always perpetrators, women are always victims, and women never lie about such things. For those who have bought into the 1980's pop psychology mythologies about victimhood, these are sacred Truths that must be defended.

In real life, lying, vindictiveness, and attention-seeking are equal opportunity sports.

[IndianaGreen]

58. UPDATE: Hofstra Gang Rape Hoax Student Suspended; Attorney Says Video Proves Suspects Innocence

Hofstra Gang Rape Hoax Student Suspended; Attorney Says Video Proves Suspects Innocence

MINEOLA, N.Y. — A prosecutor was considering Thursday whether to file criminal charges against a Hofstra University freshman who recanted claims that she was gang-raped by five men in a dormitory bathroom.

The student, whom officials have declined to identify, has been suspended from school pending a disciplinary hearing, said Hofstra spokeswoman Melissa Connolly.

The spokeswoman also said that a suspension against Rondell Bedward – the only Hofstra student among the five men implicated – had been lifted.

The attorney for another of the accused men, 20-year-old Kevin Taveras, said a video of the sexual encounter confirms reports that the victim was not forcibly attacked.

"It looks more like a porn movie," Victor Daly-Rivera said. "It showed just the opposite of what the allegations were. There was no tying up, there was no bruising, there was no screaming."

On Wednesday night, Nassau County District Attorney Kathleen Rice revealed that the 18-year-old accuser had recanted and said the sex with the five men had been consensual.

Read more at: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/09/17/hofstra-gang-rape-hoax-st_n_289774.html

[madmusic]

59. Wow, what if there was no video?

It's like this case:

http://www.ocweekly.com/2006-02-09/news/great-dick-babe/

She did it for the victim's compensation $$$. The video saved them.

[hedgehog]

62. Does the video prove the woman wasn't intoxicated and was capable of giving consent?

[closeupready]

67. Burden of proof is on the accuser.

n/t

[madmusic]

72. Wrong. There is statistical guilt.

Who needs the Bill of Rights when we have statistics?

[closeupready]

76. Or presumption of innocence. That's for sissies. Shoot first, ask questions later.

n/t

[hedgehog]

87. Yep, we all know the woman lied because that's what the cops are saying, now.

[closeupready]

109. You seem to know that the most likely scenario is a group of men who took advantage of an intoxicate

d woman. No woman can ever be promiscuous, and no man can ever be trusted to leave an intoxicated woman alone.

[TrogL]

61. Has anyone considered that the Reid Technique might be in play?

Suppose that the circumstances took place pretty much as she said, a date rape turned into gang rape, they isolated her in a room with ... get this ... the chief trial attorney AND the chief sex crimes prosecutor and after hours of leading questions...

"Are you sure you didn't ..."
"Could there be the possibility that..."
"Are you absolutely sure you didn't..."
"Could you possibly have misinterpreted..."

...she's presented with a document bearing no resemblance whatsoever with what she actually said and told to sign it or she won't be allowed to leave the room.

[madmusic]

69. Possible. That's how false confessions happen

http://www.justicedenied.org/false.htm

Are you accusing the police of being accessories to rape after the fact?

[hedgehog]

75. I'm not accusing anyone, just pointing out that these cases sometimes aren't clear cut.

there also seems to be a broad distaste for rape cases as murky, ambiguous and difficult to prosecute, particularly when they involve (as they often do) alcohol or acquaintance rape.

“They talk about the victims’ credibility in a way that they don’t talk about the credibility of victims of other crimes,” Ms. Tofte said.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/30/opinion/30kristof.html

Dr King's research showed women who were raped by someone they knew, or who did not attempt to fight the perpetrator, were considered less credible by police and potential jurors.

Police officers who took part in the study also identified alcohol use and the expression of non-consent as factors likely to help them decide whether the woman had been a rape victim.

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/rape-victims-still-suffering-insensitivity-20090906-fcb9.html

[madmusic]

82. These cases are NOT easy...

No one minimizes the complexity and trauma of these cases. Consider this though: does trying to find guilt when the evidence indicates innocence compound the false accusation problem? Does it hurt the cause?

[hedgehog]

86. I see a lot of people jumping up to condemn the woman for lying, when all

we have is the word of the same DA who told us last week the men were rapists. I don't think all the facts are in yet. It's possible that the woman was cold stone sober and agreed to have sex with five men one after another. It's possible that we're dealing with day after regrets. The more likely scenario is that a group of men took advantage of an intoxicated woman unable to provide consent. A young woman in that situation might well be confused as to exactly what happened and what her role was.

[The Onyx Key]

96. Why is it more likely that...

"The more likely scenario is that a group of men took advantage of an intoxicated woman unable to provide consent." ??

[closeupready]

108. Do you dislike men? Your questions contain all kinds of sexist notions.

Why does it seem 'more likely' that these men 'took advantage of an intoxicated woman'? I find that a really offensive claim, particularly because you are cautioning everyone not to jump to conclusions, and then you go jump to conclusions.

[Codeine]

83. The video evidence says otherwise. nt

[hedgehog]

85. Here's an entire aspect of this case that has gone unmentioned:

The Department of Public Safety regularly employees over 350 students in the Resident Safety Program. They are stationed in the security booth at each residence hall. They are responsible for monitoring the entrance to the residence hall to ensure that unauthorized persons do not enter the residence hall.

Access to residence halls is limited to resident students and their guests. Students must carry Hofstra University ID (HofstraCard) at all times and must swipe their card in the card reader in order to enter their residence hall. Students who live on campus and are visiting another residence hall on campus must surrender their HofstraCard and be signed in by the RSR before they can enter the building. Anyone who does not live on campus, including commuter students, must surrender valid photo ID, sign in with the RSR and must be announced to his/her host.

http://www.hofstra.edu/StudentAffairs/PublicSafety/ResSaf/index.html

Since the incident took place in a Hofstra dorm, who signed everybody in? Or, was anybody signed in? It's possible that Hofstra wants to make all this go away very quickly.

[LisaL]

89. Do you realize that there is a video of the incident?

And the charges have been dropped. And the woman has recanted, according to the OP article.
Since there was a video of the incident (which looks more like a "porn movie" than what the woman claimed went on, according to the defense attorney), I am pretty sure it's a safe bet prosecution has viewed it.
Do you realize it would have been totally ridiculous for the prosecution to drop charges if things on the video supported this accusation?

[hedgehog]

99. I find the description " porn movie" very interesting, since reportedly

a lot (most?) porn made today emphasizes the degradation of the female partner as opposed to her sexual satisfaction.

[LiberalAndProud]

93. Her name is Danmell Ndonye . DANMELL NDONYE

DANMELL NDONYE

And if I can find a photo, I will post it.

[hedgehog]

100. I'm guessing a lot of people are assuming that this is a white woman making an

accusation against black men. Ndonye appears to be Kenyan name. What happens if it turns out this woman is either African or Africa-American? Does that change anyone's opinion of the possible scenarios?

[mamaleah]

101. Why would that matter?

If someone is raped, race should not matter. If someone is not raped, why does their race matter?

If someone falsely accuses someone of rape, what does their race matter? Criminals are criminals aren't they?

[hedgehog]

111. 1. I don't think this story would be national news if the press had not assumed

that the woman involved was white.

2. Whatever happened, the five men involved are not the Scottsboro Boys.

[The Onyx Key]

102. Great idea!

Let's muddy the waters with insinuations of racism! Sweet!

[LiberalAndProud]

103. Should it?

I really don't care. A liar is a liar. This lie harms us all. It especially harms victims who are in fact assaulted. As if women who have fallen victim to rape aren't already viewed through a jaundiced eye, with the expectation that the woman did something to invite the assault. These kinds of stories are harmful and it really doesn't matter what shade the woman's skin is.

[Nye Bevan]

104. If the race of the woman would "change [your] opinion of the possible scenarios"

then you are a racist.

[JonQ]

118. I was completely outraged when I thought this was a white woman getting raped by black men

then I found out it was a false accusation levied by a white woman against black women, so I was indifferent, then I found out it was a black woman lying about rape, so I was ok with it again.

The main thing here is race, not the false accusation or anything like that.

:eyes:

[tabasco]

97. These assholes making false claims need to be LOCKED UP a long time!

It's become a fucking GAME to these assholes.

[rayofreason]

107. I don't think it was a game to her.

It is just what she felt she had to do.

She would, on the face of it, seem to be a seriously messed up individual. While I agree that there should be serious consequences for this kind of misconduct, I do reserve a bit of pity for an obviously confused and troubled young woman.

[tabasco]

112. That's what makes it so easy for these assholes to ruin peoples' lives.

Even though they commit awful crimes against others, with their false accusations, everybody still feels sorry for them.

My pity is expended on those who deserve it, not remorseless criminals who destroy others simply for their own good.

[rayofreason]

113. I can still feel sorry for her..

..while calling for her prosecution.

Anyone who is as messed up as she is to go gang banging in the first place deserves some measure of pity, but not an pass that allows her to avoid the consequences of her actions.

Same thing when I hear about a murderer who was abused as a kid. There is pity and the need for justice to be served, side by side.

[JonQ]

119. She cheated on her boyfriend and lied to cover it up

would you have any sympathy for a man who "felt he had to do it" to get out of trouble for his actions?

Difference being: when a man lies and says he was working late (or whatever his excuse) to get away with cheating he doesn't put 5 innocent lives on the line (and permanently damage their lives regardless of the outcome).

I have no sympathy for her, she's hurt these men, their friends and family, and all real rape victims. Ideally she'd get to have what their sentences would have been, 5 of them, back to back, no parole. In reality I'd be happy for a few years in jail and seeing her face and name on every front page for the next week or so.

[noiretextatique]

121. it's been a game for a long time

"Rosewood" describes a heinous, long-hidden racial incident that occurred in Florida in 1923, an escalating tragedy that led to the destruction of a prosperous black town. A false accusation of rape allowed Rosewood's envious white neighbors to embark on a witch hunt in which at least eight people (and probably many more) died. It took only a few days for the population of Rosewood to be scattered, and for the town to be wiped off the map. Black survivors of the massacre finally received reparations in 1993.

http://partners.nytimes.com/library/film/rosewood-film-review.html

[Danmel]

105. Not only is my user name Danmel

But I went to Hofstra. For real!

[Name removed]

122. Deleted message

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