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White House advisers: Intraparty rift over fate of public option caught Obama by surprise

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t0dd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 09:04 AM
Original message
White House advisers: Intraparty rift over fate of public option caught Obama by surprise
Source: Washington Post

President Obama's advisers acknowledged Tuesday that they were unprepared for the intraparty rift that occurred over the fate of a proposed public health insurance program, a firestorm that has left the White House searching for a way to reclaim the initiative on the president's top legislative priority.

Administration officials insisted that they have not shied away from their support for a public option to compete with private insurance companies, an idea they said Obama still prefers to see in a final bill.

But at a time when the president had hoped to be selling middle-class voters on how insurance reforms would benefit them, the White House instead finds itself mired in a Democratic Party feud over an issue it never intended to spotlight.

"I don't understand why the left of the left has decided that this is their Waterloo," said a senior White House adviser, who spoke on the condition of anonymity. "We've gotten to this point where health care on the left is determined by the breadth of the public option. I don't understand how that has become the measure of whether what we achieve is health-care reform."

"It's a mystifying thing," he added. "We're forgetting why we are in this."

Another top aide expressed chagrin that a single element in the president's sprawling health-care initiative has become a litmus test for whether the administration is serious about the issue.

"It took on a life of its own," he said.

In search of new momentum, Obama plans to discuss the matter Thursday with thousands of his most loyal supporters in a nationwide "strategy call" hosted by Organizing for America, a grass-roots arm of the Democratic National Committee.

...

Richard Kirsch of Health Care for America Now said the idea was destined to become a flash point for the Obama administration as it began the health-care debate.

"They couldn't have avoided it," said Kirsch, an early proponent of the public option idea. "It was impossible. It was always going to be something that progressives really cared for."

Kirsch said early criticism of the concept by conservatives and insurance industry groups helped solidify liberal support for it.

"The right went on the attack," he said. "As a result, the issue got tremendously elevated. Because the right attacked it aggressively, it became a centerpiece of the battle."

...

Groups pushing for a public plan urged the White House on Tuesday to stick to its guns.

"They made a decision in June to be more public in their support for the public option," Kirsch said. "I think that was the right decision. They should stick with that, because it keeps their base with them."

One Democratic Obama ally lamented that the push for a public plan has become synonymous with victory on health-care reform.

"In the last 90 days, it has taken on an aura much more pronounced than it did the first four months of the year," said the activist, who spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss White House strategy. He said Obama's advisers have stoked the controversy this week by creating the perception they were abandoning the public plan.

"If they made a mistake, it does go back to what I consider some inartfully framed phrases from the president and some other administration officials," the activist said. "To get where they had to go, they didn't have to depart too much from the language of June and July."

Jim Kessler, a vice president at the nonpartisan Third Way think tank, said that to the public, the health-care debate appears to be a "muddle." But the fierce sparring over the opposition may signal progress on the legislative front. He said: "We always knew this was going to be decided near the end."

Read more: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/08/18/AR2009081803655.html



This proves the liberal backlash is working, and with conservatives out of the picture now, it's time to solidify the inclusion of a strong, robust public option. Oh, and I'm sure by "left of the left" that White House official meant 76% of the American people.. :eyes:
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hobbit709 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 09:08 AM
Response to Original message
1. Maybe because the left ain't making their kind of money and bennies.
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jasi2006 Donating Member (544 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 02:49 PM
Response to Reply #1
69. Screw 'em. they are either with us or against us.
If they are against us, there isn't anything that will change their minds. Pres. Obama should submit his own draft legislation, let Congress go for vote it up or down. Period!
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roguevalley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 04:31 PM
Response to Reply #1
81. left of the left?!?! FUCK THEM! FUCK THEM! FUCK THEM!
I hope they all lose everything they own and get sick and maybe they will get it that this is about justice, not politics, the fuckers.
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DrDan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 09:09 AM
Response to Original message
2. "We're forgetting why we are in this."
This advisor had better be wondering why the administration is forgetting - not the "left of the left".

Single-payer has already been compromised. Pharma has been appeased.

NO MORE
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Nite Owl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 09:12 AM
Response to Original message
3. If they had actually listened to
'the left' instead of excluding us from any planning they would have known. The public option was the compromise since single payer was off the table from the beginning, not even negotiable.
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still_one Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 09:17 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. I am not the left, and I demand a public option. Maybe that adviser should stop
characterizing where this is coming from, which is, the majority of the Democrats

Maybe they should understand who put them in office, instead of trying to compromise with those that are calling them "nazis", "communists", etc., and didn't and would never vote for them

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whathehell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 09:47 AM
Response to Reply #5
21. I find it amazing...So "brilliant"......but so utterly clueless?
Edited on Wed Aug-19-09 09:53 AM by whathehell
Is this possible?...Or were they just ACTING like Democrats all along?

There is a truly mind-blowing article at Newsweek.com called "Attack" which calls out the RW Lies and explains the the president's "messaging" problem succinctly.

I haven't read such an incisive, honest, pro-progressive report on a political issue any "mainstream" publication in years...It's a must read.:thumbsup:
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Sentath Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 12:58 PM
Response to Reply #21
50. wrong spot for this reply
Edited on Wed Aug-19-09 12:59 PM by Sentath
thats not who I clicked to respond to.
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whathehell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 03:39 PM
Response to Reply #50
74. Sorry...but I don't know what you are referring to..
Edited on Wed Aug-19-09 03:48 PM by whathehell
Care to clue me in?
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Doremus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 03:59 PM
Response to Reply #21
77. Have a link? I'd like to read it.
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whathehell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 04:18 PM
Response to Reply #77
78. I'm embarrassed to admit it, but I'm kind of "technically challenged"..Go to newsweek.com and
Edited on Wed Aug-19-09 04:19 PM by whathehell
look for article by Sharon Begley called "Attack..The truth about Obamacare"

If you have a problem, let me know..In the meantime, maybe some kind soul can "fill me in" about posting links here.:blush:
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whathehell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 08:20 PM
Response to Reply #77
88. Yup...I've got it right here (you can ignore my previous post)
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 01:03 PM
Response to Reply #5
52. Ding, ding, ding, ding. We have a winnah.
I did not expect one so early in the thread.

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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 02:20 PM
Response to Reply #5
63. Did you write and tell them? Did you call and tell them?
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-20-09 09:08 AM
Response to Reply #63
101. Once a week!
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llmart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 03:07 PM
Response to Reply #5
71. That is how I feel too......
I am not "left of the left" or even that "left" if truth be told, but I want a public option. And President Obama better understand who put him in office. The people opposing the public option would never vote for him or any other Democratic candidate anyway. So, marginalize them and get on with it.
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kenfrequed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 09:19 AM
Response to Reply #3
7. Moreover
Had they started the debate at Single Payer and compromised for 'public option' we would probably be in better shape.

I had pointed this out months ago when they were busy keeping single payer universal off the table and I got no end of wonks, strategists, and blue dogs telling me how wrong I was or how somehow that this was all some goddamned chess strategy. Funny how when something like this breaks that completely invalidates their bullshit that they disappear like an Arizona frost.
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murdoch Donating Member (658 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 01:36 PM
Response to Reply #3
57. Absolutely
I myself wanted something similar to the NHS in England - and England is not some alien far-left country - the US drew its laws from there, we have been allies in wars for a long time, since the 1970s it has been run alternatively by people like Thatcher to Third Way Labour people like Blair and Brown.

Still that is too far left supposedly so they say there's single payer like Medicare

But they say that's unfeasible, so we have to compromise and accept a public option

Now they're telling us that they want to cave in on that.

As O'Donnell said on Olbermann, they're not going to stop with killing the PO anyhow. Next on the chopping block would be employer mandates, then individual mandates.

I guess the "left of the left" as they put it is the majority of people in this country, according to polls.

http://mediamatters.org/iphone/research/200908060031

Most recent polls show that the majority of Americans support a public option

Quinnipiac: 62 percent support "public option."

Washington Post/ABC News: 54 percent support a "government-run plan."

Time: 56 percent favor a "government-sponsored" option.

NY Times/CBS News: 66 percent favor a "government administered" plan.

McClatchy: 52 percent say "it is necessary to create a public health insurance plan.
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kirby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 09:13 AM
Response to Original message
4. Talk about being out of touch!
It doesnt take a rocket scientist to know that most people dislike insurance companies. Many of us cannot get underwritten. Having a public option is important. Even with the other reforms, the ability to choose an option that is not motivated by profit when it comes to peoples lives is important.
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 01:20 PM
Response to Reply #4
53. This is the man who wrote of his mother spending her dying days
arguing with insurance companies and he has trouble understanding why "the left," aka his own damn Party, do
esn't want to fund an industry co-op?

BTW, if I were dying of cancer, my son would be making those calls for me and having those fights on my behalf. Obama Just sayin'
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saigon68 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-20-09 08:59 AM
Response to Reply #53
99. Its the Oh well option
And with that nothing gets done
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Kurska Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 09:18 AM
Response to Original message
6. He was suprised by how gays acted towards the DOMA brief.
He was surprised by how leftists act towards the attempt to abandon a public option and He was surprised by how jews responded to the demand that Israel stop building in it's capital.

Is there anything Obama isn't going to be surprised by?
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Demit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 09:49 AM
Response to Reply #6
22. Every once in awhile I get a slight whiff of a patronizing attitude from Obama.
I think he's used to charming people, esp. with his intelligence, having done it all his life. So it surprises him, and not in a happy way, when they hold different opinions from him even after he's indicated what he thinks.
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 02:15 PM
Response to Reply #22
62. Finally saw that, did you?
It popped up in the primaries from time to time.

But it's so what now. He doesn't want us to know it's there so we have to show him ways that we can all pretend that it isn't.

I don't care how he feels as long as he does what I want. If he does, he can have all the glory HE wants. Fine by me. FDR was no angel, either.
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Demit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 03:50 PM
Response to Reply #62
76. Well, it didn't sit right with me what he said to Hillary Clinton, that 'you're likable enough'
comment. And I forget what he said to a woman in the crowd that time—did he call her hon, or dear, or something? So I think our hero has a bit of a 'tude that way. But I agree with you. If he turns out to be a great man I'll cut him that slack. No man is a hero to his valet and all that. I think Pete Rose was one of the best ballplayers who ever lived and I'm pretty sure he was a zero as a person.
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 06:15 PM
Response to Reply #76
84. Exactly.
But tossing single payer BEFORE negotiations started was mind-bogglingly stupid. Naive to the max. Frankly, I want MORE attitude from him. I want lots more of WE WON. And I want him to use that on the Blue Dogs. I want him to ask them why they think their constituents voted Dem and not Rep in the last election.

And then I want him to toss their asses to ravening wolves.
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katkat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 10:00 AM
Response to Reply #6
26. Re: He was surprised by how jews responded to the demand that Israel stop building in it's capital.
Actually, his "demand" is to stop the ethnic cleansing of Palestinians from the Palestinian section of Jerusalem.
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 01:33 PM
Response to Reply #6
56. Seriously, does it take a rocket scientist to figure out that comparing homosexual sex
to incest and bestiality was going to be a tad offensive?

is anyone believing this? Did he just fall off the turnip truck, or does he think we just did?

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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 09:20 AM
Response to Original message
8. "Left of the Left?" Was that YOU Rahm? n/t
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 01:23 PM
Response to Reply #8
54. I had the same tthought. I doubt there's a huge gap between Rahm and
Obama at this point, though.
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murdoch Donating Member (658 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 01:38 PM
Response to Reply #8
58. By this definition, the majority of the country is left of the left then
http://mediamatters.org/iphone/research/200908060031

Polling shows majority of Americans support public option

Most recent polls show that the majority of Americans support a public option. Recent polling from Washington Post/ABC News, Time, and McClatchy all show more than 50 percent support for a public option; two Quinnipiac polls and a New York Times/CBS News poll show more than 60 percent support; and an NBC News/Wall Street Journal poll shows 46 percent support for a public option:

Quinnipiac: 62 percent support "public option."

Washington Post/ABC News: 54 percent support a "government-run plan."
<...>
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Zhade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-20-09 05:08 PM
Response to Reply #8
111. Like I said -- It's the Orahma administration now.
NT!

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corpseratemedia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 09:22 AM
Response to Original message
9. they're still trying to placate the insane imbeciles who wouldn't support them
no matter what they won't include in the bill

"Left of the left" in this instance comprises most of the population (who know this is the last way to stop
our country from devolving into third world conditions).



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girl gone mad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-20-09 03:28 AM
Response to Reply #9
94. No they aren't.
They are just using town hall imbeciles as political cover so they can carry on appeasing the insurance companies who line their pockets.
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rudy23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 09:25 AM
Response to Original message
10. Sorry Rahm, but this is your fucking Waterloo. You made it that way.
You could've gone along with what 75% of the country and the vast majority of your party wants. Don't try to reframe this shit. You guys are the ones who strayed, not us.
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rudy23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 10:42 AM
Response to Reply #10
35. dupe.
Edited on Wed Aug-19-09 10:42 AM by rudy23
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Vidar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 12:16 PM
Response to Reply #10
42. If only we could send him to St. Helena & live happily ever after!
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 09:26 AM
Response to Original message
11. Sounds like some of the language used is to marginalize us
who want a public option (or orginally single payer) but we are for it because that is where all the FACTS reside. Marginalize us at your peril (we can choose replacements).
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MisterP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 09:38 AM
Response to Reply #11
18. replacement?! ha, ha! we're pulling for the political elite
we'll tell you that you're a small band of nuts, and that we represent what the people really want
and if you try to break ranks, we'll blame you when our GOP buddies take over, and our supporters will tell you that you're fighting "our side"--even though we're pulling for ourselves and our masters
the public is the minority and an impediment to progress: it's high time somebody taught them that

After the uprising of the 17th of June
The Secretary of the Writers' Union
Had leaflets distributed in the Stalinallee
Stating that the people
Had forfeited the confidence of the government
And could win it back only
By redoubled efforts. Would it not be easier
In that case for the government
To dissolve the people
And elect another?
--Brecht, on the 1953 East Berlin protests
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Better Today Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 09:26 AM
Response to Original message
12. I have to admit it took me by surprise, I voted for one of them blue dogturds.
But now that I've had time to reflect, he never actually said what he stood for, or nothing. He was just a Democrat and we all wanted a change, dumb us. Now I know to be cautious of these blue dogs, really track where they are getting their money. In his case it was all very wealthy, known to be DINO's types. It, and other issues with our state Dem party, make me feel like politically naive, and exceptionally discouraged.
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 02:25 PM
Response to Reply #12
65. Did you write and tell him?
Did you tell him you have a LONG memory and will actively support a primary challenge?
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Better Today Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-20-09 10:32 AM
Response to Reply #65
108. The really disgusting part...
he actually sent his supporters a letter full of pride for being an "independently minded" Democrat who wasn't going to go along with the Stim Package or Healthcare Reform. But when one tried to reply, it didn't reply to his emails, it replied to one of the satellite PACs that was used to get him more financing. So I changed the email address to his, and yes mentioned a lack of support. Unfortunately for me, (us), if he doesn't suckle ob the balls of our state party chairman, he won't be getting re-elected either. . . so what's he gonna do?
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pattmarty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 09:30 AM
Response to Original message
13. As sharp as the whole Obama "clan" is, I was really shocked to..............
..........see how they missed on this "trial balloon" over the weekend. They really fucked up on this. I think what HE has to do now is after the congressional "break" is over after labor day, he has to come out more forceful with a more defined plan of what HE would like passed. Quit this wishy washy shit about letting both houses of Congress "hash it out", it's time for him to make his stand.
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MNDemNY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 09:33 AM
Response to Original message
14. I thought they were smarter than that, I guess not.
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Zhade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-20-09 05:11 PM
Response to Reply #14
113. It may be that they thought we were dumber than we are.
NT!

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tomm2thumbs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 09:34 AM
Response to Original message
15. just as long as he rises to the occasion I'm okay with the surprise part - other than that? booooo
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rudy23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 09:34 AM
Response to Original message
16. If I've noticed one weakness in Obama, it's overconfidence in his ability to remake the Dem. party
into a conservative/center-right leaning party. It's like he thinks he can make liberalism "uncool" through the sheer force of his popularity, and be the Reagan of the center-right as far as wooing a new generation of recruits.
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 02:29 PM
Response to Reply #16
66. During the primary, didn't both he and Hillary put Reagan in their top 10 Presidents?
Jeebus, we all should have starting rowing toward New Zealand right then and there.
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rudy23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 03:18 PM
Response to Reply #66
72. Yep. I honestly think Obama's fantasy is to woo "Obama Republicans"
over to the Democratic party--even if it takes making us into the Republican party to do it.
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bertman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 09:35 AM
Response to Original message
17. To paraphrase Barney Frank: On what planet do these so-called advisors live??
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TankLV Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 09:43 AM
Response to Original message
19. I don't understand why the left of the left has decided that this is their Waterloo,
Then THEY don't BELONG in the ADMINISTRATION!!!

"The Left"?!?!!!!

THAT explains fucking EVERYTHING WE have been dealing with all along...

THESE RIGHT WING ASSHOLES are the PROBLEM!!!

if THIS doesn't PROVE how OUT OF TOUCH obama and his IDIOT RIGHT WING advisors are, then nothing will...

sure - they TALK a good story - to the RIGHT WING - and give us LIBERALS and PROGRESSIVES a hearty "FUCK YOU"!!!

well, they'll miss us come election time when they beg for our VOTE and MONEY and get NOTHING!!!
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rudy23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 11:44 AM
Response to Reply #19
41. What's worse, is their seizing on the RW's "Waterloo" comment, to lump us in w/ them
They're trying to create the impression that those of us who insist on a "public option" are as intent on bringing down Obama as the birthers on the right.

Could it be anyone besides Rahm Emanuel?
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Dr Fate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 12:31 PM
Response to Reply #19
46. "Left of the Left" sounds like a characterization Lou Dobbs or Rush Limbaugh would make.
Edited on Wed Aug-19-09 12:32 PM by Dr Fate
Sounds like some of the typical DLC garbage I've heard on DU for years as well.
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LibDemAlways Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 09:44 AM
Response to Original message
20. That well-paid, well-insured "advisor" apparently doesn't know much.
Unless the system is fundamentally reformed to give people access to coverage through a public option it isn't "health care reform" at all. What he's looking at is more properly termed "business as usual after slight tweaking." Not the same and completely unacceptable.

If Obama was truly interested in hiring advisors who understand the issues and what's needed, DU would be a good place to start.
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Demeter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 09:50 AM
Response to Original message
23. "Left of the Left"? We Are Commonly Known as Your Base, Rahm
What an asshole. And you know it was Rahm.

"We're forgetting why we are in this." Couldn't agree with you more, Rahm. YOU'VE never known why your Boss is in office--it sure as hell wasn't because you recruited all those useless, traitorous Blue Dog GOP-wannabes and corporate lackeys.

"Another top aide expressed chagrin that a single element in the president's sprawling health-care initiative has become a litmus test for whether the administration is serious about the issue." DON'T YOU GUYS READ POLLS ANYMORE?
HOW ABOUT THE STATISTICS ON THE STATE OF AMERICAN FAMILIES?

I could scream.
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glitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 10:35 AM
Response to Reply #23
32. His biggest problem is he believes his own spin. Ok maybe not his biggest problem.
The entitled asshole thing is probably his biggest problem. You know, the whole "I know more about health care than Dr. Dean because my brother is an oncologist" crap.
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Dr Fate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 12:28 PM
Response to Reply #23
44. DLC chumps only know how to attack "the left." Too chicken shit to attack their fellow conservatives
Edited on Wed Aug-19-09 12:48 PM by Dr Fate
During the Bush era of the Iraq war- they attacked "the far left" at every chance they got, but kissed Bush's ass and gave into him non-stop. That is just one of MANY examples- and this is more of the same.
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onyourleft Donating Member (327 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 09:51 AM
Response to Original message
24. What surprises me is that an entire...
...group of advisers to the President of the United States could be this out of touch with what is going on in this country today. Perhaps it is time for some new advisers for Mr. Obama as these do not seem to be operating with a full deck.
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Metta Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 09:54 AM
Response to Original message
25. They don't belong in office if they thought constant selling out wouldn't raise any ire.
Shmucks.
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PuppyBismark Donating Member (200 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 10:16 AM
Response to Original message
27. Wake Up Obama - Yes at Least the Public Option
There must be competition for the health insurance industry.
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Donnachaidh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 10:22 AM
Response to Original message
28. well there goes that *Obama's playing chess* meme down the toilet.
Yeah, sure -- he's *got it*.

NOW he does. DUH.
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laconicsax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 10:33 AM
Response to Reply #28
31. I doubt it.
We'll start seeing rationalizing along the lines of "He's just such a master that you can't even comprehend his moves."
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Donnachaidh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 11:09 AM
Response to Reply #31
39. already happening
Sorry, but I'm NOT buying it. Didn't believe that BS from the start. And the backroom deal with Big Pharma clinched it.
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wroberts189 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 10:23 AM
Response to Original message
29. "left of the left" ? Please define... nt
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Dr Fate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 12:37 PM
Response to Reply #29
47. They guys who were right for 8 straight years, opposed by the "centrists" & Repubs who were wrong.
Edited on Wed Aug-19-09 12:38 PM by Dr Fate
Not really "left of the left"- so much as they were just CORRECT on just about everything.

If someone is CORRECT on a major issue of the day, you can be sure that a "centrist" or Republican will oppose him.

I'd say that definition about covers it.

See Iraq, tax cuts for wealthy, DLC opposing "far left" Bush protesters while supporting Bush, general capitualtion to or agreement with the far right that goes on to this day, etc.
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wroberts189 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 12:55 PM
Response to Reply #47
49. copy on that ....nt
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Demeter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 12:44 PM
Response to Reply #29
48. Us Deaniacs. That's Who Is "Left of the Left"
Actually, we ARE the Left, or all that's Left of the Left!

The Good Doctor, Howard Dean, is the true leader of Progressive activism in this country. And he's laughing his head off enjoying Rahm's faux pas.
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wroberts189 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 01:01 PM
Response to Reply #48
51. Yes...I would put the good doctor as the majority opinion. imho
Hell an overwhelming majority support HCIR

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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 02:30 PM
Response to Reply #48
67. I was not a Deaniac but I certainly support him now.
I never do any kind of idolatry. Except the US constitution.
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mvd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 06:41 PM
Response to Reply #29
86. Disturbing terms indeed
Edited on Wed Aug-19-09 06:41 PM by mvd
They never use "right of the right," which is most of the Repuke Party. I expect better from his advisers who supposedly don't want to divide. They'd be much better off trying to compromise with us than the Repukes.
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-20-09 09:10 AM
Response to Reply #29
102. Apparently, "left of the left" means anyone left of what
Edited on Thu Aug-20-09 09:11 AM by No Elephants
Obama is willing to settle (cave in) for--after HE campaigned on public option.
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Hell Hath No Fury Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 10:26 AM
Response to Original message
30. Surprised???
When Presidential candidate Barack Obama insisted that reform MUST include a public option, they are fucking surprised when they get a backlash to hold him to that??

"Senior White House Advisor" -- is that you, Rahm, you sack of shit??
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Response to Original message
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Bluenorthwest Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 10:42 AM
Response to Original message
34. This 'senior advisor' is maybe the stupidest, most over paid
political figure since Mark Penn. How utterly ignorant are these people? It makes me angry that a person is being paid a pile of tax payer's dollars to be a total idiot. I thought we got rid of the Brownie types. What a dolt.
He ran on 'No Mandates' and a pubic option. It morphed into Mandates with no public option. And this box of rocks is surprised when people are not happy with a full reversal of that which got you elected?
Probably paid a couple of hundred grand of our money to be a fool.
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 02:23 PM
Response to Reply #34
64. The "advisor" is not saying he (the advisor) is surprised. The advisor is saying
Edited on Wed Aug-19-09 02:25 PM by No Elephants
Obama. the former candidate who ran on public option and no mandates, is the one who is surprised that we want what he himself promised us.

Obama seems to think that campaign promises end with the campaign and bear no relationship to the Presidency. After all, that's why they call them "campaign promises," rather than "Presidency promises." After Inauguration Day, it's like the campaign never happened.
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rudy23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 10:43 AM
Response to Original message
36. Looks like someone's using "Waterloo" to try and lump US in with the rabid right
I've always thought all along team Obama's strategy was to vilify the left (moderate to left leaning Democrats) so the coalition of "normal" people (DLC sellouts, "pragmatists", GOP wannabes) could govern from the center.

From this "center" they could meet Obama's goals of serving his corporate masters, and being an awesome dude in the White House who isn't as Republican as George W Bush.
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nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 10:44 AM
Response to Original message
37. this wording -- "left of the left" -- is MEANT TO FRACTURE us. Some fucking "leadership" there, Rahm
you assbag.
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Dr Fate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 12:29 PM
Response to Reply #37
45. They are too frightened to go after the real problem- the "Right of the Right" and "centrists".
n/t
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2Design Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 10:52 AM
Response to Original message
38. howard Dean said the public option has to be in it or it is not reform n/t
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-20-09 09:57 AM
Response to Reply #38
107. No matter what,, it's going to be a big payday for insurers and PHRMA. The only quesition is, what
will be in there for human beings?
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BootinUp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 11:17 AM
Response to Original message
40. EPIC FAIL. nt
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Dr Fate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 12:27 PM
Response to Original message
43. The WH needs to worry about the Right of the Right and the "centrists"- not the DEM base.
n/t
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Hestia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 01:26 PM
Response to Original message
55. Oh now, in August, the Public Option is a huge surpise?
"In the last 90 days, it has taken on an aura much more pronounced than it did the first four months of the year," said the activist, who spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss White House strategy. He said Obama's advisers have stoked the controversy this week by creating the perception they were abandoning the public plan.


Who are they kidding? When have we ever stopped talking about the Public Option? Are they really really not paying attention to us out here? How many phone calls, letters, and emails do they have to received before the light bulb goes off? Jeez...they are as wearying as the pugs.
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 02:02 PM
Response to Original message
59. Wow. They really think we're dismissable trash.
I am so disgusted by this.
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Papa Boule Donating Member (363 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 02:03 PM
Response to Original message
60. Left of the left? Left of the left!??
Sigh.
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harun Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 02:06 PM
Response to Original message
61. You can always just get H.R. 676 a vote and pass that.
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tomp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-20-09 08:37 AM
Response to Reply #61
97. the so-called elephant in the room.
there's a progressive bill ready to go. obama just ignores it. ignoring single-payer = FAIL.

obama is not on our side.
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Zhade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-20-09 05:26 PM
Response to Reply #97
114. Which broken promise of his tipped you off?
NT!

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tomp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-21-09 08:49 AM
Response to Reply #114
115. too clever by half.
i couldn't care less what he promised to do or didn't promise to do. i care what's right, and obama ain't. he's a player, and not for my team.

btw, what would possess someone to put nt in the text box? put it in the headline where it will do some good.
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 02:46 PM
Response to Original message
68. I have no clue what Senor Senior Advisor is up to, but there is no way on earth
Edited on Wed Aug-19-09 02:50 PM by No Elephants
Obama could be surprised that the people who elected him, aka "the left of the left," think a public option is a sine qua non.

BTW, I agree with whoever posted that "left of the left" sounds like somehing Limbaugh would say. Rhambaugh.

First, we were Democrats. Then, they wants something that sounded bad, so they used left, which evoked Socialists and Communists, fresh off the McCarthy Era. Or liberal, which they tried so hard to make a dirty word. Then it got to ridiculous lengths like "radical far left wing."

Sorry Pubes. Yiz sound like a bunch of rabid, dithering lunatics, just like your Unca Joe McCarthy. And your little dog, too.

Ugh! Corporatist Republicrats.
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tomp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-20-09 08:41 AM
Response to Reply #68
98. they are surprised they cannot easily get around us.
but maybe a weak public option was the fallback plan to begin with.

perhaps the "chess game" is against us, not the republicans.
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-20-09 09:26 AM
Response to Reply #98
103. Anything is possible. The threat to go with 51 votes may be part of the chess
game against us, too. Let it prove impossible to get something passed using the budget reconciliation process, then pass a POS and say it was the only doable thing and it's better than nothing.

My position is that I want no bill at all without a strong public option. Otherwise, it's just a bonanza for the insurance companies. I email that to Obama every week (which is one of the reasons I'm suspicious of this declaration of surprise.

If the Republicans are calliang war because of the threat to use the budget reconciliation process, which is not fool proof, eff em. Use a real "Power Play," one that will definitely work, namely, the nuclear option. 51 votes to change, for this one issue only, any Senate Rule that requires 60 votes.

But don't do that (or publicize it) until 1 minutes before you are ready to vote on the public option, so they have no time to fight. Take the vote, then bingo, everything is back the way it was.
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emsimon33 Donating Member (904 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 02:57 PM
Response to Original message
70. Because, duh, we don't want another massive give-away of tax $$$$
to insurance companies as we have to the drug companies, first under the Medicare Drug option and now under Obama's secret deal with the drug companies.

Also, Obama campaigned on a public option that would be similar to permitting anyone to buy into Medicare--I was there...I heard him with my own ears!!!!!!!!
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Zorra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 03:32 PM
Response to Original message
73. Bush Dog DINOrat bullshit. Any plan without a strong public option
will be a serious boondoggle for taxpayers and a gold mine for giant health insurance companies as well as the republican party, and they know it.

Who do they think they're dealing with here?
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Robbien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 03:48 PM
Response to Original message
75. Obama not being behind Public Option catches the left of the left by surprise

Obama not knowing that single payor/public option is a deal breaker for the "left of the left" is really no surprise. Obama doesn't talk or hold meetings with the "left of the left". He spends his all his time with GOPers and Blue Dogs.

And if Blue Dogs are centrists and progressives are "left of the left", I wonder who he considers to be just "the left"?
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rudy23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 04:26 PM
Response to Reply #75
79. No one. He is in denial of "the left." He's got that same disease that Clinton had,
the one where the only approval that counts is approval from Republican men with gray hair and nice suits.
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-20-09 09:06 AM
Response to Reply #75
100. He campaigned on public option. I am not buying the surprise.
Maybe what surprised him is that the lemmings (us) and Congress did not follow him off the cliff after he started acting as though the public option was next to nothing.
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SomeGuyInEagan Donating Member (872 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 04:31 PM
Response to Original message
80. Dipshits! Can't they read a friggin' poll?
Seriously, these are the best and the brightest? Time to really put the heat on the White House.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 04:42 PM
Response to Original message
82. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
jimlup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 05:05 PM
Response to Original message
83. This concerns me...
It means the "chess master" theory is bunk. Instead it is just lack of leadership. I'm really worried that the President was on the verge of caving in to the right wingers. That sickens me.
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mvd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 06:37 PM
Response to Original message
85. What's not to understand?
Ending denials based on pre-existing conditions is good. Improving preventative care is good. But without the public option, these things are no more than a band-aid the insurance companies will find a way around. And mandating private insurance only is just very wrong.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 07:26 PM
Response to Original message
87. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 08:24 PM
Response to Original message
89. You've got some 'splaining to do, Rahmbo.
:banghead:
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-20-09 09:32 AM
Response to Reply #89
104. I have a feeling Senor Senior Advisor don't do no 'splaining to anyone, except
MAYBE to Obama, if Obama happens to find out what Rahmbo has been up to that day and asks a question. And even then, Rahmbo gets impatient if Obama asks a follow up question.

Bush had Cheney; Clinton had Rahmbo and Morris; and now Obama has recycled Rahmbo.
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flyarm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 10:29 PM
Response to Original message
90. Ambinder: White House “Won’t Buckle” To Liberal Demands For Public Plan
Ambinder: White House “Won’t Buckle” To Liberal Demands For Public Plan
By: Jane Hamsher Wednesday August 19, 2009 2:33 pm

http://campaignsilo.firedoglake.com/2009/08/19/ambinder-white-house-wont-buckle-to-liberal-demands-for-public-plan/
I know people are reluctant to believe that the President has no plans to include a public option in his health care bill, but according to Marc Ambinder, that is indeed the truth:

The White House and Senate Democrats won't buckle to demands from liberals that they revise their health care strategy, officials said today.

Liberals are demanding the inclusion of a public plan. The White House won't "revise" their strategy to accommodate them.

Glenzilla:

The attempt to attract GOP support was the pretext which Democrats used to compromise continuously and water down the bill. But -- given the impossibility of achieving that goal -- isn't it fairly obvious that a desire for GOP support wasn't really the reason the Democrats were constantly watering down their own bill? Given the White House's central role in negotiating a secret deal with the pharmaceutical industry, its betrayal of Obama's clear promise to conduct negotiations out in the open (on C-SPAN no less), Rahm's protection of Blue Dogs and accompanying attacks on progressives, and the complete lack of any pressure exerted on allegedly obstructionists "centrists," it seems rather clear that the bill has been watered down, and the "public option" jettisoned, because that's the bill they want -- this was the plan all along.

Max Baucus (who is negotiating the White House's bill) today reaffirmed his commitment to have a "bipartisan" bill. Since Republicans will never sign off on a public plan, that's not-so-subtle code for "no public plan." And any time anyone says that, including President Obama, that is in fact what they're saying.
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Amonester Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-20-09 01:00 AM
Response to Original message
91. A one term president seems to be all these right-wing advisors want.
The question is why do they despise all the people on "the left of the left" who elected them so much??

Are they all so insane??
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ProudDad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-20-09 01:25 AM
Response to Original message
92. Proves Obama picked the wrong people
Socially this country is actually "liberal" if you just make the right argument...
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-20-09 02:16 PM
Response to Reply #92
110. Yep. They just don't automatically self identify that way. I didn't, till I came here and
realized I am NOT centrist, which is how I used to self-identify.
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quakerboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-20-09 01:37 AM
Response to Original message
93. "They couldn't have avoided it,"
Um.. Surely could have. Come out the door strong on Single payer. A public option would be a uniting point of compromise if alternative was single payer.
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Steerpike Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-20-09 03:38 AM
Response to Original message
95. I'm part of the extreme left?
Funny I always thought I was a moderate. Well, a socialist moderate; a socialist populist moderate. How can any rational Democrat be against the public option? These people need to get out of policy and pursue a rewarding career in the food service industry.
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girl gone mad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-20-09 03:46 AM
Response to Original message
96. The left of the left..
all 57% of us.

Who knew that the majority of the people in this country are radical leftists? If only there were more buildings named after Reagan and more channels like FOX news. Then we'd all be normal, centrist real Americans. Right, Rahm?
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Hawkowl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-20-09 09:39 AM
Response to Original message
105. Chessmaster my ass
Obama comes off as a fool with this article. He can't be brilliant because as others have pointed out, can't he read a poll? Supposedly a political genius should be able to intrepret a few GODDAMNED POLLS!
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-20-09 09:46 AM
Response to Reply #105
106. Surprise, my ass, may be more like it. Just sayin'
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paulk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-20-09 11:23 AM
Response to Original message
109. the "left of the left"?


these people are really starting to piss me off -

I have defended the DLC and the blue dogs these last several years, because I felt we needed them to take back the Congress and the White House. I have set aside some of my most fundamental political beliefs with the understanding that once we gained that control, those beliefs would come to the fore...

And my reward is to be called the "left of the left" because I want a strong public option? What planet, to quote Barney Frank, are these people living on?

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tj2001 Donating Member (685 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-20-09 05:10 PM
Response to Original message
112. Somebody needs hearing aids
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justinaforjustice Donating Member (519 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-23-09 12:45 PM
Response to Original message
116. The "left of the left" is Now the Center: Medicare for All
The majority of Americans want health care reform -- real reform not more profits to private insurers. Rahm Emanuel is pretty dumb if he doesn't read the polls and the Democratic Party's 2008 platform. Rahm, however, supports increasing profits to private insurers through mandated insurance with no regulations or control over the insurance companies. Sounds like he is a DLC Republican. I voted for the Democrats.


We want full coverage for all Americans: Medicare for All.
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