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steven johnson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-16-09 12:28 PM
Original message
Big Tropical Storms in Atlantic Hit 1,000-Year High
Source: ABC News

The people of U.S. Gulf Coast have felt unusually battered by big storms during the past few years. Now, it turns out their instincts are right.

First named storms of hurricane season have experts warning to be prepared.
More Photos
A new report in the scientific journal Nature indicates that the last decade has seen, on average, more frequent hurricanes than any time in the last 1,000 years. The last period of similar activity occurred during the Medieval Warm Period.
The study is not definitive, but it is a unique piece of work that combines an analysis of sediment cores from inland lakes and tidal marshes with computer modeling and finds a "striking consistency" between the two, the authors suggest.


Read more: http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/JustOneThing/story?id=8332131&page=1
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Psephos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-16-09 01:41 PM
Response to Original message
1. First named Atlantic storms this year just formed, two and a half months after start of season
Which is very late.

Individual years mean little; the trend is your friend.

Best evidence still correlates Atlantic tropical storm rates with overall solar output more than other factors. There is a lag due to heat-sink effects of the ocean/atmosphere system, and decade-scale oscillations.
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nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-16-09 02:19 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. translation? ocean temp correlates, but a stronger correlation is solar output heat?
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ohio2007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-16-09 04:09 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. "The study is not definitive"
which means they are reaching for straws to say global warming is going to start up again since the solar activity cycle is about to shift gears ;)

remember these same experts said the Arctic ocean was to be ice free in 2008....... and we were going to average ten major hurricanes a year starting with katrina from now until the greehouse turns us into another planet Venus
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Chemisse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-16-09 07:09 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. Global warming is going to start up again?
Where have you been? The polar ice is melting at a rate that has shocked scientists, who previously made far more conservative estimates.

I just went to a talk by a scientist who just returned from Greenland. He had photos of RIVERS pouring out of the ice.
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Psephos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-16-09 09:11 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. The ocean drives atmospheric temps, not the other way around
That's because the mass of the ocean is vastly, almost unimaginably, larger than the mass of the atmosphere. (It's like comparing how much heat your body holds versus how much heat your breath holds.)

On the other hand, the atmosphere can move heat around more quickly than the ocean because its currents ("winds") are much faster than the ocean's. (However, compared to the ocean, the atmosphere compensates a bit for its lack of mass through its velocity, and is a bigger player in climate than you might guess based on its mass alone.)

The ocean is not warmed by wind, it's warmed by direct solar radiation. Sunspot activity has been remarkably low the past few years, much lower than the normal low during an average 11-year sunspot cycle. No one really knows why this has happened just now, but it has happened before in recent history. For example, there was an extended period of low sunspot activity during the Little Ice Age, during roughly 1550 to 1850, during which Europe and North America had considerably harsher winters and cooler summers.

This is actually a decent wiki article on it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_Ice_Age

Fewer sunspots are associated with lower solar output. It's not by much, somewhere between a hundredth and a tenth of a percent difference in total energy output, but it's enough to change Earth's climate rather markedly, because it causes the net energy content of the oceans to fall. Again, remember that it's the heat stored in the oceans that acts as the primary driver of climate.

That's why the total average temperature on Earth leveled off and then slightly declined over the past six or eight years. The effect is larger than the greenhouse effect of rising CO2 levels, and it has masked it.

If sunspot activity stays weak, we will not see as much global warming from greenhouse gases compared to a normal sunspot activity cycle. If sunspot activity grows even weaker, we will see global cooling.

Hurricanes form from concentrations of heat in the surface waters of the tropical Atlantic. If the net heat content of the oceans is a bit lower than normal, we might see a dampening effect on storm formation. The machinery behind this is complex, and it's not possible to make a direct correlation, but all things being equal, less available heat in the ocean tends to mean less available heat for storms. Individual regions may vary considerably from this due to local effects of currents, geography, and other influences.

Climate is immensely complex, dependent upon a deep web of connections and feedback loops that most of us are unaware of. One thing can be stated with certainty. There is no single-variable correlation (i.e., single cause-and-effect relationship) between any of the many climatic influences and the resulting climate state. Those who oversimplify lead us away from answers, not toward them.


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percussivemadness Donating Member (733 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-17-09 02:18 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. You may be interested in this theory
http://www.djpauledge.com/v2/blog.php?id=160

Just an excerpt

Looking at the temperature record for the last 100 years, something immediately struck me as odd. Circa 1945, in the great post-war economic boom, one can see from the widely available charts, that although carbon emissions rose quite dramatically as is to be expected, temperatures fell. I`m not a scientist by any means, but that struck me as very illogical if we are to believe the claims of the pro-Global Warming lobby. In the temperature record/solar activity chart for the last 400 years, temperatures on the planet effectively mirrored solar activity, however circa 1985, temperatures rose despite a leveling off of solar activity. If temperatures are rising despite a leveling off of solar activity, the claim is it must be carbon emissions. Well must it? As I have previously stated, carbon emissions rose dramatically between 1945 and 1985, however temperatures dropped. Many of you reading this blog will remember the "ice-age is coming" hysteria of the early 1970s, this was because temperatures had dropped annually for 30 years. So one has to ask the question, what if it isn`t carbon emissions?

Please don`t shoot the messenger :)
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nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 08:57 AM
Response to Reply #6
9. thank you for the explanation! i never associated sunspot activity w/warming --
always thought it just had to do with magnetic storms.
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Hissyspit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-16-09 01:59 PM
Response to Original message
2. Here at Netroots Nation they screened a movie for us, "The Age of Stupid."
It is not the best anti-global warming movie ever made, but it takes an interesting approach, so check it out if you can:

http://www.ageofstupid.net/

http://www.treehugger.com/files/2009/03/the-age-of-stupid-review.php
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dysfunctional press Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-17-09 02:10 AM
Response to Original message
7. it sure would be SWEET to see hurricane Bill tear up limpballs ocean-front compound...
here's hopin'.
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Hugabear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 11:15 AM
Response to Reply #7
10. What a stupid fucking thing to say
If your "sweet" scenario were to happen, then it would affect hundreds of thousands (or millions) of other people. Limbaugh could easily ride out the aftermath in a mansion or condo somewhere else in the country - most other people, not so much.

Your post is about as ignorant as a fundy saying how nice it would be for a hurricane to hit New Orleans to punish gay people.
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dysfunctional press Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 11:50 AM
Response to Reply #10
11. if it has to hit somewhere- it might as well be there...
besides- it would be a nice change of pace to have something on the news besides all the back-pedaling on healthcare.
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