Kucinich Predicts Retreat On Health Care Reform

[Algorem]

Source: WCPN

Friday, August 14, 2009

Much of the controversy surrounding health care reform has swirled around the so-called public option - a government insurance plan that would compete with private insurers. Congressman Kucinich wants the public plan to be the ONLY option; in other words, a single payer government system for everyone. Kucinich has for years been pushing such a plan. He says the problem with the U.S. system is the layer of bureaucracy imposed by insurance companies. Cut the private health insurers out of the mix, he says, and affordable, universal coverage is within easy reach...

Kucinich says anything less amounts to just a subsidy to the insurance industry. He’s a co-sponsor of House Resolution 676, introduced early this year by Michigan democrat John Conyers. It’s a bill that would extend medicare, the single payer government insurance plan for seniors, to all Americans. So far only 85 house members have signed onto the single payer bill, and for now it looks to have little chance of gaining much traction.

But Kucinich thinks the outlook this year for ANY reform looks bleak.

Kucinich: “I don’t think there will be a bill brought to the president’s desk. I think that it’s been mishandled and that we need to go back to the American people, and I’m certainly ready with John Conyers and 83 other members of Congress to push for our single payer proposal. But we have to show people why it’s important. We need to listen to them first about their tale of woe.”



Read more: http://www.wcpn.org/WCPN/news/27450/

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http://www.wviz.org/WVIZ/feagler

http://www.ohiochannel.org/programming/programs/index.cfm?program_id=47

[CaliforniaPeggy]

1. How right he is.

K&R

[Babyserendip]

53. Indeed.

[Strong Atheist]

91. Welcome to DU!

:toast:

[ProSense]

2. “I don’t think there will be a bill brought to the president’s desk." Yay

Kucinich's wishful thinking.

[John Q. Citizen]

5. Obama advocates bribing the insurance industry so they will stop excluding on

pre-existing conditions and stop annual and life time caps, and so they stop rescission, and so they will agree to some sort of modified community rating.

He said that explicitly today at the meeting in Montana in reply to the 2nd to the last questioner.

I'm opposed to bribing the criminal scumbag insurance industry. I think it's very bad goverment policy. It's as bad as the bush Medicare D bribery. It's not reform, it's crony capitalism.

I respect Obama for being honest in his answer, but i disagree with him.

[Laelth]

8. Hear, hear! n/t

:dem:

-Laelth

[cyclezealot]

34. Krugman today tells Obama hopes of Non partisanship was naive..

Obama the compromiser. Meaning he has to compromise with the special interests that run the Goopers. He's done enough of that..
What the Country needs is a FDR that will take head on the special interests that own the Goopers.. Would Kucinich as president so embarrassed the insurance lobby: we'd have Single Payer. He takes no prisoners.. Yet, he knows the limits the political punch. A Kucinich fan, Studds Terkel said Kucinich was up to the bully pulpit. I think Kucinich would have had what it takes to put down the Goopers.
I wonder is any Democrat is up to the power of lobbyists.. Even the strength of FDR and the power of media moles such as Fox a challenge.?

[Wizard777]

3. I think Dennis is wrong about health care not passing. But I think he's right about single payer.

One step at a time. As any insurance salesman will tell you. You have to get your foot in the door first.

[Eric J in MN]

18. Obama wants to sign something this year, and he will.

Whether the health care reform bill is good or bad, the White House will pressure enough members of Congress to get it passed this year.

[dhpgetsit]

21. Maybe. But will the next step take another 40 years?

I think we should be pushing a lot harder for 676.
I think there should be a general strike called, and marches that dwarf anything we have ever seen before.

[Wizard777]

87. That depend upon Congresses ability to keep the lobbyists from cornering them.

Then when Congress starts serving the other "people" AKA Corporations. Doing things that ultimately bankrupt the system. America's will have to wise enough to not say, hey we're going to scrap health care and keep the morons that bankrupted it. No we're gonna keep health care and put the morons that bankrupted it in jail. They need to incorporate Gore's lock box into this. That will prevent Congress from earmarking the superfund into insolvency. That will be win/win for Congressmen trying to bankrupt it. They will be collecting from the insurance lobby to bankrupt that fund by any means. While collecting political capital from the earmarks they spend it on.

But if the program does well and out paces private insurance in the competition. By offering better policies at the same price or for less. Then 676 is a natural step. Everyone will be clamoring for that good government insurance. So if Dennis and his cosponsors want to create the milieu for 676 to manifest in. They have to be the guardians of the superfund. The need to ballistic every time someone want to take the health care allotment for Compton to build the Senator Vain Sonovabeche Medical Center in Beverly Hills. The Government health care has to build from the bottom up. Not trickle down from the top. Because it doesn't matter if it's a socialist ladder or a capitalist ladder. The guys at the top get the ice cream and the guys at the bottom get the stick. So we need to station the ice cream man on the ground instead of the roof. It's the only way to get rid of that damned superfluous ladder to put everyone on equal ground.

[karynnj]

64. I agree with you,

and would add that Kucinich is distorting what most mean when they say "public option". I think he has a problem with seeing where compromise is possible - seeing only the bill he supports, which cannot pass either House of Congress, as the only solution.

I would contrast this to others like Kennedy and Kerry, who have both also said at different times that they would personally favor medicare for all, but who have for years worked to find passable compromises. Though many here prefer the "purity" of Kucinich's position, there are millions of kids in the last decade who had insurance via the compromise SCHIP legislation that would not have had it had these two men refused to compromise to get Hatch and other Republicans.

The fact is that - unless a significant number of Kucinich's allies or Blue dogs vote against it, we will get a bill that will make major improvemnets to the current system. Things already agreed to are:

1. Pre-existing conditions can not be used for denial or for higher rates. So the people most in need of insurance are not excluded.

2. Everyone can buy into a big group plan. By pooling the risk, large group plans are much cheaper than individual or small business plans. If the costs are lower, more small businesses will be open to providing it.

3. New subsidies for people from the Medicaid threshold to 4 times poverty will make whatever plan they buy more affordable.

These are major gains that would have looked impossible in 2005.

[bkkyosemite]

4. Obama said today he agrees with Baucus on Health Insurance Reform and he does not agree with Single

Payer. Said it as if he was talking to me and others who want HR 676.

He also said that he feels the insurance companies should be in the mix.

Said some things today I do not agree with.

[ShamelessHussy]

9. I agree that single payer is the best option but I also think Obama has a point, too.

It would be hard to get such a radical change, look how hard it is to just get a public option.

They BETTER get that through, though!

[bkkyosemite]

10. That radical change would be a lot easier than the one he is for. Just take the insurance industry

control out...but then again most of Congress and the Senate have been bribed by them.

[karynnj]

65. Not true

From Dean's site, there are 37 Senators who will vote for a public option. As to single payer, Sanders has no co-sponsors. You can likely count on the fingers of one hand Senators who ever said they would vote for single payer. Kerry was right in telling the single payer advocate that the votes were simply not there and there were too many Senators who were not persuadable because of their own ideologies. Now, that 37 is the number committing before there is a bill, when other options are still on the table. I suspect that that number rises if it is the final bill. Many, not on the list, will likely then vote for the bill with it in.

[No Elephants]

70. Isn't HR 676 single payer? It currently has 93 co-sponsors.

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d110:HR00676:@@@P

[karynnj]

80. Yes it is - I was speaking of Sanders bill in the Senate which has none

I should have been more specific. I don't think it could pass the House, but I am certain it can not pass the Senate.

[midnight armadillo]

12. If NOW isn't the time for a radical change, when is?

You have a new president with a mandate for change, and the opposition party is serious minority status. When will be a better time than now?

Oh yeah, 20 years from now after Obama, Pelosi, and Reid screw this up like Clinton did.

[ShamelessHussy]

29. After they they get the less radical change of the public option passed

I will be surprised if they can even pull that big first step off... after 8 years, and measurable progress on that option and continued bad results from the private Ins. companies, leave that as a platform for the next Dem admin to campaign/build on.

[cyclezealot]

36. It's a death grip between Obama and the insurance lobby.

Seems the insurance lobby is stronger. No. if you get health care it won't include the public option. With no public option you don't have change , you only have a public bail out of a corrupt medical/pharma/ insurance complex.

[ProudDad]

38. Except there IS NO viable public option in the House Bill

And there is NO "public option" at all in the Senate bill...

See, the way this works is that you ask for A -- they Offer Z and you get M

But if you're like the goddamn Dems in Congress -- you ask for M and get U...

In other words, if there's a bill passed at all -- it ain't gonna change much...

Those bastards will compromise away nearly all of the (little bit of) good stuff in the house bill, the stuff holding the insurance company's feet to the fire and fighting off the drug company's larceny...

Maybe in another 4 to 24 years...

Just remember, another 20,000 DEAD for every freakin' year they compromise with the REAL Death Panels -- the god damn insurance mafia and Big PhRMA...

[karynnj]

68. the Senate bill is not written yet

There is a public option in the bill that passed HELP, there likely will be no public option in the Finance committee bill as only 6 of the 23 members of that committee are for it. Those two bills need to be then combined to one bill. No one knows what will be in their final bill.

[No Elephants]

71. Obama was pretty clear: Baucus's bill is the one to watch.

[ProudDad]

122. Which is VERY, VERY bad news

for the sick and weary millions in the USAmerikan Empire...

[ProudDad]

118. Betcha' $100 - no public option....

Betcha' $1000 - no VIABLE public option that can begin to get the leeches in the insurance industry the fuck out of our health care!

[No Elephants]

60. Obama lost his support on this issue.

[Lorien]

107. Not from Democrats. Only from Beck's followers

If Obama doesn't deliver on this issue then the entire Democratic party will suffer for it for decades to come, and the opposition--the ones who aren't clueless-know it.

[karynnj]

66. He did not run on single payer

There are many areas where he is making major changes from the direction we were going in.

[No Elephants]

72. He did not run on deals with insurance companies, hospitals and PHARMA, either.

[karynnj]

83. True

Though I am willing to give him the benefit of the doubt - realizing that that is what I am doing - at least for the next month as Congress works on their bill.

I supported Obama in 2008 mostly because I eliminated all other possibilities. I had hoped he would side with Kennedy. (Just as I hoped he would side with Kerry more than others on foreign policy) I still think Obama has the potential to be the best President in at least 40 years for Democrats. Sadly, the competition is not stiff.

[Lorien]

102. Actually someone here DID post a an Obama quote from before the election

that stated "I support a Universal single payer system". I hope that person will post 1t again.

[Enthusiast]

55. That is the point.

The public option is not an option. The insurance industry doesn't want it so we can't have it.

[No Elephants]

74. The groundwork for it was never done or the public would be clamoring for it.

[ShamelessHussy]

109. If we can't even get a public option that competes with the Ins. companies then what do we get?

It doesn't seem worth the effort if we can not at least get a public option.

And if we can't even get that 1 vital item passed I will take it as a final sign that the Dem's are truly no longer a party of the people and in big need of change themselves.

However, considering how rigged the system is against the people (M$M, the GOV. and corporate lobbyist and propaganda, electronic voting) I wonder if will even be possible absent some crisis, even larger than the ones we are in now (economy & banks getting away with their scams, 2 ongoing wars, healthcare)?

Come on Dem's. It ain't over yet... nothing has been package yet into a bill so I will still be applying pressure and hoping for the best.

[Enthusiast]

116. Yup, I seriously wonder

if the American way of life isn't already long gone. We will see what kind of legislation they end up with.

I have feeling it will be some weak assed watered down thing that congressional Democrats and the President try to convince us is wonderful.

[Lorien]

106. Baucus needs to go. Now.

disgusting excuse for a "public servant".

[Laelth]

6. k&r for the Honorable Dennis Kucinich. n/t

:dem:

-Laelth

[notesdev]

7. Nothing will be done

and the primary reason is that everyone in a position of power is bought out. First, we must chase out the fraud and corruption from our political and economic system and only then will we be able to have any hope for change.

[countmyvote4real]

Very disappointing. And just heard on Bill Maher:

"One way to tell that your party is a bunch of pussies is when they're bullied by a chick on facebook."

[No Elephants]

69. Anyone else sick of "balls" being used for courage and "pussy" being used for cowardice?

[GoddessOfGuinness]

79. ~raises hand~

:thumbsup:

[mbperrin]

82. Yes, especially since the gender with balls seems to be mostly

responsible for fucking things up. Just my observation.

[Lorien]

104. And whimping out. nt

[Lorien]

103. Hell yes. Sibel Edmonds, Racheal Corie, Barbara Boxer and a million other

women have ten times the nerve that most of the ball bearing congress critters on Capital Hill.

[countmyvote4real]

11. Very disappointing. And just heard on Bill Maher:

"One way to tell that your party is a bunch of pussies is when they're bullied by a chick on facebook."

[EVDebs]

92. Great one-liner ! I'm stealing it ...

BTW, Obama's covering up for Cheney because Cheney did a totally covert (from Congress too & w/o oversight) operation to actually enable further Pakistani nuclear operations. This is why Brewster Jennings was outed, along with Valerie Plame.

How the U.S. Has Secretly Backed Pakistan's Nuclear Program From Day One
by Andrew Cockburn, June 4, 2009
http://www.counterpunch.org/andrew06242009.html

"“Most of the aid we’ve sent them over the past few years has been diverted into their nuclear program,” a senior national security official in the current administration recently told me. Most of this diverted aid -- $5.56 billion as of a year ago – was officially designated “Coalition Support Funds” for Pakistani military operations against the Taliban. It may be that this diversion came as a terrible shock to Washington, but the money has been routinely handed over essentially without accounting being required from the Pakistanis. The GAO has huffed at items such as the $30 million shelled out for non-existent roads, of the $1.5 million for “naval vehicles damaged in combat” but that was as far as public complaints went. In the meantime, as Joint Chiefs Chairman Admiral Mullen confirmed recently, the Pakistanis have been urgently increasing their nuclear weapons production.

A former national security official with knowledge of the policy explained this insouciance to me. “We want to get in there and manage . If we manage it, we can make sure they don’t start testing, or start a war.” In other words, the U.S. is helping the Pakistanis to modernize their nuclear arsenal in hopes that the U.S. will thereby gain a measure of control. The official aim of U.S. technical support, at an estimated cost of $100 million a year, is to render the Pakistani weapons safer, i.e., less likely to go off if dropped, and more “secure”, meaning out of the reach of our old friends the extremists."

The longer Obama supplies 'cover' for Cheney the bolder Cheney will get in hammering him, with Obama getting nothing in return and deeper in being an accessory after the fact. Not too bright for a Harvard grad.

[Akoto]

13. Apparently, he's not plugged in to current events.

I generally like Kucinich a great deal, but I don't agree with him here. That's setting aside the fact that I do believe we're going to get something done, if only because the administration has made health care central to its agenda.

While a single payer system may seem like a wonderful option to those of us who ponder such things, most citizens don't. Look at the havoc that's broken out in response to the public option. So many people are confused about what it does (Communism! Socialism!), crazy protesters are running wild at town halls, and powerful organizations - like the insurance and pharma industries - are carrying the rest of the water when it comes to sabotage.

Single payer would be an even greater shift in how our health care system functions. I agree with the other poster upthread, who stated that single payer is a fine idea, but that we'd have greater odds of success if we took matters one step at a time. Get a public option, and we have our foot in the door for superior things.

[unkachuck]

16. "...if we took matters one step at a time. "

....we didn't 'one step' our way into Iraq or Afghanistan....we had those trillion dollar useless wars jammed down our collective throats all at once....

....it's now time we jam a Single Payer system down the insurance industrys' throat and let them go chase tornadoes for a living....

....listen Democrats, there are no more excuses, failure is unacceptable!

[Iowa]

33. Well said. I agree. n/t

[bvar22]

97. We didn't get Social Security one step at a time.

We didn't get Medicare one step at a time.

For each of those a STRONG President stood up and said, "THIS is what we are going to do."
The Special Interests worked hard to protect their profits, but The American People STOOD behind those Presidents who Took a STAND.

I won't stand behind a President who "cuts deals" with the Special Interests.

[heidler1]

28. I agree. This is a lot like Social Security. FDR was forced to go minimum to get it through

Congress. FDR had a huge Dem. advantage in Congress, but the Dixiecrats were against it. Now they call themselves Blue Dog Dem's. Red Dog Dem's. would suit me better. It's either do it incrementally or fail completely.

[ProudDad]

40. The House bill is a giveaway to the insurance mafia

There is no senate bill worth a damn...unless you like the MASS failure...

We'll get shit this time around...

Thanks, Barack...

By the way there is NO COUNTRY ON EARTH THAT "STARTED FROM SCRATCH" (Except Taiwan -- they looked at all the systems and went STRAIGHT to single-payer)... So thanks for the cop-out bullshit, Barack! :puke:

[unkachuck]

14. Single Payer, YES!

....but how do we convince some of these slimy corporate Democrats to support it?

[ProudDad]

119. First - you deprive them of their seat

then you put in REAL progressive Dems.

Simple...

[Doctor_J]

15. Harry must go

he's a poor speaker, a door mat, and too right-wing.

[daggahead]

17. Dennis is always so on point. He's one of the handful of true statesmen.

If "Health Care Reform," ends up being a deal with insurance companies, it will get ugly.

[Joe Bacon]

19. Stick a fork in it. Health care reform is dead

Conrad said NO to the Public Option and he will work to stop it. WIthout a Public Option, the rest of the bill becomes just more welfare for the insurance companies.

We will have to wait another 15-20 years to try to fix this system again. The Republicans won.

[ProSense]

20. Two reasons why those points are irrelevant

Conrad Spokesman Denies Earlier Report

Howard Dean: Dems Will Pass Health Care Reform Through Reconciliation, Without Republicans

[Hissyspit]

22. Howard Dean said today: "The public option is the compromise. We've already compromised."

[Blue Rain]

25. Reconciliation....

may not work, that is, parts of the bill could be stripped out. And from reading it, it seems like a good possibility. The Byrd Rule.

[Joe Bacon]

67. Wrong, Conrad has not denied what he said.

http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/08/conrad-says-hell-vote-against-the-public-option.php?ref=fpb

http://campaignsilo.firedoglake.com/2009/08/14/senator-conrad-says-hell-vote-against-the-public-option-in-senate/

Now, John Murtha says health care reform may not get completed at all

https://twitter.com/stevebruskCNN/statuses/3316234947

[laughingliberal]

101. Hard to say

Both stories about Conrad are from August 14. Only one is time stamped but the one where his spokesperson denies he said that does seem to follow the one announcing he will vote against the public option. Still, he is one of the Blue Cross Dems stalling action in the Senate.

[Joe Bacon]

110. Kent Conrad: Public Option a "Wasted Effort"

Look at the linked discussion. His aide lied.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x4017301

[John Q. Citizen]

115. Kucinich seems better versed in politics than you are. Just saying.

[Telly Savalas]

117. For somebody well versed in politics, he's remarkably ineffective at getting anything done.

[John Q. Citizen]

121. I did an analysis last year of bills voted out of committee and Kucinich compared favorably

with people like Pelosi.

Until 2006 Kucinich was in a Repo run house. He was the only Democrat to win a Repo seat in 1994. That body stayed run by the Republicans until 2006.

So there wasn't much opportunity for progressive Democrats to get anything done.

Even still, he's done alright. I know that's not the myth you would like to put forward, but do the research and you will see that your myth doesn't stand up to the facts.

[SleeplessinSoCal]

27. Who in hell is Conrad anyway? And why should he be the one with all the power?

[wundermaus]

23. What was single payer, grandpa... did it mean food?

[LibDemAlways]

24. Obama isn't even talking about health care reform. He's talking about

health insurance reform - big difference. Based on what I heard today he is looking to make a few changes in the way insurance companies do business. I heard nothing about providing health care for all.

[pecwae]

58. No one seems willing

to stop calling it 'health care reform' and call it what it is-health insurance reform. Even 'health insurance reform' will be watered down into meaninglessness and may make matters worse.

Of course, I'm just a DK 'supporter' and apparently that equates with troll by some.

[LibDemAlways]

63. Obama has recently been calling it health insurance reform. It's a subtle

but very important difference and a signal that he's backed off from real reform that would get those many millions insured. Until the government steps in and provides the means to insure everybody, all that will be left are those baby step insurance reforms - common sense stuff that should have been in place years ago. I fully agree with you. DK is one of the few who is thinking about the needs of the public. Obama seems more interested in the bottom line of the insurance companies.

[mbperrin]

81. I'm with ya! DK sticker on my car yet, and if you think that doesn't

raise an eyebrow in west Texas, come on out and look!

Only thing that saves me is that I'm a native, grandparents came here in 1922, so I'm "allowed" to be a bit nuts...

Single payer is the only option that will actually provide health care for all. What a radical concept! Wonder what the co-pay was on raising Lazarus from the dead?

[SleeplessinSoCal]

26. Kucinich is wrong!!! Get the public option first. See how it flies. In 4 to 8 years

go for single payer.

[Blue Rain]

30. If Reconciliation is used...

it seems there is a good chance the 'public option' and other elements of the bill won't survive the Byrd Rule.

From wikipedia...

Reconciliation generally involves legislation that changes the budget deficit (or conceivably, the surplus). The "Byrd Rule" (2 U.S.C. § 644) outlines what reconciliation can and cannot be used for. The Byrd Rule defines a provision to be extraneous in six cases:

* (1) if it does not produce a change in outlays or revenues;
* (2) if it produces an outlay increase or revenue decrease when the instructed committee is not in compliance with its instructions;
* (3) if it is outside the jurisdiction of the committee that submitted the title or provision for inclusion in the reconciliation measure;
* (4) if it produces a change in outlays or revenues which is merely incidental to the non-budgetary components of the provision;
* (5) if it would increase the deficit for a fiscal year beyond those covered by the reconciliation measure, though the provisions in question may receive an exception if they in total in a Title of the measure net to a reduction in the deficit; and
* (6) if it recommends changes in Social Security.

If a provision violates the Byrd Rule, then any Senator may raise a procedural objection and unless 60 Senators vote to waive the objection, then the offending provision will be stripped from the bill.

----------------

I'm not qualified to determine if any of the provisions in the legislation that the different committees have passed pass or fail the Byrd test
but it seems success via Reconciliation is very questionable.

[Hippo_Tron]

51. There's a lot of grey area there

And also the point of order has to be sustained by the presiding officer. Given that we are the majority party there is always a Democrat presiding.

The key is that anything that goes through reconciliation has to sunset in 10 years. So if we're going to do this through reconciliation it had better be a good bill so that public sentiment is favorable when it's time to renew it in 10 years.

[avaistheone1]

32. Many of us don't have 4 to 8 years to wait for single payer.

The health care system is going to collapse if we stay on the same path. Forget the bandaid, go for single-payer now.

[winyanstaz]

41. Too many people are dying now...people's lives cannot wait...

nor should Americans have to go without the care they need another 4 to 8 years! That is just more bullshit by our politicians serving big insurance companies. We deserve health care now.

[ProudDad]

43. For the hard of hearing

THERE IS NO VIABLE "PUBLIC OPTION" IN THE HOUSE BILL...

THERE IS NO "PUBLIC OPTION" IN ANY SENATE BILL...

We've been fucked again by the insurance mafia, big PhRMA, your corporate capitalist masters and their lackeys in both Houses of Congress and the White House!!!

Stick a fork in us, we're done...

And 20,000 more of us will die every year from lack of health "insurance"

And more thousands to make a big profit for the insurance corporations.

[eridani]

59. It isn't flying anywhere at all if it doesn't start until 2013 n/t

[Doctor_J]

62. It's called appeasement, and the the appeaser always ends up giving up more

as we have been doing for 30 years.

[No Elephants]

75. People will be furious because any other than single payer will cost more, benefit

insurance companies and fail.

[IndianaGreen]

90. We already have a Single Payer system in place. It is called Medicare.

All we need to do is expand Medicare to everyone!

[bvar22]

98. If we got a REAL "Public Option", I would agree with you.

Public Option = Publicly Owned, Government Administered Health Insurance Option open to ALL who want it.

That is NOT the "Public Option" that is contained in HR 3200. the current Bill in the House and the ONLY Bill to be scored by the CBO.
The misnamed "Public Option" in HR 3200 is NOT available to The Public, and is not much of an option.

If HR 3200 is what passes, REAL Health Care Reform will be killed for another generation, and THAT is what the Health Insurance Industry is counting on.

MILLIONS will be FORCED to buy expensive, worthless policies from the For Profit Health Insurance Industry for a long, LONG time.

[Lorien]

105. If not now, Never.

That's what the Big Insurance companies are counting on; Dems losing their nerve, AGAIN.

[Vidar]

31. For once I hope Dennis is wrong, but I fear he's right.

[RoccoR5955]

35. Dennis should have been president.

He would have made damn sure that single payer made it.
Now we will have to settle for, at most, a watered down version that will only make the insurance companies richer.
Dennis, and a few other congress critters are truly working for WE THE PEOPLE, and not them, the corporations.

Kucinich/Sanders '12

[laughingliberal]

37. Of Course He's Probably Right

My big concern right now is not that reform will be defeated although I have fought, hoped, and prayed (just in case) for reform to our profit driven system. My big fear is that we will get stuck with the Senate Finance committee bill. As I read between the lines, I see they will mandate everyone buy insurance. Although much is made of the fact that insurance companies will be forbidden to deny people on the basis of preexisting conditions, I see nothing to rein in the amount they can charge for premiums. Although one of the House bills proposes subsidies to help people pay premiums if they are at up to 500% of the poverty level, the Senate Finance committee bill proposes limiting this to people at 300% of the poverty level. Add to this the fact that the committee seems determined to kill any public option to provide more affordable coverage and this appears to be shaping up to be a huge giveaway to the insurance companies and a big hit on the working class. They also propose a fine for people who do not obtain coverage leaving those who can't afford it paying a fine and still without access to healthcare. I would love it if someone can tell me this is a big nightmare and that President Obama is not going to go along with this but his insistence on getting bipartisan support is starting to look like we're getting a Republican style, screw the workers' type of reform.

[winyanstaz]

39. Thank you Congressman Kucinich!

And once again...this man is a giant stepping forth for the American people. A voice of reason and sanity in a world gone mad.
If all the other nations that have single payer think it is so good they keep voting for more of it....why cant America have it as well?
If we spent a fourth of what we waste on the war on drugs or even one of these endless wars...we could pay for health care for all.
And for those twits that are screaming it is a socialist program...damn right it is...medicare IS a socialist program, so is social security and our police and fire departments. So why not medicare for everyone?
These twits are trying to make social programs the new "N" word? Just like they tried to blacken the name of liberalism and Democrats. To hell with them and the Beck they rode in on. America needs and deserves health care NOW! And we need to kick the insurance companies right out of the mix! Those savings alone would practically pay for it.

[laughingliberal]

42. Getting Rid of the Insurance Companies Would be My First Choice

Profit isn't the most important thing to your insurance company-it's the ONLY thing.

[Enthusiast]

56. Thank you, winyanstaz. +1

[Allyoop]

100. Kucinich

Have you ever visited www.govtrack.us/congress - click on members of congress and enter Kucinich

Very interesting how successful he has been at introducing bills and getting them passed.

[ProudDad]

44. For the hard of hearing...

THERE IS NO VIABLE "PUBLIC OPTION" IN THE HOUSE BILL...

THERE IS NO "PUBLIC OPTION" IN ANY SENATE BILL...

We've been fucked again by the insurance mafia, big PhRMA, your corporate capitalist masters and their lackeys from both right-wings of the Corporate Big Business Party in both Houses of Congress and the White House!!!

Stick a fork in us, we're done...

And 20,000 more of us will die every year from lack of health "insurance"

And more thousands will die to fatten the profits of the insurance corporations.

But the business of USAmerika is business... :puke:

[laughingliberal]

47. As much as I hate it

That's the way it's shaping up. We are so screwed.

[seabeckind]

45. We must have single payer from a fiscal standpoint

We spend $1 of every $6 of our nation's economy on healthcare (notice I said economy, not budget). Within the next 10 years or so it will be $1 of every $5 if we maintain the status quo.

Assuming we keep private, unregulated insurance companies in the mix and drug companies that also are not regulated and permitted to set their own prices and maintain patents for an extended time and we are on the road to economic disaster. These companies are NOT putting that money back into the economy, or not much of it. A CEO making $10 billion a year doesn't go to Walmart for clothes, he goes to HongKong or London.

Add into this mix an aging populace, shrinking workforce (taxpayers) and a reduced taxable income base (at the rate we're going everyone will be minimum wage who isn't a CEO) and things get even more bleak.

We absolutely must eliminate the overhead cost of middlemen insurance companies, institute true cost savings in drugs like the europeans do (ie, banning advertising to consumers, eliminate dependence on OTC drugs, etc), add in the other costs saving measures in care as well as standardization at the infrastructure level, and we can reduce our cost to around $1 out of every $8 or $9 (SWAG). Assuming a spending of $2.3 trillion dollars a year for healthcare, that's a whole bunch of money saved -- and spendable by people who do shop at Walmart. (Course we have to get the stuff at Walmart to be made in the US - but we'll save that for next month).

If we keep letting corporations set the agenda and make the rules we won't be able to print money fast enough. Laissez-faire must end. It didn't work the last times and it's not working this time. All we are doing is selling off or mortgaging our country to pay the multinational corporations.

We must do single payer now. If we put it off for 10 years we won't have enough money in the kitty to pay the Indian contractors to convert the files.

As a side issue we must rebust those trusts (bring TR back from the grave if we have to) that so permeate our society today. It is past time to do that wealth redistribution again. Obama tried to do what FDR did -- but he skipped the tax the shit out of the rich part.

Ok, rant off.

[Enthusiast]

57. It is called corporate rule.

Now that the media is only promoting corporate interests we will not see change.

[No Elephants]

76. Great points.

[lildreamer316]

88. Great post.

Very well said, thank you. Marked for reference.

[Lorien]

108. Great points

:thumbsup:

[ProudDad]

123. Hear, Hear!

:applause: :applause:

Good points.

[onestepforward]

46. I adore Dennis, but I hope he is wrong on this one. n/t

[gimberly]

48. Wouldn't this benefit employers in a huge way?

I would think that businesses and schools would love the idea of a single payer government system since they would no longer have the expense of providing health coverage as a job benefit to all employees. AL

[laughingliberal]

49. That's always been my thought

It's whacky that business is not more supportive of this but I think the ones who don't cover employees are worried they will be taxed to help cover the cost.

[Blue_Tires]

50. k+r

[luigimom]

52. Single Payer

I am a former nurse, raised my family alone, and a long time
political activist who has been pushing for single payer for
decades.  It is the only system that will cover everyone but I
know we are not going to get there any time soon.  Why?  Deep
pocket insurance lobbyists!  Yes, it is appalling that money
interests can deny hard-working Americans the basic medical
care that is their right while Palin and the other
death-eaters manufacture controversy about non-existent
provisions under consideration.  Yes, the system we have now
is twisted and immoral - huge profits for a few and hard
working Americans live in fear of an illness that could
bankrupt them.  And yes, I really, really wish our elected
"leaders" would grow a backbone and fix this mess
now!!

And I share Kucinich's disgust that we will have to at best
settle for incremental change.  But here is the thing - my
daughter, and millions of other Americans get up and go to
work each day at jobs where they either can't get or can't
afford insurance.  Because of this, they wait beyond all
reason to get medical care.  They live in dread of an illness
that will bankrupt them.  If they do go to the doctor, their
diagnosis and treatment is limited by their lack of insurance.

So I am quite ready to not just hold my nose and grudgingly
accept what might come out of Congress this year.  We get
maybe one chance in 20 years to do this and we need to take it
now.  We need to get out there and make more noise than Sarah
and the other crazies.  We can't shame them - they have none. 
We just need to get it done as well as possible and especially
fight tooth and nail for the public option, which is the one
thing that might keep the insurers honest.

[Tarheel_Dem]

54. Disagree with Dennis, as usual. He seems to have a lot of "support"

on a message board, but that hasn't seemed to translate into a lot of action, on the part of single payer advocates. Where are the marches, the protests for single payer? Where is the uprising? Why aren't they making their presence known at these townhall meetings, like the anti health reformists? Are they scared? Are the keyboard commandoes willing to take to the streets, by the thousands, before a bill reaches the president's desk? Or is this just more pissing & moaning, because you can?

For all those who have opined that Dennis would have ended the wars, passed single payer, and passed out ponies by now, I call bullshit. Some may like him on the left, but Dennis is seen as the Michelle Bachmann of the left. He has a following, but not enough to make a difference, outside his district.

[No Elephants]

61. Dennis is correct that single payer is the way to go, but he is also correct that this has been mis-

handled. You do have supporters starting to pack those meeetings, but they will support whatever Democrats ask them to support.

BTW, Obama has lost support in general, though he still has a majority BUT, on the issue of health insurance reform, he does not have even a majority. So say the polls anyway.

[mulhollanddriven]

73. We will get crumbs as usual

We will end up with the equivalent of some spare change thrown on the curb for us to pick up.

The only thing that puts a smile on my face is knowing that these insurance companies aren't going to stop and consider whether or not you have been a good little soldier for the Repubs when they decide to deny your claim. The insurance companies are going to deny you and let you die even after your cute little appearance at the townhall defending their wonderful system.

Good work, useful idiots! Checks in the mail! Honest!

:dunce:

[laughingliberal]

77. Crumbs Would Be an Improvement over Current Proposals

The current proposals are going to leave us with a mandate to purchase insurance and, with no public system to control costs, it will be out of reach for most working families. The Senate bill proposes fines for those who fail to obtain coverage. I've seen nothing that would prevent the insurance companies from charging whatever premium they choose.

[mbperrin]

84. Correct! There is no mechanism to control what they charge, and if

they agree to not deny, they'll claim costs jumped up hugely and will mandate higher rates for everyone! Whee!

This will end up being as big a disaster as mandatory liability auto insurance in Texas, where the fine for not having insurance is larger than driving 90 in a school zone, running a red light, or driving while intoxicated first offense.

The law did create a cottage industry which sells cards to indicate that you have coverage for about $50 per month. Don't dream of filing a claim, though. There will be no payment forthcoming.

You never saw an insurance company headquartered in a short building, didja?

[laughingliberal]

85. The difference between this and mandated auto insurance

A person could conceivably get around this by not driving (not too practical, I realize) but there is no way around the health insurance mandate. We all have a body.

[mbperrin]

93. I agree! It's a disaster waiting to happen. Mandatory insurance is not

universal health care.

It IS big profits for insurance companies.

[The Stranger]

78. I'm sure glad Majority Piece of Shit Harry Reid decided to wait to pass health reform.

That was the kiss of death, and Obama knew it. Given enough time, the corporatists and their infantile hoi polloi would scuttle the whole thing.

How sad.

[laughingliberal]

86. So ashamed Harry Reid is my Senator

If his intention was to give us more time to get better reform that would be admirable. But his reason was to give the Senate Finance committee more time to work on the corporate giveaway bill they are working on now to screw workers and families.

[EVDebs]

89. I'm voting for Kooch in 2012...Obama's 2% solutions are giveaways to BigPharma nt

[slipslidingaway]

94. knr nt

[defendandprotect]

95. Dems should call out suppoeters . . . as the GOP is doing -- !!!

Where are the rallies --??

Where is the organization -- ???

Where are the labor unions -- ???

Where are the women's organizations -- ????

Where is anyone -- ????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

Hello . . . Dems . . . ??????????????????

[defendandprotect]

96. There was an article up about 20 mins ago which I've lost . . .

with a big quote from Bill Clinton ...

his and Dem Party's effort to "prepare" liberals to lose "public option" --

Basically it's . . . LIBERALS WANT A PONY!!!

[EVDebs]

99. We're all busy at our jobs from 8am - 6pm and the rest, they're taking corporate lobbying $ nt

Our 'Blue Cross' Democrats.

[DebbieCDC]

111. Right again Dennis

He's the only one who "gets it", it seems

[EndElectoral]

112. The man's been right since the beginning, and the media makes him a kook

[New Dawn]

113. K&R - single payer is the only just option.

[democracy1st]

124. how in the world do you get rid of insurance companys?

[Zorra]

114. I hope he's wrong, but he has an incredible track record of being correct

in his projections.

[ProudDad]

120. That didn't take long...

2 Days and Dennis is proved correct:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x4017164