Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Computer scientists reveal new voting machine hack successfully changed votes

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Latest Breaking News Donate to DU
 
AsahinaKimi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-12-09 03:25 PM
Original message
Computer scientists reveal new voting machine hack successfully changed votes
Source: Raw Story

Computer scientists reveal new voting machine hack successfully changed votes
By David Edwards and John Byrne
Published: August 12, 2009

A team of computer scientists at University of California, San Diego, the University of Michigan and Princeton University announced a new way to electronically steal votes Monday.

“We wanted to find if a real criminal could do this, starting from scratch, with no access to source code or other closely guarded technical information,” the announcer begins. “We faced several challenges: getting a voting machine, figuring out how it works, discovering a weakness, overcoming the machine’s security features and constructing attack software.”

“In the end we found that it is possible to undetectably change votes and that such an attack takes a lot less time and money than one might expect,” the announcer said.

A Princeton professor was able to acquire five voting machines for just $82 that had been resold on a government surplus website. The acquired machines were originally sold by Sequoia Voting Systems.




Read more: http://rawstory.com/08/news/2009/08/12/computer-scientists-reveal-new-voting-machine-hack/
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
Zorra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-12-09 03:30 PM
Response to Original message
1. Dennis Kucinich once said:
"An open and honest examination of the flaws in electronic voting will lead us to only one possible conclusion: electronic voting machines are dangerous to democracy because there is no way of ensuring their accuracy".

Yep.

It's past time for our Democratic Congress to pass a Constitutional Amendment forbidding the use of any electronic voting apparatus in any Federal, State, County, or local election.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
brendan120678 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-12-09 03:50 PM
Response to Reply #1
8. The only problem I foresee with requiring...
paper balloting, is that in today's fast-paced, 24-hour news lifestyle, people will be upset if they don't get the results immediately after the polls close.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Kelvin Mace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-12-09 03:55 PM
Response to Reply #8
11. Paper ballots can still be
machine counted, then randomly hand-counted to verify machine accuracy.

It's the law in our state.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
brendan120678 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-12-09 04:03 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. That's true.
We actually do the same here in Connecticut.

Optically scanned ballots that are computer tabulated, and the ballots stored in case of recount.

Additionally, a certain percentage of the ballots have to be recounted by hand at a later date to verify the computer tabulating results.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
merwin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-12-09 04:18 PM
Response to Reply #11
15. How random is random though?
Ohio did a random sample as well, and look how well that turned out.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
SharonAnn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-12-09 07:53 PM
Response to Reply #15
24. Aaah, but Ohio's wasn't random, and then didn't actually check paper ballots.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
merwin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-14-09 02:11 PM
Response to Reply #24
35. That's what I mean. The people of Ohio thought that they had a random recount.
And look where it got them.

We can never get a truly fair electoral process unless all of the bums are thrown out... and that won't happen until the electoral process is changed.

Nice Catch 22 there.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
JHB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-13-09 04:20 AM
Response to Reply #11
26. Even better if the machine counting were just considered a preliminary count...
...but the official count was a hand counting of all the ballots.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
GoddessOfGuinness Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-12-09 04:06 PM
Response to Reply #8
14. Maybe people need to learn that some things require patience
and accuracy.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Zorra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-12-09 05:11 PM
Response to Reply #14
17. Yep. And the counting of votes is absolutely one of those things that requires
accuracy.

This country was brought to the brink of ruin as a result of an inaccurate vote count in 2000.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
KakistocracyHater Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-12-09 07:14 PM
Response to Reply #17
22. yes & look here these people are upset about
"the direction America is going", do you think they mean the last 8 years? Or is it just since their guy went out?

http://wefollow.com/twitter/912
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
kenfrequed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-13-09 08:51 AM
Response to Reply #8
29. To hell with that.
I am sorry but Democracy isn't supposed to be easy. It is grown up stuff that is supposed to be considered and rational. Hell for that matter you could probably save a lot of money and get a lot of people in and out of the polls faster if you just installed good old fashioned voting booths and tossed the damned machines.


For that matter is there not a certain time where faster is no longer better?

Is fast food better?
Was the passing of the largely unread Patriot act better because it was done faster?
Are Cliff notes the superior of the they are supposed to represent?
Is the ability to Fast-track trade deals a good thing?

And is 24 hour cable news really a better thing?

There are some things that need to be digested and considered in life.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
brendan120678 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-13-09 08:55 AM
Response to Reply #29
30. I don't disagree with you...
I'm just saying it seems like everybody in today's "modern society" wants instant gratification.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
drm604 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-13-09 11:08 AM
Response to Reply #8
31. Then let them be upset. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-12-09 03:38 PM
Response to Original message
2. K & R.
Albeit, I accidentally hit unrec!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Umbram Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-12-09 03:43 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. The irony! (nt)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
kentauros Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-12-09 03:45 PM
Response to Reply #2
6. No, you actually hit the rec button
but the software on the site changed your vote :P
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Libertas1776 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-12-09 03:46 PM
Response to Reply #2
7. I tried to
recommend this threat but when I clicked rec, all it did was vote for Pat Buchanan :shrug:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
jmowreader Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-12-09 05:59 PM
Response to Reply #7
18. Are you a 79-year-old Jewish woman who lives in Palm Beach County?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
young_at_heart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-12-09 03:39 PM
Response to Original message
3. Could this happen with an ATM machine or any store transaction?
I think not!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
kentauros Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-12-09 03:44 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. Technically, it could
but the financial institutions make sure it won't by not allowing Diebold to make the software proprietary (as I recall it being explained at one time in the past around here...) That way, the banks can ensure the security of their systems.

Why can't we the people have this kind of software security?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Downwinder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-12-09 03:58 PM
Response to Reply #5
12. also why you get a receipt.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
eridani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-13-09 04:49 AM
Response to Reply #3
27. Actually it could, but it doesn't make any difference
You can't have a secret ballot with a transaction number linking a ballot to your name. With ATMs and banks, there is a unique transaction number linking buyer, seller and bank. If there is a screw-up, you have months on end to get it corrected. You have no way of finding or correcting a ballot, and people keep insisting on speed over accuracy for vote tallies.

BTW, Diebold boasts of its open source software on its website--for ATMs, that is. Elections departments put up with shit that no bank would tolerate for a second.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Kelvin Mace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-12-09 03:53 PM
Response to Original message
9. I love this paragraph
“We wanted to find if a real criminal could do this, starting from scratch, with no access to source code or other closely guarded technical information,”


"closely guarded technical information"????!!!!

You mean like the source code for Diebold's programs sitting out on unprotected public FTP sites?

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Stevepol Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-12-09 06:31 PM
Response to Reply #9
19. "A real criminal"? You want to find one. We got your real criminal right here.
What about Jeffrey Dean, who had spent five years in the slammer for using computers to embezzle a good chunk of money from a law office, before becoming (a few years after his release) the senior vice-president of the firm that was bought up by Diebold as GEMS, Global Election Management Systems, the group that programmed the Diebold machines in their debut in GA in 02. It was quite a debut by the way. Max Cleland who had a 5% lead in pre-election polling, was defeated by about 8% points, a 13 pt flip, and Governor (ex-gov) Roy Barnes, who had about an 11-point lead in the same pre-election polls lost by 5 % points, an 11-point flip.

Incidentally, the judge who sentenced Dean specified that Dean should never be given a job that involved the counting or management of money.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
The Sushi Bandit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-12-09 03:54 PM
Response to Original message
10. Sorry: Not LBN!
Edited on Wed Aug-12-09 03:55 PM by The Sushi Bandit
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
spirit of wine Donating Member (228 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-12-09 04:23 PM
Response to Original message
16. Ah, to be a republican now - ouch!
When it rains it pours Does this mean 8yrs for naught? heh, heh, heh.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
chollybocker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-12-09 07:03 PM
Response to Original message
20. Ironically...
“We faced several challenges: getting a voting machine, figuring out how it works, discovering a weakness, overcoming the machine’s security features and constructing attack software.”

These were never 'challenges' for the original GOP insiders who designed and programmed the voting machines.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
annabanana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-12-09 07:06 PM
Response to Original message
21. Now is the time that we should push for reform..
You KNOW we would always win if the votes were fair!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
JohnWxy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-12-09 07:30 PM
Response to Original message
23. recommended, bookmarked.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
loudsue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-12-09 11:44 PM
Response to Original message
25. kickin it
There is still a question in my mind as to how many votes were stolen in this past election. For every one republican vote at my precinct in 2008, there were AT LEAST 70 Dem votes. The final tallies for our county sure didn't reflect it. I have a feeling it happened far & wide.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-13-09 07:13 AM
Response to Original message
28. There is absolutely no justification for 'TRADE SECRET,' PROPRIETARY programming code
in our voting systems. None! Zero! Zilch! It is INSANE.

Add to this--ADD TO THIS!--that there are virtually NO audit/recount controls anywhere, and you have a "made to order" system for stealing elections.

The key to how this insanity was unleashed upon us is that NO REQUIREMENT for audit/recount controls was included in the Anthrax Congress legislation which appropriated $3.9 million to fast-track these election theft machines all over the country, during the 2002 to 2004 period. Thus, Diebold (now "Premier"), ES&S, and Sequoia--the big three, all with rightwing connections--were free to lobby the states for NO CONTROLS AT ALL, and got that in most cases. Currently, in the best states, only a 1% audit is done. In about half the states, there is still no audit at all.* This is, to repeat, insane. It is insanely non-transparent. It is insanely anti-democratic. It is insanely tyrannical. It gives to private, highly political, rightwing corporations the power to "play the system" any way they wish, in the interest of war profiteers and global corporate predators. Is it time to blame a Democrat for the mindboggling thievery and other crimes of the Bush Junta? Let an Obama win, and start the corpo/fascist media drumbeat against him just about now, maybe squeeze the poor some more and get some food riots going, or fund/organize some rightwing brownshirts to disrupt town halls--create civil disorder-- then Diebold him out of office and bring in Hitler II (for whatever purpose they want--the final destruction of the progressive American middle class; Oil War II-South America, etc.) Is a "Blue Dog" Congress needed to help curtail Obama's reformist tendencies? Natch! No problem.

'TRADE SECRET' code is not the only thing wrong with our election system, for sure. But it is the final blockade against democracy, barring any significant reform, including election reform itself. Without transparent vote counting, we have no hope at all of any significant change.

-------------------------------

*(By contrast, Venezuela's electronic system is run on OPEN SOURCE programming code--anyone may review the code by which votes are counted--they, of course, have a paper ballot backup, and they conduct a whopping 55% audit (automatic hand-count) as a check on machine fraud. The code in our system is a SECRET. We do not have the right to review it. AND, the results it produces are essentially NOT AUDITED. Maybe that's why Venezuelans have had universal medical care for some time now, free university educations, good contracts with the oil multinationals that give the people of Venezuela a 60/40 split of the profits, food and education subsidies for the poor, grants and loans to small businesses and worker co-ops, high voter turnouts and high levels of citizen participation in government and politics, $143 billion in international cash reserves due to careful, intelligent management of the economy, and 60% approval ratings, among the Venezuelan people, on the direction of their country, on the state of their democracy and on the Chavez government. That's what transparent vote counting can do. They have it. We don't. And you wonder why our corpo/fascist press demonizes Chavez? It's because they hate democracy. They really do. And our war profiteers want that oil.)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
dccrossman Donating Member (530 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-13-09 12:02 PM
Response to Original message
32. Another website covering the story
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
hunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-13-09 01:01 PM
Response to Original message
33. "...five voting machines for just $82..."
:rofl:

I love it when my prognostications are correct.

Unless the whole lot of them are sent to the acid pits of developing nations for recycling I'm looking forward to buying a couple for my own personal computer museum. Five for $82 seems a good price.

I'm going to program the machines to ask you to insert your credit card so you can send money to Bev Harris, purchase a Clinton cigar, and put a Republican in office.

As they tally up your vote they'll play a little video of Ann Coulter firing a big automatic weapon topless.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Zorra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-13-09 04:20 PM
Response to Original message
34. kick for congress to do something about this right now.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Thu May 02nd 2024, 04:15 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Latest Breaking News Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC