Ford Explorer, Other SUVs Lead 'Clunkers'

[sabra]

Source: Fox5Vegas

'Cash For Clunkers' Spurring Sales Of Smaller Cars

Those car buyers taking advantage of "Cash for Clunkers" apparently can't get rid of their Ford Explorers quickly enough while smaller cars are flying off dealership lots.

The No. 1 vehicle traded in under the program, according to the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, was the 1998 edition of the Ford Explorer. But the Explorer's presence on the list doesn't stop there. Between the two previous model years and the following one, the Explorer represents the top four spots on the list.

The top eight on the list were all SUVs, with the Jeep Grand Cherokee and the Jeep Cherokee breaking up Explorer's run at No. 5 and No. 6 respectively, followed by the 1995 and 1994 model years of the Explorer at No. 7 and No. 8.

Rounding out the bottom of the list was a pair of late '90s minivans in the 1997 Ford Windstar and the 1999 Dodge Caravan. All 10 vehicles on the list were produced by U.S. car companies.

Read more: http://www.fox5vegas.com/automotive/20289907/detail.html

[TheCowsCameHome]

1. I can't wait to see the first Hummer drinking sodium chloride

to render the engine useless.

[Warpy]

2. Fools who had enough money to waste on those things

will keep them garaged and hope they turn into collector's items the way the Edsel did.

Don't expect much to happen to those hogs.

[Wickerman]

3. You might be right, but it will be a long wait

I was recently at an auction and a Hummer didn't sell. Perfect condition, low miles. 60k+ vehicle, the highest bid was 8k which the auctioneer refused.

[TheCowsCameHome]

7. A picture of just one being crushed be enough make me happy.

I'm easy.

[DainBramaged]

18. I guess it's OK for you that the Japanese make nearly A DOZEN gas pigs that get the same or worse

millage as a Hummer?

[TheCowsCameHome]

22. I just think Hummers suck, in terms of looks and what they represent.

They are the ugliest vhicles on the planet, and they reek of the "look at me" crowd.

[DainBramaged]

29. But the Japanese gas pigs are OK?

Why do I waste my time?

[TheCowsCameHome]

38. No, they aren't.

I just hate Hummers in particular.

[DainBramaged]

40. You're a waste of my time.

Buh Bye. No wonder this country is in the shitter. It's OK for the Foreign crap to be as inefficient as a Hummer, but you hate the Hummer.

There is a part of your body that embodies you completely.

[TheCowsCameHome]

43. OK, enjoy your Hummers.

Meanwhile, I'll be enjoying my four sensible GM vehicles.

I'll leave before you blow me in to the mods, like you usually do.

[Zhade]

47. Hummers say one thing -- "I'm an ugly American who doesn't give a fuck about others".

They're the very symbol of low-info selfish entitlement.

[DainBramaged]

49. So does the Nissan Armada, Titan and all of those mega-dollar land yachts

An example of how totally misdirected your hatred is.

May of 2006, 4,737 Hummer H2's were sold

August of 2006 (could not find May sales) 10,212 Armadas/Titans were sold. But I guess those people give a fuck?

[DainBramaged]

17. Uh, they aren't seizing the motors, and what about all of the Japanese and German gas pigs?

I love the Anti-American car bias here, you obviously don't know anything about cars except what is fed to you in the press or on DU




They ALL get the SAME, similar or worse millage as a Hummer? Don't they deserve your scorn too????????

Toyota Sequoia
Toyota Land Cruiser
Toyota FJ Cruiser
Toyota Highlander
Toyota Tundra

Nissan Armada
Nissan Titan

Lexus GX and LX

Honda Ridgeline
Honda Odyssey
Honda Pilot

Mercedes-Benz G55 AMG
Mercedes-Benz ML63 AMG
Mercedes-Benz SL65 AMG
Mercedes-Benz GL550 SUV
Mercedes-Benz G500 SUV
Mercedes-Benz SLR McLaren Roadster

Bentley (all)

Ferrari (all)

Porsche (all)

[Ikonoklast]

21. Uh, yes they are seizing the motors.

They drain all the oil out and put in a sodium silicate solution, then run the motor until it seizes.

The solution turns to glass, rendering the motor useless.

[TheCowsCameHome]

24. Thank you. The recyclers are up in arms over this.

They want to put the engines back to work, which defeats the program.

[DainBramaged]

25. Uh, no, sorry I KNOW first hand the rules have changed

The junk yards are refusing to take the cars seized, which also complicates them moving them around prior to parting them out. Because the titles are MARKED Junk automobile, cars.gov, they can never be re-registered.
'
If you had access to the dealer side of the cars site you'd have known this, there.

[Ikonoklast]

27. Link?

I had breakfast Sunday with employees from two different auto retailers, and they were seizing motors as of last week.

One Ford, one Chevy, one service director, one used car manager.

[DainBramaged]

28. It was on the front page of the dealer side of cars.gov Monday

Dealers aren't required to seize the motors now, only to get certification from the salvage yards, but that is going to change after intense lobbying by the salvage yards. How do I have access, I am SYSADMIN and Administrator of the CARS program for the dealer I work at and have been scanning documents and filing for payments since last week. I am finished for the day and am going home,. The cost to the dealers is not covered anywhere in the program, and the dealers may be selling cars, but they aren't making money. No one here gives a shit about that.

[high density]

32. ?????????

http://www.cars.gov/dealer item 3

"Dealers may now choose to disable the engine of the trade-in vehicle after they receive payment from the government for the credit (not more than seven calendar days after payment). However, until the vehicle’s engine is disabled, the dealer must store the vehicle at a location under the control of the dealership."

http://www.cars.gov/files/amendment.pdf

The amendment does not change the requirement that the dealer disable the engine before the trade-in vehicle is transferred to the disposal facility or salvage auction.

(FR Doc. 2009-18835 Filed 08/03/2009 at 4:15 pm; Publication Date: 08/05/2009)

There is nothing that says they don't have to disable the engine that I can see.

[Ikonoklast]

33. I just got off the phone with my friend, the service director.

I'll be politer than he was.

He said you are full of it.

[DainBramaged]

35. Whatever, we haven't blown up a single one out of 31 (as of today since 7/24)

The rules are changing DAILY, and since I'm the administrator at my dealership, tell your friend the service manager he's wasting his time as you are wasting mine. The last amendment allows destruction after receiving payment not before as previously published, and probably by next week it may be gone. Since you're calling your friend the Service manager maybe he has access to this document too?


The rule makes substantive changes and a conforming amendment related to the timing for disabling trade-in vehicle engines. The rule also makes a technical amendment to the requirements and procedures for identifying salvage auctions and disposal facilities. Finally, the agency clarifies the application of the insurance requirement under the CARS Act.

http://www.cars.gov/files/amendment.pdf

The agency has determined that the requirement for a dealer to disable the engine prior to submitting an application for reimbursement could create an undue hardship for a dealer in some circumstances. For example, a dealer operating in good faith may conduct a non-compliant transaction under the CARS program and extend a credit that is disapproved for reimbursement after the sale or lease of a new vehicle to a customer. If the engine of the trade-in vehicle has already been disabled under these circumstances, as the rule currently requires, the dealer would not only forgo a CARS credit reimbursement, but also be unable to recoup the full value of the trade-in vehicle to mitigate its loss.
With these considerations in mind, this final rule amends the provision relating to the timing of the dealer’s disablement of the engine of the trade-in vehicle. The agency is removing the requirement that the dealer disable the engine prior to submitting an application for reimbursement and replacing it with a provision that allows engine disablement before or after submission of the application for reimbursement, but in all cases prior to leaving the dealership or property owned by or under the control of the dealership.


http://www.wsaz.com/home/headlines/52547887.html (ONE Article)

Salvage Yards Fear 'Cash for Clunkers'

The fate of the "Cash for Clunkers" program continues to sit in the hands of the U.S. Senate. In the meantime, local dealerships have seen boosts in sales.

But local salvage dealers are worried the program will kill their sales. The government requires car dealers to destroy the engines of all cars traded in for the program to promote a greener environment. Those engines are the heart of the salvage yard business.


Eaves Auto Salvage Yard in West Huntington is among the places that would be affected. Its owner Gary Eaves has a couple hundred cars on the lot that provide thousands of dollars in parts. His biggest seller is the engine. He currently has about 75 to 80 on the lot and can easily get up to $1,000 for each one. But, "Cash for Clunkers" could put a big dent in his business.

“There won’t be any engine parts for us to sell," Eaves said. "Not only that, there won’t be any more older cars out there if everyone buys new and their cars are under warranty.”



I've been working 11 straight days including Sunday I'm going to take a nap, argue among yourselves all you want.

[TheCowsCameHome]

39. Ik, don't waste your time.

Believe me.........

[Ikonoklast]

41. Yep.

Not all there, his own post calls for disabling the motor...

[high density]

31. I guess local dealers here didn't get the memo

(Mechanics) drain the oil from each vehicle, then pour a sodium-silicate solution into the engine, the government-approved method of making sure no one will ever be able to drive it again. They drive each vehicle to its final resting spot on the lot and rev up the engine to work the solution into the crankshaft bearings.

http://pressherald.mainetoday.com/story.php?id=275011&ac=PHnws

Most junkyards I know have flatbeds to haul vehicles that don't run.

[ingac70]

37. If they are marked junk....

they can be re-registered under a salvage title.

[TheCowsCameHome]

23. I read the motors will be seized, and recyclers are bitching already.

[DainBramaged]

26. You didn't answer my question about the foreign gas pigs

you really think I'd let it go?

[TheCowsCameHome]

42. Junk them, too.

They're phallic symbols, just like the Hummer.

[FarCenter]

34. I checked EPA ratings on kbb.com

Hummer H3         14/18
Honda Pilot       16/22
Honda Odyssey     16/23
Honda Ridgeline   15/20
Toyota Highlander 17/23

Feel free to look up some more.

By the way, there appears to be no EPA rating for the H2 Hummer. But it is allegedly a lot worse than the H3, which is basically a GM pickup with funny sheet metal.

[DainBramaged]

36. I see you passed on the Nissan Titan and a few others

but that's ok, the japanese are revered here. So a vehicle getting ONE MPG better city isn't as bad as a Hummer? You folks are just ridiculous.


Check these

Toyota Sequoia
Toyota Land Cruiser
Toyota FJ Cruiser
Toyota Highlander
Toyota Tundra

Nissan Armada (from the cars.gov site) COMBINED MPG 14, what was that about the Hummer?
Nissan Titan

Lexus GX and LX

[FarCenter]

44. How about the H2 Hummer, at around 10 miles per gallon

Although, since it is over 8500 pounds, GM doesn't have to submit an EPA mileage figure.

[DainBramaged]

45. (sigh) You mean the H1 not the H2 which weighs OVER 8500 pounds

and is a diesel and an offshoot of the military vehicle, many of which are/were used industrially not just for going to the grocery.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hummer_H1

GM announced that 2006 would be the last model year for the Hummer H1, with production winding down in June 2006 due to a new emission law for diesel engine vehicles, which took effect in 2007.


http://www.amgeneral.com/


You need more than KBB for your info.

[FarCenter]

52. No, I mean the H2 is over 8500 lb GWVR

Therefore -- General Motors is not required to provide official H2 fuel economy ratings due to the vehicle's GVWR.<5>.

See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hummer_H2 and the Fuel Economy paragraph.

[Synicus Maximus]

46. The Hummer H3T is on the list of Eligible New Cars

http://www.edmunds.com/cash-for-clunkers/new-car-candidates.html#h

who would have thunk it?

[Synicus Maximus]

48. The Hummer H3T is on the list of Eligible New Cars

http://www.edmunds.com/cash-for-clunkers/new-car-candidates.html#h

who would have thunk it?

[Lagomorph]

51. Well, you can actually...

trade in your Jeep and buy an H3 on the program.

[boomerbust]

4. Buy Ford

2011- Ford Focus Electric will come to market. Still time to buy into Ford at 8.50 a share.

[blue_onyx]

10. If I had the money

I would have bought Ford stock a while ago.

[Lifelong Protester]

13. I still have my 2000 Ford Focus

the European model, before Ford 'dumbed it down' to the American market. I am holding out for the electric or hybrid Focus. It is a damn good car. Mine looks like new. It is a wagon, which I would think has a lot of appeal for families yet today. I don't have kids, but my husband and I like the convenience of putting groceries in the back by lifting the hatch, better than a back seat or trunk. And the two of us don't need a bigger vehicle. We have traveled all over the midwest and east coast in this car.

And we bought Ford at around $5.70.

My husand has a 1994 Ranger, 5 speed. A real workhorse of a truck. With a replaced box (salvaged) and wheel well 'covers', it, too, looks like new.

[WriteDown]

14. Dumbed it down?

Please elaborate.

[Lifelong Protester]

15. Sure thing.

We looked at Focus models from later years (we thought we'd trade up about 2005-06) and they took all the design flair, I guess what sells better in Europe, and made it bland. My dash board has better instrumentation, for one thing. And the exterior of my 2000 has better lines. Now for some, this is not an issue, but for us, we like the original Focus.
The European model type like I have, has tighter European style suspension. You can really feel the road under you when you drive, and the ability to shift down with a button on the shifter really makes this a car for hills and mountains. We recently drove it through West Virginia and it was fun.
Driving the later models, the suspension is 'mushy'. It might be a matter of taste, but I like the 2000 model which if I remember correctly, was Car and Driver's "Car of the Year" in 2000. Ford could do worse than to go back to the origins of the Focus and redesign the newer models on their Euro chassis. I think that is what Mulalley intends to do.

[WriteDown]

16. A couple of things...

Lines and looks are a matter of taste....

European suspension won't pass American safety standards which is why 99% of American cars suspension feels "mushy." Like pizza, this has thus become the regions preference.

[sofa king]

30. Europeans often insist on better instruments and better suspension.

I seriously doubt that most American drivers even know what R.P.M. stands for, much less what it means.

Back in the late 1980s I used to work at a high-line car dealership, and I was astounded to learn how huge the "gray market" was for European models. While Benz and BMW were hawking their pricey cruise-ships in America absolutely loaded with intricate electronic crap sure to break ($500 for a rearview mirror on a BMW these days), they were selling the same models with non-leather seats and roll-down windows for half the price of the American models, and they had more power and better suspensions to boot.

Part of the reason is that the cars have to be loaded with cheap electronic crap in order to offset the duties and tariffs America imposes on foreign cars (that's one reason you can't buy a nifty little 660cc Japanese car that gets 40mpg--they can't tack enough crap on them to turn a profit). Part of the reason is that American roads are wider and straighter but less well maintained. They therefore lend themselves to the soupy "boat" suspensions to which we are all accustomed. And part of the reason is that before any foreign automaker tries to sell a car in America they let a swarm of American lawyers crawl all over it and explain the thousands of dollars' worth of modifications that need to be made so they can be sold without inviting lawsuits.

[liberalpragmatist]

50. The next Focus WILL be the same as the European version

In Europe the Ford Focus is an affordable, well-engineered and stylish small car available in hatch, sedan, wagon and convertible bodystyles. It also features latest technologies such as a Powershift dual-clutch transmission, flex-fuel engines, a folding hard top roof (cabrio models only), and a range of efficient diesel and petrol engines. Its American counterpart on the other hand has been around since the late ’90s and misses out on most of the options available in Europe.

For the next-gen model due in late 2010, Ford will develop just one Focus model in line with its new global product development strategy. The cars will have unique styling and specifications to suit major markets but 87% of parts will common across the fleet, as revealed by Ford product chief Derrick Kuzak last month.

> http://www.motorauthority.com/preview-2011-ford-focus.html

[Lifelong Protester]

53. Hey, thanks for the photo and text

I like what I am seeing here!

[havocmom]

5. Good! One more benefit of the program:

Guzzlers be gone!

[krispos42]

6. No surprise there

The Ford Explorer was the runaway champ in SUV sales in the 90's.

[Gormy Cuss]

8. And that's why it should be called "Cash for Guzzlers" not clunkers.

It's not a bad idea to get them off the road - I just wish it had a more appropriate name. Too bad the program isn't attractive to people driving the real clunkers, people who can't afford a brand new car but could upgrade to a more fuel-efficient and more reliable newer used car.

[blue_onyx]

11. It's not that the program isn't attractive to people with clunkers

A lot of people with old clunkers have vehicles that have an mpg ratings that's too high. On our local news, an older lady was very upset that her 20 year old Buick (or Oldsmobile...I can't remember) doesn't qualify because of its mpg rating. My 15 year old Buick doesn't qualify (it gets 20 mpg) so I didn't even have the option to participate in the program.

[Gormy Cuss]

12. I've heard about that too. It's a really silly limitation because

the oldest clunkers around are from an era when high MPGs were common. This really is a "Cash for SUVs" program.

[Eric68601]

9. Kick ass!!!

My wife makes the car seats for the Ford Escape/Escape Hybrid, that's awesome to see it listed in the top 10. It's put her department on major overtime... something we really needed... for a while there, she wasn't even getting a full 40 hours in. We couldn't be happier with the cash for clunkers program. It's been a great boost for our personal income, the company she works for, and our entire town. And so far, there have been no indications of slowing down, they just can't keep up!!

[maxsolomon]

19. i'd turn my explorer in

if i could afford a car payment. but with hours and pay cut back to 80%, no freaking way.

our solution is to drive the 1991 22 mpg clunker instead of the 1995 15 mpg guzzler.

[sofa king]

20. Most important to me is the end of the Caravan/Voyager minivans.

Almost all of them blow smoke, thanks to their poorly made and designed head gaskets, rings, and seals. Desperate owners have been playing cat-and-mouse with emissions inspectors for at least twelve years now. I would not be surprised to learn that Chrysler minivans account for a significant percentage of all vehicular emissions, far beyond their actual numbers.