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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-01-09 12:59 PM
Original message
Honduras leader vows to resist world pressure
Edited on Sat Aug-01-09 01:00 PM by Judi Lynn
Source: Nation/Reuters

Honduras leader vows to resist world pressure
Posted Saturday, August 1 2009 at 18:46

TEGUCIGALPA, Saturday

Honduras’ de facto leader vowed yesterday that no country will push the small Central American nation around and pledged to resist international pressure to reinstate toppled President Manuel Zelaya.

Roberto Micheletti, who was named president by Congress just hours after soldiers overthrew Zelaya on June 28, said Honduras had enough basic foodstuffs to endure economic sanctions if it were further isolated over the coup.

“We don’t accept anyone imposing anything on us. There is no country – no matter how powerful – that is going to tell us what to do,” he told Reuters in an interview.

The United States, Honduras’ No. 1 trading partner, withdrew military aid and cancelled diplomatic visas to important figures in the interim government to pressure Micheletti to reinstate leftist Zelaya.

Latin American countries and the European Union have also lined up against Micheletti, a former head of Congress.



Read more: http://www.nation.co.ke/News/world/-/1068/633402/-/syu2ec/-/index.html
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peacetalksforall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-01-09 01:22 PM
Response to Original message
1. Look at his words: "There is no country – no matter how powerful – that is going to tell us what to
do,” he told Reuters in an interview."

US? going to tell US - as if the little people were behind him and included in US?

He means him and his friends and operatives of the hit man and outsiders like Riech, Negroponte - all those terrorists - carried over and working with Sec. Clinton?

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anonymous171 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-01-09 01:57 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. He's obviously talking about his government, which is behind him.
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bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-01-09 02:10 PM
Response to Original message
3. The word is "usurper", not "leader". nt
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bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-01-09 02:22 PM
Response to Original message
4. "Unelected Honduran dictator vows to resist world pressure to step down."
Revised headline.
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-01-09 02:36 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. That's the headline. He was never a "leader" in any real sense.
He's the leader of the group which paid over $2,000,000.00 to the highest ranking officers of the Honduran military who then told the forces to go shoot up Zelaya's house, kidnap him at gunpoint in his pajamas as he slept, throw him on a plane and take him out of the country, just as they did with Hugo Chavez, and Jean Bertrand Aristide in those two pathetic coups.

Meanwhile, this usurper remains cozy and cuddly safe in his home, along with the military leaders while the lower officers and the enlisted go out and police the streets, break into peoples homes at night while those same people are unable to leave their houses, and they break into radio and tv stations, newspapers which carry information which doesn't support their illegal coup, they beat people on the street, beat and shoot people at protests, and take all the risks themselves if and when the Honduran people should break with their non-lethal behavior up to this point.

Here's a great resistance song which was posted by DU'er rabs, sung by Lilliana Felipe:
Liliana Felipe - Nos tienen miedo (Honduras)

"They fear us
because we have no fear"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aIs0oHh_y8k

NOS TIENEN MIEDO
¡NO TENEMOS MIEDO!

Jesusa Rodríguez y Liliana Felipe

Nos tienen miedo porque no tenemos miedo.
Nos tienen miedo porque no tenemos miedo.
Nos tienen miedo porque no tenemos miedo.
Nos tienen miedo porque no tenemos miedo.

Nos tienen miedo porque no tenemos miedo.
Nos tienen miedo porque no tenemos miedo.
Nos tienen miedo porque no tenemos miedo.
Nos tienen miedo porque no tenemos
porque no tenemos
porque no tenemos miedo.

Están atrás
van para atrás,
piensan atrás,
son el atrás,
están detrás de su armadura militar.

Nos ven reír,
nos ven luchar,
nos ven amar,
nos ven jugar,
nos ven detrás de su armadura militar.

Nos tienen miedo porque no tenemos miedo.
Nos tienen miedo porque no tenemos miedo.
Nos tienen miedo porque no tenemos miedo.
Nos tienen miedo porque no tenemos miedo.

Nos tienen miedo porque no tenemos miedo.
Nos tienen miedo porque no tenemos miedo.
Nos tienen miedo porque no tenemos miedo.
Nos tienen miedo porque no tenemos
porque no tenemos
porque no tenemos miedo.

¡NO TENEMOS MIEDO!
¡NO TENEMOS MIEDO!
¡NO TENEMOS MIEDO!
¡NO TENEMOS MIEDO!

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L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-01-09 05:47 PM
Response to Reply #5
11. The Junta ordered the murder of Zelaya. Instead, the military allowed him to live.
The military was unwilling to go down for the assassination, likely because they would have taken the fall.
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DissedByBush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-01-09 05:39 PM
Response to Reply #4
9. "Interim Honduran leader resists pressure to allow wanna-be dictator back"
This is about Honduran law, Honduran government. The Supreme Court and the Congress both decided Zalaya was power-grabbing, so they got rid of him.

The exact method may not have been perfect, but still Honduran law says Zalaya committed illegal acts.

Had we deposed Bush would you want people pressuring us to bring him back?
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bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-01-09 05:49 PM
Response to Reply #9
12. Honduran law my ass. nt
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DissedByBush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-01-09 10:37 PM
Response to Reply #12
19. What is Honduran law?
What is legal in Honduras? The Supreme Court and Congress agree. That's pretty much the definition of what is legal under Honduran law.

If Congress and the Supreme Court had agreed that Bush needed to go, do we call that a coup? Or do we call that democracy in action?

Zelaya is the criminal under Honduran law.
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bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-01-09 10:49 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. It's a coup.
If Congress agreed by the specified super-majorities that a President needs to go, he would be removed from office and become a private citizen again. He would NOT be bundled out of the country in the night by the military and forbidden to return. There are specified procedures, they must be followed or it is not legal.
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DissedByBush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-02-09 10:32 AM
Response to Reply #20
24. I guess that's for the Honduran government to figure out
It looks like their methods weren't correct, but overall I see two branches of government deciding the other one was making a power grab.

None of our business.
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bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-02-09 10:49 AM
Response to Reply #24
26. It's not ambiguous, it's spelled out in the Constitution.
The Constitution is the only source for legitimacy in government, if they don't follow it and defend it, they are not a legitimate government. I am not advocating intervention, I an advocating not recognizing them, not doing business with them in any form, until they follow their own laws.
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Abq_Sarah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-02-09 02:23 PM
Response to Reply #26
27. Had Zelaya held his illegal referendum
Would you be calling on the USA to cut all ties and not recognize him as well?

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bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-02-09 05:27 PM
Response to Reply #27
29. There is nothing illegal about a non-binding referendum.
I can hold a non-binding referendum on anything I like tomorrow, as long as I have the cash. It's perfectly legal for me to do that.

"Why are the Honduran oligarchs so fearful of any honest expression of the will of the people of Honduras?" is a much better question, more to the point, you see?
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DissedByBush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-02-09 05:49 PM
Response to Reply #29
30. His own attorney general told him it was illegal
Then he went and fired the head of the army (responsible for elections) for not carrying out the illegal election.

That's when the supreme court issued the warrant for his arrest. I'm still not sure why they kicked him out of the country though.
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bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-02-09 06:12 PM
Response to Reply #30
32. I don't care.
Anybody at all, never mind the President of a country, ought to be able to hold his own non-binding referendum. It's a matter of free speech. Why the fuck is it a crime to take a non-binding poll? That's all there is here. CNN takes non-binding polls all the time, about anything they like. Nobody freaks out.
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DissedByBush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-02-09 06:16 PM
Response to Reply #32
33. I don't know Honduran law
I am sure his own attorney general and the supreme court know why. I am sure they know better than we do.
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bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-02-09 06:20 PM
Response to Reply #33
34. I still don't care, it's a matter of free speech, human rights.
There is no goddamn reason why ANYBODY ought not be able to hold a non-binding poll. I get fucking polls out the wazoo here all the time, nobody says it's "illegal". Really stupid ones. This whole thing is a crock of self-serving political hogwash by losers that don't want to deal with the facts. The rich assholes in Honduras need to get themselves a clue while they still have something to lose, It can get worse, it WILL get worse unless they shape up.
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SuperTrouper Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-03-09 09:39 PM
Response to Reply #30
41. It doesn't matter, Zelaya is a dead man walking and he knows it...that is why
he has not gone back to Honduras. It is a matter of time, Micheletti will not let go of the Presidency until new elections are held by 11/29/09. The two Presidential candidates, Liberal (Zelaya's and Micheletti's Party) Elvin Santos against National Party candidate Porfirio Lobo are already campaigning in earnest. It looks like the fratricide in the Liberal Party (Zelaya vs Santos, who was his Vice-President and resigned assailing Zelaya) then Micheletti vs Santos (Santos won the Liberal primary over Micheletti) and now Zelaya vs Micheletti...the fratricide has left the National, right wing party in a commanding position to win the Honduran Presidency and that is why Zelaya's allies are worried because if Lobo wins there will be strong repercusions against Zelaya and his allies.
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-02-09 06:09 PM
Response to Reply #29
31. The will of the people wasn't even a concern when the Reagan stooges created their last constitution
in 1984.

They clearly are totally unwilling to let anything resembling democracy get a toe in the door in their kingdom, just as it has been with all the Latin American countries to the great hardship of the vast majority of very, very poor exploited people who are cheated the real value of their labor. Their life energy, effort is all stolen from them.

It's time they had a voice, as well, since it's their country, too.

There is nothing illegal about a non-binding referendum. Only a shrieking fascist would attempt to insist otherwise.
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DissedByBush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-02-09 06:21 PM
Response to Reply #31
35. I think Zelaya liked the constitution
All except that annoying part that wouldn't allow him to be president for life.

I've looked at what needs a constitutional amendment to change and what can be changed by congress and the president. Aside from things like the basic democratic system of government, we're left with presidential term limits.

He was trying to keep himself in power. The highest court in Honduras said it was illegal.
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-02-09 07:00 PM
Response to Reply #35
36. You are suffering from a lack of information. It will require you actually do some work
on your own, reading, researching, THINKING, for a change.

There's no way any term extension would have possibly entered into this, as he will have been gone long before any discussion, followed by debate, and forming their new constitution would EVER have been initiated.

What is it about some kinds of people that make them unable to apply themselves to getting to the truth, anyway?

Babble on with your half-assed accusations, and the only ones who'll agree with you will be OTHER loons who also are too lazy to do their homework.

Try to focus, read the material, do some research, and you'll be someone who can discuss the situation from a solid base in reality.
It's only your suspicion you are so wildly uninformed that makes you and others in your boat so furious and combative.
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DissedByBush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-02-09 11:57 PM
Response to Reply #36
37. It's not about extension, it's about being able to run again
That is if he couldn't get it amended in time to stay in office.

So, tell me, what portion of the constitution do you think he wanted to change with a new constitutional convention if not term limits? Your other options are form of government (currently democratically-elected) and presidential succession. He didn't need a convention to change the other 368 provisions of the constitution.

I knew nothing of Honduran politics before this started. Everything I'm writing comes from the research I've done since Zelaya was ousted.

I guess I just have the advantage of not having had any preconceived notions about Honduran politics. Later on I found out that Zelaya was a Chavez puppet, which would explain why I see so much defense of him from the Chavez loyalists here.
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-03-09 12:57 AM
Response to Reply #37
38. Here's more for you to research:
Honduras: Term limits apply when governments benefit people
Wednesday, 22 July 2009 11:09 Share | .By Saul Landau and Nelson P. Valdes

~snip~
In 2006, Manuel Zelaya won the presidency. He made the UNDP Report a central part of his agenda for change. His social program, not an ambiguous Constitutional interpretation, became the root of his "issue" with the governing oligarchy -- a dozen families who control economics and social, cultural and political institutions. They also dominate the media. A 2008 State Department Human Rights Report acknowledged: "A small number of powerful business magnates with intersecting commercial, political, and family ties owned most of the country's news media. Powerful magnates strongly influenced the news agenda and thereby elections and political decisions."

(U.S. Department of State, 2008 Human Rights Report: Honduras. February 25, 2009. http://www.state.gov/g/drl/rls/hrrpt/2008/wha/119164.htm )

Until Zelaya tried to bring real democracy into the governing equation, Honduras' elite, with U.S. banking and corporate backing, had found a seemingly perfect recipe: people vote but don’t change anything. Congress and Courts belong to the educated (rich and powerful) who also control the military in cooperation with the U.S. government. Washington provided aid; the School of the Americas trains Honduran officers in proper conduct -- torturing enemies and making coups. "Since the 1980s, the Honduran army breathes through the noses of its U.S. advisers." (ALAI AMLATINA, July 10, 2009)

For Zelaya, the UNDP Report coincided with a brutal fact. Switzerland and Honduras each have 7 million people. Swiss yearly average income is $53,000; Hondurans $2,000. This upper class President saw an obligation to meet peoples' needs. Uttering such a subversive thought provoked panic among the rich in Tegucigalpa and the powerful of Washington. They reverted to a historical pattern.

In the 1980s, the CIA and U.S. military used Honduras to attack Nicaragua's leftist government. The CIA had Honduran officers selling drugs -- to support the surrogate Contras, which Congress forbade. In 1988, Rev. Joe Eldridge, the husband of Maria Otero, Obama's Undersecretary of State for Democracy, wrote about this drug link; then the Honduran military issued death threats against the family. The Honduran army also repressed internal opposition. The local elite supplied officers with perks and status, but Central American armies have spent little time defending their country and much time attacking their citizens.

The Honduran invented a “reason” to oust Zelaya: his unconstitutional intent to consult the people in a non-binding vote. Yet, the Constitution allows for referenda and plebiscites. Washington representatives now claim they advised against a coup. But, reasoned the oligarchs and officers, encouraged by some well-known anti-Castro Cuban Americans, how could Washington abandon its friends and clients? So, they kidnapped Zelaya, and flew him to Costa Rica under a justification thinner than the most undernourished model.

One hundred and ninety two countries rejected this equivalent of a political “Brooklyn Bridge for sale.” The coup’s defenders, Canada's conservative government, the U.S. mass media, the Honduran Catholic and Protestant hierarchy and right wing anti-Castroites of Miami, approved of previous Latin American coups, in the name of democracy, anti-communism, or whatever. This time the coup makers were “rescuing Honduras from the claws of Chavism."

The drama descended toward farce, however, when Zelaya's abductors ditched him in Costa Rica. President Oscar Arias received him -- and the snatchers. No high official or mainstream reporter has suggested Arias aided and abetted a kidnapping and coup. Shouldn’t he have arrested the kidnappers, impounded their plane and demanded the illegitimate thugs in Tegucigalpa surrender?

Instead, collaborator Arias became mediator Arias. Twenty years ago, Arias refused to allow U.S. bases in Costa Rica for its illicit war against Nicaragua. Today, he stars in the good cop bad cop show. His one act of "disobedience" won him a Nobel Prize. Since then, he has shown loyalty to Washington's economic consensus, meaning free trade and corporate well being.

After Arias served as President (1986-1990), he changed the constitution in order to run for a second term (2006-2010). In June, another U.S. ally, Colombian President Alvaro Uribe changed his Constitution to allow for his third re-election. Neither Washington nor the mass media objected. Anti-Castro Miami moguls hailed this "democratic" move.

Double standard? No. Arias and Uribe followed U.S. dictates: don't befriend Hugo Chavez, Fidel Castro or any serious "change" talker. Zelaya’s disobedience -- to his own class and to Washington -- got him kidnapped.

In Washington, the response was “new elections.” U.S. presidents hail democratic elections -- when they benefit the United States. When elected governments help the poor and reduce U.S. interests, however, Washington officials plot coups, insist on term limits and enforcement of Constitutions they have not read.

http://progreso-weekly.com/2/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1095:honduras-term-limits-apply-when-governments-benefit-people&catid=40:lastest-news&Itemid=59

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Excerpts from the Honduran Constitution:
Wednesday, 22 July 2009 11:15 Share | .ARTICLE 2. The Sovereignty belongs to the People, from whom emanate all the Powers of the State exercised by representation.

The People's sovereignty may also be exercised in a direct manner, through a Plebiscite and a Referendum.

The supplantation of the People's Sovereignty and the usurpation of the established powers are typified as crimes of Treason to the Motherland. The responsibility in such cases is imprescriptible and may not be deducted ex officio or at the petition of any citizen.

ARTICLE 3. No one owes obedience to a usurping government or to those who assume public functions or posts by force of arms or procedures that violate or ignore what this Constitution and the law establish. The acts carried out by such authorities are void. The people have the right to recur to insurrection in defense of the constitutional order.

ARTICLE 5. The government must stand on the principle of participatory democracy, from which derives the national integrity, which implies the participation of all political sectors in the public administration, for the purpose of ensuring and strengthening Honduras' progress on the basis of political stability and national conciliation.

For the purpose of strengthening and enabling participatory democracy, the referendum and the plebiscite are instituted as mechanisms of consultation for the citizens, regarding affairs of fundamental importance to national life.

A special law, approved by two thirds of the totality of deputies in the National Congress, shall determine the procedures, requirements and other aspects necessary to the exercise of the people's consultations. The referendum shall be convoked upon an Ordinary Law or a constitutional norm, or its reform approved for its ratification or disapproval by the citizenry.

The plebiscite shall be convoked by requesting from the citizens a pronouncement on constitutional, legislative or administrative aspects, upon which the Established Powers have not made any previous decision.

By initiative of at least ten (10) Deputies in the National Congress, the President of the Republic through a resolution by the Council of Secretaries of State, or six percent (6%) of the citizens inscribed in the National Electoral Census, enabled to vote after their signatures and fingerprints have been duly confirmed by the Supreme Electoral Tribunal, the National Congress will hear and discuss such petitions, and if it approves them by the affirmative vote of two thirds of the totality of its members, it shall approve a Decree that will determine the boundaries of the consultation, ordering the Supreme Electoral Tribunal to convoke, organize and direct the citizen consultations indicated in the previous paragraphs.

The exercise of the vote in citizen consultations is obligatory. The bills intended to reform Article 374 of this Constitution will not be the objects of a referendum or plebiscite.

Likewise, the aforementioned consultations may not be utilized for matters related to issues of taxation, public credit, amnesty, the national currency, budgets, international treaties and conventions and social achievements.

It is up to the Supreme Electoral Tribunal to notify the National Congress, within a period no longer than ten (10) days, about the results of such consultations. The outcome of the citizen consultations will be obligatorily complied with

(a) if at least fifty-one percent (51%) of the citizens inscribed in the National Electoral Census at the time the consultation is held participate in it, and

(b) if the affirmative vote achieves a majority of valid votes.

If the result of the vote is not affirmative, a consultation on the same topics may not be held during the following period of the Government of the Republic. The National Congress shall order the enactment of the norms that may result as a consequence of the consultation, by means of constitutional procedures of the existing Law. A presidential veto is not allowed in cases of consultation through a referendum or plebiscite.

Consequently, the President of the Republic shall order the promulgation of the approved norms.

ARTICLE 45. Any act that prohibits or limits the participation of citizens in the political life of the country is declared to be punishable.
http://progreso-weekly.com/2/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1097:excerpts-from-the-honduran-constitution&catid=40:lastest-news&Itemid=59
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DissedByBush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-03-09 08:50 PM
Response to Reply #38
39. Interesting except for one little problem
His own attorney general told him it was illegal.

You left out Article 239 of the Honduran Constitution:

"No citizen that has already served as head of the Executive Branch can be President or Vice-President. Whoever violates this law or proposes its reform, as well as those that support such violation directly or indirectly, will immediately cease in their functions and will be unable to hold any public office for a period of 10 years."

It sounds like Zelaya ceased to be president as soon as he suggested this. Zelaya's own party was even talking about impeaching him for this move. More interesting is that Zelaya refuses to release the text of his executive order calling for the referendum. My bet is there's something in there that proves he wanted to remove term limits.
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bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-03-09 09:29 PM
Response to Reply #39
40. Are you saying he has the only copy of the text of the EO?
How do they know what he "wanted to do" without a copy of the text? How did his "own attorney general" know it was illegal if he doesn't know the text of the order?
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DissedByBush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-03-09 10:34 PM
Response to Reply #40
43. Don't know
It's not necessary, just icing on the cake. Zelaya ceased to be president when he made moves for the referendum. It will be interesting when it is finally released. I don't expect the results to change the opinions of Zelaya supporters though, no matter how damning.
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bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-04-09 08:46 AM
Response to Reply #43
44. How do they know he "moved for the referendum" when they don't have the order? nt
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DissedByBush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-04-09 10:14 PM
Response to Reply #44
47. Um, that's what this whole thing is about
Remember the plebiscite everyone says was so legal? Turns out if you do it to suggest term extensions you're out of the government for ten years.
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bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-04-09 10:48 PM
Response to Reply #47
48. But the question is how do they know he did that?
If you are going to remove a President, you ought to have solid evidence that he did something.

So the situation is that in Honduras there is no legal way to institute a new Constitution? You have to have a revolution to institute change?
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-04-09 11:23 PM
Response to Reply #47
49. Your continual reiteration he was angling for extended term limits isn't going to fool anyone.
Any number of RESPECTABLE sources render a truthful view of the situation to anyone who looks for it.

To repeat an article which is linked here on this page already, please DO take a look at information already posted by Downwinder, and reposted in this column with the hope people who are confused will finally pull their heads out long enough to get straightened out on the subject.
Calvin Tucker guardian.co.uk, Monday 3 August 2009 21.30 BST

~snip~
As of 24 July, there have been at least seven documented assassinations, several cases of torture and over one thousand arrests. Since then, I have heard of two more murders. The mutilated body of Pedro Magdiel, a 23-year-old opponent of the regime, was dumped 400 yards from where I and three hundred other unarmed civilians had been pinned down by soldiers, snipers and hooded police gunmen on a road near the Nicaraguan border. The second victim was a 38-year-old teacher, who was gunned down by police at a peaceful demonstration near the capital last Thursday. Of the people I interviewed and spoke with during my visit, two have since been arrested; one hospitalised with a head wound and broken bones, the other released. Another man I talked to was followed after leaving a protest, and knifed.

The terrestrial TV stations and daily newspapers present a constant diet of pro-coup propaganda. The few remaining independent media outlets are subject to harassment and attempted closure. Last week, armed soldiers arrived at the offices of Radio Globo, one of only two anti-coup radio stations, and were only prevented from entering by a crowd of supporters who had gathered outside after receiving a tip-off from an anti-coup police officer. Channel 36, a low-budget satellite-only TV station, has had its banking facilities withdrawn, and contracts with commercial advertisers cancelled. Its signal is repeatedly interrupted.

The coup was timed to prevent a consultative referendum scheduled for the same day. The military regime has falsely claimed that this proposed ballot was an unconstitutional attempt by Zelaya to extend his term in office. This allegation has been taken up – naively or otherwise – by much of the international media.

The question on the ballot papers for 28 June refutes this lie. It was as follows:
Do you agree with the installation of a fourth ballot box during the 2009 general elections so that the people can decide on the calling of a national constituent assembly? Yes or No.
No mention of allowing the president to run again for office. Had the consultative poll been allowed to take place and the population voted yes, the Honduran Congress would have been under pressure to agree to a second (this time binding) referendum on the same day as presidential elections in November. Irrespective of the referendum result, Zelaya could not have been a presidential candidate.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/cifamerica/2009/aug/03/us-honduras-obama

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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-04-09 09:01 AM
Response to Reply #37
45. Here's a superb article posted by DU'er Downwinder in the Latin America forum:
Obama must help Honduras
The US could restore democracy to Honduras tomorrow if the president had the audacity to restore some hope

Calvin Tucker guardian.co.uk, Monday 3 August 2009 21.30 BST

~snip~
As of 24 July, there have been at least seven documented assassinations, several cases of torture and over one thousand arrests. Since then, I have heard of two more murders. The mutilated body of Pedro Magdiel, a 23-year-old opponent of the regime, was dumped 400 yards from where I and three hundred other unarmed civilians had been pinned down by soldiers, snipers and hooded police gunmen on a road near the Nicaraguan border. The second victim was a 38-year-old teacher, who was gunned down by police at a peaceful demonstration near the capital last Thursday. Of the people I interviewed and spoke with during my visit, two have since been arrested; one hospitalised with a head wound and broken bones, the other released. Another man I talked to was followed after leaving a protest, and knifed.

The terrestrial TV stations and daily newspapers present a constant diet of pro-coup propaganda. The few remaining independent media outlets are subject to harassment and attempted closure. Last week, armed soldiers arrived at the offices of Radio Globo, one of only two anti-coup radio stations, and were only prevented from entering by a crowd of supporters who had gathered outside after receiving a tip-off from an anti-coup police officer. Channel 36, a low-budget satellite-only TV station, has had its banking facilities withdrawn, and contracts with commercial advertisers cancelled. Its signal is repeatedly interrupted.

The coup was timed to prevent a consultative referendum scheduled for the same day. The military regime has falsely claimed that this proposed ballot was an unconstitutional attempt by Zelaya to extend his term in office. This allegation has been taken up – naively or otherwise – by much of the international media.

The question on the ballot papers for 28 June refutes this lie. It was as follows:
Do you agree with the installation of a fourth ballot box during the 2009 general elections so that the people can decide on the calling of a national constituent assembly? Yes or No.
No mention of allowing the president to run again for office. Had the consultative poll been allowed to take place and the population voted yes, the Honduran Congress would have been under pressure to agree to a second (this time binding) referendum on the same day as presidential elections in November. Irrespective of the referendum result, Zelaya could not have been a presidential candidate.

During the Zelaya presidency, measures were implemented that improved the position of the poor majority. These included the doubling of the minimum wage, free school meals (a hugely important step in a country where 50% of children suffer from malnutrition) and agricultural machinery for impoverished farmers. As the rural social leader Rafael Alegria told me, the effect of these measures went far beyond the practical improvements in people's daily lives. "It gave people hope," he said.

Under Zelaya, the majority – including the indigenous and black populations and the urban working class – were beginning to take centre stage. The elite was afraid that the convocation of a constituent assembly would have made this process unstoppable.

More:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/cifamerica/2009/aug/03/us-honduras-obama
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Winterblues Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-04-09 11:01 AM
Response to Reply #19
46. Was he legally Impeached?
Edited on Tue Aug-04-09 11:02 AM by Winterblues
If not then their laws were not followed. It would be no different here in America if the Constitution were not followed, no matter how despised Bush* might be.
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carla Donating Member (294 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-02-09 08:16 AM
Response to Reply #9
22. You might want to do some fact-checking
before justifying an illegal armed takeover of a democratically elected leader. Micheletti and his bunch are in no way the legitimate leadership of Honduras. This entire fiasco is extra-legal. I thought this was a "democratic underground", some posters make me wonder...
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DissedByBush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-02-09 10:41 AM
Response to Reply #22
25. The means were off
They probably should have used other means to stop him. On the other hand, if it looked like he was about to try to take over the country they couldn't exactly wait for the impeachment proceedings to get going.

But I do wonder why everybody is painting this wanna-be dictator and Chavez puppet Zelaya as some saint.
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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-01-09 04:44 PM
Response to Original message
6. What's Spanish for "Go fuck yourself, you tyrant?"
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L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-01-09 06:11 PM
Response to Reply #6
15. Vaya a chingarse, Tirano
Edited on Sat Aug-01-09 06:11 PM by L. Coyote
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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-01-09 06:17 PM
Response to Reply #15
17. Thank you!
:evilgrin:
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formercia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-02-09 09:42 AM
Response to Reply #6
23. more definitions.
http://www.absoluteastronomy.com/topics/Spanish_profanity

Chingar comes from the Caló (Spanish Romani)
Caló (Spanish Romani)

Cal? or Spanish Romani is a dialect spoken by the Romani people in Spain Gitanos or Zincarli originating from Spain: Cal? relexification native Romani language vocabulary with Spanish language grammar, as Romani people in Spain lost the full use of their ancestral language....
word cingarár, meaning "to fight". In the form "La Chingada", it was famously applied to La Malinche
La Malinche

File:Cortez & La Malinche.jpgLa Malinche , known also as Malintzin, Malinali or Do?a Marina, was a woman from the Mexican Gulf of Mexico, who played an active and powerful role in the Spain conquest of Mexico, acting as interpreter, advisor and intermediary for Hern?n Cort?s....
, the mistress of Hernan Cortes
Hernán Cortés

Hern?n Cort?s de Monroy y Pizarro, 1st Marqu?s del Valle de Oaxaca was a Spain conquistador who led an expedition that caused the conquest of the Aztec Empire and brought large portions of mainland Mexico under the Crown of Castile, in the early 16th century....
. In Mexico chingar means "to fuck someone" or "to screw something up". Chinga a tu madre or Ve y chinga a tu madre ("go fuck your mother") is often considered the strongest Mexican curse, and vete a la chingada roughly translates "go fuck yourself". Other uses are somewhat more tame — a Mexican might say no me chingues, a fairly strong version of "don't annoy me", "are you serious?", or "get out of here!" that literally translates as "don't you fuck me", or if a Mexican is beaten in a business deal or in sports, me chingaron ("they fucked me") might be used. Also used is the expression estás corriendo en la chingada, literally "you are running in that which is fucked". Soy chingón could mean in English "I rule" or "I'm the man" ¡No chingues! or No Manches! means something like "No way!" (literally more like "don't screw around"). ¡Qué chingón!, could be used to say "Wow, that's cool!" in a more aggressive way. ¡Qué chinga! roughly translates to "What a heavy duty!" ¡A la Chingada! can be a curse at someone or an expression of shock. Machín is another variation on chingar, a contraction of lo más chingón, roughly translated, "the baddest motherfucker".

--snip--
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Hijo%20de%20La%20Chingada

Hijo de la chingada

Loosely it means "son of a bitch." But historically, it meant "son of raped woman." The verb "chingar" comes from a Nahuatl (Aztec) word meaning "to rape." When the Spaniards arrived in the Americas, their raping of the indigenous women was so widespread that chingar began to be used as a curse, similar to the F-word. That is why chingar and its derivatives are not used in Spain but only in Latin American countries, and especially in Mexico.
Eres un hijo de la chingada. You're a son of a bitch.
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-01-09 05:10 PM
Response to Original message
7. Military in Honduras Backs Plan on Zelaya
Military in Honduras Backs Plan on Zelaya
By GINGER THOMPSON and BLAKE SCHMIDT
Published: July 25, 2009

WASHINGTON — The Honduran armed forces issued a communiqué on Saturday indicating that they would not stand in the way of an agreement to return Manuel Zelaya, the country’s ousted president, to power.

Meanwhile, in Las Manos, a town along the border between Nicaragua and Honduras, Mr. Zelaya made his second symbolic appearance in two days, defying calls from foreign leaders to avoid any moves that might provoke violence in his politically polarized country.

The communiqué was drafted in Washington after days of talks between mid-level Honduran officers and American Congressional aides. Posted on the Honduran Armed Forces Web site, it endorsed the so-called San José Accord that was forged in Costa Rica by delegates representing President Zelaya and the man who heads the de facto Honduran government, Roberto Micheletti.

The accord, supported by most governments in the hemisphere, would allow Mr. Zelaya to return as president, although with significantly limited executive powers. Mr. Micheletti has steadfastly rejected Mr. Zelaya’s return as president.

In its communiqué, the Honduran military added its support to the proposal. Officials involved said it was meant to dispel any perceptions that the military would block civilian efforts to resolve the crisis.

The officials said the military communiqué was significant because it was the first sign of support for the San José Accord by a powerful sector of the de facto government. And the officials said it could make it more difficult for the Honduran Congress and Supreme Court to reject the accord when they consider it.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/26/world/americas/26honduras.html
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-01-09 05:13 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. Something is happening. Thanks, Judi Lynn!
:hi:
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-01-09 05:42 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. It was unexpected, considering how deeply involved they are by now.
We have been hearing rumors there are conflicts within, however.

Can only hope their better instincts will rise to the surface, and win.

Thank YOU! :hi:
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L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-01-09 05:49 PM
Response to Original message
13. VIDEO: US Revokes Visas for Coup Officials; Human Rights Abuses Escalate
Edited on Sat Aug-01-09 05:50 PM by L. Coyote
The Death Squads are BACK!!!
No surprise, they ARE the Coup!!@!

==================
The US has revoked the visas of four officials serving in the Honduran coup government. Ousted Honduran President Manuel Zelaya had asked the Obama administration to revoke the visas in order to increase international pressure on the coup regime. = includes rush transcript.

http://www.democracynow.org/2009/7/29/us_revokes_visas_for_honduran_coup
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L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-01-09 05:51 PM
Response to Original message
14. VIDEO EXCLUSIVE: Zelaya Speaks from Nicaraguan Border
EXCLUSIVE: Ousted Honduran President Manuel Zelaya Speaks from Nicaraguan Border on Who’s Behind the Coup, His Attempts to Return Home, the Role of the United States and More
http://i1.democracynow.org/2009/7/30/exclusive_ousted_honduran_president_manuel_zelaya

In a Democracy Now! national broadcast exclusive, ousted Honduran president Manuel Zelaya joins us from the Nicaragua-Honduras border for a wide-ranging interview on his attempts to return home, who’s behind the coup, the role of the United States, and much more. “I think the United States is going to lose a great deal of influence in Latin America if it does not turn the coup d’état around,” Zeleya says. “It will not be able to put forth its idea about democracy. It won’t be credible before anyone.” On his message to the Honduran people, Zelaya says they should “maintain their resistance against those who want to take their rights away…so that no one will be able to disrespect them, which is what the coup regime is doing today.”
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-02-09 05:20 PM
Response to Reply #14
28. So glad to have heard this interview with Amy Goodwin.
It was tremendous hearing President Zelaya tell her it was the best interview he's had during this period. She definitely came prepared.

It was good to realize now he does know there ARE people here who pay a lot of attention, try very hard to get the truth about what has happened, for GOOD reason, not just to be able to figure a way to destroy his work, his effort, and turn it all back to the oligarchs.

He knows now there's SOMEONE here who cares about the truth for GOOD reasons.
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L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-01-09 06:16 PM
Response to Original message
16. NICARAGUA: Ortega raises stakes over Zelaya
Ortega raises stakes over Zelaya
02 August 2009 - Freddy Cuevas and Alexandra Olson in Tegucigalpa
http://news.scotsman.com/world/Ortega-raises-stakes-over-Zelaya.5515712.jp


NICARAGUAN president Daniel Ortega claimed Honduras' coup-installed government might try to provoke a border incident "to distract attention" from international efforts to restore ousted president Manuel Zelaya.
The claims come as Honduras' interim leader dampened hopes for a negotiated solution, saying firmly that there's no way the ousted president can return to power.

"There is a danger that, to try to distract attention from the internal conflict they themselves created, they might organise a group of people with military training to attack a Honduran army position, for that to serve as a pretext for a retaliation against Nicaragua," Ortega said in a speech in Managua, the Nicaraguan capital.

Ortega, who has been hosting Zelaya and a few hundred of his supporters, did not offer details on when such a provocation might occur.

"But they shouldn't think they would have a cakewalk in Nicaragua," he said.

...............
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L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-01-09 06:24 PM
Response to Original message
18. Crisis in Honduras deepens, police fire on peaceful demonstration
Crisis in Honduras Deepens
August 1, 11:33 AM - http://www.examiner.com/x-16503-LA-County-Foreign-Policy-Examiner~y2009m8d1-Crisis-in-Honduras-Deepens


Political violence returned to Tegucigalpa, the capital of the Central American state, Honduras, late last week, as police started fire at a peaceful demonstration in support of the deported president of the country, Manuel Zelaya.

In the attack on the demonstration one person, Roger Abraham Vallejo Soriano, a 38 years old teacher, was shot in the head from close distance. He undergone immediate surgery but his condition remains critical. Nine more persons were taken to the local hospital for medical treatment, including Carlos H. Reyes, a coordinator of the national front against the coup d’etat and chair person of the trade union STIBYS, and an official, non-party candidate in the presidential elections scheduled for November this year. Reyes was treated for a fracture of one arm and sown with ten stitches in the head near the left ear. In the afternoon members of the mission met Reyes in the hospital. Reyers seemed to have recovered well and was given interviews from a stretcher there.

Members of the mission could also yesterday visit inside the jail of the fourth police district in Tegucigalpa. At least 80 persons from the demonstration had been detained, many of whom had been beaten with sticks with bad bruises. Some where covered with blood on their head and clothes, others were in a shock. Three women we talked with complained about sexual harassment. At least five children and youngsters were among the detained persons. Juan Barahona, another leading figure of the national front against the coup, was also among the detained.

The demonstration in Tegucigalpa yesterday continued an unbroken series of 33 days of peaceful popular manifestations and resistance ..........

.........

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The abyss Donating Member (930 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-01-09 11:56 PM
Response to Original message
21. Thanks for this update!
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Toucano Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-03-09 10:28 PM
Response to Original message
42. The poorest will suffer the most.
As they always do when this type of thing happens.
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