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House Vote On Passage: H.R. 2749: Food Safety Enhancement Act of 2009

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Recursion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-29-09 08:17 PM
Original message
House Vote On Passage: H.R. 2749: Food Safety Enhancement Act of 2009
Source: GovTrack

Number: House Vote #657 in 2009
Date: Jul 29, 2009 3:29PM
Result: Failed
Bill: H.R. 2749: Food Safety Enhancement Act of 2009



Read more: http://www.govtrack.us/congress/vote.xpd?vote=h2009-657



I know this probably splits DU down the middle, but I am very, very happy to see this bill fail.
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orpupilofnature57 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-29-09 08:25 PM
Response to Original message
1. Shrub took more money from meat inspection than any part of the FDA
We need to have confidence in our food as much as our Health care, as they are one in the same.
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SpartanDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-29-09 08:25 PM
Response to Original message
2. You're against more regulation of food products?
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Recursion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-29-09 10:05 PM
Response to Reply #2
14. Regulation designed to tilt the tables towards agribusiness and against direct-to-consumer sales
yes, I'm against that kind of regulation.
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Grinchie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-31-09 06:15 PM
Response to Reply #14
46. The why are you against this bill again?
I mean you personally, and not some heresay from your Organic Farmer friends. If they thought it was importnat, they are welcome to join the duscussion here.

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bluestateguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-29-09 08:28 PM
Response to Original message
3. I have no idea what this bill does
All my eyes are on the health care bill. This seems to have slipped my radar screen.
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DUlover2909 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-29-09 08:34 PM
Response to Original message
4. Here's a link to a summary of the bill.
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Vext Donating Member (31 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-30-09 12:02 AM
Response to Reply #4
22. I just re-read the summary
There is nothing in it about it being only for food that is shipped across state lines.

This is going to raise prices for non-crap food dramatically if it passes.
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southerncrone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-29-09 08:35 PM
Response to Original message
5. I'm glad it failed, too.
I'm sick to death of Bills carrying names that are diametrically opposite from what they actually represent; i.e. Clean Air Act, Clean Water Act & this.

As I understand it, this bill as it was written would turn our entire food supply over to the large corporations.....AMD, Conagra, Monsanto, etc. Outlawing saving one's own seeds is pure insanity! This would have put us one step closer to real enslavement. If you can't control your own food supply, you do not live in a free country.

I'm all for Food Safety, good god, who wouldn't be??!!! But let's write a bill that delivers that, not one that protects the corporate poisoners of our food supply. Exactly how would that be an "enhancement"?

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ima_sinnic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-29-09 08:49 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. my understanding was that "control of our entire food supply by Monsanto"
was disinformation promoted by the corporatists because they did NOT want this bill to pass. It would have regulated them, so they put out endless dishonest propaganda against it. I believe that "not being able to save seeds" as part of the bill was a myth, an urban legend.

Yes, I could be wrong, but I remember a discussion here on DU that made these points.
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SpartanDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-29-09 09:06 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. Way to buy the spin
I don't if it's just conspiracy nuts or corporate disinfornation

Here summary of the bill
Food Safety Enhancement Act of 2009 - Amends the Federal Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act to set forth provisions governing food safety.

Requires each food facility to: (1) conduct a hazard analysis; (2) implement preventive controls; and (3) implement a food safety plan.

Requires the Secretary of Health and Human Services to: (1) issue science-based performance standards to minimize the hazards from foodborne contaminants; (2) establish science-based standards for raw agricultural commodities; (3) inspect facilities at a frequency determined pursuant to a risk-based schedule; (4) establish a food tracing system; (5) assess fees relating to food facility reinspection and food recall; and (6) establish a program for accreditation of laboratories that perform analytical testing of food for import or export.

Authorizes the Secretary to: (1) order an immediate cessation of distribution, or a recall, of food; (2) establish an importer verification program; and (3) quarantine food in any geographic area within the United States.


Defines the term "color additive" to include carbon monoxide that may affect the color of fresh meat, poultry products, or seafood.

Requires country of origin labeling on food and annual registration of importers.

Provides for unique identifiers for food facilities and food importers.

Deems a food to be adulterated if an inspection is delayed or refused.

Requires the Secretary to establish a corps of inspectors dedicated to inspections of foreign food facilities.

Sets forth provisions governing the reorganization of Food and Drug Administration (FDA) field laboratories and district offices.

Gives the Commissioner of Food and Drugs subpoena authority with respect to a food proceeding.

Establishes whistleblower protections.

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d111:HR02749:@@@D&summ2=m&
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Grinchie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-29-09 09:24 PM
Response to Reply #7
10. Don't waste your time here Spartan, most of the people here can't read or comprehend.
God forbid the Mom and Pop food vendor has a sheet of paper that sets forth how their Fish Taco can get spoiled if not handled properly.. Oh no! The burden!
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Recursion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-29-09 10:06 PM
Response to Reply #10
15. Write a bill that requires that, and I'll support it. NT
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Grinchie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-30-09 03:13 AM
Response to Reply #15
24. It WAS written, and is the topic of this thread.
It was called HR2749 - The Food Safety Enhancement Act of 2009.

The requirement that food product manufacturers needed a HAACP statement was blown into some sort of Orwellian burden by the Propagandists.

People are no longer capable of reading and comprehending the english language anymore. The lawyers have made everybody question the meaning of words.

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nj160 Donating Member (4 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-30-09 09:12 AM
Response to Reply #10
29. Paperwork isn't the problem
A food safety plan is a great idea, and many small producers already have one, if only informal. The problem is the flat registration fee of $500 on all facilities and a cap (last I saw) of $175,000. Is $500 prohibitive for a small producer, probably not. But, the cap shows that large producers (who cause the problems) will ride on the backs of small facilities. I'm all for food safety, but let's put the burden where it belongs.
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PSPS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-29-09 10:02 PM
Response to Reply #7
13. I see nothing wrong with this at all
What specifically is the gripe? The country-of-origin labeling, for example, is something we've wanted for many years. Everything else in the summary makes perfect sense to me. In fact, many of the items are things I would have thought we had codified long ago.
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Grinchie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-29-09 09:26 PM
Response to Reply #5
11. Spoken like a Non-Reader...
So what you understand is actually based on reality or some lame YouTube video and a few web sites with the word "Healthy" in URL?
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-29-09 09:16 PM
Response to Original message
8. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Grinchie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-29-09 09:20 PM
Response to Original message
9. Looks like the initial blast of Propaganda worked on all that are glad it failed.
Proof that Americans are too stupid to read a simple bill, written in Laymans english, and chow down happily on a steaming pile of shit served to them by Corporate Media spin masters.

This bill would have caused the Big Ag producers to keep records of where their boxcars of chicken feet they grind up and feed to you actually come from, along with keeping detailed records of all the ingrediants.

For you idiots that are happy that this bill failed, I pity you.

Fucking kneejerk little children you all are. You deserve to eat the crap that you are eating. You are so malnourished you couldn't even see through the well coordinated, insanely stupid campaign against this bill.

Appalling stupidity, preserving the status quo, just like Big Daddy Corporation intended.

And just so nobody is confused, this is not Sarcasm. I mean it, you are all a bunch of morons.





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jimmybama Donating Member (90 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-29-09 09:27 PM
Response to Reply #9
12. Lots of mis- information
This bill did not affect foods grown that are sold in state.
Only pertained to out of state,or out of country ( in or out)
shipped food product. This smae dis information is
theoppositions only weapon against this administrations
policies. There are lots of stupid people out there that buy
the shit (propoganda) they peddle.
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nj160 Donating Member (4 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-30-09 09:20 AM
Response to Reply #12
30. easy to agree with, here's a real summary with an eye out for the small producer
Alright, I was going to argue each point, but here's a real summary. It's a little left leaning and obviously the FDA regulations will clear up some problems. This analysis is based on the discussion draft and subsequent news articles. Some footnotes were lost in the copy paste, feel free to inquire about details. Discussion draft available at: http://energycommerce.house.gov/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1640:energy-and-commerce-subcommittee-hearing-on-food-safety-enhancement-act-of-2009&catid=132:subcommittee-on-health&Itemid=72

The Food Safety Enhancement Act of 2009 (“FSEA”) contains amendments to the Federal Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act (“FDCA”).

I. Registration Requirements

The FDCA requires that any facility engaged in manufacturing, processing, packing, or holding food for consumption in the United States be registered with the FDA Secretary. 21 USC 350d(a).

This does not apply to facilities already regulated by the USDA under the Federal Meat Protection Act, Poultry Products Inspection Act, or Eggs Product Inspection Act. This exemption includes both the processing plants and the farms providing the livestock.

The proposed definition of a facility in the FSEA is unchanged from the FDCA.

The term `facility' includes any factory, warehouse, or establishment (including a factory, warehouse, or establishment of an importer) that manufactures, processes, packs, or holds food. Such term does not include farms; restaurants; other retail food establishments; nonprofit food establishments in which food is prepared for or served directly to the consumer; or fishing vessels … 21 USC 350d(b).

A restaurant is a facility that prepares and sells food directly to consumers for immediate consumption, but does not include facilities that provide food to interstate conveyances. 21 CFR § 1.227(10). The provided examples of facilities that provide food in interstate conveyances are commercial aircraft and central kitchens that do not prepare and serve food directly to consumers. FDA Guidance, pg 6.

The regulations state the term restaurant includes food stands. 21 CFR § 1.227(10). The guidance characterizes roadside stands as retail food establishments, so long as selling food directly to consumers is their primary function. FDA Guidance, pg 6. A retail food establishment may manufacture and process food that is directly sold to a consumer. Additionally, the term facility does not include the private residence of an individual, even if food is manufactured/processed, packed, or held there. 21 CFR § 1.227(2), FDA Guidance, pg 6.

A private residence “must meet customary expectations for a private home and does not otherwise include commercial facilities in which a person also happens to reside.” It does, however, include the parcel of real property. This means that if the processing takes place in the residence or in a detached building that would be considered part of the residence, no registration is required. However, if there is a processing facility located at the residence, it would be required to register. For further guidance, see the FDA’s online Q & A which provides examples of fine line distinctions for when registration is and is not required: http://www.foodsafety.gov/~dms/ffregui4.html.

The term holding means storage of food in a facility, such as a warehouse, cold storage, silo, grain elevator, or liquid storage tanks. 21 CFR § 1.227(6).

A farm is “a facility in one general physical location devoted to the growing and harvesting of crops, the raising of animals (including seafood), or both.” 21 CFR § 1.227(3). Harvesting is further defined to include some on-farm food preparation; specifically, washing, trimming of outer leaves, and cooling produce. A farm would also include a facility that packs or holds food if all food is grown or raised on that farm or consumed on that farm or another farm under the same ownership; or manufactures/processes food, if all of the food used in such activities is consumed on that farm or another farm under the same ownership. 21 CFR § 1.227(3).

A farm is exempt from registering only if all of its activities are included in the exemptions. “In order to make the determination, the FDA will consider whether the activity that would require registration is merely incidental to the activities of an exempt facility.” 68 Fed. Reg. 22, 5381 (Feb. 3, 2003). For example, if a facility meets the farm definition, it is also allowed to apply pesticides to pre-harvested crops, wash crops in chlorinated water, place stickers on fruit, and place a raw agricultural commodity directly into consumer-ready packages. However, a farm that grows fruit and also processes the fruit into juice or jam is a mixed-type facility and registration is required. Therefore, the problem is that a mixed-type farm facility may still be very small. Appendix 1 provides additional information on the USDA’s much more detailed classification of farms.

The FSEA does not change the types of facilities required to register, but it does add some requirements that may be burdensome for small facilities. In the FSEA, each facility is required to submit registration annually in electronic format. HR 759, pg 4. This may pose a problem for small farms where high-speed internet service is not widely available. In Virginia, only 57% of farms have internet access; and of those, 65% are using dial-up connections. Additionally, Amish and Mennonite food producers may find this requirement clashes with their religious beliefs.

Another barrier for small facilities is the annual registration fee. The annual fee for each facility is $1,000 (in 2010 and adjusted for inflation going forward), regardless of the size of the facility or its risk category. HR 759, pg 10. This fee structure would be better if it resembled the fees for reinspection and food recalls. Under that system, the facilities using the FDA’s services pay the fees in a manner proportional to that use. See HR 759, pg 44-45.

II. Hazard Analysis and Performance Standards

On their face, the hazard analysis, hazard monitoring, and the implementation of a food safety plan do not pose a significant hurdle for small facilities. However, the amendment goes on to say that: “The Secretary of Health and Human Services <…> shall issue guidance or promulgate regulations to establish science-based standards for conducting .” HR 759, pg 25. The extent of the science-based standards is not provided, but there are two provisions that suggest the regulations may be onerous. First, the Secretary is directed to consider the impact on small businesses; and second, the Secretary is to define the terms “small business” and “very small business.” HR 759, pg 26-27. Classification as a small business or a very small business is not an exemption from the regulations, but merely delays their application by 6 months for small businesses and 18 months for very small businesses. HR 759, pg 27.

There is no small business distinction or farm exemption for the science-based performance standards that apply to food or food classes. HR 759, pg 28. Rather, the Secretary must establish science-based regulations “for the safe growing, harvesting, packing, sorting, transporting, and holding of raw agricultural commodities that (1) are from a plant or a fungus; and (2) for which the Secretary has determined that such standards minimize the risk of serious adverse health consequences or death to humans or animals.” HR 759, pg 29. The regulations can address hazard prevention; all aspects of farming from growing to transit or storage; manure, water quality, and sanitation; or anything else determined necessary. HR 759, pg 29. This is a very broad rulemaking authority which could greatly increase costs for small farms and may restrict farming on small plots and/or eliminate organic farming methods.

The FDA is currently developing new industry guidance for leafy greens, melons, and tomatoes. The Food Safety Working Group says that the FDA will be accepting public comments over the next two years, after which, the FDA is to work to require adoption of the recommended approaches through regulation. To accomplish this, the Secretary need only determine that the industry guidance would minimize the risk of serious adverse health consequences. If so, the guidance could become a mandatory standard. Notice, there is no requirement that the Secretary find the standards are necessary, only that they would minimize risk. HR 759, pg 29.

The FDA has published a voluntary guide that has been in use since October 1998: Guide to Minimize Microbial Food Safety Hazards for Fresh Fruits and Vegetables. This guide’s first footnote states:

This document has been prepared as guidance by the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) and the USDA. This guidance represents the current thinking of FDA and USDA on a number of microbial food safety hazards and on good agricultural and management practices common to the growing, packing, and transport of most fresh fruits and vegetables. It does not create or confer any rights for or on any person and does not operate to bind FDA or USDA or the public. The agencies encourage growers, packers, and shippers to use the general recommendations in this guidance to tailor food safety practices appropriate to their particular operations. An alternative approach may be used if such approach would effectively serve to reduce microbial hazards that could result in foodborne illness and if such approach satisfies applicable statutes and regulations.

http://www.fda.gov/Food/GuidanceComplianceRegulatoryInformation/GuidanceDocuments/ProduceandPlanProducts/ucm064574.htm

Unfortunately, there is no such provision provided for in the FSEA that allows an organic grower to tailor food safety to their particular operation. And, should the Secretary adopt this guidance, it would become mandatory. Additionally, the FDA already has 20 food compliance programs published on its website, any or all of which could become mandatory to anyone who grows food, makes cheese, produces milk, etc.

Also of concern is California’s Leafy Greens Marketing Agreement (“LGMA”). The LGMA builds on the recommendations in the FDA’s Guide to Minimize Microbial Food Safety Hazards for Fresh Fruits and Vegetables, but it only pertains to fresh and fresh-cut lettuce and leafy greens. LGMA, pg 9. It requires a farmer to have a detailed food safety assessment by trained food safety personnel if an animal of significant risk (i.e. deer, pig, cattle, goats, and sheep) intrudes on the growing area. LGMA, pg 47. If fecal matter is found, the produce must be destroyed. Additionally, it requires that the grow area be 400ft away from composting operations and manure, 30ft from grazing land, and 30ft from leach fields. LGMA, pg 49. It even requires that the harvester have empty pockets and hair restraints. LGMA metrics, pg 6. This guidance could be adopted by the Secretary and forced upon growers nationwide.

This drive for sterile produce has led some large California producers to develop “super metrics” with much larger buffer zones. The buffers are completely stripped of vegetation, exasperating environmental problems and doing little to reduce the risk of contamination (if not actually increasing the risk).

III. Inspections and Recordkeeping

All registered facilities must be inspected on a risk-based schedule. HR 759, pg 32-34. There are three categories of facilities and higher risk facilities are subject to more frequent inspections. However, higher risk facilities are not subject to a higher registration fee.

A category 1 food facility is a high-risk facility that manufactures or processes food, including any facility that manufactures or processes raw products of animal origin. Inspections must occur every 6 to 18 months. A category 2 facility is a low-risk facility that manufactures or processes food or a facility that packs or labels food. Inspections must occur every 18 months to 3 years. A category 3 food facility is a facility that holds food. Inspections must occur every 3 to 4 years. HR 759, pg 33-34. The definitions of high-risk and low-risk facilities are not provided. The distinctions provided by the categories alone do not account for the size of a facility or the amount or type of processing. However, the Secretary may inspect a facility more frequently, if appropriate, based on the type of food, compliance history, and other factors. HR 759, pg 34-35.

The records inspection requirement is overbroad. It requires “each person” (no mention of a facility) who “produces, manufactures, processes, packs, transports, distributes, receives, or holds an article of food in the United States” to provide records on request “relating to the production, manufacture, processing, packing, transporting, distribution, receipt, holding, or importation of such article maintained by or behalf of such person in any format and at any location.” HR 759, pg 36-37.

The Secretary is directed to promulgate regulations for recordkeeping that could require recordkeeping for up to three years by persons (not facilities) who produce, manufacture, process, pack, transport, distribute, receive, or hold food. HR 759, pg 37-38. The Secretary is to consider the size of the business, but may require that records are maintained in a standardized electronic format. HR 759, pg 38.

Farms, which are exempt from the registration requirements and mandatory inspections, may be inspected under the FDA’s general authority. The FSEA amends 21 USC 374 (Factory inspection) to include farms, removing an explicit exemption. HR 759, pg 38. The FDA would have authority to inspect any farm producing food for interstate commerce (a very low standard). These amendments reiterate that farms are required to produce records for inspectors. 21 USC 374(a).

IV. Food Tracing, Reportable Food Registry, and Assessment

The amendments add a new food tracing system that will require each person (not facility) who produces, manufactures, processes, packs, transports, or holds food “to maintain a full pedigree” of the origin, previous distribution history, and subsequent distribution history of the food. HR 759, pg 42. Food is exempt if it is produced on a farm and sold directly to a consumer or restaurant. HR 759, pg 43. Note this exemption is for food, not for farms. This means that if there is food stored on the farm that is not for direct sale to a consumer or restaurant, the traceability requirements would apply.

The reportable food registry requires that registered food facilities report food when there is a reasonable probability that the use of, or exposure to, such article of food will cause serious adverse health consequences or death to humans or animals. 21 USC 350f(a). The amendments would also require farms engaged in interstate commerce (see footnote 11 above), restaurants, and retail food establishments to participate in this program. HR 759, pg 63.

Subtitle B of the FSEA directs the Secretary to assess the frequency and sources of human illness associated with the consumption of food. HR 759, pg 73-74. The results of the assessment may rank food categories based on their hazard to human health, and may address: (1) the safety of commercial harvesting and process as compared with recreational or subsistence purposes; (2) the safety of food products that are domestically harvested and processed as compared with those from outside the U.S.; and (3) contamination from handling prior to and after sale of food. HR 759, pg 75. The assessment will not distinguish between large and small for-profit farms and it will not distinguish between local or long-distance food as long as it is domestic.

V. Quarantine Authority and Miscellaneous

If the Secretary determines that an article of food presents a threat to humans or animals, the Secretary may quarantine any geographic area in the U.S. where it is reasonably believed the food is located or originated. HR 759, pg 80. This is a broad grant of authority that gives the Secretary unbounded power to quarantine an area of any geographic size for any amount of time. If an industrial farm produced tainted tomatoes, the Secretary could quarantine and have authority over an area that includes other farms, restaurants, retail food establishments, food transportation, and even home gardens.

Finally, the FSEA adds subsection (z) to the misbranding section, which states a food is misbranded if it was manufactured, processed, packed, or held in a facility that is not duly registered under section 415. HR 759, pg 3. Because farms are exempt from the registration requirements of § 415, food from farms may be “misbranded.” Similarly, exempt farms are not required to meet the requirements of §§ 418 and 419, so farm food may be “adulterated.” HR 759, pg 17, 27.

VI. Concessions Made Since the Release of the Discussion Draft

Due to pressure from industry and attempts to appease certain lawmakers, the FDA reduced its annual registration fee from $1,000 to $500 for each facility. While the reduction in fees is good for small facilities, it was clearly done with larger interests in mind. The FDA also agreed to an annual cap, ensuring that no single firm will pay more than $175,000.

The annual cap is problematic because small single-facility operations will shoulder the expense of large multi-facility firms after they reach the cap. To illustrate the benefit of this annual cap on large firms, consider the USDA’s ERS discussion of farm concentration:

Concentration of production refers to the relative size of an industry's largest firms. In farm structure discussions, concentration has become a larger issue than the declining number of farms. The census of agriculture provides a measure of concentration, the percent of farms (starting with the largest and working down) needed to produce a certain level of output. For example, in 1997 the largest 2 percent of farms accounted for 50 percent of gross farm sales. In contrast, one needed to count down to the largest 8 percent of farms to get to 50 percent of sales in 1969.

http://www.ers.usda.gov/Briefing/FarmStructure/glossary.htm

Another example is the wet corn milling industry. Three firms have more than 80% of the market share for corn sweetener. After the cap is reached, all expenses for inspections and registration will be carried by small facilities, which likely make less profit per facility.

It is also reported that civil penalties will be smaller than those proposed in the discussion draft. Naturally, more compromises are in the works as the bill continues to move forward.

VII. The Effect of the FSEA on Value-Added Farm Products

As small farms find it harder to compete with industrial food producers, it is becoming a financial necessity to provide value-added farm products. Adding value to farm foods can include cleaning, cooling, cooking, combining, churning, culturing, grinding, extracting, drying, handcrafting, packaging, and distributing. However, processing food products also exposes a farm to additional regulations. Currently, if the food will be involved in interstate commerce, the FDCA regulations will apply. However, with the addition of the amendments in the FSEA, many regulations will apply to food that stays in state and additional fees and restrictions will be imposed (as discussed above).

As noted above, the FSEA amendments do not change which facilities are required to register. However, the registration fee, mandatory inspections of each facility, hazard analyses, and food safety plans are new requirements which would apply to small facilities.

Additionally, even exempt food processors (private residences, restaurants, and retail food establishments) would be subject to the records inspection requirements, quarantine authority, and food tracing. Food is exempt from food tracing if is produced on a farm and sold directly to a consumer or restaurant. HR 759, pg 43. This does not include processing of food (unless it is the minimal processing discussed above, which does not destroy the farm exemption). If a farm were to process food (e.g.: make jelly out of fruit), it would lose its exemption and registration would be required. If the jelly were made in a private residence (exempt) and sold at a food stand (exempt retail food establishment), it may be exempt depending on the final rules clarifying when a farm sells food directly to a consumer or restaurant. At least one organic association thinks an exemption for all farm-based producers will appear in the floor amendments.

VIII. Conclusion

The FSEA may be a decent attempt at bolstering industrial food safety. However, as it is currently written, it provides overbroad authority to the FDA for rulemaking, inspections, and access to recordkeeping; the impact on small facilities is rarely considered; and it fails to take into account the decreased risk of contamination when food is grown on small farms or with organic methods and travels only short distances. The definition for farms is a recurring problem throughout the FDCA and the FSEA. A potential solution would be to provide a separate definition for small family farms (as the USDA does) and to include the safety benefits (or lack thereof) of food from small farms and local foods in the assessment.

The FSEA does place additional restraints on small facilities and farms. However, the problems were created when the FDA imposed the initial registration requirements in the Public Health Security and Bioterrorism Preparedness and Response Act of 2002. Small farms selling food and value-added foods for local consumption from the farm, at roadside stands, and/or at farmers’ markets, are not activities that should be subject to federal regulation under the guise of bioterrorism or food safety. The FDCA and its amendments should make that distinction clear.

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Grinchie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-31-09 06:35 PM
Response to Reply #30
47. I don't see any of the recordkeeping as burdensome, if you are a good businessperson
If you are a fly by night, picking oranges from foreclosed properties, or otherwise transient, then yes, they would be burdensome.

What? can't electronically transmit the information to the agency? How about a pen and paper. This doesn't seem to bother the IRS, especially since they scan it directly into the computer anyway.

I'm kkind of shocked that people have more problems with filling out a few forms, while the Mandatory RFID tagging of Animals through the NAIS is not mentioned once in regards to the truly onerous burden that proposed system places on the small producer.

Just that disparity alone makes all these impassioned, yet unsubstantial claims about the burdens by 2749 look suspicious.

It's almost like people no longer cook or prepare food, and don't have any experience about the care and handling your grandparents put in to creating a healthy meal for all of tyou when you were growing up.

It all boilds down to this FACT. You take your life into your hands when you eat prepared food.

It can nourish you, it can make you ill, or it can kill you.

2749 is adding the accountability and forcing Food Production Facilities to be accountable for the salmonella found in their product, instead of ignoring it and shopping around for a lab that will give them a negative test.

The little guy is not involved in this game at all, despite what you detractors would like to imply. As an Organic Farmer that actuall spent many hours reading through this bill, I'm infuriated that these liars would even attempt to involve me in the Propaganda campaign, especially when almost everything presented was untrue.

Now we see phase 2 of the Opinion Shaping campaign, with all of the crafted messages implying "Loss of Freedom" to poison people with hastily prepared crap made from the cheapest ingrediants possible.

We are on to you big concerted disinformation campaigns. I had suspected it when the first Phases was released onto an unsuspection public via Blogs, well placed scare stories, YouTube reports from out of nowhere, and the paid trolls that spread the links ad naseum every chance they could.

Now, we know this is a fact, as it was exposed by Wendell Potter and Bill Moyers recently, complete with MS Project Gantt charts of the diferrent phases of the Discredit Michael Moores movie "Sicko"

If the big ag companies spent 1/100th of the money they are spending to discredit this bill, they would be in compliance.









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SpartanDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-29-09 10:18 PM
Response to Reply #9
16. Thankfully the bill is not dead
Edited on Wed Jul-29-09 10:54 PM by SpartanDem
it was considered under suspended rules, which is used for non crontroversial bills, and takes 2/3 vote to pass. Now why they did this is beyond me, but it's on the floor schedule for the tommorow under regular order.

H.R. 2749 - Food Safety Enhancement Act of 2009 (Rep. Dingell – Energy and Commerce) (Subject to a Rule)

http://www.majorityleader.gov/links_and_resources/whip_resources/currentdailyleader.cfm
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DUlover2909 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-29-09 10:39 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. LOL. Awesome. I was disappointed.
:D :bounce:
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bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-29-09 11:01 PM
Response to Original message
18. Henry Waxman voted for it. And Kuch.
And a number of others I don't consider to be in the corporate pocket.
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Recursion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-29-09 11:10 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. I understand that
That's why I referred to the fact that DU is pretty well split on this issue. I think this will end up strengthening agribusiness's hold on our food system; they probably disagree.
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bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-30-09 08:58 AM
Response to Reply #19
27. Yeah, I don't see it.
Near as I can see this has a lot of provisions that agribusiness has been fighting tooth and nail for some time now.
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Recursion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-30-09 09:52 AM
Response to Reply #27
31. And that's not all it has. Ask your local organic farmer why he/she opposes it
Edited on Thu Jul-30-09 09:53 AM by Recursion
Everyone I know who's involved in the local production of food is against this.
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bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-30-09 10:06 AM
Response to Reply #31
33. Is this some sort of personal matter to you?
I looked at the summary and didn't see anything that smells. A lot of the Congresspersons voting for it are ones I usually consider to be the good guys. Vague threats and self-confirming warnings about what my local food-producers think on the internet aren't going to convince me of anything.

The bill sounds like it really ramps up surveillance and regulation of the food supply. At a minimum I need dispassionate analysis of why that's a bad thing for the average food consumer.

If you have a reputable poll about what local food producers think, I'd be interested in what it says, otherwise not.
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Recursion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-30-09 10:16 AM
Response to Reply #33
34. In that I freelance for a consortium of organic farmers and buyers, yes
I don't know of any polls that have been conducted; I just know that I work for a national co-op of organic farmers and people who buy directly from them, and every single farmer I've talked to is not just against the bill, but vehemently against it.

Now, in fairness these guys have been getting a raw deal from the FDA, USDA, and state ag. departments for the past 8 (really, 30) years and don't have much trust left. I know a guy who operated a slaughterhouse for small ranchers and got shut down because the FDA refused to send an inspector to a facility that small. A state ag. agent arrested an Amish rancher for selling unpasteurized milk to adults who were perfectly aware of what they were buying (and owned shares of the cow the milk came from, making it perfectly legal).

If we could manage to get the industrial corruption -- and just plain old industrial-agriculture-is-the-only-way mindset -- out of the FDA and USDA, I think the actual farmers out there might be more open to this idea.
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bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-30-09 10:23 AM
Response to Reply #34
35. Well, you are right the system is very corrupt.
Edited on Thu Jul-30-09 10:28 AM by bemildred
I grow my own vegetables, and I come from farming people (don't we all?), and I have relatives that did and do farm, lots of them.

The bill does seem very coercive, and explicitly does nothing about meat and eggs and the like or their regulation (Edit: the version I looked through anyway). On the other hand everybody ought be to able to tell what they are eating and where it came from, simply so that they are able, if they wish, to make informed choices about what they eat.

I will take your opinion under advisement. It probably is worth considering that the regulating authority in the bill could be useful in cleaning up the corruption, so it might not be all bad for small and organic farmers.
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Recursion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-30-09 10:35 AM
Response to Reply #35
36. Well, take the meat packing regulations in the 1930's
There was a lot of good mixed in with a lot of bad. The good stuff: we don't (or at least, rarely) get human fingers and chopped up rodents in our ground beef anymore. But the way the enforcement was carried out, the huge players in meat packing could afford it and the small slaughterhouses couldn't, which is how we ended up with half a dozen large national meat packing companies (with huge political power to continue rewriting the rules they are governed by).
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Grinchie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-31-09 05:39 PM
Response to Reply #31
44. Define Production, and your statement is a FAIL.
If you are lumping Organic Farmers that grow crops, into the same category as the Guy who sells Deep Fried Onions at the local Growers Market, then you are sadly mistaken regarding Organic farmers being against this.

This is due to the obvious fact that Organic farmers already abide by the rules and regulations laid out in this bill, simply because it follows the general pattern of running a valid business. He keep track of our inputs, we maintain list's of buyers that desire our particular type of quality produce, and maintain all the paperwork already for IRS purposes. In fact we are required by law to maintain these records for several years already, and have done so for decades.

The only people afraid of this bill are the big producers that mix in 7 or more ingrediants into something marketed as food, and then feed it to the public in general. If you actuall put a tiny amount of thought into this, you'll see that it affects the Tack Bells, the McDonalds, the Burger Kings, that all get their Homogenized products from centralized Food Production Facilities where they are manufactured on an industrial scale.

As a grower, my HAACP program is very simple. If the produce looks rotten, don't eat it, and feed the compost pile with it.

As a seller, I sort out the damaged produce and feed my animals with it. Is that so hard to comprehend? Is that so onerous?

Now if I were to make Apple Pies, I'd have to list my ingredients, and make note of where I bought them, but only if I was selling out of the area, which goes against the whole Know Your Farmer doctrine that works so well for me.

I have no fear of this bill, simply because quality is why drives my buyers to me. It's not hard, it feels really good, and if I do it because I love to.

I know there are a thousand other miscreants who would rather take shortcuts in order to make more profits. Those are the ones that hate this Bill, and I hope they think twice about glomming on to one of the most honorable professions on earth.

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Metta Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-29-09 11:26 PM
Response to Original message
20. Great news. This bill would have turned the FDA into the police arm of agribiz,
would have screwed family and organic farmers and would have done nothing to insure food safety, quite the opposite.
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Grinchie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-30-09 03:20 AM
Response to Reply #20
25. You obviously haven't read the bill.
I happen to be a family farmer, and nothing in the bill applies any more burden on me or my recordkeeping than I already perform, simply out of the necessity of running my business.

The onus of burden lies on the McDonalds, the Frito-lays, the Con Agra's, the ADM's, the Kellogg's, etc, that would actually now be required to know where that shipment of GMO laced cornstarch was sourced from.

You got hoodwinked, most likely because you didn't bother to read the bill, which is all of 5 pages long.

Congratulations on being a good Propaganda victim metta. Actually, your exmplary, because you keep repeating the talking points like you actually knew something about it.

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nj160 Donating Member (4 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-30-09 09:07 AM
Response to Reply #25
28. nor have you
The bill voted on yesterday was 159 pages long. Over 40 pgs were added since the release of the discussion draft (available athttp://energycommerce.house.gov/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1640:energy-and-commerce-subcommittee-hearing-on-food-safety-enhancement-act-of-2009&catid=132:subcommittee-on-health&Itemid=72).

If you're truly a small farmer, you may want to read it.
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Grinchie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-31-09 06:47 PM
Response to Reply #28
49. I have, so what's your point?
I read it over again and I see NOTHING that would affect me whatsoever.

What are you seeing that I don't see? I'm proud of the Crops I produce, and when it leaves the Farmgate, it's fresh and healthy. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that if someone takes my produce and adulterates it down the distribution chain, that it would be pretty easy to spot where it occurred.

You make some pretty big assertions that claim I haven't read it, but you position is so far distanced from the reality that it's pretty clear that you are an empty bag of gas.

Feel free to point out specific prvisions that you think I should be concerned about.. I'll be happy to explain why they are trivial to you.
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Vext Donating Member (31 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-29-09 11:57 PM
Response to Original message
21. I hope it stays failing
I have a couple of beehives. The bill says farms selling directly to consumers are exempt but I don't have a farm. I have a house in suburbia. I don't want to spend $1000 to get a permit to sell $80 worth of honey. I don't want an inspector to come to my house. It's reasonable to ask me to label my honey so it could be traced back to me but there have been so few problems with honey and organic vegetables that this bill doesn't cut for the risk/reward ratio. I am very disappointed that Dennis K voted for it.

I read the bill and I don't remember specifically seeing that it was for interstate or international shipping of food only.
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SpartanDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-30-09 12:06 AM
Response to Reply #21
23. Do you also believe that health care reform is going to force old people to die
Edited on Thu Jul-30-09 12:07 AM by SpartanDem
It never ceases to amaze me the bullshit some people will believe
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Grinchie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-30-09 03:28 AM
Response to Reply #21
26. Read it again.
Your only burden would be your receipt to the consumer.

Since when do you need a $1,000 permit for a few bee hives? Please provide a link to your source for this. I am not aware of any permitting required for bee's when not being hired out commercially and transported all over the place.

I guess I've been in violation for the past 20 years without knowing it.

The only time an inspector would come to your house is if somebody got sick from your product.
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Recursion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-30-09 10:04 AM
Response to Reply #26
32. A big problem is the FDA's consistent definition of "farm"
Which excludes any place where any food processing (including washing, cutting, packaging) occurs. I can't point to that in the law because it's not in the law, it's the FDA's consistent administrative interpretation of the law.
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Vext Donating Member (31 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-30-09 10:18 PM
Response to Reply #32
40. Here's the fee part of the bill (ok it was only $500)

Section 5
(c) Farms- A farm is exempt from the requirements of this Act to the extent such farm raises animals from which food is derived that is regulated under the Federal Meat Inspection Act, the Poultry Products Inspection Act, or the Egg Products Inspection Act.

Section 107

‘(A) DIRECT SALES BY FARMS- Food is exempt from the requirements of this subsection if such food is--

‘(i) produced on a farm or fishery (including an oyster bed, a wild fishery, an aquaculture facility, a fresh water fishery, and a saltwater fishery); and
‘(ii) sold by the owner, operator, or agent in charge of such farm or fishery directly to a consumer or to a restaurant or grocery store.


Part 6 Section 743
‘(1) IN GENERAL- The registration fee under subsection (a) shall be--

‘(A) for fiscal year 2010, $500; and
‘(B) for fiscal year 2011 and each subsequent fiscal year, the fee for fiscal year 2010 as adjusted under subsection (c).

It goes on to say the max is 175K and the fee will rise according to inflation

Plus there is a bunch of record keeping requirements and a random inspection at least once every 3 years.

The question for me is my tiny suburban bee yard a farm?

Possibly, but I would want a definite interpretation or an amendment clarifying that before I would support this.

Also in Section 107, what exactly is a subsection?


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Grinchie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-31-09 05:00 PM
Response to Reply #40
41. It's pretty clear that you are relying on heresay and limited exposure to the Bill.
(a) Registration
(1) In general
The Secretary shall by regulation require that any facility engaged in manufacturing, processing, packing, or holding food for consumption in the United States be registered with the Secretary. To be registered—
(A) for a domestic facility, the owner, operator, or agent in charge of the facility shall submit a registration to the Secretary; and

(b) Facility
For purposes of this section:
(1) The term “facility” includes any factory, warehouse, or establishment (including a factory, warehouse, or establishment of an importer) that manufactures, processes, packs, or holds food. Such term does not include farms; restaurants; other retail food establishments; nonprofit food establishments in which food is prepared for or served directly to the consumer; or fishing vessels (except such vessels engaged in processing as defined in section 123.3(k) of title 21, Code of Federal Regulations).

Please note that Facility is actually a Food Production Facility, such as a Corn Refinery, Corn Flake Factore, or Slim Jim Factory. Farms are exempted. You are exmepted, because you are actually the Grower/Producer, and your market is local. Unless you are adding sugar or alcohol to your product, you are not even on the radar..

The people against this bill are the Big Boys, and in case you didn't notice, there was a massive, concentrated attack on this Bill that started on a certain day, and was meant to confuse the matter so much, that people wouldn't know what hit them.

They succeeded, simply because people don't know how to look to other, existing Laws that already exist that this bill referred to. They are called "subsections"

I think the best way to answer your question is this. Is more than 30% of your annual income derived from farm sales? If you lost your day job, would you fill out an unemployment Insurance form that your occupation is "Farming". Most likely, the answer would be "NO". Congratualtions on not connecting the dots the way the Corporations count on most of the poorly educated public to do.

If people were to actually think about these important things for more that five minutes at a time, they would actually be able to see through the fog that misdirection and opinion shapers cast over the eyes of the general public.

Your "Poor me", I might have to pay a perceived registration fee helped defeat this bill, while millions of Americans, including yourself have no recourse when the next big outbreak of food borne illness inevitably shows up on the scene. Meanwhile, the Biotech companies are free to mainline as much untested GMO food into Americans as they possibly can, immune from any accountability whatsoever.

I guess you're OK with eating one of the millions of chickens that are destroyed due to diseases such as Tracheolaryngitis, which is "Harmless" to humans, and therefore allows the infected birds into the Human food supply, but I'm not ok with that. I guess you are OK that they peel vegetables with Lye imported from China, using the old Pool of Mercury Anode process, thus contaminating our food with mercury, and putting large amounts of Mercury in High Fructose Corn Syrup as well.

It doesn't matter.. All you need to do is take a look at who voted Nay on this bill and you'll see that it's mostly our buddies the Republicans and the Blue Dogs that are the same people that are killing the Public Option as well.

I think Wendell Potter recently exposed the same sort of technique that was used against Michael Moore when his movie Sicko came out. It's clear that these Opinion Shapers are well organized, and are very good at lying and cheating their way to victory.

Wake up people. Consciousness take a lot of effort.


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bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-30-09 02:18 PM
Response to Original message
37. Quick Vote Trips Up Food Bill In House
The House on Wednesday narrowly defeated a bill aimed at toughening food safety laws, but House leaders say they will try again to pass it before week's end.

---

The bill is strongly supported by the White House and a raft of consumer groups, as well as some major industry trade groups such as the Grocery Manufacturers of America. But it has faced vocal opposition from some farm interests, and several Republican members of the House Agriculture Committee said it would burden farmers and ranchers and create new federal bureaucracy without improving food safety.

The measure places significant new responsibility on farmers and food processors to prevent contamination before it occurs. It would require food growers and processors to identify the particular contamination risks they face, create controls to prevent contamination, monitor those controls, test to make sure they are working and update those measures regularly.

It also gives the FDA new power to set safety standards for growing and processing food and requires it to sharply increase inspections and enforcement. In turn, the agency would gain significant authority to contain outbreaks of food-borne illnesses. The agency would be able to mandate the recall of a food if it suspects contamination instead of relying on the foodmaker to voluntarily call back tainted products.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/07/29/AR2009072902416.html?hpid=topnews
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Recursion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-30-09 03:38 PM
Response to Original message
38. UPDATE: Dingell wants to exempt direct-to-consumer sales
That pretty much makes my complaints evaporate. If Dingell gets that in, I'm behind the bill.
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SpartanDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-30-09 05:46 PM
Response to Original message
39. Score one for the consumer it passed today 283-142
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Grinchie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-31-09 05:19 PM
Response to Reply #39
42. OMG I'm in disbelief! The First Real Regulations for the Benefit of the People
With the amount of dirty tricks, outright propaganda, and focused attackes from whoever funded the campaign against this Bill, I'm happy to see that the Congress did the right thing!

Let's keep our fingers crossed that it isn't massacred down the line.

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appal_jack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-31-09 05:24 PM
Response to Reply #39
43. That's a score against farmers
I don't have the time to write my own analysis right now, so I instead will quote a bit of whet NC farmer Harry Hamil recently posted to the Appalachian Sustainable Agriculture Project (ASAP) listserv:


I took about 15 minutes quickly looking through the "guidance" the FDA is proposing for leafy greens. Just as would be expected from the portion of HR 2749 I quoted in my earlier e-mail today, the FDA's "guidance" includes production, harvest, postharvest, fresh-cut/value-added processing, distribution, retail & foodservice--every step in the supply chain from grower to consumer. Its recommendations are a fully, industrial approach to agriculture.

(snip)

I have no doubt that our activities at the Black Mountain Farmers Market, as a retail store for local food and a small distributor for local growers, will mean that we will come fully under the regulatory control of the FDA if the Senate passes HR 2749.

For those who believe that they are safe from these regs because they sell everything directly to the end user and were exempted in one of the compromises needed to pass HR 2749, I suggest you are underestimating their reach.

In my previous career, I spent 35 years in the property-liability insurance business. Because of that, I am 100% certain that if one of you has something go wrong (and some of us will) the FDA's "recommendations" will be the standards that all of us will be held to by the American legal system. As a result, our insurer--including the NC Farm Bureau--will have no viable option than to ultimately use these as the standards in their underwriting process. Consider what has already happened to insurance for direct sellers and tailgate markets.

Also, please note the words Debbie quoted below form Tom Stenzel, the President and CEO of United Fresh. “United Fresh Produce Association is very pleased that FDA has moved forward quickly in publishing its draft guidance documents, Our industry has worked hard since 2004 to develop commodity-specific guidance documents in each of these areas, and now strongly supports FDA taking these efforts to a new level."

In addition, I urge everyone to read his entire statement (http://www.unitedfresh.org/news/884/United_Fresh_Statement_on_House_Passage_of_the_Food_Safety_Enhancement_Act_of_2009) yesterday on House passage of HR 2749 which begins:

"United Fresh is gratified by the House passage of this landmark food safety legislation, which contains several important provisions designed to improve our nation’s food safety and help bolster consumer confidence in the food supply. United Fresh is largely supportive of the bill, which has received broad bipartisan support. Over the past two years, United Fresh has supported congressional action on food safety and appreciates the opportunity to provide critical input to lawmakers in development of the bill.

The bill includes several important improvements, as advocated by United Fresh, including..."

It appears clear to me that the United Fresh Produce Association was one of those lobbying for the initial iteration of HR 2749 and is one of the reasons that the Kaptur-Farr proposals got no traction.

(snip)

Now, I've got to go sell hundreds of pints of blueberries while they are still fresh.


I only know Harry through this listserv, but his reasoning seems sound to me. This bill will drive farmers out of business.

-app
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Grinchie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-31-09 06:13 PM
Response to Reply #43
45. Here's the hook "NC Farm Bureau"
Hate to say it, but the Farm Bureau is one of the main boosters of "Generally Accepted Agricultural Practices" and really doesn't bother with Organic farms because it is paid for with proceeds and advertising contribution from Big Agriculture and all of it's tentacles.

My experience with the Farm Bureau was their push to include Sewage Sludge as a valid Organic Input years ago.

Fear Uncertainty and Doubt (FUD) from the industry as soon as it appears that they might actually be accountable, as spoken from a dubious Astroturf source.

Black Mountain Farmers Market CSA
Harry Hamil
Black Mountain, NC
828-664-0060
bmfm@main.nc.us

So, is Harry Hamil an Organic Farmer, or a packer that produces CSA boxes as an Aggregator? Or the Vice Chair of the Planning comission?

Is he trying to say the the bill is bad because United fresh issued a positive statement about it, because they have big ag members on the board?

I'll take your post with a grain of salt until you can post anything that has any bearing of the validity of theis Bill, instead of spreading FUD.




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appal_jack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-31-09 06:39 PM
Response to Reply #45
48. like I already said, I have not met Harry
The issue is not as black and white as you seem to want to make it Grinchie. I know that the Farm Bureau has been an enemy of small growers at certain times and in certain locations (including the sewage sludge issue back in the 90's - I'm with you there), but in Western NC lately they have supported organic growers and small farms quite a bit.

It seems to me that the one-size-fits-all approach in HR 2749 will be disproportionately costly and problematic for small growers. Some of the GAP rules are truly anti-small farm and run counter to true sustainability. For an example of good intentions gone wrong in the name of safety, see:

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2009/07/13/MN0218DVJ8.DTL

It is truly bizarre that we are letting people who nothing about managing ecosystems, nor about growing food, tell us how to grow our food 'safely.'

I am reminded of Mao's 'Great Leap Forward,' wherein the 'great leader's' demands about how to farm resulted in environmental catastrophe and widespread famine. Mao's bizarre instructions led to the decimation of the sparrow population in China, a massive insect outbreak, and starvation. See:

http://sparrow.elte.hu/mao.htm

and

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_sparrow_campaign

Now, like back in Mao's day, people are getting unnecessarily uptight about wildlife in fields. These modern-day capitalists who lecture us about 'safety' are just as deluded, and just as dangerous as Mao at his worst. If we follow their prescriptions further, I fear that the results could be every bit as disastrous.

-app
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Grinchie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-31-09 07:07 PM
Response to Reply #48
50. I do not see the one size fits all meme that you describe.
One of the main pieces of Propaganda against this bill was that it "Would make it illegal to grow a tomato". And that the small organic farmer would be destroyed by this.

I'm sorry, but those items were complete fabrications, and were eviscerated as soon as enough people read the Bill.

Now, we all of a sudden have some wild claims about "One size fits all", when it is clear that this bill is targetted explicitly against the Industrialized Production of food that combined many different ingrediants for the ultimate distribution of millions of people.

I create the basic product. I grow Fruits, Nuts, and Vegetables. They are not GMO, and I have no need for chemical inputs of any kind. I have proven to myself that chemical fertilizers are a scam, and are only necessary where poor management practices have left the soil depleted and unhealthy. Nobody tell me how to grow my food safely. In fact, GRAP promotes an unhealthy method of farming. I challenge you to walk across a 20 acre field of monocrop corn without a hazmat suit.

Unfortunately, those methods are the same ones supported by the Farm Bureau, and the banks that lend money for all the inputs on the unsuspecting farmer, who takes on debt, and hopes for a payoff.

Since I don't process my crops other than the Grade, nothing in the bill affects me in the slightest. If I had the time to bake apple pies for sale, I don't see anything that would affect me either. However, I would rather be out in the field irrigating or pruning the orchard thatn stuck insided in the Kitchen. It's not what I do. I let the Food Production Facilities do that, and since they want to do it, then they need to be able to defend their practices in the same way that I defend my Organic produce.

I can raise the finest apples on earth, but it is meanigless if those apples are processed in an unsafe manner.

We are not talking about Chairman Mao, or the Communist Manifesto here, but we are talking about accountability to the giant, sentralized agribusinesses that create "Food" from materials they buy in 40 tankers, or in batches of meat that contain thousands of different animals at once.

These are the producers that seem to think that dragging a chicken carcass through a fecal bath treated with Chlorine is OK. Thats because if they used potable water to rinse the birds they run out of water.

May I ask you what your day to day involvement in food production consists of? Are you a Grower?

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appal_jack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-31-09 07:22 PM
Response to Reply #50
51. I hope you are right.
Edited on Fri Jul-31-09 07:25 PM by appal_jack
Grinchie,

I have a day job (involved in science/agriculture/education) and a side/2nd job as a market-gardener (~1 acre), selling my own fruits and vegetables at a local farmers market.

I don't pretend to know HR 2749 inside-out or anything, but some of the objections I have heard lately scare the heck out of me.

I hope that you are 100% right and the Bill will regulate industrial/monocrop Ag and processing, while leaving the small-scale grower free to direct-market ecologically produced foods. Unfortunately the GAP rules of late (as cited in that SF Gate article above) have left me suspicious of many food safety initiatives. Like some of those California growers, I invite the good bugs into my garden with plantings of fennel, sunflowers, yarrow, and other 'farmscape' plants. My mole and vole populations are under control thanks in part to two farm dogs (prohibited under GAP rules).

I'm glad to know that you as a grower (and an informed one at that) do not have concerns about or objections to HR 2749. I'll try to read further and keep an open mind about it all..

:hi:

But right now, it's Friday night, so I'm going to shut down the computer, fix some dinner, and get ready for tomorrow's farmers market.

-app

Edit to ask where you grow? Since you mentioned apples, we may be in similar climates...
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Grinchie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-01-09 03:17 AM
Response to Reply #51
52. Grats on keeping an open mind, because closing up is not the answer to understanding.
The best thing to do is lay out the objection you've heard for proper discussion about them, and not just repeating the FUD factors.

I was unable to find anything substantial on this Harry Hamil guy, even though he should show up on a listserv search.

I used to have 20 acres in the foothills of the Sierra, but now I grow Coffee, Cocoa, Taro, Tangerines, Lemons, Coconuts, Acai and Heart of Palm to name a few, somewhere in the State of Hawaii. I still have a lot of roots in California and have many organic farmer friends that date back many years.

Although, I have a small place in California that I still raise vegetable crops when I'm on the mainland for business and travel.

Apples will grow just about anywhere in California by the way.

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