Chinese court sentences drunk driver to death

[Coventina]

Source: MSNBC

BEIJING - A court in southwestern China has sentenced a man to death for a drunken-driving accident that killed four people in what's being called a first for the country.

The 30-year-old man was found guilty of endangering public safety and sentenced to death yesterday.

He was reportedly drunk and speeding in the capital of Sichuan province last year when he struck four other cars. Four people were killed and another person was seriously injured. He was also driving without a license.

One newspaper reports that the man begged the judge for a chance to start a new life. He said he would appeal.


Read more: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32123148/ns/world_news-asiapacific/

[IntravenousDemilo]

1. Well, that's barbaric. n/m

[Gator_Matt]

2. So is murdering 4 people with a car NT

nt

[Flaneur]

3. Are you advocating for the death penalty for drunk driving?

Or even involuntary manslaughter due to drunk driving?

[RantinRavin]

5. It would not be involuntary manslaughter

It was his direct actions that led to the murder of 4 innocent people.

[Jack_DeLeon]

7. I concur...

[Flaneur]

8. Okay, voluntary manslaughter?

Is that what drunk drivers who kill people are usually charged with?

Hard to see how it rises to the legal standard of murder.

[RantinRavin]

11. I believe the correct terminology

is negligible homicide.

[alcibiades_mystery]

17. "negligible"

:rofl:

"negligible homicide"

Oh, that's too good.

Dear Rantin: Find a dictionary. That is all.

[No Elephants]

34. Offing Dummya could be considered negligible homicide in some quarters.

I'm non-violent, though.

[Art_from_Ark]

30. It's actually "negligent" homicide

"Negligible" means "of no significance"

[No Elephants]

35. Maybe not always. See Reply 34.

Cheney, too, I'm thinking. And Rummy. Yoo?

[zonkers]

38. I'm almost for it. I said almost.

[alarimer]

27. The death penalty always is.

But we use it too, although fortunately not for drunk driving.

[WriteDown]

4. Well, this would certainly be a deterrent to drunk driving....

:rofl:

[Jack_DeLeon]

6. I agree with the sentance...

If someone is driving drunk I would almost take the position that as long as no one was harmed then no real crime was committed.

However when you kill several people because of your actions regardless of your state of mind, then you deserve to die aswell.

[depakid]

10. That would be consistent with the prevailing values in your state

which per capita is almost as fond of executions as China is.

[Jack_DeLeon]

15. aint nothing wrong with that...

"cornbread...aint nothing wrong with that."

[depakid]

18. Many Americans feel the same way about "enhanced interrogation"

Framed right- it's drawn majority support in much of the country.

[Jack_DeLeon]

20. I'm one of those Americans

:hi:

[LeftishBrit]

45. Wow, Dubya, I didn't know that YOU posted on DU!

[Regret My New Name]

59. Hmmm...

[alarimer]

28. Yes there is a lot wrong with that.

Texas is a pretty barbaric state. I live there and Texans I have met are among the biggest assholes on the planet. Big hats, big trucks, big fucking redneck assholes.

The death penalty is ALWAYS wrong. And Texas has almost certainly executed people for crimes they did not commit. THAT makes the death penalty barbaric.

[JonQ]

39. Stereotype much?

Texas has about 25 million people. To have met even 1% you'd have had to talked to 250,000 texans. And even then, 1% is hardly enough to judge an entire population.

So how many texans would you say you have known well? 250,000 or more?

And the rate of executions here in 2008 was .075/100,000 people (18 out of 24,000,000). China is at .13/100,000 (1,718 out of 1.3 billion in 2008). Nearly double. And that's just the ones they've admitted to. Amnesty international estimates it's actually closer to 22/day, or over 8000 per year.

Yep, no difference.

[Regret My New Name]

60. What part of Texas? Texas is a big state.

[JonQ]

40. Not even close

China admits to 1718 executions in 2008, Texas had 18. Accounting for the difference in population that still leaves china with an execution rate of nearly double Texas'.

And that's only the ones they admit to. Amnesty international, that rightwing, pro-texas organization, claims that china executes on average 22 people every *day*, they just don't state that officially. Which makes the real total over 8000 a year, making their rate .6/100,000 or 8 times ours. And we actually do have trials (every murder conviction immediately goes to a retrial) and execute them by lethal injection. We don't grab them from their houses in the night and execute them in some back alley for crimes against the state.

Comparing the two is absurd.

[depakid]

52. OK, so Texas only executes about half as many people per capita than China

The point remains that enthusiasm for executions is part and parcel the the prevailing cultural values in some states, where people ostensibly have a say.

People don't have a say in China- so we don't really know for sure. With Iran- we can probably say with more certainty.

[Psephos]

54. you should use the Amnesty Int'l figures, not the PRC govt. stats

unless you want to look like a dope

[depakid]

55. Actually, it's a minor point- though if I were subnitting a paper or an article

it would probably be appropriate to cite both.

What's more interesting to me is the cultural factors that go along with retributive justice systems- and where there might be confluence.

[Psephos]

56. people generally select the stats which best help them make their point

I agree with you that the cultural milieu is interesting. Retributive justice is hardwired into humans (Eibl-Eibesfeldt) and not likely to disappear anytime soon. Culture cannot eradicate it, but instead, shapes its expression.

[JonQ]

58. I'd go with the amnesty international stats

as more likely to be true than the official chinese numbers. Amnesty international really doesn't have any reason to lie about this, the chinese do.

And is it safe to say you'd be in favor of locking these people up, instead of executing them (I assume you aren't in favor of simply letting criminals, especially violent ones, go free)? In that case, I'd like to make the same comaprison. The chinese lock up a lot of people as well, the culture in your state of denying people their freedom and locking them in a box for decades is literally no different than what the chinese do, or the soviets back in the day.

The fact that they received a fair trial by their peers for actual crimes rather than disagreeing with the government is irrelevant. Both your state and china have prisoners, both are morally equivalent.

[Rebubula]

9. As someone...

...that has lost 2 close family members to drunk driving and coupled with the fact that there has been over 30 years of Public Service Announcements and STILL 1000s die a year in this country ALONE due to drunk driving - I have no problem with this.

You kill while drunk driving - I have no sympathy for anything that happens to you.

[depakid]

12. Sympathy or the lack thereof really isn' the issue here

[Rebubula]

13. OK...I'll bite...

...what is the issue?

[depakid]

14. There are a whole panoply of issues surrounding capital punishment

In your case though, it's a matter of seeking violent retribution for a reckless act that already draws a long prison term. The personal sentiment understandable- but it's not a sound basis for making public policy.

At least, not unless you want America to mimic societies like China and the Islamic nations. At one point in time, I thought America looked to rise above that. Now, not so much.

[Jack_DeLeon]

16. We shouldnt seek to mimic all aspects of those societies...

but certainly we there are things we can learn from other them.

I like the speed and efficiency of their death row when it comes to clear open and shut cases where someone has caused another to lose their life. Especially when it comes to deal with corporate criminals such as executing some of them when their greed and negligence caused death, whereas here they would at most be fined and serve a minimal sentence.

They perhaps are a bit more apt to execute people when there are doubts about the case or when it comes to political issues, and I dont think we should follow them there, but in certain instances I think they have it right.

[JonLP24]

42. Speed and efficiency?

Say that to the 100th man exonerated from Death Row in this country.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ray_Krone

This was a case where the prosecutor didn't care about facts when it was obvious he wasn't the killer and went through with the trial anyways.

[marasinghe]

25. hey 'kid: looks like you're wasting your energy, with the shock 'n awe wing of DU.

as the Coxswain notes below - it's fun extending this line of reasoning. death penalties all round: for cops who kill bystanders due to carelessness in returning fire or in pursuit; the old guy who keeps driving after his reflexes slow down due to aging & the dmv examiner who carelessly extended his driver's license. what about all those military guys who bomb, shell & shoot innocent civilians, due to carelessness? how about doctors who carelessly mis-diagnose or mis-treat a patient; and lawyers or judges who carelessly put a perp on the street - to later murder an innocent. or corp. executives who carelessly, or deliberately, contribute to the death of a customer. and before some jackass tries to hoist a flaming strawman on my ass, allow me to tell you to shove it up your own.

have to agree with you, depakid. when i first came to the USA, it was because i thought this was one country that looked to rise above the mindless barbarity that rulers, dictators, governments & mobs around the world, foisted on their societies. Now, not so much. i figure - when you sell your soul to the saudis & the chinese & the rest of 'em, for resources or cash, you come to embrace their philosophy, by some kind of magical osmosis, as well.

[No Elephants]

37. I just don't get why some consider themselves to be Democrats. Is it

because blue is their favorite color or something like that? It can't be political views.

[pinniped]

19. Too bad. In this country, he'd probably be back on the road legally in 5 years.

.

[depakid]

24. Try 20- with a lifetime revocation

[madville]

32. I know several people that have been convicted of DUI manslaughter

One never did any jail time, got 10 years probation and was driving again in a year.

Another got sentenced to 40 months in a minimum security rehab facility and didn't even do a year before his lawyer appealed on a technicality and got him out of everything with a clean record.

They both had money on their sides to afford good lawyers though.

[depakid]

53. Headline from Oregon yesterday: Drunk Driver Gets 43 Years In Prison

PENDLETON - He'll have a lot of years to think about his crimes. The drunk driver who killed four people may spend the rest of his life behind bars.

Today, John Carlgren was sentenced to 43 years in prison. He crashed into another car on I-84 in Pendleton last fall. Carlgren finally spoke to the families left behind.

“I want you to know I'm very sorry. There are no words I can say to bring your daughter back. I understand the feelings and hate you have for me,” said Carlgren.

Many family members of the victims were there today spreading pictures around the courtroom of their lost loved ones. Carlgren got 130 months for each person he killed, which could have him in prison until he's in his 90's.

http://www.keprtv.com/news/local/51636717.html

Courts uphold these sentences, btw:

SF: COURT UPHOLDS WINDSOR MAN'S 43-YEAR SENTENCE FOR DUI MURDER
Jul 20, 2009

SAN FRANCISCO (BCN)

A state appeals court in San Francisco today upheld a second-degree murder conviction and sentence of 43 years to life in prison for a Windsor man who killed a motorist in a drunken driving accident.

http://cbs5.com/localwire/22.0.html?type=bcn&item=DUI-MURDER-UPHELD--19-21

A case in June drew 16 years for a women in a DUI crash that killed two.

http://blog.oregonlive.com/breakingnews/2008/06/oregon_woman_gets_16_years_for.html

(not a sympathetic defendant- but it doesn't matter. Mandatory sentence).

[anonymous171]

21. Does China even have prisons? nt

[TheCoxwain]

22. How about death sentence due to texting while driving .... How about eating pizza while driving?

If the above causes an accident and leads to death of innocent people?

[KansDem]

41. Well, you do have a point...

Texting on a cell phone or eating pizza does impair judgment that could lead to accidents. But then, I'm the kind of guy who believes chatting on a cell phone while driving should be illegal...

[SOS]

57. People only want to kill others when there's no possibility of their own execution

"I don't drink and drive, so kill 'em all!"

"I sometimes chat or text while driving, so if I kill four people, the death penalty would be outrageous! It was an accident!"'

The recently released studies show there's no difference in impairment between talking on a cell phone and having .08 alcohol level.
But let's not confuse the issue with facts.

[buckrogers1965]

23. This is justice.

Too bad they can't kill him once for each of the people he killed.

[Prisoner_Number_Six]

26. Now, THAT I approve of.

Should be standard practice worldwide.

[alarimer]

29. I cannot believe the boodthirsty assholes on this thread.

Fuck China and its barbaric policies. They are fucking monsters.

[JonLP24]

43. This place may be 'Democratic' underground

but it sure as hell isn't liberal underground. Fuck the racial disparity in how it's applied. Fuck how it isn't applied evenly, fuck the fact over 100 people have been freed from death row while many are not so lucky. Let's extend it to a wider range of crimes. How unfuckingbelievable.

[Lorien]

61. Americans love to kill. We're taught that violence is the answer to everything

30 years of Reaganism and no fairness doctrine did that. Welcome to the "new" Democratic party (just like the old republican party). :-(

[hedgehog]

31. I call dibs on his left kidney!

:sarcasm:

[tritsofme]

33. And America's neo-prohibitionists can only dream. nt

[No Elephants]

36. 'cuz there's no difference between drinking and driving while drunk enough to kill 4 people?

[Zavulon]

44. I have no problem with this.

If he was drunk and killed four people, I can't see any reason why he deserves anything less. Too bad we can't do anything similar with our homicidal drunk drivers here.

[LeftishBrit]

46. Horrible

No fan of drunk driving, but no fan of the death penalty at all, let alone for the wide range of offences which elicit it in China.

[Zavulon]

47. Just told my better half about this. Her reaction:

"I'm guessing some high-ranking Chinese politician needs new kidneys."

[JonQ]

48. Hope they don't need a new liver

might not be in pristine condition.

[Zavulon]

50. She mentioned that as well.

That's why she picked kidneys instead :)

[Jkid]

49. I heard people getting life sentences for drunk driving.

But a death sentence? That's overkill.

But seriously, China has 68 offenses that the maximum penalty is death. Most of them are non violent such as breaching dikes,looting graves, running a house of prostitution, sabotaging electrical power, smuggling cultural relics, taking bribes, fraudulent fundraising, counterfeiting money, credit card fraud,and smuggling rare plants.

[miyazaki]

51. title doesn't explain it all; four people killed due to his drunkeness.

He's getting served a ticket straight to hell, and rightly so.