Chavez urges 'respect' for Iran election outcome

[951-Riverside]

Source: Press TV

Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez says that the world must respect Iran and the "triumph" of its incumbent president, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad in the election.

"We call on the world to respect Iran because there are attempts to undermine the strength of the Iranian revolution," said Chavez on Sunday in his weekly radio and television address.

"Ahmadinejad's triumph was a triumph all the way. They are trying to stain Ahmadinejad's triumph and through that weaken the government and the Islamic revolution. I know they will not succeed," Chavez said.

Read more: http://www.presstv.com/detail.aspx?id=98720§ionid=351020704

[imdjh]

1. Bump for WTF is Chavez thinking? nt

[rosesaylavee]

2. +1

:wtf:

[MellowDem]

10. He's thinking like he always has...

Really no one should find this surprising.

[paulk]

3. hmmm....

[Lasher]

7. !

:spray:

I agree.

[Odin2005]

20. Hugo jumped the shark a long time ago.

The only good and honest far-leftist in Latin America now is Morales.

[cyclezealot]

28. Really

Are you forgetting about leadership in Chile, Paraguay, Argentina, Brazil, Ecuador, Uruguay.. Chavez hardly speaks for all of South America... And of course, Morales.

[Odin2005]

30. I'm not forgeting about the other countries, they are left-wing but not as far as Morales.

[IndianaGreen]

4. The Iranian 'revolution' is reactionary and rejectionist in nature

I will point out that PressTV is an Iranian government channel, so we must take care in assessing their reporting. One cannot confuse imperialist interference in Latin American affairs with what is going on in Iran. Clearly, Ahmadinejad stole the election and is now engaged in repressing his own people. I will also add that religious led governments are anathema to any self-respecting Marxist.

The politically correct position to take is the one here:

http://www.tudehpartyiran.org/TPI-CC-statement-election-No5-19June09.pdf

and here:

http://www.tudehpartyiran.org/cc-June2009-english.pdf

[Bicoastal]

9. Look, before the election, Chavez went on record hoping that Ahmadinejad would win...

...and why not? The economic relationship of their two countries (ie oil) would overrule any silly ideological differences.

Face it, Chavez isn't quite the paragon of socialist idealism and virtue that many here seem to think he is.

[ohio2007]

16. they both have a "comon enemy" to rally their people around

Hugo doesn't want to lose a despot tinpot

[struggle4progress]

36. Got a link for your subject-line claim?

[Bicoastal]

43. Right here:

http://rss.msnbc.msn.com/id/31284560/

[struggle4progress]

48. It doesn't quite match your claim: you have interpretted and paraphrased a translated

excerpt, so it's not immediately clear to me that your version is an accurate reflection of what was actually meant in context -- though, of course, you could be right, since Chavez has a habit of running his mouth

[Bicoastal]

51. It's not MY claim or my interpretation, it's the AP's...

But why is this so hard to believe, though? I admire your tenacity in wanting to verify every statement by Chavez as accurate, but I've never seen any proof that they haven't publicly supported each other since they've both been in office.

[struggle4progress]

54. You wrote "Chavez went on record hoping that Ahmadinejad would win" when what

Chavez actually may have done is make some bromide "good luck" noises. It's a semantic drift, that, following excerpts from context and translation, might represent a major change of meaning, exactly in the same way that careful excerpts of Burris' testimony in the Blagojevich case were used (dishonestly) to portray Burris as a perjurer

I don't particularly care to "verify every statement by Chavez as accurate" but I do think people should attempt to double-check before becoming over-wrought. There's no reason to like the Iranian regime, as far I can tell, and I find Ahmadinejad a distasteful figure. But a contest between Ahmadinejad and Mousavi may be rather like a contest between James Inhofe and John Cornyn: either winner might simply stink. I don't have to regard Chavez as a saint to wonder whether it's really productive to shriek and moan at every statement he supposedly makes -- especially given the history of misrepresenting his stances

The bottom line is that the press is not terribly reliable

Prosecutor: Sen. Burris won't face perjury charge
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=3930517

16 congressmen ask Chavez to cease his attacks on Jews (Spanish)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=405&topic_id=11357

[Psephos]

58. No need for the "translation" or "context" discussion - here's a vid of him speaking his piece

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvf9llr0ezA

When he was once accused of flipping his position on an issue, John Maynard Keynes responded, 'When the facts change, I change my opinion. What do you do, sir?'

And what do you do, s4p?

[struggle4progress]

60. Many thanks for the clip. The subtitles seem close to the mark, though I'd plead

inadequate Spanish if anyone wanted to quiz me on any possible subtle connotations. I suppose one could read the laudatory language as an endorsement of Ahmadinejad, as you want to: I cannot completely discount that possibility -- though that interpretation leaves open the question why it is preceded by an explicit claim that Venezuela does not meddle in the internal affairs of Iran, a claim which might suggest that Chavez is merely saying nice things about another national leader he has met before wishing the leader and the nation well on the eve of the election

Beyond disliking Iran's hostility towards Israel just about as much as I dislike Israel's current rightwing militarism, I lack the background to judge Iran's foreign policy under Ahmadinejad -- who in any case may not have much control over it. Nor do I have the background to determine whether I would prefer Ahmadinejad or Mousavi, and I might suspect it would make little difference. Of course, Ahmadinejad's holocaust denial is repugnant and identifies Ahmadinejad as a jackass: both Mousavi and Karroubi have attacked that denial -- though not on the purest grounds, it seems -- and Karroubi may not be a real contender in the election anyway. The fact that Chavez reached towards Iran has sometimes been used to support a claim that Chavez is anti-semitic -- a claim that appears to be unsupported by real evidence

Iran's Multifaceted Foreign Policy
Author: Lionel Beehner
April 7, 2006
... Who sets Iranian foreign policy? The Supreme National Security Council (SNSC), currently headed by Ali Larijani. Larijani doubles as Iran's top negotiator on nuclear issues and enjoys close relations with Iran's Supreme Leader, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, who has final say over all SNSC decisions. "Decisions in Iran are made by consensus rather than decree" says Karim Sadjadpour, an Iran analyst with the International Crisis Group. "Ayatollah Khamenei rules the country much like a CEO." The SNSC is composed mostly of top officials from the ministries of foreign affairs, intelligence, and interior, as well as military leaders from the army and the Revolutionary Guards, Iran's main security apparatus formed in the wake of the 1979 Islamic Revolution ... What is the role of Iran’s president in foreign relations? Ahmadinejad has some influence over foreign policy — he appoints the cabinet and the head of the SNSC — but power remains mostly in the hands of the SNSC and the Supreme Leader ... http://www.cfr.org/publication/10396/

05/17/09 Bookmark and Share
Iran Reformist Candidate Targets Ahmadinejad's Holocaust Denial
By VOA News
One of two reformist candidates in Iran's upcoming election is lashing out at President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad for his denial of the Holocaust. Former parliamentary speaker Mehdi Karroubi says Mr. Ahmadinejad's claim that the Holocaust never happened, only serves to antagonize the West. He also says such comments help the rest of the world to stand by Israel ... http://www.payvand.com/news/09/may/1174.html

Mousavi slams Ahmadinejad’s Holocaust denial in TV debate
Friday, June 5, 2009 Print this article Forward this article
Click here to read the original article in The Jerusalem Post
The Jerusalem Post
By The Associated Press
... A large part of the debate centered on foreign policy. Mousavi said that Ahmadinejad’s denial of the Holocaust had cost Iran much international standing. "Tell me, who are our friends in the region ?" he asked the president. Mousavi said the country had became internationally isolated ... http://www.eurojewcong.org/ejc/news.php?id_article=4068

Chavez's Alleged Anti-Semitism
By Evan Derkacz, AlterNet. Posted March 15, 2006.
Right-wing pundits and conservative hawks are calling Hugo Chavez an anti-Semite. Venezuela's Jewish community says they don't know bupkus ... http://www.alternet.org/story/31797/

Editing Chavez to Manufacture a Slur
Some outlets spread spurious charges of anti-Semitism
1/23/06
http://www.fair.org/index.php?page=2805

[Kajsa]

57. Post 54.

n/t

[onehandle]

5. Whatever you say, President for Life. nt

[IndianaGreen]

8. He is not President for Life

although some rightwing pukes wish the anti-Chavez coup had succeeded and the US-appointed President remained as President for Life, just like America's pal Uribe in Colombia. How come you guys never bitch about Uribe? Must be because y'all agree with his neoliberal corporatist policies.

[Odin2005]

21. Both Uribe and Chavez are scrum.

One is corporatist scum, the other is Peron-like demagogic scum.

Now Evo Morales, THERE is a good Latin-American leader!

[Zhade]

23. At least he's not a straight-up liar like some DUers in this thread.

"president for life"

LOL

[sufrommich]

31. Because everybody knows that the posts on DU and the

policies of government leaders carry exactly the same weight. Chavez is a self serving asshole.

[amerikat]

6. Hugo, Hugo, Hugo Chavez. I can't stop this feeling deep inside of me.

He was useful when he called Bush the devil. And has since lost any relevance.

[Arrowhead2k1]

12. Yeah, he was right about Bush, but even a broken clock manages to get it right twice a day.

[FreakinDJ]

11. What an ASSHOLE

[bertman]

13. I'm finding it harder and harder to have any confidence in Chavez. This is over the top.

[EFerrari]

14. There is no transcript up yet at the Chavez site and this is an outlet

of the Iranian state. When the transcript is available, I'll post it here.

[struggle4progress]

34. Thanks. It'll be nice to see this thread adorned with an effort at fact-finding.

:)

[Bicoastal]

44. The entire world is lying because we hate the Venezuelan people or something.

[struggle4progress]

47. I like to cultivate the habit of examining stories carefully: reports are often bullshit and serve

an agenda. I suppose some people may find it difficult to imagine that one might be interested in the actual facts, but to my view it is the only productive way to read the news

Government asks to dismiss Geronimo lawsuit (Skull and Bones)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x3933702#3933705

12 self-immolate in bizarre ritual in Peru (set themselves on fire)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=214x210631

Woman on trial for raping 10 men
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x5891876

[Bicoastal]

49. You're comparing 3 sensationalist tabloid stories mistakenly posted in LBN...

...to a public relationship between two world leaders? But never mind, I'll bite...

So let me ask you: do you have any proof that Chavez DOESN'T openly and effusively support Ahmadenijad? Proof that the opposite is true is all over the AP, the 3 major networks, HuffPost, etc. Now, it may be that all those sources are incorrect, mistranslating, misconstruing, lying, etc. but I want proof of this subterfuge. It's not enough to simply mistrust the Mainstream Media on every story you disagree with; you have to PROVE them wrong with sources of your own.

For the record, I was neutral on Chavez and I remain so. But it makes sense--besides the OPEC alliance, Iran and Venezuela both carry a (not entirely-undeserved) grudge against the US, and it wouldn't be the first time world politics created strange bedfellows due to the old "enemy of my enemy is my friend" mentality.

[EFerrari]

62. Chavez is unwilling to use riot police on his own people.

When students protested a referendum in Venezuela, they were invited to speak to the Assembly, not beaten or shot. :shrug:

It doesn't make sense that he would support that cr@p in Iran.

That's the best I have right now. I have a couple of calls out and requests for a direct statement. Maybe someone will get back to me.

[EFerrari]

64. No. It's more that his comments are spun 9 times of 10.

[EFerrari]

61. There is no transcript and I'm getting up the energy to watch the vid.

Also have a call in to the Ven Info Office. Let's get a statement because this is getting old. :)

[ohio2007]

15. IRAN: Arab media looks at the revolt

snip

In an article titled "The Velvet Revolution," Al Dustour columnist Wael Abdul-Fattah says he believes the unrest in Iran shows that the Islamic Revolution no longer fits the country's new generations:

"Khamenei wants the revolution to be reformed according to his own perspectives. Iranian demonstrators are not angry at the forged elections as much as they are enraged by Khamenei's will to enforce his absolute power over the country.

"Unlike Ayatollah Khomeini, Khamenei can't control the minds and hearts of the Iranian population through masses of hardliners who are willing to give up their rights for the sake of unity against the possible Western and American enemy. For years, Khomeini and his successors manipulated the masses by deluding them with expected confrontations with the West. But after thirty years of the revolution, younger, educated and religiously-moderate generations can't be deluded anymore.


snip

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/babylonbeyond/2009/06/in-an-article-titled-the-velvet-revolution-al-dustour-columnist-wael-abdul-fattah-believesthe-current-events-in-iran-show.html


lots of comments that all ad up to the same conclusion;

No 'respect' for Iran election outcome

[ButterflyBlood]

17. Fuck you Chavez

Enough said.

[DLnyc]

18. Wow. If this is true, Hugo is finally losing me.

[Odin2005]

19. Go fuck yourself, Hugo, you vile peice of sh*t!!!

Real left-wingers (as opposed to demagogic dictators spewing populist rhetoric like Hugo) don't support theocratic fuckwads!

[JI7]

22. how would Chavez like to live under the Iranian Theocracy

considering he had an affair while married to one of his wives and is now twice divorced.

he has been critical of church officials in his country although he himself is still religious.

people can't do that in Iran without fearing for their life.

[Psephos]

24. Cognitive dissonance

Warning: video shows young Iranian woman dying from sniper fire at protest.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MvPHxmXYILA

Here are students being fired upon.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QWiSlVddLH8&eurl=

This is not defensible under any definition of progressivism I can fathom.

Here's a more detailed news story:

http://www.miamiherald.com/news/world/AP/story/1102300.html

CARACAS, Venezuela -- Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez is standing by his man in the Middle East, Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, even as hundreds of thousands of ordinary Iranians took to the streets Wednesday for the fifth straight day to protest his claim to a landslide re-election.

Chavez belongs to a small circle of political oddfellows who support Ahmadinejad, including the King of Swaziland; Hamas, the militant Palestinian organization; and Hezbollah, the radical Lebanese group.

The Venezuelan government, "in the name of the people," hailed the "extraordinary democratic development" that resulted in Ahmadinejad's victory Friday, according to a foreign ministry statement.

"The Bolivarian government of Venezuela expresses its firm rejection of the ferocious and unfounded campaign to discredit, from abroad, that has been unleashed against Iran, with the objective of muddying the political climate of this brother country," said the statement issued late Tuesday. "We demand the immediate end to maneuvers to intimidate and destabilize the Islamic Revolution."

Chavez's support for Iran's beleaguered leader is no surprise. The two leaders have developed warm ties in recent years, based on their mutual antipathy for the U.S. Other than the fact they're both major oil producers and oppose U.S. foreign policy, the countries have little in common.

<snip>

Chavez' statement is not playing very well over at Daily Kos, either:

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2009/6/20/745008/-Hugo-Chavez-is-an-Idiot


A cynic might wonder whether the show of unity has anything to do with trying to raise oil prices. Ahmadinejad supports intervention in oil markets to raise the price, and so does Chavez. The alliance is a natural one for two leaders whose popularity ebbs and flows with the price of oil.

Here's an article from Iranian Press TV today that shows Chavez' position on oil prices:

http://www.presstv.ir/detail/98648.htm?sectionid=351020704

Chavez urges oil producers to up prices; says he hopes to sell oil at $100 a barrel.

Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez has expressed hope that his country with Russia's cooperation could sell oil at $100 a barrel.

Sending a letter to Russian President Dmitry Medvedev, Chavez on Saturday insisted on the cooperation of "big oil-producing countries."

Venezuelan Vice President Ramon Carrizalez, who is expected to visit Moscow on Monday, sent the letter, according to Chavez.
<snip>

Every click upward in oil prices delays or deadens economic recovery, ensuring that millions of the already poor become even more desperate, especially in second- and third-tier countries.

[KillCapitalism]

25. Piss on that.

Regime change is what is needed in Iran.

[shadowknows69]

26. Ok, you lost me for good this time Hugo.

[CreekDog]

27. Ass

The only thing that makes me glad about this is that I didn't jump on board to attribute any goodness in the man.

[UNIFIKATION]

29. Iran Encountering Globalization

This is all part of the "Global South's" resistance to the "Global North's" economic dominance which continues to globalize the world through increasingly conservative media and educational institutions. This is done under the guise of "Liberalism" and the "Diversity" market. Meanwhile the poor keep dying and discrimination increases while the wealthy and privileged are content with adequate access to resources allowing for economic globalization to be viewed as a benevolent force. Globalization uses racism and ethnic/cultural vilification to maintain and create more class wars.

Iran Encountering Globalization
"Economic globalization reduces the nation-state’s ability to provide public goods."
http://www.questia.com/PM.qst?a=o&d=103957359

[Vidar]

32. I'm a Chavez fan, but he's clearly trapped himself in his own rhetoric this time.

[reggie the dog]

38. I agree

I generally like Chavez and his politics, but this time he is on the wrong side. El pueblo in Iran did not vote for the guy who "won" the election.

[pnorman]

33. Hugo should watch this video:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5832390545689805144&ei=SxYqSvrWPKq4qAPTsbSTCQ&q=the+revolution+will+not+be+televised&hl=en, and then SHUT THE FUCK UP! He's an embarrassment to all leftists!

pnormnan

[WriteDown]

35. Viva Chavez!!!!!!

I was missing the usual response to all things Chavez. :).

[Bacchus39]

42. Chavez "redefining" democracy!!! n/t

s

[WriteDown]

52. This is all a plot by Coke Zero...

to defame Chavez.

[LeftishBrit]

37. I'll 'respect' the Iran election outcome when I know what it actually was...

which will be on the twelfth of never, if the government have anything to do with it.

I didn't respect Bush's 'election' either.

[Joanne98]

39. On no! I love ya but shut up Hugo!

[subcomhd]

40. I like Jimmy Carter

but he supported the Shah. History is more complicated than hero worship lends itself to. PERFECT EXAMPLE - progressives who want to pitch Obama overboard because he didn't turn out to be Liberal Jesus - but rather a pragmatic center-left establishment politician. But their expectations have now caused them to be blind to the fact that a center-left establishment politician is a 1000% improvement over what we had.


Chavez is a left-wing populist with authoritarian tendencies who has done a lot of good things despite long odds. There is much to be admired. But he's not Liberal Jesus.

I guess Jesus was Liberal Jesus. LOL

[newinnm]

41. Chavez

Has lost his fucking mind.

-nnnm

[Name removed]

45. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Kajsa]

46. I just lost whatever respect

I had for that man.

"Ahmadinejad's triumph was a triumph all the way. They are trying to stain Ahmadinejad's triumph"

What a crock of shit!

Anything goes, as long as it's anti-American, eh Chavez?

President Chavez,

Please explain this to me,

http://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=93446532231&ref=nf

[Name removed]

50. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Bacchus39]

53. Chavez wishing his friend Ahmadinejad luck and calling him the defender

of the Islamic revolution

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvf9llr0ezA

[Kajsa]

56. There's no disputing this one,Bacchus.

Thanks for the link.

:)

[Johnboi70]

55. Hugo Chavez, the Venezuelan George Bush n/t

[Generator]

59. That dude is a clueless punk

Viva la revoultion-no matter that it has nothing to do with what the people want.

Chavez is a sounding a lot like Bush this days. Maybe they are soul brothers. Hermanos de dicator!

[junior college]

63. I don't agree with Chavez on this but that doesn't mean I think he

is a bad leader. He has done great things for Venezuela and it's people.

[marasinghe]

65. you're losing perspective, hugo; and losing us. it sure ain't Bolivar you're quoting.

key the theme from redford's movie, 'jeremiah johnson', for senor chavez: "the way that you wander - is the way that you choose; the day that you stop - is the day that you lose"

this is why Guevara kept fighting to the death; instead of retiring his ass to a cuban beach villa.

this is not about imperialism or mob-rule - even by democratic election - any longer; this is about the free and the dead. this is about Neda Agha-Soltan & her fellow warriors. so stick to your own battles, hugo. the iranian kids will fight theirs, their way.

[ohio2007]

66. Venezuela's Chavez praises Ahmadinejad's "great victory"

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x3923250

The Iranian body count will not change the vote count as Hugo so wisely noticed
:sarcasm:
But why some threads get moved to "all things LatinAmerican forum while duplicates subjects stay open is very que$tionable imo