Guns from America fuel Jamaica's gang wars

[AlphaCentauri]

Source: AP

Ships from Miami steam into Jamaica's main harbor loaded with TV sets and blue jeans. But some of the most popular U.S. imports never appear on the manifests: handguns, rifles and bullets that stoke one of the world's highest murder rates.

The volume is much less than the flow of U.S. guns into Mexico that end up in the hands of drug cartels — Jamaican authorities recover fewer than 1,000 firearms a year. But of those whose origin can be traced, 80 percent come from the U.S., Jamaican law enforcement officials have said in interviews with The Associated Press.

And as the Obama administration cracks down on smuggling into Mexico, Jamaicans fear even more firearms will reach the gangs whose turf wars plague the island of 2.8 million people.

"It's going to push a lot of that trade back toward the Caribbean like it was back in the '80s," said Vance Callender, an attache at the U.S. Embassy in Kingston for Immigration and Customs Enforcement


Read more: http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2009/06/21/world/AP-CB-Jamaica-Gun-Smuggling.html?ref=global-home

[melm00se]

1. this quote

But of those whose origin can be traced, 80 percent come from the U.S., Jamaican law enforcement officials have said in interviews with The Associated Press.

makes me wonder: How many guns can't be traced? specifically those that don't have serial numbers (something that has been a requirement for all US weapons since 1968.

the article doesn't even touch on this point at all.

[imdjh]

3. What difference does it make?

If the guns come from China or Timbuktu are the victims any less dead?

People are being murdered by human animals, and the best that the response can come up with is "the US makes guns"?

[TheWraith]

6. The point is that the US isn't the story.

The problem is the drug trafficking and violence in Jamaica. It still wouldn't be the story if the guns DID come from China (as a lot of the ones in Mexico probably do). The issue is what's happening.

[geckosfeet]

9. The story is that guns from the US are being trafficked to Jamaica.

Why deflect attention from the underground US gun market?

[Pavulon]

11. Like the subway market?

or a criminal element like the one that sells drugs, prostitutes, and other things that violate many laws?

[geckosfeet]

17. Yes! See! You really can take illegal gun sales seriously.

[Pavulon]

25. Illegal. The magic word

Like weed. I mean maybe dealing with root cause of criminal acts is a better solution.

[geckosfeet]

27. I have no problem calling criminal activity illegal.

[Igel]

26. Yes, it makes a difference.

The numbers matter, whether the guns were used in crimes (much less murder) matters, where they're manufactured matters.

Buy a Beretta in Miami, send it to Jamaica, and it's a firearm imported from, but not made in, the US.

The number is of firearms recovered. How many were never used in crimes is an open question. How many were used in murders is also an open question.

How many were traceable matters. If of the <1000k firearms only 10 could be traced, it means 8 came from the US. That's getting towards insignificant. If of the <1000k firearms 900 could be traced, it means 720 came from the US. Oddly, that still doesn't strike me as all that high. In any event, the number of murder victims of the 8 firearms are probably near 0; the number from 720 firearms is probably significant.

This is a fairly fact- and context-free bit of media flagellation. Of course, it's not self-flagellation because the reporters would, no doubt, say that the America that's exporting guns isn't their America.

[NYC_SKP]

4. Right. Maybe only 80% of the 5% that were traceable came from the US.

I hate this kind of shitty reporting.

Fuck.

[happyslug]

5. The Situation between Jamaica and Mexico are fundamentally different.

In Mexico we are seeing an actual Drug war (Which may be mixed up with an ongoing conflict (Not quite a Civil War but more then a Political Dispute) between the Peasants and the Rich over who should rule Mexico). In such war, the Drug Dealers have decided to go all out, including the use of non crew maned battle weapons (i.e. Rifles, Assault Rifles and other heavier weapons, crew manned weapons are true Machine Guns, Mortars etc which have NOT appeared in the Mexican Drug war unlike Rifles which have). Most of the weapons in Mexico is derived elsewhere (not Mexico) with less then 10% of all weapons recovered being from the US (Mostly pistols).

Jamaica is different, what is occurring there is "normal" drug trafficking and as such pistols NOT rifles are preferred. The US has the most permissive regulations of pistols and thus the largest amount of pistols in the world. That is where the pistols are and thus it is where people go to buy them both legally and illegally (Demand will follow supply). Thus, while 90% of all the illegal weapons found by the Police is Mexico is from some place other then the US, the opposite is probably the case when it comes to Jamaica. 1000 illegal weapons a year in a country as large as Jamaica with extensive Drug problems (Where ALL pistols are banned) and drug dealing is illegal is not that high (Most American cities of the same population probably have larger numbers). Remember these pistols are pistols picked up the the Police while the police are doing they job (which include arresting drug dealers). No one is saying these pistols were ever used in illegal activity other then being on a person who was being arrested (i.e. most of the pistols were NOT use to commit crimes, but was on a criminal when he or she was arrested). Given that background I suspect most of these illegal weapons are pistols in Jamaica and came from the US unlike Mexico where the Statistics are manipulated to make out it look like most weapons taken from criminals are from the US (most weapons in Mexico are NOT traced for automatic weapons are expensive in the US, and the going price for an AK-47 in Africa, the the mid 1990s which was the last time I read about the price in Africa, was only $50). Shipping such weapons from Columbia or Central American would be harder then from the US, but that is also how the Drugs are being shipped, so such weapons can be just added onto a drug shipment with minimal additional costs (Providing someone is willing to pay, no one need such weapons in Jamaica, no true drug war is occurring in Jamaica, but there is a demand in Mexico given the ongoing Drug War).

[jwirr]

14. There has been a war going on in the shanty town parts of Kingston

for years. When our family went down to get our adopted daughter we had to have protection in order to go in. We still do if and when we take her back to visit with her natural mother. A war is a war regardless of the commodity that the war is about.

[geckosfeet]

7. Yeah. The author doesn't even provide a database of serial numbers and gun type.

WTF.

I want details. Inquiring minds you know.

[X_Digger]

8. Yes, let's gin up moral panic without facts. n/t

[geckosfeet]

10. Moral panic? Frankly, there is illegal gun trafficking in the US.

[X_Digger]

13. And in order to evaluate the scope of the problem..

..facts are required.

Like how many are seized total, how many are submitted for tracing to the US BATFE, etc. If the original purchasers of those US guns were the Jamaican government, that would lead to a wholly different approach to a solution than if they were straw purchased in the US market, no?

I don't see that as an unreasonable request, do you?

[geckosfeet]

16. The scope of the problem,

includes obstructionists who refuse to acknowledge a thriving US black market in guns.

I agree, numbers are important, and the author provides a few numbers.

'Jamaican authorities recover fewer than 1,000 firearms a year. But of those whose origin can be traced, 80 percent come from the U.S., Jamaican law enforcement officials have said in interviews with The Associated Press.'

[WriteDown]

18. Math quiz for you....

Out of the fewer than 1000 firearms recovered, what percentage can be traced?

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

19. I'm guessing someone is getting an F on that quiz.

[X_Digger]

20. Math isn't your strong suit, is it?

statement removed til Gecko answers..

[WriteDown]

21. Please delete your post...

Giving away the answer is cheating. :).

[X_Digger]

22. LOL! n/t

[aikoaiko]

28. We've learned from the Mexico-US gun panic that this an important distinction.

It would have been a simple matter to determine how many of the total guns were actually determined to be from the US.

All we know is that it is lower than 80%.

[imdjh]

2. alt headline: Jamaican gangs kill Jamaicans with guns sent by Jamaicans to Jamaicans

[Tim01]

12. Who is pushing these lies? Another one of these?

Come on, this crap gets old. It's going take 150 posts to show it is nonsense and people will still say it is true.

[Jack_DeLeon]

15. Law and order in other countries are not our responsiblity...

The rights of Americans should not be restricted for the sake of citizens of another country.

[ConcernedCanuk]

23. Then why does the USA have military in over half the countries in the World?

.
.
.

[imdjh]

24. Because the UK can only do so much. nt

[depakid]

29. I see that the gun proliferation folks are out in force

never, ever taking even the slightest responsibility for the consequences of their advocacy.

[Romulox]

30. Talk about framing. It's our DRUG PROHIBITION, not weapons, that fuel the violence.

How many Jamaican rum-runners were involved in shootouts last year? :hi:

[applegrove]

31. And Mexico's gang wars. And probably Canada's too.