2 Japanese carrying $134 bil worth of U.S. bonds detained in Italy

[Lagomorph]

Source: Japan Today

ROME —

Two Japanese nationals were detained by Italian financial police last week after trying to enter Switzerland with $134 billion worth of undeclared U.S. bonds, mostly Treasury bonds, an Italian daily said Wednesday. The Japanese consulate general in Milan confirmed that the detention had taken place and said it was trying to confirm with Italian authorities whether the two were indeed Japanese nationals and their identities.

According to the report in il Giornale, two unidentified Japanese in their 50s concealed the bonds, including 249 U.S. Treasury bonds each worth $500 million, in a suitcase with a false bottom that was searched by the Italian authorities June 3 when they were in Chiasso, at the border with Switzerland, about 50 kilometers north of Milan. The daily did not say on what charges they have been detained, but the two may have been detained on suspicion of attempting to take a large amount of securities out of Italy without declaring it because the paper said they had not declared the bonds.

Read more: http://www.japantoday.com/category/crime/view/2-japanese-carrying-134-bil-worth-of-us-bonds-detained-in-italy

---

Well, we know the stimulus money is in play.

[aquart]

1. ?

[nadinbrzezinski]

4. looks like really old fashioned money laundry

if they are japanese I am betting zaibatsus or yakuza are involved... somehow.

Now billions, that is impressive

[John Q. Citizen]

10. 134 billion is quite impressive, It got my attention.

[napoleon_in_rags]

113. THEY ARE FAKE:

I'm posting this near the top here, because I got all the way down to the bottom before I saw this article:
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601101&sid=afJXAA1ahZyo
pretty much wraps that one up.

[John Q. Citizen]

114. That explains why they didn't declare them (And the amount, too!)

[grahamhgreen]

11. Too much $ for common criminals... I smell War for Profit money... or bailout $$$$

[nadinbrzezinski]

13. The top yakuza are not common criminals

and yes that much money does move around in the darker places of the economy....

[HamdenRice]

62. No, I think this is very bad news. I think Chinese govt selling US bonds without public disclosure

Or it could even be the Japanese central bank. I think they are Chinese with false Japanese papers.

Both governments hold stupefying levels of US debt. Both want to diversify. Both publicly say they won't diversify right now because that would cause the dollar to drop and reduce the value of their Treasury bond holdings.

So there has been lots of speculation in the financial press that the Chinese State Administration of Foreign Exchange (which holds most Chinese T bills) would be trying secretly to sell Treasuries.

The scale of this holding means it pretty much has to be a central bank -- either Chinese or Japanese.

Someone govt has lost faith in the dollar and is trying to get out.

[Gman]

68. OMG, you may well be correct

the implications are ominous for the US economy.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

109. More likely, this was the cut off the top in Iraq reconstruction.

China would NEVER use two Japanese businessmen, traveling through Italy. No effing way. China trusts Japan about as much as we can trust Rush limpbaugh.

[HamdenRice]

127. I didn't say they were Japanese

I said they were Chinese with false papers. For some reason, when Asian government rogue operations want to fake nationality, they tend to use Japanese documents.

The North Koreans almost always pose as Japanese in rogue operations. For example, the son of the current dictator, the son who is supposed to succeed Kim Jong Il, was once detained in Japan trying to get into Japanese Disneyland, and he had fake Japanese identity documents.

[sicksicksick_N_tired]

136. I admire the degree of creativity in your exploration of speculation.

However, you offer no evidence in support of your speculations.

Still, I seriously enjoy your indulgence in fiction.

[AlphaCentauri]

24. Maybe Japanese investors getting their money back and utilities

after the real state crunch, that happened often in third world countries.

[MADem]

29. Maybe they're Chinese, playing at being Japanese. OR...North Koreans!

It's a fascinating story, in any event.

I can't wait to hear how it spins out....

[nadinbrzezinski]

34. That is why the diplomatic staff is involved

and these are the kinds of stories writers live for as well.

I will be taking notes. I am sure I could use it in a future world.

[Soylent Brice]

60. i was thinking the same thing. the saying goes,

"follow the money".

i'm beyond curious to see where this trail leads.

[dotymed]

65. This will be covered up

Just like the "put options" on the airline companies
on 9-11. $134 Billion... that will buy a lot of silence, or
just "disappear" as well as the couriers. Wait and
see, we won't hear anymore about it. On 9-11 they told us,
"as soon as we find out who bought the options on the
airlines, we'll know who is responsible for this
tragedy"..On 9-12 the money trail was never mentioned
again. I'd bet that very prominent, politically connected
Americans bought those options and made millions...move along,
no insider info here.....Now Obama doesn't want any
investigations into the Bush years.... throughout history,
there is one common thread, the elite covering the asses of
the other elites. We don't matter, we are expendable.

[jumptheshadow]

99. For heaven's sake

Japanese and Chinese people do not look alike.

[sicksicksick_N_tired]

135. Naw,...they're helping out their old buddy, Rumsfeld and Bush and Perle and,...

,...all those war profiteering guys who can simply say, "I don't know where that 9 billion went, honest".

:rofl:

[girl gone mad]

44. I will wait to see how this plays out.

Pretty sure these are fakes.

[cliffordu]

2. NOW we need a little of that hot waterboard action....

I smell a Cheney. Don't know why, but I do.

Maybe it's the sulphur.....

[Lagomorph]

6. Yeah...

That's two guys walking around with almost 20% of the 700 billion gov't bailout in their briefcase.

[cliffordu]

7. Seems like a really great way to wind up vanished since they got caught.

Regular couriers would have just flown in, right??

I hope someone keeps this story alive. I wanna know if it IS the stimulus money.

[Skink]

3. Freakin Die Hard.

[Statistical]

5. "Well, we know the stimulus money is in play."

That doesn't even make sense.

Stimulus = T-bonds held by foreign nationals?

Hint: there is $10,000,000,000,000 worth of US debt out there.
A substantial portion is owned by foreign entities.

It is possibly these two are doing it to avoid Japanese taxes or it is possible they are stolen bonds from some bank or govt agency in Japan.

Once we issue debt we really don't care who owns it.

[Lagomorph]

8. Consider it a comment about accountability....

We don't know where a lot of the stimulus money went.

One Hundred and Thirty Four BILLION dollars being smuggled through customs in a briefcase.

It doesn't sound like any sort of legitimate business deal.

[Statistical]

22. No I doubt it was.

To jump to stimulus fraud is a logical fallacy.

There is $10 TRLLION. $10,000 Billion worth of federal debt.

The idea that someone might try to hide some of it in switzerland is not very unusually and likely has NOTHING to do with the stimulus.

[alcibiades_mystery]

30. You seem to have fixated stupidly on the idea that this has something to do with the stimulus

Why you draw that conclusion is a mystery, needless to say. Dumb all around.

And welcome.

[Lagomorph]

39. Stimulus money is in play right now.

I'd love to know where it went.

I made the comment because I read this a while back and it stuck in my head:

http://www.forbes.com/2008/09/23/bailout-paulson-congress-biz-beltway-cx_jz_bw_0923bailout.html

"In fact, some of the most basic details, including the $700 billion figure Treasury would use to buy up bad debt, are fuzzy.

"It's not based on any particular data point," a Treasury spokeswoman told Forbes.com Tuesday. "We just wanted to choose a really large number.""


Our own Treasury just picked a number out of thin air. They were playing fast and loose with our money, just like these smugglers were doing.

We send innumerable billions to Iraq and it just disappears...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2007/feb/08/usa.iraq1

The US flew nearly $12bn in shrink-wrapped $100 bills into Iraq, then distributed the cash with no proper control over who was receiving it and how it was being spent.

I guess all these numbers just sit in that part of my brain that collects really, really huge numbers and they sort of tumble around together. Then my brain goes :crazy: when I realize we're talking Dollars, not stellar cartography.

This probably doesn't have anything to do with the stimulus. Large, legitimate transactions can be wired. It's much safer than smuggling. If it's real, this stuff just hit the street, or came out of a vault. Who pulls $134 billion out of their vault and hands it to a couple guys without security? Governments? Nah, they use security...I couldn't possibly know the details because my mind can't wrap itself around this level of stupidity or criminality.

Just the same, I'd love to know where the stimulus money went, or did I mention that already?

[alcibiades_mystery]

79. Just throwing stuff up against the wall, now, eh?

You don't even know what you're talking about:

1) the $700 billion you reference "to buy up bad debt" is NOT the so-called "stimulus" money, but the Paulson plan money that was requested by the Bush administration in the first bailout of last October; it was signed into law by President Bush. It didn't disappear into thin air, but went directly to banks, ten of which are paying it back at a profit for the government as announced this very week. The "stimulus," or American Recovery and Reinvestment Act was passed in February, and involves specific expenditures detailed in the bill itself, which you can read here http://www.readthestimulus.org/ and track here http://www.recovery.gov/. You have, very ignorantly, I might add, CONFUSED the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act with the bailout bill: they are completely separate entities, an both contain mechanisms for tracking expenditures and returns. If you're so concerned about the money, as you pretend to be here, wouldn't you want to familiarize yourself with even the very basic distinctions between bills?

2) Having made a fool of yourself by not understanding even the basic distinctions, you then just start throwing up stuff that's irrelevant to your initial point, like the money wasted in Iraq.

You need to sit down and think through your arguments. It sounds like you're just mad about something, but you don't know what, and worse, you don't care enough to find out any information about it.

[Lagomorph]

107. Nope, I just follow the money.

If it's not going to the right places, it will do far more harm than good. Someone could buy 3800 Sukhoi jet fighters or 13,000 main battle tanks with that $134 billion. What else do people do with that kind of secret cash? If it was going to do something good, it would be above board.

I know the difference between Bush's plan and Obama's plan. You seem to have seized on the opportunity to talk down to me, because of a small, smartass comment I added at the end of the article, and as far as that goes, feel free to amuse yourself.

[alcibiades_mystery]

110. You know

how to make silly accusations, but only know facts after you've4 been called on it. Credibility fail.

[Lagomorph]

112. So who's asking for credibility?

I just posted the article and made a smartass remark.

I'll leave it up to you to figure out what it all means, because, obviously, you're the smart guy.

Just as an aside, my lawyer friends laughed at my joke, because they know sarcasm when they hear it, without the smilie.

I'm the dumb guy in our poker group, all I have is a Bachelor's degree in Business Admin.

[alcibiades_mystery]

115. I believe

that you're the dumb guy in your poker group. You have credibility on that point.

[Lagomorph]

116. LOL! You're cracking me up!

I don't see you attacking the people who claim it's Nigerian scammers.

Or these guys...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x3919710

[Dreamer Tatum]

31. Here is some food for thought

If they're legit bonds, then roughly 1.5% of ALL United States debt was carried in that suitcase.

That is completely mind-boggling.

And I'm also not seeing even a little bit of a connection between the stimulus and these bonds. Do people think that the government printed bonds in $500MM increments, and started passing them out? Um, no.

[SkyDaddy7]

55. Exactly!

I think people want a conspiracy with every story they read.

[spooked911]

63. there obviously WAS a conspiracy of some sort here

we just don't know what it was yet.

[Lagomorph]

108. It was a joke, I apologize. NT

[cloudbase]

9. Maybe those Nigerian guys really do pay off. nt

[napoleon_in_rags]

111. LOL! nt

[jberryhill]

12. Dang... NOW I know what happened to my luggage....

I sat at that luggage carousel for about an hour before I filled out the form and left it with the airline.

The next day, they delivered a bag with two small suits and a bunch of Japanese shaving cream and toothpaste.

Bastards got my bag!

[CoffeeCat]

120. Was this a red, plaid bag...

...and is your name Howard Bannister?

(my spiritual soul mates will get this one...)

;)

[jberryhill]

122. Yes, Eunice /nt

[tomm2thumbs]

14. who carries around that kind of money? I told 'em to get traveler's checks but do they listen?

[DeSwiss]

15. A false bottom suitcase???

- They deserved to get caught. K&R

[frog92969]

16. Are THEY too big to fail?

[Trajan]

17. Never saw a $500 MILLION dollar bill before ...

The closest I have gotten was $1000 .... shucks ...

[cosmicone]

46. Those were not bills (currency) -- they were deposit certificates. n/t

[Trajan]

78. Yeah .... I know ....

It's called a joke .....

I will be more explicit next time: ALL future Jokes will appear thusly ...

JOKE! >>>> There once was a Nun from Nantucket ... <<<< !JOKE

Just to make sure nobody gets confused ....

[cosmicone]

80. In these times you may want to use ....

<joke>Trajan posted something </joke>

[Zhade]

18. CIA

NT!

[progressoid]

19. Ho Lee Shit.

The sad thing is this laundering happens regularly.

[Mind_your_head]

21. Yes, but.....Uhm, I would sincerely DOUBT that $134 BILLION laundering

all at one time happens "regularly".

I'm bookmarking this one to follow up later and see how it all 'turns out'.

Wow! :wow: (as the world turns....the stomach churns.....)

[Amonester]

20. Oh, Switzerland... 1 thing: smells like tax-evasion.

Secret accounts attract white-collar crooks and organized crime.

More and more similar these days...

Organized crime use violence and intimidation to scare a few.

White-collar crooks use loopholes they purchase from pols and destroy this planet a little more each day.

[proteus_lives]

23. They fucked up a deal worth $134 billion!?!

Seppuku time boys.

[Blue_Tires]

25. excellent...let's use it to get that universal healthcare off the ground!

[tomm2thumbs]

26. Oh, I see the airline found my luggage. Good, now send it back to me here at...

... oh, I don't suppose that would ever happen. (sigh)

[webDude]

27. "Smuggling Or Counterfeit-Printing?" - Market-Ticker

"But folks: This is $134.5 billion dollars worth.

If they're real, what government (the only entity that would have such a cache) is trying to unload them?

If they're fake, this is arguably the biggest counterfeiting operation ever, by a factor of many times. I've seen news about various counterfeiting operations over the years that have made me chuckle, but this one, if that's what it is, is absolutely jaw-dropping.

The cute part of this is that if the certificates are real, Italy just got a hell of a bonanza - their money laundering laws provide for a statutory 40% penalty for failure to declare instruments and cash in excess of $10,000 Euros, which means they'd garner a close-to-$40 billion dollar windfall.

That ought to help their budget problems!"



http://market-ticker.org/archives/1114-Smuggling-Or-Counterfeit-Printing.html

[Old Hob]

42. someone looking to not cause a panic or vice versa perhaps?

[safeinOhio]

56. U.S. may be able to question if the bonds were illegally held

and write off the debt. Help the bottom line.

[TaxCollector]

83. $40 Billion

Is approximately equal to the entire budget of the US Dept. of HUD for a year.

[Texano78704]

96. Windfalls and eggs

I would not count my chickens before they are hatched. Someone will come forward for $134 billion and I seriously doubt they will let the tax man (or anyone else) take 40% without fight. It should be interesting to see who claims the bonds.

[Lucky Luciano]

28. Crazy story...need a little more confirmation...I do find

it odd that there were 249 of the bonds and not 250! What happened to the other one?!

[Stinger2]

32. Overclockers UK Forums >

TWO JAPANESE CITIZENS CARRYING $134 BILLION WORTH OF UNDECLARED, POSSIBLY COUNTERFEIT U.S. BONDS DETAINED IN ITALY WHILE TRYING TO ENTER SWITZERLAND; ITALIAN AUTHORITIES ARE TRYING TO DETERMINE IF THE BONDS ARE AUTHENTIC

June 11th, 2009

There is a news blackout on this story. Please nail this one to the foreheads of the mainstream financial press until they cover it.

I am requesting an accurate English translation of the press release that was issued by the Guardia Italiana di Finanza (Italian Financial Police) on 4 June 2009 about this incident. If you have the ability to provide all of us with an accurate English translation of this press release, please contact me. Here is a machine translation of the press release.

Lagavulin submitted this Asia News Italy to the Cryptogon Subreddit two days ago. Here is the full text:

06/08/2009 15:18
ASIA – ITALY
US government securities seized from Japanese nationals, not clear whether real or fake Bonds worth US$ 134.5 billion are seized. This is the largest financial smuggling case in history. But are they real? Concern over ‘funny money’ or counterfeit securities is spreading in Asia. The international press is silent.

Milan (AsiaNews) – Italy’s financial police (Guardia italiana di Finanza) has seized US bonds worth US 134.5 billion from two Japanese nationals at Chiasso (40 km from Milan) on the border between Italy and Switzerland. They include 249 US Federal Reserve bonds worth US$ 500 million each, plus ten Kennedy bonds and other US government securities worth a billion dollar each.

http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showthread.php?t=18019465

[grantcart]

33. Can you imagine the faces of the customs officers

[BayjanDem]

35. "Do you have anything to declare?"

"Yes, These 2 t-shirts, this commemorative Pope plate, and oh yeah $134 billion worth of bonds. We really enjoyed our stay."

[KamaAina]

36. Um, whose picture is on the *$500 million* bond?!

:wtf:

edit: header

[DeSwiss]

49. I can't quite make it out......

- but with that right profile, it sort of looks like Ken Lay to me....



http://blueskysunshine.org/blog/?p=1707">US Treasury documents confiscated by Italian authorities

on edit: image correction

[Optical.Catalyst]

50. Gipper

<>

[thelordofhell]

37. I can't wait for the movie......Catch Me If You Can 2

It should star that guy from Harold and Kumar and that guy from Heroes.

[Strong Atheist]

74. Welcome to DU!

:toast:

[thelordofhell]

91. Thank you

:beer:

[many a good man]

38. Glad to hear SOMEONE finally cashed in on their Nigerian email

And here I thought it was just a scam.

[Poll_Blind]

40. This story leaves out an interesting detail from the original, Italian, article:

From this website, some generic news forum it looks like but with a couple of Italian-speaking users who were nice enough to do a full translation of the original Italian article. I did a Google Translate which seems to back up the bit I bolded. Here are both of the user translations with a bit about Japanese bank documents, you can read the full translations at the link above:

Apart from the securities the Japanese men were carrying a considerable sum of original bank documents.

And...

In addition to the bonds the two Japanese were carrying a large amount of original banking documentation.

Wonder what that means?!

PB

[skoalyman]

41. book-em bailout ben there to big ta fail

:rofl:

[caseymoz]

45. Oh, now that could be a major scandal.

This doesn't say to me bank heist. Which bank was transferring funds to Switzerland? And why did they want it done outside of formal channels?

This may end up being much bigger scandal than Madoff, far bigger.

[Poll_Blind]

85. If they were bearer bonds (hard to imagine bearer bonds in that amount) then...

...conceivably the bonds could have been making their way to Switzerland to be sold (really traded) for some other currency. As in, trying to move whatever those bonds are worth (or some fraction thereof) into another currency. A friend mentioned that if they were already going to Switzerland a deal with (someone/something) had likely been worked out.

Pure speculation though.

PB

[cosmicone]

48. They wanted to deposit the instruments in a swiss bank.

The original bank documentation was supporting documents to prove they were real and the money was theirs (or their corporation's) and bank's certificate so they could comply with the anti-terrorism/anti-moneylaundering regulations.

They should have just FedExed the documents. Carrying them on person was too risky (e.g Air France 447) which raises the suspicion of counterfeit.

Each t-bond and t-note is now also electronic to avoid the mishaps upon losing the instrument.

[Poll_Blind]

86. I also noticed that the STRIPS (law?) doesn't cover bonds pre 1982/84.

STRIPS is what makes you have to register a social (for the IRS) when you make bring in coupons for bonds like that. I also read something that indicated that because of the history of bonds, the last bearer bond that would mature would be sometime in 2013. Sorry, no links for either but you could look up the STRIPS legislation. So: Huge denomination bonds which you could still use like the bearer bonds of old.

FWIW. YMMV. :)

PB

[snot]

118. I don't think Fed Ex sells insurance in that amount.

[snot]

117. Neither translation says "Japanese" bank documents.

[earcandle]

43. who is Leo Wanta? he seems to have lost some money, big money, I hear.

or is that another nigerian tin foil hat people are wearing? 

[caseymoz]

47. How lucky is that? Italy has won the lottery without even buying a ticket.

:bounce:

Let me guess: They are going to use the funds to build schools and hospitals in Sicily.

:sarcasm: I think not somehow.

Did I really read two guys were traveling with more than a hundred billion dollars? I sense the beginning of a very big scandal. It might be arms dealing, nuclear weapons, or even our TARP funds.

[pjt7]

51. This is reason #146 why the FED needs to be freakin audited

H.R. 1207

Please call you're Congressmen.

[muriel_volestrangler]

52. Meh - that's small change

Compare it to these guys, who really knew how to aim for the big time:

Trillions of fake US bonds seized

United States and Philippine officials have seized more than $2,000bn (two trillion) in fake US Federal Reserve bonds in the southern Philippines.

They said the large-denomination counterfeit bonds may have been intended to be sold as part of ''lost treasure'' scam where buyers are told the documents have recently been found.
...
David Popp of the US Treasury Department said the fakes were of very good quality, but some of the bond denominations did not exist.

The US bonds were in denominations ranging from tens of thousands of dollars to $250m, while the counterfeit bonds of other countries had a face value as low as $30.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/1180171.stm

And yeah, if you're looking to do a 'lost treasure' scam, Switzerland would be a good place to do it - "oh, look what we've uncovered in a safe deposit box in an untraceable account. Probably belonged to some drug lord, so you wouldn't be robbing anyone if you helped us take it. Why don't you pay us 10% of the face value, and it's yours?"

[Qutzupalotl]

104. !!!

Wow.

I don't know if I'm reassured that they are possibly counterfeits, or even more worried.

Dumping fakes probably wouldn't affect our economy, but an epidemic of fakes conceivably could.

:tinfoilhat:

[DFW]

53. One very glaring oddity in this story that warrants further confirmation

It states that the Italian authorities grabbed the two in Chiasso trying to enter Switzerland.

Nice try.

Chiasso IS IN SWITZERLAND, not Italy. If they made it to Chiasso, they were home free. The
only ones that would have been arrested in Chiasso would have been the Italian authorities
for carrying out their official duties in a country where they are not authorized to do so.
This is not without precedent. When the French customs got a little overeager during Mitterand's
first term, and started pursuing French citizens within Switzerland, they got arrested. The
Swiss would have expected no less if any of their guys got caught doing the same thing on
the French side of the border, although I have never heard of a Swiss national trying to
hide money in France. If it was a joint Italian-Swiss sting, which was not mentioned anywhere,
if it was in Chiasso, the Swiss would have been the arresting authorities, not the GdF.

One more thing--to transport a sum THAT big, you can always find a corrupt diplomat with diplomatic
immunity, whose luggage is protected from inspection by border authorities. The Yakuza would
know that, if indeed they were involved. I doubt it's the North Koreans. $134 billion would
be enough to make North Korea to look like South Korea, and their guys would have had diplomatic
immunity, as North Koreans don't exactly travel around Europe as private businessmen.

There might be more to this story, but it already has a lot of oddities and at least one detail
(Chiasso being in Italy) that is central to the story, and completely wrong.

[moggie]

57. Chiasso is a border town n/t

[DFW]

58. Yes, but it is inside Switzerland

It's the place you want to make it to if you are trying to smuggle something out of Italy.
Italians can't arrest anyone in Chiasso. Their job is to stop their quarry before they make
it to Chiasso.

[moggie]

64. See wikipedia

Here's their picture of the customs post at Chiasso:



Caption: Customs at Chiasso towards Italy: Switzerland ends at the end of the foreground grey zone.

The background of that photo is Italy. Can you see how a journalist might refer to an arrest there as being in Chiasso?

[DFW]

82. No. Not an Italian journalist. I've been there. It's not an error a Milano journalist would make.

If the story says they were arrested in Chiasso, it implies, to anyone who has ever been there,
that they were arrested in Switzerland. Any Italian journalist, especially one from as close as
Milano, would have referred to the tiny community on the Italian side of the border by its correct
name, Ponte Chiasso. They don't shorten it. That would be like a journalist from southern Texas
referring to the Mexican town of Laredo, when everyone on both sides of the border knows that the
town on the Mexican side is Nuevo Laredo. It's the town on the Texan side that is called Laredo,
and no one I have met on either side of the border ever confuses the two. It doesn't happen. The
same goes for Chiasso (I speak both Spanish and Italian). Unless the original story was correctly
written, and subsequently sloppily recounted (I haven't yet read the original), I have a hard time
believing that someone close to the area and familiar with it would make such a huge error, which
is why I take the thing with a grain of salt.

Another thing--although Italian and EU citizens are scrutinized somewhat closely, especially if they
are not residents of the border area, Americans and Asians are usually regarded as tourists or legit
business people and are rarely closely scrutinized at that border. To have found this stuff in a
carefully concealed compartment of a suitcase implies that someone who knew of their travel plans
would have given them up, and for $134 billion, someone in the know is more likely to have arranged
a somewhat less docile way of bringing the transport to light.

[memsahib]

124. Collaboration

http://blueskysunshine.org/blog/?p=1707

This is how much was sequestered at the internation railway station in Chiasso, at the Swiss-Italian border, functionaries of the Territorial Operational Section of Chiasso, in collaboration with soldiers/members of the Financial Police of Ponte Chiasso, during the checking of bags aimed at stopping the illegal trafficing of capital.

[Union Yes]

54. Lemmee guess, they were depositing Walmart profits in an offshore account?

[Dark]

59. That's a spicy meatball. Or rather 134 billion of them.

wow.

[pam4water]

61. Can't remember where I read this. During the lost decade in Japan, the Japanese Government gave the

banks so much money they could not find places to invest it. And they did not want to keep it on their own books. So some times one banks lower level officer would deposit cash in other Japanese bank, which also had to money on their books to do anything with. When that happen the bank executives of the deposit receiving back would call the depositor's executives and make fun of them.



Random other musing:
Hum two guys. If it were one I'd go with embezzlement. Did they check the guys for tatts? Even for a drug lord that is a lot of money.

Aren't the Cayman Island the money launders' destination of choice?


I didn't know bond came in 500 million dollar denominations.

[BadDonkey]

66. That's like smuggling three Bill Gates'

[AngryAmish]

67. This is my theory: They were doing this at the behest of the North Koreans

As a sovereign government NK is allowed to buy the best printing presses. They are known to counterfeit US money with extremely high quality - they cannot be detected most of the time.

So they decided to do this with US bonds.

I read another story on Fark about this: The penalty for illegal smuggling of money or financial instruments is 40% of the load. So the Italian government might have a $53.6 billion windfall if these are real. That is real money.

The Treasury will have to check the numbers and see if these bonds are owned by who they were sold to.

This is the coolest story of the week.

(BTW, counterfeiting another nation's currency is an act of war. NK thinks they are still at war with the US.)

[Dreamer Tatum]

90. Trouble with that theory is this

When you issue an IOU for $500 MILLION DOLLARS, you tend to keep track of how many IOUs you
handed out, and to whom.

If they're bearer bonds (highly doubtful these days), the value is strictly based on what they can be traded for. Counterfeits
would be relatively easy to detect at redemption.

[Piewhacket]

69. Incredible. First...

the comments here have been hilarious and insightful. A cool group of
DUers we have. thanks for the thought provoking humor guys.

second, :wow: thats one jaw dropping amount of moolah being jockyed around just like
it didn't mean anything in terms of human suffering. Surely no government wants to
have that quantity of funds flowing into and out of their economy 'under the
radar', for it is disruptive and destabilizing and a bloody serious matter.
That's why such things are regulated everywhere, including at the border.

Third, it is beyond mischance to surmise that these funds are also
the instrumentalities of other illegal conduct (beyond illegal transfer)
and that failure to declare them is merely the 'tell' for the secrecy
surrounding that. It also goes without saying that the instrumentalities of
crime, such as drug money, are not "property" but are "contraband" and subject
to confiscation.

For no one can possibly imagine that we should not sieze and immobilize these funds
if they were being used in the support of terrorism against the US. This is done
all the time, including illegally for political purposes by BUSHCO.

Fourth, these two couriers are already quite dead. They will disappear, quietly or
otherwise, and I would not like to imagine their fate. Prompt action with fast
acting poison would be their smart move, but they are already in custody and most
likely will not be given such an opportunity. Someone very powerful directed this
transfer, and anyone who can surreptitiously redirect that much wealth I would
not even want to know, much less piss off by inconveniencing them.

this is one packed story. so get out the popcorn, this scandal can't be over.

:popcorn:

[Lagomorph]

129. It's not!

http://market-ticker.org/archives/1119-The-Saga-Of-The-Bearer-Bonds.html

Translated (by Google) from German:

Hit for the Zöllner: The contraband securities valued at 134 billion U.S. dollars are apparently real. Die italienische Finanzpolizei hatte zwei Japaner ertappt, die im doppelten Boden eines Koffers milliardenschwere Anleihen in die Schweiz schaffen wollten. The Italian financial police had two Japanese caught in the false bottom suitcase billion-dollar bonds in Switzerland wanted to create. Von dem Fund profitiert das hochverschuldete Italien. The Fund benefited from the Heavily Italy.

[no limit]

70. These have to be fakes, no way in hell there are people walking around with 134 billion

[jberryhill]

123. Seriously....

They should have just gone into Switzerland and taken it out of an ATM once they got there.

[Octafish]

71. Yakuza work with BFEE

Another example:

Know your BFEE: Killer Businessmen who Put Power & Profit Before Country

[Joanne98]

73. That's what I was thinking. We may have located some of the loot Bush stole.

Remember the 2.3 trillion dollars the Pentagon lost in 2002........

Yakuza connections... Koreans.....

While Koreans in Japan comprise only 0.05% of the population, they are a prominent part of Yakuza.

Korean Yakuza connections with the CIA

The man who paved the way for Korean-Japanese in Japan by organizing Tōsei-kai was the Korean-Japanese yakuza godfather Hisayuki Machii.<8> Born Chong Gwon Yong in 1923 in Korea under Japanese rule, Machii was an ambitious street hood who saw opportunity in Japan and seized it.

After the Japanese surrender, Machii worked with the United States Counter Intelligence Corps, which valued his staunch anti-communist beliefs. While leaders of the Japanese yakuza were imprisoned or under close scrutiny by the American occupying forces, the Korean yakuza were free to take over the lucrative black markets. But rather than trying to rival the Japanese godfathers, Machii made alliances with them, and throughout his career, he remained close to both Kodama and Taoka.<8>

Italian mafia.....

In 1999, Italian-American Mafia Bonanno family member, Mickey Zaffarano, was overheard talking about the profits of the pornography trade that both families could profit from.<14> Another Yakuza racket is bringing women of other ethnicities/races, especially East European<14> and Asian<14> to Japan under the lure of a glamourous position, then forcing the women into prostitution.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yakuza

[grahamhgreen]

75. edit. nt

[Octafish]

81. Rev. Moon bridges various players

When it comes to money and power, members of the "ruling elite" don't play fair. It's how they stay that way.

Regarding Moon:

Know your BFEE: Rev. Sun Myung Moon OWNS Poppy Bush

Know your BFEE: 1984 Death of Outstanding Congressional Staffer Buried Poppy-Moon Relationship

Know your BFEE: Forget Rev. Wright! It’s Bush and His Cronies Who Owe an Apology for Rev. Moon!


Regarding the movement of money from the Mope Class to the Gangster Class:

Know your BFEE: Goldmine Sacked or the Best Way to Rob a Bank Is to Own One

Know your BFEE: Phil Gramm, the Meyer Lansky of the War Party, Set-Up the Biggest Bank Heist Ever.


Sorry to sound so pedantic, but when it comes to international money laundering and secret Swiss bank accounts and perpetual war for a perpetual piece of the action, one name seems to always spring to mind. Thank you for understanding and thank you for all you've done about them, Joanne98.

[Joanne98]

92. Bingo

[earth mom]

100. Octafish & Joanne98...

:applause:

[Strong Atheist]

72. Belated Welcome to DU!

:toast:

[grahamhgreen]

76. The bills have serial numbers - who bought them, when and where, should be easy to track. nt

[grahamhgreen]

77. So I take it THIS IS 134 BILLION WE DON'T NEED TO PAY BACK AND CAN PUT ON THE BALANCE SHEETS???

I mean why should we need pay back ill gotten treasury bills????

Looks like we have a nest egg for single payer....

[troubledamerican]

84. But There Are No Conspiracies Influencing World Events.

I'm certain there's a perfectly legitimate reason for this story.

[renate]

87. if there's ANY chance of this being real...

... why isn't this story on cnn.com or nytimes.com? (At least as of 8:03 am.) It's kind of weird. I don't want to be all :tinfoilhat: but this ought to appear in more places than just fark.com.

[JackRiddler]

88. While even more outlandish things have happened, my bet is on counterfeits.

Two guys with a false-bottom suitcase? Uh-huh.

a) Launderers of real instruments in the 134-billion-dollar league would not be smuggling paper over borders in suitcases via mules. They would be landing in private jets and meeting their personal Swiss bankers, with protection from undue searches already arranged.

b) Governments making deals on this amount in US debt would walk in the front door of whatever entity they thought was suitable and engage in direct negotiations. If they make a deal, even on bearer bonds, the transfer looks something like in a.

c) See title of this post: more outlandish things have happened, of course. Oliver North and Bud McFarlane took a cake to Iran, I hear. (Wonder what was in the cake?)

By the way, do these two have an Israeli aunt whose daughter just accidentally threw out a million dollars her mom had concealed in an old mattress?

[musiclawyer]

89. Somebody send this to Rachel Maddow or Keith O

[Poll_Blind]

93. UPDATE posted in LBN, contents of that post here:

From this post in LBN:

Milan (AsiaNews) – There have been new developments with regards to the story of US$ 134.5 billion in US government bonds seized by Italy’s financial police at Ponte Chiasso on the Italian-Swiss border, which AsiaNews reported four days ago. News about it initially made it to the front page of many Italian papers, but not of the international press. Since yesterday though, some reports have published by English-language news agencies. And some commentators are starting to link the story to reports in US press dating back to 30 March.
On that date the US Treasury Department announced that it had about US$ 134.5 billion left in its financial-rescue fund, the Troubled Asset Relief Program (TARP), whose purpose is to purchase assets and equity to buttress companies in trouble. The existence of such means that the Obama administration may not have to go to Congress for additional funds, something which is especially important since many lawmakers have vowed to oppose any requests for more money.

At the same time, Japan’s Kyodo news agency has reported that the resignation of Japan’s Interior Minister Kunio Hatoyama might also be related to the Ponte Chiasso affair. Officially the minister quit as a result of a row over who should head the state-owned Japan Post, but some sources have suggested that such a scenario is not very plausible since Mr Hatoyama was Prime Minister Taro Aso’s main ally in his rise to the prime minister’s office, and is especially unconvincing since the ruling coalition government has to face elections in just two weeks time. Indeed there are many reasons to connect the Ponte Chiasso incident to the minister’s resignation.

This is one of the MAIN reasons that the popcorn icon exists and I'm not going to pass up the opportunity:
:popcorn:

There.

PB

[AngryAmish]

94. Another possibility: Japanese government is dumping the dollar

First: I think this guy is a blogger somewhere - it was linked from a RW site.

Anyway, the gist is the Japanese government may be dumping the dollar on the sly.

BUT: if they were, why not do it in a diplomatic pouch? Swiss bankers use their diplomatic pouches all the time for money laundering.


This is such a cool case.

[Poll_Blind]

95. OR its a bit of intrigue (say North Korean) to give the impression that they are.

I've been roving around using Google Translate on Japanese news sources and they aren't waiting long before pointing the finger at North Korea's government-run forging industry. But it is very unclear at this point- nobody's even sure if they're Japanese citizens at all.

PB

[CoffeeCat]

121. There are very few true mysteries...

...in the world today, but this is one of them!

[ooglymoogly]

97. With a bunch of thugs in charge of the Treasury,

the Fed. Reserve, and crooked money men around the world working in tandem; Any of the above scenarios is possible. Money in these amounts is fungible only in the right hands and that narrows the field to a very small few of highly connected and exquisitely situated people. I like an above poster also believe this will quickly be covered up. This is too big to let the light of day in. If these guys got caught; How many others and how many of the "lost" trillions didn't get caught?

Let the intrigue begin.

[The_Commonist]

98. Interesting...

I'll bet this story disappears, along with those two guys...

[Poll_Blind]

101. Short video of the bonds HERE:

HERE (in DU Videos forum)

PB

[scipan]

102. more news

Italian Police Ask SEC to Authenticate Seized U.S. Treasuries
Share | Email | Print | A A A

By Sonia Sirletti and John Glover

June 12 (Bloomberg) -- Italy’s financial police said they asked the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission to authenticate U.S. government bonds found in the false bottom of a suitcase carried by two Japanese travelers attempting to cross into Switzerland.

The bonds, with a face value of more than $134 billion, are probably forgeries, Colonel Rodolfo Mecarelli of the Guardia di Finanza in Como, Italy, said today. If the notes are genuine, the pair would be the U.S. government’s fourth-biggest creditor, ahead of the U.K. with $128 billion of U.S. debt and just behind Russia, which is owed $138 billion.

The seized notes include 249 securities with a face value of $500 million each and 10 additional bonds with a value of more than $1 billion, the police force said on its Web site. Such high denominations would not have existed in 1934, the purported issue date of the notes, Mecarelli said. Moreover, the “Kennedy” classification of the bonds doesn’t appear to exist, he said.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601101&sid=afJXAA1ahZyo

Sounds like they're probably fake.

[memsahib]

125. One Man's Opinion It Is Fake

That they are fake is the Colonel of the Italian Finance Police's opinion. The SEC's opinion hasn't come in yet. Of course, if they are real but it suits those involved to declare them fake, then it will be so declared.

[Stinger2]

103. "the quality of the counterfeit work is such that the fake bonds are undistinguishable from the real

Counterfeit or just fake?

The article notes that this is "mind-boggling" to a lot of people, probably a lot of people like me, to know that that if they are fake, "the quality of the counterfeit work is such that the fake bonds are undistinguishable from the real ones." Yow! Indistinguishable! Detection-proof counterfeiting!

Anyway, without revealing how I can get myself a little taste of this successful and obviously very lucrative counterfeiting, which is bound to be a nice cottage industry ("Work from home only minutes a week to make billions of dollars a day!"), they go on to report that Italy's financial police seized the $134.5 billion in US bonds from two Japanese nationals at a border town between Italy and Switzerland.

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Global_Economy/KF13Dj01.html

I remember years ago a cop telling me that if you had been caught just one time speeding logically you have done it many times before you have been caught.

[pjt7]

106. Dennis Kucinich is head of a Financial Oversight Committe

If this is true he should hold a hearing.

I also don't understand why he has never held a hearing into the put option of 9.11, he said he would, look into it?

[Mind_your_head]

126. I think the WORLD of Dennis Kucinich, but "holding a hearing"......

....is just so much "kumbaya" and nothing substantive/concrete.

Tis True.

[PeacePal]

105. Gunther and Japanese Financee Minister In ITALY this week, propped up Treasury values

Doesn't it seem odd the G8 is meeting in Italy this weekend, but Geithner met with the Japanese Foriegn Minister in advance, and their announcement pushed up the value of Treasuries?

U.S. Treasurys rise after Japan signals trust

LONDON (MarketWatch)-- U.S. Treasurys extended gains Friday, after Japanese Finance Minister Kaoru Yosano indicated the second-largest foreign holder of the securities will continue to buy them. "We have complete trust in the fact that the U.S. views its strong-dollar policy as fundamental," Yosano told Bloomberg in an interview in Tokyo on June 10 before attending a meeting of G8 finance ministers in Italy. "So our trust in U.S. Treasurys is absolutely unshakable." The yield on the 10-year U.S. Treasury note fell to 3.80% in recent action, a decline of around 6 basis points. Yields move inversely to price. The 10-year yield hit 4% Thursday, its highest level since October, but then retreated.

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/us-treasurys-rise-after-japan-signals-trust


G8:Japan MOF: Fin Min, Geithner Agree Econ Better Than Before

LECCE, Italy (Dow Jones)--Japan's Finance Minister Kaoru Yosano and his U.S. counterpart agreed that their broad economic circumstances have improved, a ministry official said Friday, indicating the world's two largest economies share the view that the worst of the downturn is behind them.

U.S. Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner "said that U.S. economic conditions have become more stable than before ... and that deflationary risks appear to be receding," the official told reporters on condition of anonymity.

"Yosano also said both (Japan and U.S.) economies are improving," although they remain on a downward trend, he added.

The Japanese finance chief met Geithner earlier in the day and discussed economic issues before attending the meeting of finance ministers from the Group of Eight leading industrialized nations.

The official added that they didn't talk about recent climbs in long-term interest rates and crude oil prices, which are now considered destabilizing factors for the hoped for economic recovery. Discussions about U.S. Treasuries and the dollar-yen exchange rate didn't arise, he said.

-By Tomoyuki Tachikawa, Dow Jones Newswires; 813-6895-7556; [e-mail]
http://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-20090612-711887.html

Google G8 Italy for more!

If I hadn't already lost my 401K, I'd consider dumping any Treasuries!

[Stinger2]

119. Lets say this is Funny Money, ounce it gets deposited in a account it becomes real money,

Credit Crisis to Escalate as Mortgage Bond Market Losses to Pass $3 Trillions!

One hears estimates of $200 billion on total mortgage bond losses from the ... mortgage debacle in the United States is described as a subprime loan problem. ... So subprime mortgage bonds have lost over $1.1 trillion. .... exposing the Bank of Italy in its hidden leases to Wall Street hedge funds

http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article3474.html


Lets say this is Funny Money, ounce it gets deposited in a account it becomes real money,

[muriel_volestrangler]

128. Who says it 'becomes real money'?

These are bonds. Someone might hand over real money for them, if they're fooled. But that doesn't mean they become 'real'. They are still fake. It's just anyone who hands over money for them that loses.

[Po_d Mainiac]

130. lets keep this alive a bit longer

http://market-ticker.org/authors/2-Karl-Denninger/P2.html

[PassingFair]

131. kick.

Anyone hear any more about these?

:shrug:

[memsahib]

132. More Speculation

http://cannonfire.blogspot.com/2009/06/mystery-bonds-enter-cult-now-it-gets.html

[memsahib]

133. US Treasury Confirms Bonds Fake, But More Questions Raised

US Says Bonds Seized In Italy Are "Clearly Fake"
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=adc1HD7mWY4A

Bearer Bonds Saga: Resolution?
http://market-ticker.denninger.net/archives/1131-Bearer-Bonds-Saga-Resolution.html

[medeak]

134. k & r

[memsahib]

137. Employees Of Japan Finance Ministry Arrested

http://www.turnerradionetwork.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=59:employees-of-japan-finance-ministry-arrested-in-italy-trying-tosmuggle-134-billion-in-us-treasuries-in-suitcases&catid=1:latest-news&Itemid=50

Turner Radio Network has now confirmed the two men arrested by Italy were trying to secretly dump Bonds that were previously held by the nation of Japan. The men arrested have told Italian police they were ordered to move the Bonds by the government of Japan because the Japanese government has lost faith in the ability of the U.S. government to repay its debts.