Bellevue abortion provider: Killers aren't Christians, they're terrorists

[Omaha Steve]

Source: Omaha World Herald

BY WES TAYLOR

The slaying Sunday of one of the nation's most prominent abortion providers has left a local colleague outraged but with a renewed resolve. Dr. LeRoy Carhart of Bellevue is preparing to temporarily take the helm at his slain friend's clinic in Wichita, Kan.

"Harm one of us, it won't do anything to harm the movement," said Carhart, head of the Abortion and Contraception Clinic of Nebraska.

Carhart described himself as a close friend of Dr. George Tiller's. Tiller was shot and killed Sunday morning in the lobby of the Lutheran church he attends in Wichita, Kan. He was serving as an usher.


Dr. George Tiller, the nation's most prominent and controversial provider of late-term abortions, was shot to death Sunday in the Wichita, Kan., Lutheran church where he was ushering.

The 67-year-old Tiller, who was controversial for performing late-term abortions, had been targeted for decades and at one point had the protection of federal marshals. In 1993, he was shot in both arms by a woman who remains in prison. His clinic was recently vandalized.


Read more: http://www.omaha.com/index.php?u_page=2798&u_sid=10644305

---

Killing Doctors is not pro life. The end does not justify the means to God or any other deity. Dr. Carhart's clinic has been in the news a lot too. I understand he is under protection now.

[Xipe Totec]

1. The Christian Right got what the prayed for; why be coy now? n/t

[Trusmack]

27. Christianity

It's important to understand that just because one claims to be a Christian it does not mean he/she is. The Bible explains clearly what a true Christian is. The number of true Christians in the US or the world for that matter is far less than what most surveys claim. The point here is that it is extremely unlikely that whoever is responsible for this shooting is not a true Christian even if this person thinks he is. A true Christian would not take the life of a person they are fairly certain is not saved(born again). It is highly unlikely a true Christian would,with malice aforethought, murder another man because that man is a murderer. A true Christian knows that "vengeance is mine; I will repay saith the Lord." Romans 12 :19b

[Skittles]

41. I am more "Christian" than any Christian I know

and I am Agnostic

[Q3JR4]

44. Amen....

Q3JR4
Atheist.

[roody]

53. me too, an atheist

[No Elephants]

66. So was I, when I was an atheist. I returned to Christianity. Neither before nor after

I was an atheist did I become any more evil than I was when I was an atheist.

We are drawing the wrong lines and therefore defining the problem incorrectly. And when you do that, you treat the problem incorrectly. The problem is not Christians. It is people who insist that others must live as they require, instead of simply worrying about how they themselves live. (Which insistence, btw, directly conflicts with Christ's teachings--as does murder, of course.) Atheists have insisted that entire nations must live as they dictate. Christians have no corner on that.

[Stellabella]

74. Religion and Christianity make defending and enabling evil possible.

Just look at Bush and his 'God told me to invade Iraq' bullshit. Christians have been torturing 'blasphemers and heretics' for centuries.

You can't teach me anything about 'Christianity'. I grew up fundie and found that the worst, meanest people on the block almost always have crosses all over their houses. They sit in church on Sunday and think that gives them license to be as cruel as they want. I'm an atheist because I outgrew fairy tales and started thinking about life instead of accepting pablum.

[Xipe Totec]

46. Let's face it, Christ is the only true Christian who has ever lived

The rest are just posers.

If I accept your premise then Christianity, as a movement, does not exist.

[Bill McBlueState]

49. I've heard the same thing about Scotsmen

Just because one claims to be a Scotsman does not mean one is. A true Scotsman would never put sugar on his porridge, yet many people who think they are Scotsmen put sugar on their porridge. Caledonius 6:11

[GoddessOfGuinness]

61. Will god smite him if he puts sugar on his haggis?

Or is it up to the people to stone him?

[GoddessOfGuinness]

60. "it is extremely unlikely that whoever is responsible for this shooting is not a true Christian"

I think you mean it is unlikely that he IS a true Christian...or it is likely that he is NOT a true Christian?

[FiveGoodMen]

86. We're having a problem in this country with the millions of people who call themselves Christians

The fact that they're not living up to the ideals set out for them is their problem.

The fact that they keep causing problems in the name of their church is everyone's problem.

What do you propose that we call this group of totalitarians and terrorists other than the name that they use for themselves?

[donco6]

91. The ultimate out: A True Christian Would Never Do 'X'

Not a real scotsman, indeed.

[JonQ]

2. He's both

they aren't mutually exclusive. Christians can be bigoted and sociopathic and still be christians.

I hate this argument when muslims use it to avoid having to criticize other muslims for terrorist activity (if they misbehave they can't be considered muslims, so islam is still perfect and peaceful despite them), and I hate it when christians use it. Own up for your extremists, that's the first step to getting rid of them.

That being said most christians that I've heard have come out overwhelmingly against the murder, to their credit.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

22. Why did they wait so long?

That homicidal rhetoric isn't new, so why are "good Christians" now condemning the very thing that's been under their collective smug, righteous, holy noses the whole time? Violence against the medical people who legally - LEGALLY - take care of women's health needs isn't new. How come the priests and ministers haven't been denouncing this kind of behavior, speech, activity from their respective pulpits?

Screw them all. Their silence contributed to this situation, and I say they're all as culpable as the shooter - he's one of theirs, whether they care to acknowledge him or not.

Weasels, all of them.

Things are fine while a good man has to travel in an armored car and the woman who shot him sixteen years ago is still in prison, when women's clinic workers have to worry about who's coming through that door when they unlock it, when a doctor's home address is posted on the Internet so that "true believers" can terrorize him, but as soon as it looks like one of their own did something this horrible - murdered a 67-year-old man, a doctor, husband, father, grandfather in his church on a Sunday morning - they backpedal and leave the shooter, the stooge they're all secretly cheering for, to fend for himself.

Silence is assent, and their silence has been deafening........................

[moggie]

32. Plausible deniability n/t

[JonQ]

68. Ask yourself this

do you maintain the same level of hatred and contempt for muslim leaders who "remain silent" in the face of homicidal rhetoric some of their members are spewing?

I'm guessing they don't go after these people because for the most part these killers aren't standing up in church saying they're going to go out and kill some doctors today. Simply put, unless there is a specific example to criticize then you probably aren't going to make an issue of it. How many times a day to you spend denouncing anti-war activists who assassinate army recruiters, or environmental terrorists? I'm guessing not too many, is it safe to assume then they you are for these things?

Anyway, have you noticed the reactions from muslim leaders in this country to the recent muslim terrorist action (and yes, I label the Tiller murder an act of religious terrorism as well)? It's been substantially muted compared to the immediate condemnation from christian leaders for their guy. I can only imaging the outrage you have saved up for them. For instance, all muslims are just as culpable of that act of terrorism, he's one of theirs whether they care to acknowledge him or not.

All muslims are weasels.

"Silence is assent, and their silence has been deafening........................"

And yet you criticize them when they condemn these actions publicly and loudly. So silence is consent. Public denunciation is also consent. So what isn't consent in your eyes? Is there a correct course of action for christians, or should they all just be rounded up and shot?

[Regret My New Name]

79. What do muslim terrorists and muslim leaders have to do with crazy Christians?

The two situations are totally different. If you get why it is, then no amount of explaining is going to make you understand.

[JonQ]

90. Not really

they are fairly similiar.

A religious zealot commits an act of terrorism against a target many in his community (especially the more hardline and radical members) consider to be an enemy on ideological grounds.

Which one am I talking about?

And why are all christians and pro-lifers to blame for the tiller assasination, as many have claimed, because he was a christian and echoed some of their beliefs, but all muslims and anti-war protestors are not to blame for the army recruiting assasination, even though he's a muslim and echoed some of their beliefs?

Double standards, despite the name, aren't twice as good as merely having standards.

[pleah]

3. K&R

[provis99]

4. Killing is perfectly acceptable to Christianity

there's no conflict between being an evil killer and being a Christian. Its baloney when people say "Oh, a REAL Christian wouldn't do that". I say bull; if a Christian commits a murder, then a Christian has committed a murder, and rationalizations are ridiculous.

[humblebum]

9. Even insinuating that all christians are prone to doing such a thing

is like saying all atheists are like Enver Hoxha of Albania, or Stalin, or Pol Pot. It's ridiculous.

[Stellabella]

11. That's not what the poster said.

He/she said that Christianity and killing aren't mutually exclusive, and it's certainly true. Just look through the Old Testament - there are thousands and thousands of accounts of God ordering his followers to kill whole populations, including babies and toddlers.

Then the murderers are allowed to keep the virgin women for fun!

Some book.

[humblebum]

12. there were no Christians in the OT. I'll rephrase

Being Atheist and killing aren't mutually exclusive. The problem is fanaticism which is a human problem.

[Stellabella]

15. So?

I don't see many atheists going around stalking anybody. On the other hand, religions have started almost all the wars in human history.

[humblebum]

16. No offense, but it is very common to see atheists stalking

Christian functions today. Also more people have died at the hands of atheistic governments than from any other.

[truthisfreedom]

18. Yo 105 post authority:

Show us links to your purported facts. I'm not buying it.

[humblebum]

21. Well? The Guinness Book of World Records:

Look up the category "Judicial" and under the subject of "Crimes: Mass Killings," the greatest massacre ever imputed by the government of one sovereign against the government of another is 26.3 million Chinese during the regime of Mao Tse Tung between the years of 1949 and May 1965. The Walker Report published by the U.S. Senate Committee of the Judiciary in July 1971 placed the parameters of the total death toll in China since 1949 between 32 and 61.7 million people. An estimate of 63.7 million was published by Figaro magazine on November 5, 1978.
In the U.S.S.R. the Nobel Prize winner, Alexander Solzhenitsyn estimates the loss of life from state repression and terrorism from October 1917 to December 1959 under Lenin and Stalin and Khrushchev at 66.7 million.
Finally, in Cambodia "as a percentage of a nation's total population, the worst genocide appears to be that in Cambodia, formerly Kampuchea. According to the Khmer Rouge foreign minister, more than one third of the eight million Khmer were killed between April 17, 1975 and January 1979. One third of the entire country was put to death under the rule of Pol Pot, the founder of the Communist Party of Kampuchea. During that time towns, money and property were abolished. Economic execution by bayonet and club was introduced for such offenses as falling asleep during the day, asking too many questions, playing non-communist music, being old and feeble, being the offspring of an undesirable, or being too well educated. In fact, deaths in the Tuol Sleng interrogation center in Phnom Penh, which is the capitol of Kampuchea, reached 582 in a day."

[chwaliszewski]

25. Atheists

I love how Stalin, Mao, and Pol Pot are always brought up when talking about atheism and murder/genocide. The fact is that all three of those examples are dictators who slaughtered their own not in the name of atheism or because (they) were atheists, but because they did not want their populations thinking there was a higher power than the dictators themselves. Other religions have had the same genocide in the name of their god. These three acted as if they were god. True story.

[humblebum]

28. They were all self-declared atheists which was a requirement

of the Communist party. Groups such as the 'League of the Militant Godless' were dedicated to spreading atheism in all areas of society in the Soviet Union and openly persecuting all religious adherents. This was done in the name of atheism. Some things you simply cannot deny. Just like any religious history, there are skeletons in the closet. It all boils down to fanaticism. One thing is for certain, it was not religious people who carried out the deeds you are referencing.

[chwaliszewski]

34. I agree except for your last sentence.

Actually, atheism is a form of religion in the sense that zero is a number. The difference being atheism has no deity or "Holy Book" but still has a following based on certain beliefs. Atheism itself is not responsible for the detestable actions that are done supposedly in its name just like Christianity or Islam, although the Bible & Qur'an have documented just that in their respective religion's name. Atheism was merely the medium used for the promotion of a hierarchy of power through intimidation and fear (Your God can't save you). Essentially, no religion or non-religion is better than any other one but the common problem of all is humans using them to hide behind or to justify their actions.

[ProfessorGAC]

45. Way To Miss The Point!

The point of the post to which you replied was that none of these murderous dictators were doing their repression and killing FOR atheism, or because of their atheistic belief.

It was clearly and obviously a function of political power and cementing of same.

You're confusing their actions and atheism as if they were causally linked, when those two facts are merely conincedent.
GAC

[humblebum]

48. Actually it was in large part done for atheism. It was an attempt to

destroy all religious adherence. The official state atheism was called "Scientific Atheism" and all Communist party members were required to declare themselves atheists, and to openly persecute and ridicule any religious person. Groups like the 'League of the Militant Godless'(among several others) did accept the mission of spreading atheism and outing those holding any religious beliefs. Bertrand Russell was an outspoken supporter of the revolution. So, in reality people can be made into fanatics toward anything, if the conditions exist. It doesn't take religion to do it.

[Bill McBlueState]

51. I'm just not sure where you're going with this argument

Saying, "But atheists are capable of evil, too!" doesn't make Christianity look any more appealing.

[humblebum]

56. I never said that. But what I was pointing out was simply

that there are fanatics who will push the limits regardless of their political or spiritual orientation. The problem is not religion nor unbelief, but with those who would attempt to force feed others those ideals. Take away religion and you will still have problems with radical behavior. It is a human behavior thing, not a religious thing.

[No Elephants]

64. Nothing would make it look more appealing if you believe the mega-lie that every Christian is

evil or that this shooter is representing all of Christendom when he shoots. Many Christians are pro-choice. Stereotyping an entire group because of the negative actions of one or a few is the essence of bigoty. For some reason, people who would never do that to other groups--even other religious groups--feel very comfortable doing it to Christians, But, it's still bigotry.

[The Stranger]

62. How many have been burned at the stake, tortured, or murdered at the hands of theists?

And show me the links.

[Stellabella]

70. Is this question for real?

Have you ever heard of the Crusades or the Inquisition?

Why don't you take a look at the "12 Most Horrifying Torture Devices" for a short list of just some of the horror inflicted on 'blasphemers and heretics' by Christians?

http://www.listaholic.com/12-of-the-most-horrifying-torture-devices-in-history.html

Now I'd like to see links pointing to how violent atheists have been through history.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

26. Not enough, in my opinion ..........

I'm weary, just bored to tears, by the whining of Christians who have owned this country for so long.

I'm sick of ignoramuses who claim that we are a "Christian country"; we're not, and if you knew one damn thing about how our country was founded, you'd understand that.

We are not "build on Judeo-Christian principles"; we came into being precisely IN SPITE OF those principles. We are a nation of laws. Man's laws, not your god's laws.

We are a nation of laws - I'm saying it twice - and that's good to remember because a man was murdered yesterday because he was acting legally in the execution of his profession. And, yeah, execution is what he got because one misguided, encouraged, deranged, foul Christian decided he knew better than anyone else that Dr. Tiller needed to be killed.

One man's beliefs are to be respected, but they end at the tip of my nose, when you start getting into my face. My beliefs are just as valid as yours, and my beliefs say YOU DO NOT MURDER PEOPLE BECAUSE YOU DON'T LIKE WHAT THEY DO FOR A LIVING.

I'm tired of organized religion and its incessant mingling its tax-free status with the blatant manipulation of its flocks when political outcomes are at issue. I'm tired of virgin priests determining what should happen to women who have sex. Pedophiles get a better deal from the Catholic Church than do women who choose abortions.

That's what organized religion has brought us - heartbreak, ruined lives, damaged children, frightened women, unwanted kids, dead doctors, and a nation that, I hope, has finally had enough of their pseudo-compassionate bullshit and will now do all it can to tell them to shut the hell up.................................

[humblebum]

35. If you didn't notice, he was a Christian and killed in his own church

surrounded by his fellow Christians who accepted him into their congregation.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

38. I noticed .............

That has nothing to do with my post..............

[humblebum]

40. You're entitled to your opinion. I don't agree with much of it, but

Christians certainly haven't cornered the market on fanaticism.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

55. No one claimed that ..........

You're now introducing a new factor which had nothing to do with my post.

Organized religion will always cause turmoil - an historical fact.................

[humblebum]

57. I'm not too sure where you get your historical facts, but it's also

quite obvious that organized atheism will cause turmoil.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

67. That's funny -

"organized atheism".

Yeah, those "organized atheists," in their matching t-shirts and beanies sure do a whole lot of damage, I've noticed.

You're clearly confusing political with religious, political with irreligious. Those comparisons don't fly. You're building your house on a foundation of water.

In any event, enjoy your time here................

[humblebum]

75. Evidently you haven't read earlier posts.

Scientific Atheism was highly organized and somewhat successful in its attempt to wipe out religion.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

77. You're boring........

Now, you're history..............

[Stellabella]

84. And he's stupid too.

[Stellabella]

71. Geez, you just don't get it.

There is no such thing as 'organized atheism'. Atheism is defined as LACK OF BELIEF.

Your hysterical defense of Christianity proves my point. I'll bet your blood is boiling as you type. Now you're on ignore.

[humblebum]

76. I hate to tell you but the soviets' Scientific Atheism was extremely organized

and focused on their purpose. American Atheists is an organization with a specific mission and well organized. Freedom from Religion is well focused and organized. So yes atheism is organized and has been for a long time.

[Catshrink]

58. Well said.

And to add to your post: Jefferson and Franklin and a couple other of our nation's founders weren't Christian but were Deists. I'd love to shove that factoid in a fundie's face.

[Stellabella]

85. Right on.

Organized religion has, since the beginning, been used to quell the masses and keep poor people in their place. It has also been used to use those same people as cannon fodder in unnecessary wars. Remember, it used to be illegal to read a book unless you were part of the church.

After all, if you have a 'reward' after death, why would you fight for yourself now?

[jhrobbins]

19. I don't even understand what that means-have you somehow polled all the stalkers.

And FYI, while there are many wars Christians have to answer for, the two largest wholesale mass murderers in history (whose total murders on their hands add up to all of the victims of 'Christian' wars) were Hitler and Stalin. SO, I think there is enough blame to go around - atheist and CHristian alike. When I hear this argument, it almost seems like the corollary to this would be, if there were no Christians (usually Muslims, Jews, et al are excluded in this count), then there would be no more wars and evil doers - all of the bad human nature would go away and the world would be a beautiful place finally.
I really have never understood this about some atheists (just like I don't understand rabid evangelicals either - they seem to be twin son of different mothers). THey cannot just be atheists without making someone else wrong. Evangelicals cannot just be happy in their notion that they think they have the key to happiness - they have to make non believers wrong.
Flame on

[madmom]

23. Hitler was a christian......

http://www.humanismbyjoe.com/hitler.htm
http://www.nobeliefs.com/speeches.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_Hitler's_religious_beliefs

[humblebum]

33. Hitler was also a student of Nietzsche's works so his devotion to Christianity

is debatable. Another case of fanaticism.

[jhrobbins]

78. I have studied Hitler all my adult life and I would say I know as much as any

lay person knows about him that hasn't made him an acadmic pursuit. HITLER WAS NOT A CHRISTIAN - he professed Christianity at the beginning , much like so mnay of our esteemed conservative leaders today, and then abandoned it when he no longer needed it.

[madmom]

83. He spouted a lot of christian philosophy to make his point. That doesn't say a lot

for that particular philosophy IMO and it kind of makes a point about how it can be and is used for terrible things.

[jhrobbins]

87. I'm sure that's true for many things. I prefer to try and hold on to the baby.

[Bill McBlueState]

52. Yep, Christians and atheists are both capable of great evil

Which is interesting, because one of the most popular talking points of Christians is that their religion is a force for greater morality.

[Bill McBlueState]

50. Agreed, "being Atheist and killing aren't mutually exclusive"

But I notice you're going with "Atheists are sometimes horrible, too!" rather than disputing the poster's original claim that Christians can commit evil acts.

Since Christians and atheists are more-or-less equally capable of either good or evil, it's clear that these are simply labels that describe opinions about gods, not guarantees of a particular type of behavior.

[humblebum]

89. It appears that you and I have found a mutual agreement. who'd a thunk

there are never any guarantees with human behavior in this life. It's a human thing. So what's the diff? I guess it's what one believes happens after the party's over.

[No Elephants]

65. No Christtians in the OT, but Christians accept that the OT is part of the Bible.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

24. Two words:

Spanish Inquisition.....................

[humblebum]

36. Two words:

Killing Fields.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

37. Really?

And you think the killing fields were the results of people not bowing down to the right god?

[humblebum]

39. The Khmer Rouge weren't bowing to any god. They were avowed

atheists in their orientation. Nothing religious about them.

[Mike Daniels]

59. God's followers in the Old Testament were Jewish/Hebrew

Until Christ came into being it was not possible to be a Christian.

[Stellabella]

72. So? It was still 'God' calling the shots.

And the Old Testament has been used since it was written to defend everything from slavery to mass murder.

[No Elephants]

63. Humblebum's post was a perfectly accurate response to that post.

[Stellabella]

73. It was not.

Methinks thou dost protest too much.

Hit a nerve?

[spoony]

17. Your post is right, your subject line is bullshit

Christians commit murder and all sorts of other crimes, that doesn't mean it's acceptable to Christianity. No more than if a Democrat commits murder and a claim is made that that's acceptable in the Democratic Party.

[Bill McBlueState]

54. good analogy

I like the comparison of Christianity to a political party.

[winyanstaz]

5. These people are domestic terrorists and need to be arrested..

and they can start with the talking heads that advocate murder.
If you or I ran around saying we needed to murder Christians, all hell would break lose and yet many of them think they can run around advocating murder of who ever doesn't obey their religious beliefs.
If it isn't terrorism to murder people like the good dr..what is?
Not all Christians are evil like this..they need to stand up to the crazies in their midsts and put a stop to this hate now.

[myrna minx]

6. K&R n/t

[Ozymanithrax]

7. The rules for most Calvinists...

Believe int he Lord Jesus Christ as your lord and savior follwoed by baptism and you are in.

After that,they can kill people till the cows come home and they still qualify on side of teh grave.

[JI7]

8. some Christians are terrorists

[Reterr]

10. He is a courageous man.eom

[defendandprotect]

13. Dr. Leroy Carhart . . . phenomenal bravery - courage--!!!

And the anti-abortion "Christians" who have worked to this end are as guilty

as the shooter.

And that includes, of course, the notorious Randall Terry telling these fanatics

"not to give an inch" -- not to change their rhetoric.

They now this "abortion is murder" and doctors who do abortions are "murderers"

will influence the weak minded to do their dirty work for them.

[defendandprotect]

14. Dr. Leroy Carhart . . . phenomenal bravery - courage--!!!

And the anti-abortion "Christians" who have worked to this end are as guilty

as the shooter.

And that includes, of course, the notorious Randall Terry telling these fanatics

"not to give an inch" -- not to change their rhetoric.

They now this "abortion is murder" and doctors who do abortions are "murderers"

will influence the weak minded to do their dirty work for them.

[murielm99]

20. Controversial?

How was Dr. Tiller controversial?

There is nothing controversial about providing a critical service to women who may die without it.

The haters and those who incite them to hatred and murder are controversial, not those who provide a critical, lifesaving service.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

30. A critical, LEGAL medical service ........

That's the part that keeps not being mentioned, when it should be leading every damn discussion of Dr. Tiller's murder.

He was operating completely within the law.

Too bad people who didn't like it created an atmosphere which nurtured the monster who murdered him. Would they call what he did in that church yesterday "civil disobedience," I wonder?

Would they dare?

[AzDar]

29. Bravo! and be safe, Dr. Carhart. Don't let these terrorist fucks win.

:applause:

[progressoid]

31. A long time ago, I met a couple of Carhart's foes.

They seemed nice at first but the more they talked, you could sense the anger and hate boiling inside them.

Creepy people.

[New Dawn]

42. K&R

[InfiniteThoughts]

43. Operation Rescue was the biggest insult to Jesus by right wing nuts...

Seriously, look at their record:

* Involved in burning Quran (Islamic holy text)
* Protest against Wal-Mart for typing up with National Gay and Lesbian Chamber of Commerce (NGLCC)
* Shouting down a Hindu Priest as he was offering prayers in the US Senate floor.

On the last act, i am amused that they find Hindu idol worship as Idolatry while their worship of Jesus isn't ... very funny!

So, can the MSM stop refering to Operation Rescue as a pro-life movement. They are radical idiots whose place in civilization is the 11th century (probably!). My mind flashed to how Jesus would react to their action - with utter disgust & shame (created in his name!)

[JNelson6563]

47. I dunno, killing and terrorizing is biblical

In fact, seems to me the bible is one of the first how-to books on all things horrible.

[northernsoul]

69. The terms are not mutually exclusive. n/t.

[livefreest]

80. murders are not christian? tell that to the inquisitors of the christian far-right

[Wednesdays]

81. K&R

:kick:

[immoderate]

82. I object to the term "Christian" being used for the term "virtuous."

It's an insult to other religions and the non-religious.

--imm

[donco6]

92. When I see it, I run the other way.

Christian fish on ads, business cards, etc. always leads to the circular file for me. I'll never deal with another.

[MasonJar]

88. Anyone living a life which follows Christ's dictates "Do unto others, what you would

have them to you" and the Beatitudes will join any others, Christians, Muslims, Jewish, Buddhists, agnostics, atheists, any etcs. in whatever Paradise there may be or I have no interest in being there.