Father Alberto Cutié's fall from grace rekindles debate over celibacy

[AlphaCentauri]

Source: sun sentinel

His parish was in the heart of South Beach, he socialized with celebrities, and his books and television appearances made him one of the nation's most prominent Catholics, especially among Latinos.

Even his detractors -- if he had any -- would agree he is blessed with matinee-idol looks.

So did any of those factors contribute to the reckless behavior with a woman on a beach that brought down the Rev. Alberto Cutié this week?

That question, and the issue of clergy celibacy, was among many posed in the wake of the scandal triggered by a Mexican magazine's publication of 25 photos of Father Alberto, as he is called, in the throes of rapture more carnal than spiritual.


Read more: http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/local/breakingnews/slf-priest-scandal-bn050609,0,5665100.story

---

Cutie's views on Cuba

If you could preach to Fidel and Raul Castro, what gospel reading would you choose?

One of my favorite readings is when Jesus says that, at the end of time, God will separate the sheep from the goats. It's a judgment gospel. They ask Jesus, when did we see you naked and clothe you, when did we see you hungry and feed you, when did we see you in prison and visit you? And Jesus says, when you did it for the least of these you did it for me. It's Matthew 25: 31-46. The Castro brothers need to ask themselves: What did they do with the hunger of the Cuban people? What did they do with the imprisoned? What did they do with the sick? That's the gospel I would share with them.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/04/24/AR2009042402244.html?hpid=opinionsbox1

[xchrom]

1. well -- he IS a cutie.

but i never thought of getting laid as a fall from grace.

unless....

[Hepburn]

2. Well, yeah....

...after all he was a priest! :evilgrin:

[AlphaCentauri]

4. 7th: Thou shalt not commit adultery.

He was marriage to the church
:shrug:

[Tangerine LaBamba]

6. That one doesn't work.......................

Priests aren't "married to the Church." You're thinking of nuns, who are sometimes known as "brides of Christ."

In fact, priests are bound by the vows of celibacy and chastity. Some take another vow of poverty; some don't.

[AlphaCentauri]

9. So he has not sin? n/t

[Tangerine LaBamba]

12. By having sex with a woman, yes, he has sinned,

because he's broken his vows of celibacy and chastity.......................

[Dappleganger]

28. But that's by the Church's made-up rules

Those are not from the Bible.

[No Elephants]

33. Depends on your interpretation. Paul said people should be celibate, if they

could possibly be celibate, though it was better to 'marry' "than to burn." To some, there is no room in there for sex outside marriage. On the other hand, only heaven knows what "marry" meant in the Middle East 2000 years ago or what that word may have been in the original Greek, before the texts got, shall we say, prepared, for consumption by the general public.

[Arugula Latte]

38. But the Bible was made up by humans.

It's all silliness and mythology.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

45. Actually, no, it's a violation of a Commandment ...

The Commandment about "bearing false witness" is about lying.

When they break their vows, they are deemed to have lied.

There. We got a Commandment in there. Feel better?

(This is why organized religion is such rich ground for comedy - it's all such a joke.)

[Zhade]

57. Since "sin" is a human fabrication, just like gods and holy books - no.

NT!

[No Elephants]

31. Don't priests wear wedding rings, too? And aren't celibacy and chastity the same thing? Nuns also

take vows: poverty, chastity and obedience.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

47. No, priests don't wear wedding rings, but, yes,

some nuns do. Not all.

Nuns have to take those three vows. Priests, depending on which order they join, may take only two - poverty is optional within some orders.

No, celibacy and chastity are not the same thing. Check your dictionary..........

[AlphaCentauri]

49. some catholics say many priest use wedding rings

http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=254

[Tangerine LaBamba]

50. Well, if you accept postings on a message board

as persuasive authority - I don't, not even here at DU - then I guess you've got your answer.

Me, I was raised Roman Catholic, and educated - right through law school - by Jesuits. I know what I know.............

[AlphaCentauri]

60. I'm a catholic also

I have never study the Code of Canon Law

[Mrs. Overall]

65. Everything you say in this thread is correct about the vows and the distinctions

you draw between priests' vows (diocesan vs. religious order) and the vows taken by nuns (and the wearing of rings).

The Jesuits taught you well! I say this with some "authority" as I am an ex-nun (Dominican).

[roguevalley]

53. its one thing to cheat in private but this was in your face and arrogant

celibacy is crap but it was the rule. he has no reason to whine about this if he is. he did it to himself.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

55. I disagree .............

Breaking your vows, whether in private or in public, is still breaking your vows.

"In your face and arrogant" is just another dimension.

They guy strikes me as a perfect asshole. No wonder he's a priest .......................

[roguevalley]

56. You are right about the vows. No one can not understand what it

means to take them. I agree totally. His actions are so out there and in your face that its shocking. How could he believe he wouldn't get caught?

[Sultana]

59. Eww, but Christ is our brother

INCEST! :o


:D

[No Elephants]

29. Did you ever believe that grace depended upon your celibacy, though?

[Dappleganger]

43. Nope

That's why it's such a joke.

[xchrom]

54. none of the catholic priests i dated in college thought that.

they were damn good liberal priests -- who wanted to serve god and god's people.

[saigon68]

63. His boss is sort of upset

[BlooInBloo]

3. Why anybody is surprised about a priest lying, etc. is beyond me.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

5. First, he's a man .......

After that, it's all pretend, really, no matter how sincere the promises...................

[Hardrada]

7. Huh! I resemble that!

I resent the allegation and I deny the alligatuh. Your above notation that some priests take vows of poverty is true. I remember a monsignor who had to borrow summer suits to go on a Caribbean cruise.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

11. Some priests take - HEY, CALM DOWN! -

vows of "poverty, chastity, and obedience."

Others, most often diocesan priests, take vows only of "chastity and obedience."

One of those nifty little-known Roman Catholic facts you learn when you're educated - and completely adopted - by Jesuts...............

[Hardrada]

14. I spent a year at a Lutheran Seminary and the only thing we

could have vowed was "poverty." O not the guys from Texas and California who used to cash big checks in the bookstore where I worked. The reason I had little $$$ was because I blew my money on books and Mosel wine.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

17. You big silly ...........

Wasting your funds on books. Think of all the weed you could have bought. And then, chances were awfully good that you'd have had more than your share of religious experiences.

No, I'm just kidding you. The abject hypocrisy of the disparity in vows that Roman Catholic priests take is laughable. I mean, do you get closer to God by having a nice private income or not? The priests I knew who'd taken the poverty vow were nice men, but the biggest mooches you ever met in your life. They loved the good life, but someone else always had to pick up the tab.

Did you watch "The Sopranos"? There was an episode when Carmella confront Father Phil, one of the aforementioned mooches, about how well he enjoys the fruits of Tony Soprano's labors, at the same time decrying his sinful way of life. A very good one ................

[Hardrada]

22. I swear, I am going to have to buy or rent that entire series.

I came in late to that show and missed half the action...and that confrontation scene you mention as well! I am intrigued for sure.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

23. Yes, you should join netflix, if only

to watch the series in order.

A&E runs episodes twice daily, and on Sunday mornings and Sunday night. Or, they used to.

It's beyond anything you've ever seen on TV. Or even in the movies or the theater. It's simply brilliant, the work of geniuses. I find myself watching episodes over and over, to the point that I know the dialogue, and I never get enough of it.

And I'm someone who rarely re-reads a book ..

[Hardrada]

25. Thanks. I'll give that a try. Incidentally I find myself repeating

Sopranos dialogue from the shows I have watched. For instance, there was this scene where Uncle Jr. ruins Carmela's surprise birthday party by calling her dad and mentioning that he can't make it to the "surprise party" and saying ,"At our age, waking up every day is a surprise."
And Carmela saying re: Uncle Jr., "That man, that awful fucking man." I guess about everyone in that series got good lines every so often!

[No Elephants]

37. My roommate apologized for not being able to make it to my bridal shower. Problem was, that

was right after she got the invitation, so that kind of ruined the surprise.

[Hardrada]

62. Yikes. That was too bad. Hope you could do a surprised look

anyway.

[No Elephants]

36. A vow of poverty does not mean that you cannot have income, only that you cannot keep it. I

know nuns who work and nuns who have trust fund income. They just donate all of it, keeping in their own names only enough to pay any income tax they will owe. And, in reality, the Church controls that account, too. Some of the nuns, oblates, are allowed to keep their own income--in theory, anyway.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

48. It's quite different for priests

who don't take a vow of poverty. Their income is all their own, and they are free to do with it as they see fit.

It's shocking, right? Gender discrimination within an organization as democratically organized as the Roman Catholic Church...........

[dflprincess]

8. I imagine the hierarchy will be so relieved that this priest

broke his vows with an apparently consenting, adult female that they will give him a promotion.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

13. You're so right -

I just put a documentary called "Twist of Faith" into my netflix queue:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twist_of_Faith

[AlphaCentauri]

15. yeah, but they lost another priest

[Baby Snooks]

19. One less mouth to feed....

Sorry couldn't resist...

[AlphaCentauri]

32. LOL not all priest are poor specially those on the right wing side of the church

[Tangerine LaBamba]

46. They're probably the priests

who chose not to take the vow of poverty.

[No Elephants]

34. All humans lie and a priest is human.

[mth44sc]

10. It might rekindle a debate somewhere

but that place won't be in the Catholic Church...

[AlphaCentauri]

16. most fundamentalist churches will have party over this

[CatholicEdHead]

18. Nope, not for a while with the current Vatican

in that it is completely off the table for the moment. Remember mandatory celibacy and priests unable to get married goes back to property rights of the 1100's when it was put in place. We are beyond the feudal property rights area but this hangs on. Anyone outside Vatican City want to make it optional again.

[ShockediSay]

20. A touch of levity - a priest and a rabbi, good friends, were sitting on a park bench

the priest asked the rabbi if he ever broke his vows

the rabbi said yes, once I had a ham sandwich

then the rabbi asked the priest if he ever broke his vows

the priest said yes, once I had a woman

the two were silent for a while then the rabbi said

beats a ham sandwich, doesn't it?

[Tangerine LaBamba]

24. Excellent!!

That reminds me (off subject, but ........) of the discussion the priest, the minister, and the rabbi were having.

When does life begin?

The priest said, "Life begins at the moment of conception."

The minister said, "Life begins at the moment of viability."

The rabbi said, "Life begins when the kids leave for college and the dog dies."

[hedgehog]

21. Priests that want to get married and live a faithful relationship get tossed.

Priests that fool around and then drop their paramours are allowed to stay.

[AngryOldDem]

26. Maybe God IS sending a message. Is the Church listening?

Sometimes that message is subtle, sometimes it's with the force of a 2x4. There is no point to celebacy. It's an archaic practice. Maybe the issue will be revisited sometime in the next, oh --- 500 years. There is nothing "holy" or "Biblical" about this.

This man sounds like he is a wonderful priest. I expect he'll be forced out and laicized, probably much more rapidly than his colleagues who were involved with kids.

And the Church will still whine and bitch that it can't find qualified men to serve.

[UTUSN]

27. Worthless without the pics. So HERE are the pics!1

Or, if the links don't work, Google "TVnotas Alberto". I fail to see why this wingnut's fleshiness should trigger a debate about "celibacy in the Catholic church" when the pederast priests didn't. On Spanish t.v. yesterday afternoon the prevailing sentiment was that he was "just normal," that he should be forgiven, that the Church should allow priests to marry. All because his clientele were the wingnut Cuban exile stars of Univision. Oh, and because of his looks.

He wasn't thinking much about forgiveness when his bare foot was erect in the air on the beach.


http://www.inewscatcher.com/2009/05/padre-alberto-cutie-photos-tv-notas.html
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_S3XEraQZjGk/SgGp89YrhII/AAAAAAAAF6Y/n_SE2kAHy8I/s400/padre+alberto+cutie+hurtado+photos+fotos+tv+notas+miami+3.PNG

[AlphaCentauri]

30. Did you notice he questions Fidel Castro on Medical Care

Even if castro provided his people with universal health care Cutie ask:

"What did they do with the sick?"

[UTUSN]

41. Umm, yes? He's a member of the wingnut Cuban Exile community so it wouldn't be unusual for him to

question Fidel on whatever grounds.

But as much as I have attacked Fidel and Hugito in this very forum, I've got to say I'm to THE LEFT of the first couple of generations of the Cuban Exiles, whom I regard as wingnut oppressors when they were in charge. They are CIA-Poppy/Shrub/Jeb lovers.

Gawsh, I sound like one of the Huguito groupies here.

[JI7]

58. what a hypocrite

[nichomachus]

35. But that homophobic gas bag Bill Donohue was on the TV defending this guy

Sort of a "What the heck. Guys will be guys" defense.

A church that can't keep its own house in order should just shut the fuck up about other people's lives.

[No Elephants]

39. Do you know of many organizations that keep their houses in perfect order? I sure don't. Heck, the

firm that I worked in had six partners and it was a mess. Didn't last 2000 years, either.

[Psephos]

44. good point n/t

[nichomachus]

51. No, but then they have right to moralize about other people either

It's all in the bible -- cast the beam out of your eye before you complain about the speck in the other guy's eye. Don't these people read their own freaking book?

[nichomachus]

52. One of the reasons they lasted so long was that they murdered anyone who disagreed

Kind of like the Mafia -- that's lasted a long time too

[Arugula Latte]

40. No kidding. Which basically means that they should all STFU.

I wish people would stop supporting these ridiculous institutions.

[Blue_Tires]

42. i was prepared to feel a small bit of sympathy for him

but after reading those Cuba comments, fuck him...

[UTUSN]

61. Best Post of the Thread (BPT). Here's what it's all about:

As it ALWAYS is, the issue is HYPOCRISY, not about gender politics. Let's see, his "apology" part was about SIX words ("who may be hurt or saddened by my actions"). The rest of it was about how "normal" it is to be normally lustful.

http://search.live.com/news/search?q=Padre+Alberto&FORM=EPRE

Here's what it's all about: His looks::

*************QUOTE*********

http://www.padrealberto.net/
STATEMENT FROM FATHER ALBERT CUTIE

Before God - full of love and mercy - I ask for the forgiveness of those who may be hurt or saddened by my actions. Since I entered the seminary at the age of 18, the priesthood has brought me great joy. The commitment that I made to serve God will reamin intact. I am grateful for the love and support I have received today from so many in our community, especially my parishioners and the supporters of the radio stations who have demonstrated great compassion and understanding toward me as a human being. I ask for your continued prayers and support.

Father Albert Cutie





http://www.nationalledger.com/ledgerpop/article_272625941.shtml

Bikini Scandal (Photos, Video) Padre Alberto Cutie and Woman on Beach
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

By Lynn Edwards
May 7, 2009


Cuban American Catholic Father Alberto Cutie, a popular latin TV show host has been spotted on a beach with a bikini clad woman! Some are outraged while others are asking for understanding. Father cutie is asking for forgiveness and the man that is Sometimes called "Father Oprah" has been stripped of his duties at St. Francis De Sales Church in Miami Beach, Florida.

Padre Alberto Cutie

According to Bitten and Bound an "8-page spread will appear on Thursday in TVnotas. The two dozen photos, taken over a three day period, show the couple having a romantic interlude on the beach. The paparazzi have been shopping the photos around for the past six weeks, with an asking price of six figures for the salacious pics."


***


They have some of the photos and video here. According to the report, "Cutie attracted great fame with his television debut in 1999 as the host of Padre Alberto, a daily talk show televised on the Telemundo. He published a self-help book Real Life, Real Love in January 2006. It was considered a bestseller in the Spanish language market."

According to CNN, Cutie apologized in an online statement Tuesday that read, “I ask the forgiveness of those who may be hurt or saddened by my actions. The commitment I made to serve God will remain intact. I am grateful for the love and support I have received from so many in the community.”

*********UNQUOTE*************

[Vinca]

64. Sounds like the "Thorn Birds."

[yellowcanine]

66. What,, "self abuse" is not good enough for the padre?

[IndianaGreen]

67. Abusing children is okay, wanting to marry the woman you love is bad

No wonder the Roman Church is so frakked up!

The Catholic Church has married priests already: widowers that become ordained later in life.

A Priest in Love: Photos Rock Miami Beach Church

'Padre Oprah' Doesn't Want to Give up Either Woman or Church

By DAN HARRIS
MIAMI, May 10, 2009

Father Alberto Cutie, known as "Padre Oprah," the nationally known Spanish language television host, advice columnist and bestselling author of the book "Real Life, Real Love," is creating quite a stir as he appears to be getting a dose of real love himself.

A Mexican magazine ran pictures of Father Cutie cuddling with a woman on a Florida beach and kissing her at a bar.

In an interview with the Spanish language network Univision, Father Cutie said that despite the scandal the photos have created, he doesn't want to give up either his collar or the woman he loves.

He told Univision, he loves the woman and has liked her since he met her.

After the photos appeared, the Archdiocese of Miami immediately removed him from his duties as a priest at St. Frances de Sales church in Miami Beach.

Today his parish held its first Sunday mass without him. One parishioner said that the real reason he came to the services was to support a brother in faith, a community leader and a person who has asked the community for its help and prayers.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=7552679&page=1

[imdjh]

69. Next stop- Episcopal Diocese of Miami

Lots of Episcopal priests used to be Catholics. Unfortunately, being butt kicked out of the Catholic church doesn't always make them more liberal.

[IndianaGreen]

70. I am surprised that there aren't more Catholics joining the Episcopal Church

They are English Catholics and they don't have the baggage of the Vatican to dump on people, plus they have women priests.

[imdjh]

72. I always love it when the British comics take a shot at the COE

Something like, "A new study out of Cambridge reveals that some 60% of Anglican bishops admit to believing in God." They have a more clever way of putting it, and the accent helps.

But seriously, the Episcopal Church USA has long been evolving to a civic church. The parishes which have left the church over the ordination of women, gay acceptance, and "liberalization" have furthered the mainline church's evolution.

[AlphaCentauri]

73. It's like saying "I didn't have sex with that woman"

The priest could just say I'm living because I love a woman but he was lying.

[imdjh]

68. Did you guys know that Scalia's son is a priest? I'm thinking a gay one.

"Oh girl, no she di-int"

[IndianaGreen]

71. No, I didn't know that.

I can't envision Scalia having enough empathy to love anyone, much less have children.