Supreme Court won't decide whether high school coach can bow head, kneel as players pray

[struggle4progress]

Source: Associated Press

WASHINGTON - ... In an order Monday, the justices are ending Marcus Borden's fight against the East Brunswick, N.J., school district's policy that forbids him and other staff members from joining in student-led prayer. The federal appeals court in Philadelphia sided with the district.

The high court declined to weigh in on whether Borden's desire to bow his head silently and "take a knee" with his football players violates the Constitution's prohibition on government endorsement of religion. Borden says such gestures are secular.

The school district says Borden, the East Brunswick coach since 1983, had a long history of leading prayers before he was ordered to stop. The district says the issue is whether its policy is constitutional, not Borden's actions.

The 3rd U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals in Philadelphia agreed that the school district policy is constitutional, but the judges differed on what exactly the coach should do when his team prays ...

http://www.startribune.com/nation/40534402.html?elr=KArks:DCiUMEaPc:UiD3aPc:_Yyc:aUU

Read more: http://www.startribune.com/nation/40534402.html?elr=KArks:DCiUMEaPc:UiD3aPc:_Yyc:aUU

[annabanana]

1. kneeling & bowing the head are only secular

if he's gardening.. or something that doesn't include prayer....

[TechBear_Seattle]

13. It amuses me how religious extremists demean their own religion

Prayer is secular. Displays of Nativity Scenes are non-religious. Mention of God in the Pledge of Allegiance and in government-administered oaths is just ceremonial deism. The Bible is literature, not Scripture.

:wtf:

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

22. or just a secular person being respectful.

That is not the case in this situation obviously.

David

[Mz Pip]

2. I always find these

public displays of piety prior to sporting events somewhat laughable. Does God really micromanage the universe to the point that he/she really cares who wins a high school game?

[wtmusic]

3. He sees you when you're sleeping, He knows when you're awake

but what if He is completely turned off by supplication? :shrug:

[nichomachus]

4. Prayer is just a way of telling God that his current plan for us is inadequate

[Soylent Brice]

6. sounds like a george carlin quote. lol

[Political Tiger]

5. I've never understood praying before football games

What's the point? Do they really think God gives a shit about football?

[nyc 4 Biden]

7. AFAIK athletes don't pray to win the game...

they pray to avoid injury and/or play their best. At least that is what I have experienced when I've played sports (football, soccer, baseball).

[Lost in CT]

8. Thanks I was going to point that out.

It is more of a lets all be careful out there kind of prayer.

I think it is silly not to allow the couch to join his players on this.

[struggle4progress]

10. For many years, he actually led the prayers. The district finally understood

that this was actually offensive to persons with different religions (some of whom complained) and a violation of church-state separation. The district then established a policy that drew a clear bright line. Borden resigned by email and cleared out his office a few hours before a game. He then consulted an attorney, who advised him he had no standing to sue unless employed by the district. The district rehired him, subject to the condition he not pray with his students. He then filed his suit

New Jersey coach's prayers provoke controversy.
Publication: Church & State
Date: Thursday, December 1 2005
http://www.articlearchives.com/education-training/education-systems-institutions/919364-1.html

An issue of fair pray
Disagreement sends coach, school to court
By Stan Grossfeld, Globe Staff | November 7, 2006
http://www.boston.com/sports/schools/football/articles/2006/11/07/an_issue_of_fair_pray/

[Lost in CT]

15. Well leading the prayers is very different then joining in. nt

[struggle4progress]

17. It might or might not be, depending on context.

[nichomachus]

12. If they want to pray, they can do it at home or in the locker room

But we all know that they do it on the field, so people will see them and they'll get brown-nose points with the lord.

This practice was actually forbidden quite explicitly by Jesus himself, which always makes me wonder why "bible-believing" Christians defy him and rub his nose in it.

Matthew 6: 5-8

5"And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by men. I tell you the truth, they have received their reward in full. 6But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you. 7And when you pray, do not keep on babbling like pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words. 8Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask him.

[zeemike]

24. i would have pointed that out but you beat me to it.

It is ironic that their supreme judge already ruled on that case 2000 years ago.
But the brown noes points they get are from men not the lord.

[ReliantJ]

9. They should continue to do this

but not force anyone else.

[No Elephants]

11. No praying aloud on govt property!! I dont care who leads it. The neo theos have run amok.

[Lost in CT]

16. Why? What is wrong with someone saying a prayer on government land? nt

[marshall]

18. One of the librarians at my university heard that some students were praying on the fourth floor

She ran like hell to get to the elevator and break the little impromptu prayer meeting up. The kids had been cramming for a big test and at the end of several hours of studying they each said a prayer before leaving. That librarian sure gave them a good talking to. I never saw them in the library again.

[Posteritatis]

19. That librarian was an idiot (nt)

[LostinVA]

27. And I bet the librarian did no such thing

[JerseygirlCT]

26. Now that's just plain silly

As silly as those who would make prayer a part of the school day.

Anyone can pray - anytime, anywhere it does not intrude on the school day.

You're simply displaying the other side of the same coin as those who would claim it's not praying unless they include everyone, willing or not.

The problem isn't people choosing to pray. The problem is making that choice for anyone but themselves and expecting everyone else to accommodate it.

[slackmaster]

14. "...or prohibiting the free exercise thereof..."

Seems to apply here.

[Posteritatis]

20. Folks are good at missing that phrase, aren't they? (nt)

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

23. We are only suppose to use that when it goes our way, get with the program.

[Nye Bevan]

21. He could get away with it by pretending to be barfing (nt)

[Vinca]

25. What if the other team is also a bunch of religious zealots?

How does God decide who to let win?:rofl:

[LeFleur1]

28. People can Pray Anywhere, Anytime

They can do it silently, but of course, how would the crowd in the stadium know just how religious they are, and how favored they are in God's eyes if they did that.

These people aren't interested in just praying. They want to do it in front of a packed house.
Exhibitionists.

In wars, the religious on the other side are praying just as hard to win the war as the ones on your side. I guess God has to say, "Hmmmm" and decide which ones should be devastated, wounded, killed, blinded, have their brains rattled and their children dead.

[kskiska]

29. Does God really care

who wins a football game?