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ozymandius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-20-09 05:35 AM
Original message
STOCK MARKET WATCH, Tuesday January 20
Source: du

STOCK MARKET WATCH, Tuesday January 20, 2009

DAYS REMAINING UNTIL BUSH IS GONE = :woohoo:

AT THE CLOSING BELL WHEN BUSH TOOK OFFICE on January 22, 2001
Dow - 10,578.24
Nasdaq - 2,757.91
S&P 500 - 1,342.90
Oil - $27.69/bbl
Gold - $266.70/oz.
$1 USD = EUR 1.06678
$1 USD = JPY 116.6200

In recognition of those who predicted the Dow's precipitous return on Bush values (9/29/08): JuneBourder and AnneD

AT THE CLOSING BELL ON January 16, 2009

Dow... 8,281.22 +68.73 (+0.83%)
Nasdaq... 1,529.33 +17.49 (+1.16%)
S&P 500... 850.12 +6.38 (+0.76%)
Gold future... 839.90 +32.60 (+3.88%)
30-Year Bond 2.89% +0.03 (+1.05%)
10-Yr Bond... 2.30% +0.10 (+4.68%)




U.S. FUTURES & MARKETS INDICATORS
NASDAQ FUTURES..............................................S&P FUTURES


Market Conditions During Trading Hours





GOLD,EURO, YEN, Loonie and Silver












Read more: du
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ozymandius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-20-09 05:39 AM
Response to Original message
1. Happy Bush Begone Day everyone!
:toast: :bounce: :woohoo:
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depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-20-09 05:50 AM
Response to Reply #1
6. Tomorrow = clean up on aisle 3
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ozymandius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-20-09 06:10 AM
Response to Reply #6
8. Egads! what a mess.
from The Onion

Black Man Given Nation's Worst Job

As part of his duties, the black man will have to spend four to eight years cleaning up the messes other people left behind.
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radfringe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-20-09 06:12 AM
Response to Reply #6
10. more like this...
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ozymandius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-20-09 06:17 AM
Response to Reply #10
12. HA!
Excellent rad!
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Roland99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-20-09 07:34 AM
Response to Reply #1
25. WOOOOOO HOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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CGrantt57 Donating Member (245 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-20-09 07:44 AM
Response to Reply #1
27. I was hoping...
that the white house door would indeed smack him in the ass on the way out, but then, I really don't want to cause the man brain damage.

Regards,

mikey
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Vilis Veritas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-20-09 08:13 AM
Response to Reply #27
37. I wouldn't worry about damaging what he does not have...nt
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JNelson6563 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-20-09 07:52 AM
Response to Reply #1
29. It's finally here!
That slow countdown we've done on the stock thread all along, finally the number is a big fat goose-egg! I am so thrilled!

Julie
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Maeve Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-20-09 07:55 AM
Response to Reply #1
31. I don't know whether to laugh, cry or sing
I expect I'll do all by the end of the day (and I woke up singing!). I put the flag up as soon as it got light and I've got a bottle of champagne to pop with Hubby tonight. Feel like it's been 40 years in the desert...
:party: :toast: :bounce: :grouphug: :fistbump: :woohoo: :applause: :patriot: :kick: :dem: :party:
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kickysnana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-20-09 09:49 AM
Response to Reply #31
64. Singing here. "Ding dong the Witch is Dead!" n/t
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DoBotherMe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-20-09 11:03 AM
Response to Reply #31
75. It's as if we've been occupied
and DU is the French Resistance. I've felt like I was under water for 8 long years. Happy Day! Dana ; )
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AnneD Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-20-09 09:10 AM
Response to Reply #1
50. I swear I heard strains of....
the Hallelujah Chorus when I woke up this morning. Maybe I have been so use to looking at the down side I can't see it any other way.

Today we finally get to look at the books-at least those that haven't been baked to a dark golden crisp. Oh boy:eyes:

Today, we get back the village idiot we tried to toss out. The only good thing is he gets to haunt Dallas and will blend right in.

I am looking foreword to the opening credits at SWT tomorrow. I hope we can keep Bush's record and start a new ticker for Obama. Talk about low expectations. I don't expect much from him yet-just aim for the right direction. It's going to take a while to clean this up.
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ozymandius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-20-09 05:41 AM
Response to Original message
2. Market WrapUp
Fair Retails
BY BRIAN PRETTI

The fact that the December retail sales report this week was bad was not exactly a revelation from the heavens by any means. But I think the issue takes on larger meaning in terms of the ongoing battle of trying to decipher what the financial markets have and have not discounted in price at any time. A battle that’s not about to end any time soon. As I’ve written about on my subscriber site, the drop in the equity averages over the past year plus are very much on par with the death defying drop in equities during the mid-1970’s, in coincidence with what was a very deep recession at that time. As such, I’ve been counseling folks that it seems a good bet the equity markets have already discounted a deep recession. Personally, I'm now using economic and market stat markers of the mid-1970’s and early 1980’s recessions (the deepest post Depression US recessions) to benchmark against our current circumstances. The questions that remain to be answered in the current cycle are magnitude and duration of economic contraction. These are the key issues, if you ask me, against which we can ultimately judge what the markets have or have not discounted in price.

In conjunction with this analysis that we will continue walking through for some time to come, the other major issue of importance to investment decision making will be the character of the deleveraging cycle that clearly has begun. In short, it does not take a rocket scientist to know that deleveraging in the financial sector is more than well underway. But actual deleveraging in the household and non-financial corporate sectors is in its infancy. Given my personal belief that the prior credit cycle was massively important in determining corporate earnings outcomes, asset price inflation trends, etc. over the prior three to four decades, monitoring the reality and specifics of the now begun multi-sector (financial, household, and non-financial corporate) deleveraging cycle takes on very meaningful importance. Again, it’s going to be a matter of magnitude, duration and breadth of sector deleveraging that will impact investment outcomes in the here and now.

....

In looking at the retail report, I simply hope to give you a little insight into our thought process. Right to the point, the headline numbers looked terrible. But the real eye-opener is the historical year over year rate of change in headline retail sales. Get the picture?

-see chart with illustration of a cliff-

http://www.financialsense.com/Market/wrapup.htm
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Demeter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-20-09 07:03 AM
Response to Reply #2
19. Impressive Graphs and Scary Ideas in That Column
My own, gut-based, purely irrational guess is that we are in for 5 years of deflation before things turn around, and this counts as halfway through Year 1. And yes, households will delever, otherwise, they go bankrupt.

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ozymandius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-20-09 05:42 AM
Response to Original message
3. no goobermental reports today n/t
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ozymandius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-20-09 05:47 AM
Response to Original message
4. Oil falls below $34 ahead of Feb contract expiry
SINGAPORE – Oil prices fell below $34 a barrel Tuesday in Asia as traders sold the expiring front-month Nymex contract due to a lack of space at a key U.S. storage facility.

Light, sweet crude for February delivery was down 65 cents at $33.90 a barrel by late afternoon in Singapore in electronic trading on the New York Mercantile Exchange. The contract, which expires on Tuesday, fell $1.96 overnight to settle at $34.55.

The February contract has fallen about a third in two weeks, in part because burgeoning supplies in Cushing, Oklahoma, the delivery point for the Nymex contract, have left traders with little space to store crude, forcing them to sell.

....

Investors will also be eyeing the inauguration of President-elect Barack Obama on Tuesday for any hints regarding the government's economic and energy policies.

In other Nymex trading, gasoline futures fell to $1.12 a gallon. Heating oil dropped to $1.41 a gallon while natural gas for February delivery slid to $4.69 per 1,000 cubic feet.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/oil_prices
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Wednesdays Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-20-09 07:55 AM
Response to Reply #4
30. Huh
"The February contract has fallen about a third in two weeks, in part because burgeoning supplies in Cushing, Oklahoma, the delivery point for the Nymex contract, have left traders with little space to store crude, forcing them to sell."

I'm less than 50 miles from Cushing, and yet gas prices have been rising steadily the last three weeks or so. Go figure.
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Lucky Luciano Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-20-09 08:40 AM
Response to Reply #30
42. Gasoline got too cheap relative to the price of oil
a few weeks ago. The price of gasoline did get down to 82 cents per gallon (on the NYMEX - this does not include retail markups and taxes) around Christmas day. During this time, crack spreads which measure the margins for refiners were actually negative making them less interested in making gasoline. Refining margins have imrpoved dramatically, so I would expect refiners to produce more gasoline and prices should come down if oil also stays lower. Refiners have been getting crushed for the last year due to bad margins. See the stocks of Valero (VLO) and Tesoro (TSO) for examples - they even got smoked during the crazy rise in oil prices.

Gasoline (first) and oil second) Prices:

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Roland99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-20-09 09:18 AM
Response to Reply #42
54. Thanks for the charts. Interesting thing about the prices now...
Here in Louisville, retail would always (for years) fluctuate between 40-60 cents per gal over wholesale. at least until last spring. Then they shot to 80-90 cents margin. Over summer, at the peak, we were $1.00-1.20 over wholesale. A month or so ago, we got back to a 50-60 cent range but the last few weeks they've gone back to the 80 cent/gal margin.
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ozymandius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-20-09 05:49 AM
Response to Original message
5. Accountant: Fla. money manager owed $50 million
SARASOTA, Fla. – Around the same time he mysteriously vanished, hedge fund manager Arthur G. Nadel owed a $50 million payout to some of the investors who had entrusted their life savings to him, an accountant said Monday.

Instead, they learned their money was gone — and now they're left asking if it was all a bad investment, or if they were scammed.

The search for Nadel entered its sixth day Monday as more investors contacted authorities with concerns their savings, and Nadel, were gone forever. Nadel's green Subaru was found in a Sarasota airport parking lot on Jan. 15, and he left his family a note in which he appeared to be "very distraught," said Lt. Chuck Lesaltato of the Sarasota County Sheriff's office.

Nadel, 75, was expected to deliver a $50 million redemption that day to investors in the six hedge funds he managed, said Michael Zucker, an internal accountant for Scoop Management Inc., where Nadel traded. Nothing in documents indicated the funds weren't turning a profit, he said.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090119/ap_on_bi_ge/missing_money_manager
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Tansy_Gold Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-20-09 09:13 AM
Response to Reply #5
51. I dunno about this. Someone help me out.
Years and years and years ago it seems to me I heard a saying. You know, one of those old ancient aphorisms that we laugh about our grandparents and parents saying. Stupid things most of 'em. Don't have any application or relevance in today's world.

But it was something about a basket and eggs. . . . . . .






Tansy Gold
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DemReadingDU Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-20-09 09:15 AM
Response to Reply #51
52. Don't put all your eggs in one basket

:hi:
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Tansy_Gold Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-20-09 09:33 AM
Response to Reply #52
58. ha ha ha
remind never me forget the :sarcasm: thingy!



:hi:
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Hugin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-20-09 09:18 AM
Response to Reply #51
55. PSA: "Don't keep all of your iTunes on one Hard Drive."
There, I've updated the expression for the Millennials.
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ozymandius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-20-09 06:02 AM
Response to Original message
7. Why banks still teeter, after $232 billion in aid
New York – The troubled banking system continues to need help from Uncle Sam, even after a recent infusion of $232 billion, compliments of the US Treasury.

The main reason banks will likely get another taxpayer assist of, say, $200 billion: Their own balance sheets remain fragile, and almost no one else will give them new capital.

....

The banks' continued need for capital resonated in Washington last week, with the Senate deciding it would not block the release of $350 billion more for the Troubled Asset Relief Program, even though many questions have been raised about how wisely the US Treasury used the first $350 billion in TARP funds that Congress authorized. The House is expected to take up the matter this week, but any vote would be symbolic because it takes both houses of Congress to block dispersal of the funds.

The banks remain in such precarious positions, some analysts worry, that even those additional billions may not be enough to put them on firm footing. "My guess is there will be multiple TARPs before this thing is over," says Doug Roberts, director of research at Channel Capital Research in Shrewsbury, N.J. "The other alternative is the insolvency of the banking system."*

....

In the past, banks were able to take losses and keep functioning without government aid. But bankers, normally conservative, took such great risk in the mortgage markets that most banks do not have sufficient reserves going into the recession...

http://news.yahoo.com/s/csm/20090120/ts_csm/afragile



*The banks are already insolvent if you apply the most basic, unequivocal definition of insolvency. I argue that our economic sages have not yet wrapped their heads around this idea. It is absolute folly to continue shoveling money at these banks because they are no longer viable in their current configurations. They should be nationalized. Then the banks ought to be broken apart with their independently viable components spun off as private companies - with taxpayers as recipients of interest.

Bank shareholders and bond holders would be wiped out with this idea. So be it. Banking investors should not be coddled as though they are delicate, rare and, otherwise, special creatures while investors in other sectors are left fending for themselves. All things being equal.
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Demeter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-20-09 07:09 AM
Response to Reply #7
20.  London Banker: "The market has failed, and officialdom is perpetuating that failure." By Mike Whitn
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article21486.htm


December 18, 2008 "Information Clearinghouse" --- Ever since the two Bear Stearns hedge funds defaulted 17 months ago triggering a global financial crisis, the Federal Reserve has been busy putting out one fire after another. Fed chief Ben Bernanke has slashed interest rates to .25 percent, handed out billions in emergency funding to teetering insurance companies and mortgage lenders, and provided $8.3 trillion in loan guarantees to keep the financial system from collapsing. Unfortunately, nothing the Fed has done has either stabilized the markets or stopped the contagion from spreading to the broader economy where consumer spending has fallen sharply, unemployment has skyrocketed, manufacturing has slipped to a 30 year low, and housing prices have plummeted. Bernanke, the Princeton academic who is an expert on the Great Depression, is limited in his understanding of the crisis by his "monetarist" bias. He believes that the only way to fight credit contraction is by flooding the financial system with liquidity ("quantitative easing"). But this remedy focuses more on reducing the symptoms rather than curing the disease. Christopher Wood sums it up in an article in the Wall Street Journal article "The Fed is Out of Ammunition":

"The origins of the modern conventional wisdom lies in the simplistic monetarist interpretation of the Great Depression popularized by Milton Friedman and taught to generations of economics students ever since. This argued that the Great Depression could have been avoided if the Federal Reserve had been more proactive about printing money. Yet the Japanese experience of the 1990s -- persistent deflationary malaise unresponsive to near zero-percent interest rates -- shows that it is not so easy to inflate one's way out of a debt bust."

Bernanke's strategy may provide some temporary relief, but it won't fix the underlying problems. The debts will have to be brought forward and written off, insolvent institutions will have to be shut down, indictments will have to be served to those who defrauded investors, and transparency will have to be reestablished. Bernanke and his colleagues at the US Treasury believe they can bypass these confidence-building measures by simply opening the liquidity-valves and waiting for the economy to come charging back to life, but it won't work. Liquidity is not credibility and it's the lack of credibility that has investors racing for the exits....


The problem isn't just money either, but how quickly the money is turned over. The Fed has increased the money supply at an unprecedented pace and expanded its balance sheet to $2.25 trillion, but velocity is down. Activity in the secondary markets has slowed to a crawl. Wall Street is leading the economy into recession. In 2005 through 2007, nearly 60 percent of the banks revenues came from securitized loans, that is, loans that were passed on to the big investment banks where they were repackaged and sold to foreign investors and hedge funds as securities. According to the Wall Street Journal, " the issuance of nonagency mortgage-backed securities (MBS) in America has plunged by 98% year-on-year to a monthly average of $0.82 billion in the past four months, down from a peak of $136 billion in June 2006. There has been no new issuance in commercial MBS since July. This collapse in securitization is intensely deflationary."

This point is usually ignored by the pundits. Securitization increased velocity which added significantly to GDP, but that part of the market is now frozen--the investment banks are gone and the hedge funds are in distress--and the commercial banks are not capable of making up the difference. That means credit will continue to contract no matter what the Fed does. The recession will be long and deep...



Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner and presidential adviser Lawrence Summers believe they can fire off a massive stimulus salvo and put the economy back on track, but it will take more than that. The financial system needs fundamental structural reform and both men rose to power because they proved themselves loyal defenders of the status quo. Geithner and Summers may nibble at the edges and make grandiloquent proclamations about rebuilding the system, but when its time to pull the trigger, they will subvert every attempt to regulate or oversee the system which they feel is the sole province of the establishment elites who own the big financial institutions. There's bound to be plenty of blasting trumpets and celebratory confetti to greet Obama's economic whiz kids. Just don't expect change. Barring a complete economic meltdown, the rot at the heart of the system will continue to fester and grow under Obama just as it did under Bush and Clinton.

How can one maintain a free market system when financial institutions are not allowed to fail?
And how can such a system function properly without stop signs, guard rails, speed limits or rules that determine what side of the road one can drive?
And how can confidence be strengthened when no one pays for predatory lending, ratings manipulation, malfeasance, fraud, or any other white collar crime? So far, not one indictment has been served in the biggest financial swindle of all time. That's not how a "rules-based" system is supposed to operate.

AND MUCH MORE AT LINK
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Ghost Dog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-20-09 08:35 AM
Response to Reply #7
41. A propósito:
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radfringe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-20-09 06:10 AM
Response to Original message
9. woot!
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DemReadingDU Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-20-09 07:17 AM
Response to Reply #9
22. woot! woot!

finally!
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ozymandius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-20-09 06:15 AM
Response to Original message
11. U.S. stimulus not enough, TARP bailout misused: Soros
WASHINGTON (Reuters) – The stimulus plan the U.S. government is currently considering is necessary to help American citizens, but it will likely not reverse the country's economic decline, hedge fund manager and billionaire philanthropist George Soros said on Monday.

"It is not enough to turn the situation around," Soros told the U.S. Conference of Mayors about the $850 billion proposal to increase spending and cut taxes.

The plan, which was introduced in the U.S. House of Representatives last week and will likely be passed by next month, will help state and local governments balance their budgets and preserve important social services, Soros said.

....

Soros said the United States needed "radical and unorthodox policy measures" to prevent a repeat of the Great Depression of the early 20th century that include recapitalizing banks and writing down the country's accumulated debt.

Also, he said, it should create more money to offset the collapse of credit and then rapidly pull that cash out of the system when inflation emerges. The government would have to be very nimble in the timing of such moves, he said.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20090119/bs_nm/us_usa_economy_stimulus_soros
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Demeter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-20-09 07:15 AM
Response to Reply #11
21. What Obama Left Out of the Economic Recovery Plan: Higher Wages and Debt Relief By Mike Whitney
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article21792.htm





January 19, 2009 "Information Clearinghouse" -- - Barak Obama and Co. are planning to launch their own version of economic "shock and awe" in the opening weeks of the new administration. Aside from the $825 billion stimulus package, which will be used to create 3 million new jobs and make up for flagging consumer demand; Obama is planning a financial rescue operation for banks that are buried under hundreds of billions of dollars of troubled assets. Spearheaded by Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner and White House economics chief Lawrence Summers, the new program will create a government-backed "aggregator" bank that will purchase mortgage-backed securities (MBS) and other problem assets for which there is currently no active market. The proposed "bad bank" will do what the TARP program was supposed to do; wipe clean the banks balance sheets so they resume lending to consumers and businesses. Until the credit mechanism is fixed, the economy will continue slip deeper and deeper into recession.

This is not a normal recession where the mismatch between supply and demand will work itself out over time. The banking system is clogged and dysfunctional, the Wall Street funding-model (securitization) has broken down, global markets are in disarray and falling, and unemployment is steadily rising. The system is broken and can't be fixed without intervention. The question is, what parts of the present system are salvageable and which parts should be scrapped altogether. So far, too much attention has been devoted to re-inflating the credit bubble and not enough to off-balance sheets operations, over-leveraged assets, SIVs, opaque hedge funds, unregulated derivatives contracts and a financial system that operates without guard rails or oversight. The Obama team is more focused on treating the symptoms than curing the disease. That suggests that their ties to Wall Street make them unsuitable for the task at hand. The job requires competent people who are free from institutional and class bias which prevent them from acting in the public interest.

While it is true that the banks need emergency triage; the underlying problem is falling demand brought on by stagnant wages. This can't can be solved by making credit more easily available. In fact, credit expansion is what led to the present crisis. There needs to be a rethinking of wealth-distribution so that future crises can be avoided. The only way to maintain a healthy economy, without producing destructive speculative bubbles, is by strengthening the middle class via higher wages. That's the key to sustained consumer demand. The recent attempt to bust the auto makers union indicates that many members of Congress believe that the economy can thrive even though a disproportionate amount of the nation's wealth goes to the upper 5 percent. The current economic crisis illustrates the flaws in this argument.

Presently, the banks are sinking faster than the government's efforts to bail them out. That's why Obama asked Congress for the remaining $350 billion of the TARP funds. He knows that he'll need to be ready to provide emergency funding for capital-starved financial institutions (like Bank of America) as soon as he is sworn in. The market for mortgage-backed securities, credit card debt, car loans and student loans is frozen. The Fed has started to purchase large amounts of these toxic assets, but to no effect. Bernanke's purchase of agency debt--Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae--has pushed the 30-year fixed mortgage below 5 percent for the first time, but housing prices continue to tumble and sales are at record lows. The Fed's monetarist lifeline has done nothing to slow the pace of defaults, foreclosures or bankruptcies. Money supply alone cannot reverse the effects of a collapsing credit bubble.

Economists are finally making realistic projections of the costs of the meltdown. According to the Wall Street Journal:

"Estimates from Goldman Sachs: $1.1 trillion from residential mortgages, $390 billion from corporate loans and bonds, $234 billion from commercial real estate, $226 billion from credit cards, and $133 billion from auto loans."

Roughly $2 trillion in losses for financial institutions. Originally, experts thought the losses would be no more than $200 billion, a small sum considering that 65 percent of mortgages were securitized between 2003 to 2007 representing roughly $4 trillion in additional mortgage debt. Clearly, with housing prices plummeting, foreclosures skyrocketing and millions of mortgages under pressure from negative equity; losses were bound to be significantly larger than originally predicted. The banks have no way of making up the $2 trillion of lost capital, which is why economist Nouriel Roubini says, "the banking system is basically insolvent."


...The Obama economic recovery plan is a misreading of the real problem, which is not the availability of credit, but debt. Bernanke, Summers and Geithner are approaching the issue from the wrong end; they want to stimulate the economy through credit expansion and more red ink. This is just more of Greenspan's bubblenomics; the endless boom and bust cycle triggered by low interest crack sold to credulous speculators. The only ones who benefit are the Wall Street insiders who know how the cards are marked and then vamoose before the bubble pops. Easy money won't reverse the deflationary slide from a deep recession. It's time to rebuild on a solid foundation of rising wages, a stronger workforce, and a revitalized middle class. There's only two ways to grow the economy; higher wages or credit expansion. The latter option has already been tried and it ended in disaster.

...Summers and Geithner should pay attention to what's going on in the country and change their approach. The US consumer will not lead the way out of this economic downturn. It's physically impossible. The country is undergoing a generational shift from profligate consumerism to thriftiness. Stimulus alone won't get people spending. Salaries will have to go up to make up for losses in retirement funds and housing prices; and the face-value of mortgages and credit card debt will have to be written-down. Otherwise, spending will continue to falter and the economy will tank. No economic recovery plan has a chance of succeeding if it doesn't address these two key issues; higher wages and debt relief.

AND MUCH MORE. SEE LINK
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DemReadingDU Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-20-09 07:56 AM
Response to Reply #21
32. dupe of Krugman article
Edited on Tue Jan-20-09 07:59 AM by DemReadingDU
Demeter already posted
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antigop Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-20-09 10:37 AM
Response to Reply #21
71. In order to have "higher wages" you need j-o-b-s. Can't have higher wages if you don't have a job
Edited on Tue Jan-20-09 10:46 AM by antigop
http://www.barackobama.com/issues/economy/#trade

# End Tax Breaks for Companies that Send Jobs Overseas: Barack Obama and Joe Biden believe that companies should not get billions of dollars in tax deductions for moving their operations overseas. Obama and Biden will also fight to ensure that public contracts are awarded to companies that are committed to American workers.
# Reward Companies that Support American Workers: Barack Obama introduced the Patriot Employer Act of 2007 with Senators Richard Durbin (D-IL) and Sherrod Brown (D-OH) to reward companies that create good jobs with good benefits for American workers. The legislation would provide a tax credit to companies that maintain or increase the number of full-time workers in America relative to those outside the US; maintain their corporate headquarters in America if it has ever been in America; pay decent wages; prepare workers for retirement; provide health insurance; and support employees who serve in the military.


He promised us this...until I see this added to a "stimulus" package, we ain't stimulating the economy.

Stop the outsourcing, hire older workers, and hire US tech workers for jobs here.
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Tansy_Gold Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-20-09 10:55 AM
Response to Reply #71
74. Ding! Ding! Ding! Ding! Tansy's Golden Glob winner!
It's the jobs, stupid. (Not you, antigop. "them" is the stupids.) It's always been the jobs.



It's always been



Tansy Gold


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Demeter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-20-09 02:12 PM
Response to Reply #74
94. In My Own Defense, I Say Unto You, Anything Is Higher Than Zero!
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ozymandius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-20-09 06:20 AM
Response to Original message
13. U.S. stock futures drop on bank worries
LONDON (MarketWatch) - U.S. stock futures slipped Tuesday as enthusiasm over the inauguration of President-elect Obama was tempered by worries about the health of the financial sector after a beating taken by European banking stocks.

S&P 500 futures fell 8 points to 840.60 and Nasdaq 100 futures dropped 9.25 points to 1,187.70. Dow industrial futures lost 37 points.

....

While U.S. markets were closed, banking sectors in Europe plunged as the British government announced a second bailout plan and the Royal Bank of Scotland warned that it may lose about $42 billion in 2008 as it writes down loans, risky assets, and its acquisition of ABN Amro. The British government also upped its stake in RBS to about 70% from 58%.

http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/us-stock-futures-drop-bank/story.aspx?guid={8446D80C-E5B4-4906-8F12-AD99B0CD88C6}&dist=msr_1
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Ghost Dog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-20-09 08:40 AM
Response to Reply #13
43. GLOBAL MARKETS-Equities sell off, pound plunges on bank fear
Tue Jan 20, 2009 4:16am EST LONDON, Jan 20 (Reuters) - Fears about banks and the world economy underlined the difficulties confronting incoming U.S. President Barack Obama on Tuesday, sending equities sharply lower.

The dollar was stronger, however, with Britain's pound plunging on worries about the UK's banking system.

World stocks as measured by MSCI .MIWD00000PUS were down close to 1 percent, led by Asian shares. Emerging markets equities .MSCIEF lost 1.7 percent and Japan's Nikkei average .N225 closed down 2.3 percent.

...

"The market is refocusing on the bigger global picture," said Justin Gallagher, head of Sydney sales trading at ABN AMRO, pointing as well to expectations for weak corporate earnings results in coming weeks.

"Clearly the market today continues to factor in more disappointment and certainly, despite the inauguration of Obama ... the market is looking past that now and realising just how big a mess the global economy is in," he said.

...

"After yesterday's carnage, the smoke is still hanging over the market," said Justin Urquhart Stewart, director at Seven Investment Management.

"People talk about the nationalisation of the banks. That's almost beside the point, like interest rate cuts. What we have is the nationalisation of banking policy."

...

Fears about the outlook for the euro zone economy weighed on the euro after the European Commission on Monday issued a grim 2009 forecast and Standard and Poor's cut Spain's debt ratings.

...

"It's contagion from the downgrades that we've seen in the last few days. It's moving from one country to the next," said Nomura rate strategist Sean Maloney. "People are speculating who might be next."

/... http://www.reuters.com/article/marketsNews/idUSLK35326020090120?sp=true
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Ghost Dog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-20-09 08:43 AM
Response to Reply #43
44. Asian stocks slide on global banking fears
Edited on Tue Jan-20-09 08:47 AM by Ghost Dog
Tue Jan 20, 2009 2:44am EST HONG KONG, Jan 20 (Reuters) - Asian shares slumped on Tuesday on concerns that increasing woes in the global financial sector will deepen the world's economic downturn, highlighting the difficulties confronting incoming U.S. President Barack Obama.

The tumble came after Royal Bank of Scotland (RBS.L) on Monday unveiled the biggest loss in U.K. corporate history, and after Britain launched a second bank rescue plan that failed to restore confidence in the wobbly financial sector.

...

The MSCI index for Asia-Pacific stocks outside Japan .MIAPJ0000PUS slid 2.9 percent as of 0315 GMT, after earlier coming within 0.01 point of matching the 2009 low hit last week.

The index is down more than 8 percent so far this year, after it fell in 2008 by 53 percent -- its biggest decline on record. Still, Asian shares are up about 16 percent since hitting five-year lows in late November, having since outperformed an MSCI index of global stocks and the S&P 500 index .SPX.



Asian banking shares from HSBC (HSBA.L) (0005.HK) to Japanese lender Mizuho Financial Group (8411.T) were among the leading decliners in the region as worries intensify about a sector facing more credit and loan-related writedowns.

Japan's Nikkei .N225 fell 2.3 percent, while Australian shares .AXJO dropped 3.1 percent.

Other major Asian indexes, including in in Hong Kong .HSI, South Korea and Taiwan , fell 1-2 percent each.

...

Governments worldwide are grappling with how to get their banks lending again to revive economies, despite already injecting billions of dollars and implementing other measures such as backing some of their debt.

Central banks have also cut interest rates sharply in a bid to spark growth, but even that has failed to comfort investors.

/... http://www.reuters.com/article/marketsNews/idAFSP34700420090120?rpc=44&sp=true
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Ghost Dog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-20-09 08:52 AM
Response to Reply #43
45. Banking sector drags Europe shares lower at midday
Tue Jan 20, 2009 7:21am EST LONDON, Jan 20 (Reuters) - European shares were down by midday on Tuesday, with banking stocks retreating from earlier gains as woes about the global economy and the extent of losses in the sector deepened. By 1147 GMT, the FTSEurofirst 300 .FTEU3 index of top European shares was down 1.4 percent at 779.83 points, having earlier been up as much as 796.29 points.

...

Banks took the most points off the index.

Lloyds TSB (LLOY.L) slumped 47 percent to more than a 20-year low as traders pointed to continuation of gloom in the sector, while Barclays (BARC.L) lost nearly 18 percent.

"There is pressure on the banking industry as there is still uncertainty of the level of toxic assets," said Heino Ruland, strategist at FrankfurtFinanza.

"There has been talk in Germany there is still approximately 300 billion euros of losses in the banking sector and only a quarter of this has been reported."

Belgian banking and insurance group KBC Groep (KBC.BR) was down nearly 16 percent as investors worried it would need more government cash.

France's BNP Paribas (BNPP.PA) lost 7.7 percent as analysts said the group is seen as one of Europe's banks most in need of raising funds. Credit Suisse (CSGN.VX) and Societe Generale (SOGN.PA) were down 6.2 percent and 5.5 percent, respectively.

However, Royal Bank of Scotland (RBS.L) was up 5.1 percent following Monday's share price collapse.

...

Air France-KLM (AIRF.PA) slipped 8.3 percent as it said it expects to post a fiscal third-quarter operating loss as a deteriorating economic environment has led to weaker passenger revenue and a strong decline in cargo sales.

Across Europe, the FTSE 100 .FTSE index was down 0.3 percent, Germany's DAX .GDAXI was 0.3 percent and France's CAC 40 .FCHI was 0.8 percent lower.

...

Drug makers were the biggest risers on the index as investors turned to defensive stocks. AstraZeneca (AZN.L), GlaxoSmithKline (GSK.L) and Roche (ROG.VX) were up between 1.3 percent and 2.6 percent.

Telecoms were also in favour with Deutsche Telekom (DTEGn.DE) up 2.1 percent.

"Defensives are back in town as investors switch because of negative news about pure cyclical stocks," Ruland said.

French heavy engineering and transport group Alstom (ALSO.PA) was up 6.6 percent as it posted a lower than expected rise in third-quarter sales, while a decline in new orders was less pronounced than feared.

German retailer Metro (MEOG.DE) was 5.5 percent higher as a source close to the company told Reuters it plans to cut 15,000 jobs or about 5 percent of its global workforce by 2012 amid a broader restructuring programme.

/... http://www.reuters.com/article/marketsNews/idCALK36890120090120?rpc=44&sp=true
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Ghost Dog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-20-09 12:49 PM
Response to Reply #45
90. Europe shares fall 2.4 percent as financials slide
LONDON, Jan 20 (Reuters) - European shares fell 2.4 percent to a two-month closing low on Tuesday on mounting concerns that the financial sector will need more state help to emerge from a crisis, with Britain's Lloyds (LLOY.L) plunging 31 percent.

The FTSEurofirst 300 .FTEU3 index of top European shares provisionally closed 18.95 points lower at 772.28. The benchmark index is down more than 7 percent already this year after slumping 45 percent in 2008.

...

Banking shares lost heavily, with Barclays (BARC.L) sliding 18 percent, KBC Groep (KBC.BR) slipping 25 percent, BNP Paribas (BNPP.PA) down 13 percent and Societe Generale (SOGN.PA) falling nearly 14 percent.

...

Across Europe, the FTSE 100 .FTSE index was down 1 percent, Germany's DAX .GDAXI fell 2 percent and France's CAC 40 .FCHI was 2.3 percent lower.

/... http://www.reuters.com/article/marketsNews/idCALK7099320090120?rpc=44
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Ghost Dog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-20-09 08:56 AM
Response to Reply #43
47. Data fail to lift gloom as world waits on Obama
Tuesday January 20, 7:08 am ET

By Guy Dresser

LONDON (Reuters) - Improved German investor sentiment failed to lift equity market gloom on Tuesday as investors fretted about the financial system despite the promise of further multi-billion dollar interventions around the world.

German analyst and investor sentiment about Europe's biggest economy improved by more than expected in January. The monthly poll of economic sentiment by the ZEW economic think tank rose to -31.0 from -45.2 in December.

Economic data in Britain showed consumer price inflation falling by its biggest margin since April 1992 in December but by less than expected after sharp falls in the oil price and a cut in value added tax to 15 percent.

The headline rate of consumer price inflation slowed to 3.1 percent from 4.1 percent but above the forecast of 2.7 percent.

On Monday, Britain threw its troubled banks a second multi-billion pound lifeline in three months on Monday and gave its central bank the green light to pump cash into the ailing economy because interest rates are already close to zero.

Underscoring the dire state of the world economy, Japan reported consumer confidence plunging to a record low last month in yet another sign of deepening recession.

...

Economic figures due later this week and news of corporate shake-ups and downsizing are only likely to deepen the gloom.

...

Britain is set to confirm on Friday the world's fifth-largest economy is now in its first recession since 1992.

China, the world's main growth engine, on Tuesday reported its first rise in urban unemployment in five years. It will release Q4 GDP data on Thursday which are forecast to show annual growth at 7.0 percent, the slowest pace in nine years.

...

French Prime Minister Francois Fillon said carmakers needed massive, fast financing aid and his government was considering a package to help them worth 5-6 billion euros.

"I think all European governments share this opinion -- we will not wait. There is an emergency. We need a massive response on the automobile sector's financing," Fillon said.

His comments, at a summit on helping France's battered car industry, came after the head of PSA Peugeot Citroen (Paris:PEUP.PA - News) predicted a "terribly difficult" year in 2009 and declined to say whether the company would break even.

In Italy, trading in Fiat shares were suspended pending a statement, expected later in the day, on the outcome of talks with Chrysler and reports that a deal could see Fiat take a stake in the troubled U.S. automaker.

...

"The expectations for the Obama administration are off the charts," said Willian Keylor, a history professor at Boston University. "Whatever he accomplishes will be below the extraordinary expectations that people have for him."

Markets worry not only that bank rescues and government pump-priming will take time, but are also increasingly aware that those extraordinary actions to stem the financial wildfire come at a steep price, such as ballooning fiscal deficits.

Monday's downgrade in Spain's credit rating by Standard & Poor's drove that message home, hitting the euro as investors feared other government in the euro zone could experience the same fate as they spend heavily to refloat their economies.

/... http://biz.yahoo.com/rb/090120/business_us_financial.html?.v=6
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Demeter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-20-09 11:37 AM
Response to Reply #43
80. "nationalisation of banking policy", otherwise known as REGULATION, Would Be a Good Start!
Edited on Tue Jan-20-09 11:38 AM by Demeter
Followed immediately thereafter by enforcement and prosecution.
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ozymandius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-20-09 06:23 AM
Response to Original message
14. Fiat Nearing a Deal for Chrysler Stake
DETROIT — The Italian carmaker Fiat confirmed Tuesday that it was in talks to acquire a stake in Chrysler, the most financially troubled of the Detroit automakers.

John Elkann, Fiat’s vice chairman and a member of the company’s founding Agnelli family, told reporters in Milan that “it’s no mystery we are talking, we have been talking for a while,” the ANSA news agency reported. Earlier Tuesday, The Milan stock exchange suspended trading in Fiat shares pending a statement from the company after reports that Fiat was nearing a deal to take a large stake in Chrysler and begin selling small cars in the United States through Chrysler.

The deal could give Fiat control of 35 percent of Chrysler by later this year and possibly raise its stake in the American company to as much as 55 percent, according a person with knowledge of the talks, who spoke on condition of anonymity because the discussions were private.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/21/business/21chrysler.html?ref=business
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Demeter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-20-09 07:19 AM
Response to Reply #14
23. If G.M. Was a Canadian Company It Wouldn't Be Asking for Help By Dean Baker

http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/12/11/if_gm_was_a_canadian_company_i/




December 13, 2008 "Talking Points Memo" -- -The Detroit automakers have made many mistaken business decisions that have been important factors contributing to their current crisis. However, they are not responsible for some of the factors that have brought them to the brink of bankruptcy.

Most obviously, they are not responsible for the collapse of the housing bubble and the subsequent loss of more than $15 trillion in housing and stock wealth. This falloff in wealth has sent consumption plummeting. The auto industry has been especially hard hit, with sales falling by more than 30 percent year over year in the last two months.

The Big Three are also not responsible for the broken U.S. health care system. If we paid the same amount for health care as Canada, G.M. would have accumulated an additional $22 billion in profits over the last decade.

That would be the savings if we assumed that General Motor's health care expenditures were reduced by roughly 48 percent to be in line with expenses in Canada. Of course, not all the savings in this counterfactual would have gone to profits. Some of it would have gone to workers in the form of higher wages or to consumers in the form of lower car prices.

On the other hand, G.M. is also picking up the tab for many spouses and dependent children. It would not have to pay these health care expenses in a Canadian type system. So the $22 billion figure is probably not a bad first approximation of the additional money that G.M. might have today if the United States had a more efficient health care system.

Even with these additional profits G.M. and the other domestic manufacturers would still face serious problems. They have made some bad choices in betting their future on SUVs and other low-mileage vehicles. They also have lagged foreign manufacturers in producing high quality, reliable cars.

But the real reason that Big Three are on their deathbeds right now is the economic crisis created by the Wall Street crew and their friends in Washington. It will be tragic if the people of the Michigan, Indiana, and Ohio are made to suffer through a depression because of the failed financial dealings of the Wall Street crew.

This situation is made even worse by virtue of the fact that most of the Wall Street executives who are directly responsible for this disaster are still quite wealthy, in large part because of the generosity of Congress and the Bush administration. While they demanded that the auto manufacturers produce plans for returning to profitability in exchange for providing loans, no similar conditions were imposed on Citigroup and the rest of the Wall Street gang.

As the autoworkers at the Big Three look at their last paychecks before an indeterminate period of unemployment, they should think about the portion deducted for income taxes. With this money, they have helped to ensure that Robert Rubin and other Wall Street types continue to enjoy pay packages in the millions or even tens of millions of dollars.


WELL, ACTUALLY THROUGH ITS FINANCING ARM GMAC, GM CONTRIBUTED TO THE GUTTING OF THE ECONOMY. AND THROUGH VARIOUS LOBBYING EFFORTS, GM PROBABLY CONTRIBUTED TO THE OTHER PROBLEMS, TOO.

REFORM AND REGULATION OF ELECTIONS AND THE MARKETS CAN ADDRESS THESE ISSUES, THOUGH.
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cal04 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-20-09 07:57 AM
Response to Reply #14
33. Fiat and Chrysler create alliance
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/7839542.stm

Italian carmaker Fiat and US giant Chrysler have agreed to create a global strategic alliance, the companies said in a statement.

Under the terms of the deal, Fiat will get a 35% stake in the troubled US firm in return for access to its fuel-efficient vehicle technologies.

Fiat would also be able to improve its presence in the US market.

Chrysler is one of two Detroit-based carmakers to have received emergency US government loans.




Fiat (FIATY:6.24, -0.31, -4.7%) (IT:F: news , chart , profile ) is going to take a 35% equity interest in Chrysler. The tentative agreement needs U.S. Treasury clearance. Chrysler will get "access to competitive, fuel-efficient vehicle platforms, power-train, and components" to be produced at Chrysler manufacturing sites. Fiat would also provide distribution capabilities and enable substantial cost savings, the companies said. In addition, Fiat would provide management services supporting Chrysler's submission of a viability plan to the U.S. Treasury as required. The alliance does not contemplate that Fiat would invest cash in or commit to funding Chrysler.

http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/tuesdays-biggest-gaining-declining-stocks/story.aspx?guid=%7B0BADCFA7%2D491B%2D4AFC%2DB2E1%2DC6004A5622E9%7D&dist=TQP_Mod_mktwN
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boomerbust Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-20-09 06:23 AM
Response to Original message
15. Love the cartoon
:)
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ozymandius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-20-09 06:28 AM
Response to Reply #15
17. Thanks.
It speaks so well for itself.
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ozymandius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-20-09 06:26 AM
Response to Original message
16. RBS Will Be Guinea Pig for ‘Creeping Nationalization’
Jan. 20 (Bloomberg) -- Royal Bank of Scotland Group Plc, facing the biggest loss in British history, promised to make 6 billion pounds ($8.7 billion) available to U.K. borrowers as the lender took another step toward full government control.

In exchange for government guarantees on losses from toxic debt, the bank will have to sign a binding agreement with the Treasury on how much it will lend and on what terms. Auditors will move in to check the bank is following the government directive.

.....

RBS pledged to raise lending by at least 6 billion pounds to British companies after the government agreed to swap its preference shares for ordinary stock, saving the bank 600 million pounds in annual dividends to the Treasury. Northern Rock Plc, another government-owned lender, said it would encourage more mortgage customers to remain with the bank by repaying government loans at a slower rate.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=agzY.YMtlE04&refer=home
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Ghost Dog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-20-09 08:34 AM
Response to Reply #16
39. More on that and similar here:
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ozymandius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-20-09 06:33 AM
Response to Original message
18. Time to go.
Have a wonderful day everyone. My school duties call me to fashion an all-inaugural lesson plan for today.

I hope your schedule makes time for this momentous event.

ozy :hi:
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Demeter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-20-09 07:35 AM
Response to Reply #18
26. Many Thanks Ozy, for Leading Us Through the Wilderness
Edited on Tue Jan-20-09 07:39 AM by Demeter
and may we all reached the Promised Land, America, at last! I've filked a song for the occasion, with apologies to Stan Rogers, who will no doubt forgive. It's sung to THE MARY ELLEN CARTER.

THE US CONSTITUTION

She went down in 2000 in a pouring driving rain.
The skipper, he'd been drinking and the Mate, he felt no pain.
By a 5 to 4 decision she was dealt her mortal blow,
And the US CONSTITUTION settled low.

There were just us few aboard her when she finally was awash.
We'd worked like hell to save her, all heedless of the cost.
And the groan she gave as she went down, it caused us to proclaim
That the US CONSTITUTION would rise again.

Well, the owners wrote her off; not a nickel would they spend.
"She gave 200 years of service, boys, then met her sorry end.
But Wall Street paid the loss to us, so let her rest below."
Then they laughed at us and said we had to go.

But we talked of her all 8 years, some days around the clock,
For she's worth a our lives and souls, afloat and at the dock.
And with every jar that hit the bar, we swore we would remain
And make the US CONSTITUTION rise again.

Rise again, rise again, that her name not be lost
To the knowledge of men.
Those who loved her best and were with her till the end
Will make the US CONSTITUTION rise again.

All year, now, we've been with her on a barge lent by a friend.
Three dives a day in hard hat suit and twice I've had the bends.
Thank God it's only sixty feet and the currents here are slow
Or I'd never have the strength to go below.

But we'll patch her rents, stop her vents, dog hatch and porthole down.
Put cables to her, 'fore and aft and gird her around.
Tomorrow, noon, we hit the air and then take up the strain.
And watch the US CONSTITUTION Rise Again.

For we couldn't leave her there, you see, to crumble into scale.
She'd saved our lives so many times, living through the gale
And the laughing, drunken rats who left her to a sorry grave
They won't be laughing in another day. . .

And you, to whom adversity has dealt the final blow
With smiling bastards lying to you everywhere you go
Turn to, and put out all your strength of arm and heart and brain
And like the US CONSTITUTION rise again.

Rise again, rise again - though your heart it be broken
And life about to end
No matter what you've lost, be it a home, a love, a friend.
Like the US CONSTITUTION rise again.
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Dr.Phool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-20-09 08:13 AM
Response to Reply #18
36. The moment Obama takes the oath, I quit smoking.
Unfortunately, I'm also going to start drinking. A celebration. :party: :toast: :party:
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Hugin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-20-09 08:53 AM
Response to Reply #36
46. I've got a split of champagne on ice here.
Edited on Tue Jan-20-09 09:02 AM by Prag
Just waiting. :D


(Hey, it was on sale after New Years.)

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AnneD Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-20-09 11:10 AM
Response to Reply #18
77. At first the school board was going to make it a regular day...
complete with testing-but God Bless our parents-they came to the school board loaded for bear. We have it broadcast and accessable for most of out classes. The kids are as thrilled as the staff.
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Demeter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-20-09 07:24 AM
Response to Original message
24.  We Told You By David Sirota



December 13, 2008 "Campaign for America's Future" --- Please, forgive me for saying it. I know it's a tad annoying, but it has to be said to America's ruling class in this humble column space. Because if it's not said here you can bet it won't be said anywhere else in the media, and it needs to be said somewhere on behalf of the millions of citizens who were right.

We told you so.

In the slow-motion train wreck that became the current economic meltdown, our bipartisan political Establishment and the sycophantic punditburo have been wrong over and over and over again. They told us that eviscerating consumer protections would unleash the market's benevolent power and boost the economy. They told us that a trillion-dollar Wall Street bailout would solve a credit crisis. They told us that bailout would be subjected to intense oversight and scrutiny.

Wrong, wrong and wrong -- and when critics predicted just that, sneering commentators and congressional leaders berated us as know-nothing Luddites, conspiracy theorists, or both.

But with the release of three new reports, there's no debate anymore about who was correct and who wasn't. The studies prove that the critics were right and the ideologues of Washington were wrong.

When in 2005 Congress overwhelmingly passed a credit card industry-written bill gutting bankruptcy laws, progressives were right to try to stop it -- and not just because it was an immoral move to legalize usury. We were right because as the New York Federal Reserve Bank reports, the bill played an integral role in the recent foreclosure surge that crushed the economy.

In the past, bankruptcy laws made sure debtors first and foremost continued paying their mortgages so that they could stay in their home. But the 2005 legislation effectively compels debtors to first pay off their credit cards, meaning many then have no money left to pay their mortgage. The Fed's report estimates that the bankruptcy bill is causing 32,000 more foreclosures per quarter than the economy would have already generated.

We told you so.

When almost every media voice in America was sounding the alarm of financial panic and demanding a Wall Street bailout plan; when bailout opponents were roundly ridiculed as "irresponsible" by politician and pundit alike -- those opponents were nonetheless right to say then what a study from the Minneapolis Federal Reserve Bank says now: that the case hadn't been made.

While reporters and the Bush administration frantically insisted that bank-to-business lending had ceased, inter-bank lending had stopped, and short-term "commercial paper" loans had dried up, the Minneapolis researchers tell us that "all three claims were false" and continue to be false; that "nobody has explained how the money system has frozen when the data says it has not"; and that "a trillion dollar intervention warrant(ed) a bit more serious analysis."

We told you so.

When lawmakers said the bailout included strict oversight measures, skeptics were right to say that claim was patently untrue. According to a new analysis by federal officials at the Government Accountability Office, virtually nonexistent oversight of the bailout means "taxpayers may not be adequately protected" and that the bailout's stated goal of fixing the economy "may not be achieved in an efficient and effective manner."

Yes, we told you so.

And so now, even though these damning reports have garnered scant news coverage, perhaps there will be a change. As we -- the pragmatic progressive majority - demand tough new financial regulations; job-creating investments in public infrastructure; labor law reforms; universal health care; revised international trade policies; a repeal of the odious bankruptcy bill and an end to Wall Street welfare - maybe, just maybe, our humiliated rulers will start listening.


David Sirota is a bestselling author whose newest book is "The Uprising." He is a fellow at the Campaign for America's Future and a board member of the Progressive States Network-both nonpartisan organizations. His blog is at www.credoaction.com/sirota.

http://www.ourfuture.org/blog/blogger/5095 http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article21454.htm
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Tansy_Gold Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-20-09 09:18 AM
Response to Reply #24
53. Shall I send him a rubber stamp? n/t
n/t
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Hugin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-20-09 09:32 AM
Response to Reply #53
57. Smashing idea, Tansy_Gold.
:thumbsup:
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Demeter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-20-09 11:32 AM
Response to Reply #53
79. If the Spirit Moves You, Sure!
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Demeter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-20-09 07:45 AM
Response to Original message
28.  What Obama Must Do By: Paul Krugman
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/25456948/what_obama_must_do

January 14, 2009 "Rolling Stone" -- A Letter to the new president. What Obama must do.

Dear Mr. President:

Like FDR three-quarters of a century ago, you're taking charge at a moment when all the old certainties have vanished, all the conventional wisdom been proved wrong. We're not living in a world you or anyone else expected to see. Many presidents have to deal with crises, but very few have been forced to deal from Day One with a crisis on the scale America now faces.

So, what should you do?

In this letter I won't try to offer advice about everything. For the most part I'll stick to economics, or matters that bear on economics. I'll also focus on things I think you can or should achieve in your first year in office. The extent to which your administration succeeds or fails will depend, to a large extent, on what happens in the first year - and above all, on whether you manage to get a grip on the current economic crisis.

The Economic Crisis

How bad is the economic outlook? Worse than almost anyone imagined.

The economic growth of the Bush years, such as it was, was fueled by an explosion of private debt; now credit markets are in disarray, businesses and consumers are pulling back and the economy is in free-fall. What we're facing, in essence, is a yawning job gap. The U.S. economy needs to add more than a million jobs a year just to keep up with a growing population. Even before the crisis, job growth under Bush averaged only 800,000 a year - and over the past year, instead of gaining a million-plus jobs, we lost 2 million. Today we're continuing to lose jobs at the rate of a half million a month.

There's nothing in either the data or the underlying situation to suggest that the plunge in employment will slow anytime soon, which means that by late this year we could be 10 million or more jobs short of where we should be. This, in turn, would mean an unemployment rate of more than nine percent. Add in those who aren't counted in the standard rate because they've given up looking for work, plus those forced to take part-time jobs when they want to work full-time, and we're probably looking at a real-world unemployment rate of around 15 percent - more than 20 million Americans frustrated in their efforts to find work.

The human cost of a slump that severe would be enormous. The Center on Budget and Policy Priorities, a nonpartisan research group that analyzes government programs, recently estimated the effects of a rise in the unemployment rate to nine percent - a worst-case scenario that now seems all too likely. So what will happen if unemployment rises to nine percent or more? As many as 10 million middle-class Americans would be pushed into poverty, and another 6 million would be pushed into "deep poverty," the severe deprivation that happens when your income is less than half the poverty level. Many of the Americans losing their jobs would lose their health insurance too, worsening the already grim state of U.S. health care and crowding emergency rooms with those who have nowhere else to go. Meanwhile, millions more Americans would lose their homes. State and local governments, deprived of much of their revenue, would have to cut back on even the most essential services.

If things continue on their current trajectory, Mr. President, we will soon be facing a great national catastrophe. And it's your job - a job no other president has had to do since World War II - to head off that catastrophe.

Wait a second, you may say. Didn't other presidents also face troubled economies? Yes, they did - but when it came to economic policy, your predecessors weren't actually running the show. For the past half century the Federal Reserve - a more or less independent institution, run by technocrats and deliberately designed to be independent of whoever happens to occupy the White House - has been taking care of day-to-day, and even year-to-year, economic management. Your fellow presidents were just along for the ride.

Remember the economic boom of 1984, which let Ronald Reagan run on the slogan "It's morning again in America"? Well, Reagan had absolutely nothing to do with that boom. It was, instead, the work of Paul Volcker, whom Jimmy Carter appointed as chairman of the Federal Reserve Board in 1979 (and who's now the head of your economic advisory panel). First Volcker broke the back of inflation, at the cost of a recession that probably doomed Carter's re-election chances in 1980. Then Volcker engineered an economic bounce-back. In effect, Reagan dressed up in a flight suit and pretended to be a hotshot economic pilot, but Volcker was the guy who actually flew the plane and landed it safely.

You, on the other hand, have to pull this plane out of its nose dive yourself, because the Fed has lost its mojo.

Compare the situation right now with the one back in the 1980s, when Volcker turned the economy around. All the Fed had to do back then was print a bunch of dollars (OK, it actually credited the money to the accounts of private banks, but it amounts to the same thing) and then use those dollars to buy up U.S. government debt. This drove interest rates down: When Volcker decided that the economy needed a pick-me-up, he was quickly able to drive the interest rate on Treasury bills from 13 percent down to eight percent. Lower interest rates on government debt, in turn, quickly drove down rates on mortgages and business borrowing. People started spending again, and within a few months the economy had gone from slump to boom. Economists call this process - from the Fed's decision to print more money to the resulting pickup in spending, jobs and incomes - the "monetary transmission mechanism." And in the 1980s that mechanism worked just fine.

This time, however, the transmission mechanism is broken.

First of all, while the Fed can still print money, it can't drive interest rates down. Why? Because those interest rates are already about as low as they can go. As I write this letter, the interest rate on Treasury bills is 0.005 percent - that is, zero. And you can't push rates lower than that. Now, you might think that zero interest rates would lead to an orgy of borrowing. But while the U.S. government can borrow money for free, the rest of us can't. Fear rules the financial markets, so over the past year and a half, as the interest rates on government debt have plunged, the interest rates that Main Street has to pay have mostly gone up. In particular, many businesses are paying much higher interest rates now than they were a year and a half ago, before the Fed started cutting. And they're lucky compared to the many businesses that can't get credit at all.

Besides, even if more people could borrow, would they really want to spend? There's a glut of unsold homes on the market, so there's very little incentive to build more houses, no matter how low mortgage rates go. The same goes for business investment: With office buildings standing empty, shopping malls begging for tenants and factories sitting idle, who wants to spend on new capacity? And with workers everywhere worried about job security, people trying to save a few dollars may stampede into stores that offer deep discounts, but not many people want to buy the big-ticket items, like cars, that normally fuel an economic recovery.

So as I said, the Fed has lost its mojo. Ben Bernanke and his colleagues are trying everything they can think of to unfreeze the credit markets - the alphabet soup of new "lending facilities," with acronyms nobody can remember, is growing by the hour. Any day now, the joke goes, everyone will have a Visa card bearing the Fed logo. But at best, all this activity only serves to limit the damage. There's no realistic prospect that the Fed can pull the economy out of its nose dive.

So it's up to you.

Rescuing the Economy

The last president to face a similar mess was Franklin Delano Roosevelt, and you can learn a lot from his example. That doesn't mean, however, that you should do everything FDR did. On the contrary, you have to take care to emulate his successes, but avoid repeating his mistakes.

About those successes: The way FDR dealt with his own era's financial mess offers a very good model. Then, as now, the government had to deploy taxpayer money in order to rescue the financial system. In particular, the Reconstruction Finance Corporation initially played a role similar to that of the Bush administration's Troubled Assets Relief Program (the $700 billion program everyone knows about). Like the TARP, the RFC bulked up the cash position of troubled banks by using public funds to buy up stock in those banks.

There was, however, a big difference between FDR's approach to taxpayer-subsidized financial rescue and that of the Bush administration: Namely, FDR wasn't shy about demanding that the public's money be used to serve the public good. By 1935 the U.S. government owned about a third of the banking system, and the Roosevelt administration used that ownership stake to insist that banks actually help the economy, pressuring them to lend out the money they were getting from Washington. Beyond that, the New Deal went out and lent a lot of money directly to businesses, to home buyers and to people who already owned homes, helping them restructure their mortgages so they could stay in their houses.

Can you do anything like that today? Yes, you can. The Bush administration may have refused to attach any strings to the aid it has provided to financial firms, but you can change all that. If banks need federal funds to survive, provide them - but demand that the banks do their part by lending those funds out to the rest of the economy. Provide more help to homeowners. Use Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, the home-lending agencies, to pass the government's low borrowing costs on to qualified home buyers. (Fannie and Freddie were seized by federal regulators in September, but the Bush administration, bizarrely, has kept their borrowing costs high by refusing to declare that their bonds are backed by the full faith and credit of the taxpayer.)

Conservatives will accuse you of nationalizing the financial system, and some will call you a Marxist. (It happens to me all the time.) And the truth is that you will, in a way, be engaging in temporary nationalization. But that's OK: In the long run we don't want the government running financial institutions, but for now we need to do whatever it takes to get credit flowing again.

All of this will help - but not enough. By all means you should try to fix the problems of banks and other financial institutions. But to pull the economy out of its slide, you need to go beyond funneling money to banks and other financial institutions. You need to give the real economy of work and wages a boost. In other words, you have to get job creation right - which FDR never did.

This may sound like a strange thing to say. After all, what we remember from the 1930s is the Works Progress Administration, which at its peak employed millions of Americans building roads, schools and dams. But the New Deal's job-creation programs, while they certainly helped, were neither big enough nor sustained enough to end the Great Depression. When the economy is deeply depressed, you have to put normal concerns about budget deficits aside; FDR never managed to do that. As a result, he was too cautious: The boost he gave the economy between 1933 and 1936 was enough to get unemployment down, but not back to pre-Depression levels. And in 1937 he let the deficit worriers get to him: Even though the economy was still weak, he let himself be talked into slashing spending while raising taxes. This led to a severe recession that undid much of the progress the economy had made to that point. It took the giant public works project known as World War II - a project that finally silenced the penny pinchers - to bring the Depression to an end.

The lesson from FDR's limited success on the employment front, then, is that you have to be really bold in your job-creation plans. Basically, businesses and consumers are cutting way back on spending, leaving the economy with a huge shortfall in demand, which will lead to a huge fall in employment - unless you stop it. To stop it, however, you have to spend enough to fill the hole left by the private sector's retrenchment.

How much spending are we talking about? You might want to be seated before you read this. OK, here goes: "Full employment" means a jobless rate of five percent at most, and probably less. Meanwhile, we're currently on a trajectory that will push the unemployment rate to nine percent or more. Even the most optimistic estimates suggest that it takes at least $200 billion a year in government spending to cut the unemployment rate by one percentage point. Do the math: You probably have to spend $800 billion a year to achieve a full economic recovery. Anything less than $500 billion a year will be much too little to produce an economic turnaround.

Spending on that scale, at a time when the weakening economy is driving down tax collection, will produce some really scary deficit numbers. But the consequences of too much caution - of a failure on your part to do enough to stop the economy's nose dive - will be even scarier than the coming ocean of red ink.

In fact, the biggest problem you're going to face as you try to rescue the economy will be finding enough job-creation projects that can be started quickly. Traditional WPA-type programs - spending on roads, government buildings, ports and other infrastructure - are a very effective tool for creating employment. But America probably has less than $150 billion worth of such projects that are "shovel-ready" right now, projects that can be started in six months or less. So you'll have to be creative: You'll have to find lots of other ways to push funds into the economy.

As much as possible, you should spend on things of lasting value, things that, like roads and bridges, will make us a richer nation. Upgrade the infrastructure behind the Internet; upgrade the electrical grid; improve information technology in the health care sector, a crucial part of any health care reform. Provide aid to state and local governments, to prevent them from cutting investment spending at precisely the wrong moment. And remember, as you do this, that all this spending does double duty: It serves the future, but it also helps in the present, by providing jobs and income to offset the slump.

You can also do well by doing good. The Americans hit hardest by the slump - the long-term unemployed, families without health insurance - are also the Americans most likely to spend any aid they receive, and thereby help sustain the economy as a whole. So aid to the distressed - enhanced unemployment insurance, food stamps, health-insurance subsidies - is both the fair thing to do and a desirable part of your short-term economic plan.

Even if you do all this, however, it won't be enough to offset the awesome slump in private spending. So yes, it also makes sense to cut taxes on a temporary basis. The tax cuts should go primarily to lower- and middle-income Americans - again, both because that's the fair thing to do, and because they're more likely to spend their windfall than the affluent. The tax break for working families you outlined in your campaign plan looks like a reasonable vehicle.

But let's be clear: Tax cuts are not the tool of choice for fighting an economic slump. For one thing, they deliver less bang for the buck than infrastructure spending, because there's no guarantee that consumers will spend their tax cuts or rebates. As a result, it probably takes more than $300 billion of tax cuts, compared with $200 billion of public works, to shave a point off the unemployment rate. Furthermore, in the long run you're going to need more tax revenue, not less, to pay for health care reform. So tax cuts shouldn't be the core of your economic recovery program. They should, instead, be a way to "bulk up" your job-creation program, which otherwise won't be big enough.

Now my honest opinion is that even with all this, you won't be able to prevent 2009 from being a very bad year. If you manage to keep the unemployment rate from going above eight percent, I'll consider that a major success. But by 2010 you should be able to have the economy on the road to recovery. What should you do to prepare for that recovery?

Beyond the Crisis

Crisis management is one thing, but America needs much more than that. FDR rebuilt America not just by getting us through depression and war, but by making us a more just and secure society. On one side, he created social-insurance programs, above all Social Security, that protect working Americans to this day. On the other, he oversaw the creation of a much more equal economy, creating a middle-class society that lasted for decades, until conservative economic policies ushered in the new age of inequality that prevails today. You have a chance to emulate FDR's achievements, and the ultimate judgment on your presidency will rest on whether you seize that chance.

The biggest, most important legacy you can leave to the nation will be to give us, finally, what every other advanced nation already has: guaranteed health care for all our citizens. The current crisis has given us an object lesson in the need for universal health care, in two ways. It has highlighted the vulnerability of Americans whose health insurance is tied to jobs that can so easily disappear. And it has made it clear that our current system is bad for business, too - the Big Three automakers wouldn't be in nearly as much trouble if they weren't trying to pay the medical bills of their former employees as well as their current workers. You have a mandate for change; the economic crisis has shown just how much the system needs change. So now is the time to pass legislation establishing a system that covers everyone.

What should this system look like? Some progressives insist that we should move immediately to a single-payer system - Medicare for all. Although this would be both the fairest and most efficient way to ensure that all Americans get the health care they need, let's be frank: Single-payer probably isn't politically achievable right now, simply because it would represent too great a change. At least at first, Americans who have good private health insurance will be reluctant to trade that insurance for a public program, even if that program will ultimately prove better.

So the thing to do in your first year in office is pass a compromise plan - one that establishes, for the first time, the principle of universal access to care. Your campaign proposals provide the blueprint. Let people keep their private insurance if they choose, subsidize insurance for lower-income families, require that all children be covered, and give everyone the option to buy into a public plan - one that will probably end up being cheaper and better than private insurance. Pass legislation doing all that, and we'll have universal health coverage up and running by the end of your first term. And that will be an achievement that, like FDR's creation of Social Security, will permanently change America for the better.

All this will cost money, mainly to pay for those insurance subsidies, and some people will tell you that the nation can't afford major health care reform given the costs of the economic recovery program. Let's talk about why you should ignore the naysayers.

First, let's put the costs of the economic-recovery program in perspective. It's possible that reviving the economy might cost as much as a trillion dollars over the course of your first term. But the Bush administration wasted at least twice that much on an unnecessary war and tax cuts for the wealthiest; the recovery plan will be intense but temporary, and won't place all that much burden on future budgets. Put it this way: With long-term federal debt paying the lowest interest rates in half a century, the interest costs on a trillion dollars in new debt will amount to only $30 billion a year, about 1.2 percent of the current federal budget.

Second, there's good reason to believe that health care reform will save money in the long run. Our system isn't just full of holes in coverage, it's also grossly inefficient, with huge bureaucratic costs - such as the immense resources that insurance companies devote to making sure they don't cover the people who need health care the most. And under a universal system it will be much easier to use our health care dollars wisely, to spend money only on medical procedures that work and not on those that don't. Since rising health care costs are the main source of the grim, long-run projections for the federal budget, the truth is that we can't afford not to move forward on health care reform.

And let's not ignore the long-term political effects. Back in 1993, when the Clintons tried and failed to create a universal health care system, Republican strategists like William Kristol (now my colleague at The New York Times) urged their party to oppose any reform on political grounds; they argued that a successful health care program, by conveying the message that government can actually serve the public interest, would fundamentally shift American politics in a progressive direction. They were right - and the same considerations that made conservatives so opposed to health care reform should make you determined to make it happen.

Universal health care, then, should be your biggest priority after rescuing the economy. Providing coverage for all Americans can be for your administration what Social Security was for the New Deal. But the New Deal achieved something else: It made America a middle-class society. Under FDR, America went through what labor historians call the Great Compression, a dramatic rise in wages for ordinary workers that greatly reduced income inequality. Before the Great Compression, America was a society of rich and poor; afterward it was a society in which most people, rightly, considered themselves middle class. It may be hard to match that achievement today, but you can, at least, move the country in the right direction.

What caused the Great Compression? That's a complicated story, but one important factor was the rise of organized labor: Union membership tripled between 1935 and 1945. Unions not only negotiated better wages for their own members, they also enhanced the bargaining power of workers throughout the economy. At the time, conservatives warned that wage gains would have disastrous economic effects - that the rise of unions would cripple employment and economic growth. But in fact, the Great Compression was followed by the great postwar boom, which doubled American living standards over the course of a generation.

Unfortunately, the Great Compression was reversed starting in the 1970s, as American workers once again lost much of their bargaining power. This loss was partly due to changes in the world economy, as major U.S. manufacturing corporations started facing more international competition. But it also had a lot to do with politics, as first the Reagan administration, then the Bush administration, did all they could to undermine the ability of workers to organize.

You can make a start on reversing that process. Clearly, you won't be able to oversee a tripling of union membership anytime soon. But you can do a lot to enhance workers' rights. One is to start laying the groundwork to pass the Employee Free Choice Act, which would make it much harder for employers to intimidate workers who want to join a union. I know it probably won't happen in your first year, but if and when it does, the legislation will enable America to take a huge step toward recapturing the middle-class society we've lost.

Truth & Reconciliation

There are many other issues you'll need to deal with, of course. In particular, I haven't said a word about environmental policy, which is ultimately the most important issue of all. That's because I suspect that it won't be possible to pass a comprehensive plan for dealing with climate change in your first year. By all means, put as much environmentally friendly investment as possible - such as spending to enhance energy efficiency - into the initial recovery plan. But I'm guessing that 2009 won't be the year to introduce cap-and-trade measures to reduce greenhouse gas emissions. If I'm wrong, that's great - but I'm not counting on big environmental policy moves right away.

I also haven't said anything about foreign policy. Your team is well aware of the need to wind down the war in Iraq - which is, by the way, costing about as much each year as the insurance subsidies we need to implement universal health care. You're also aware of the need to find the least bad solution for the mess in Afghanistan. And I don't even want to think about Pakistan - but you have to. Good luck.

There is, however, one area where I feel the need to break discipline. I'm an economist, but I'm also an American citizen - and like many citizens, I spent the past eight years watching in horror as the Bush administration betrayed the nation's ideals. And I don't believe we can put those terrible years behind us unless we have a full accounting of what really happened. I know that most of the inside-the-Beltway crowd is urging you to let bygones be bygones, just as they urged Bill Clinton to let the truth about scandals from the Reagan-Bush years, in particular the Iran-Contra affair, remain hidden. But we know how that turned out: The same people who abused power in the name of national security 20 years ago returned as part of the team that, under the second George Bush, did it all over again, on a much larger scale. It was an object lesson in the truth of George Santayana's dictum: Those who refuse to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.

That's why this time we need a full accounting. Not a witch hunt, maybe not even prosecutions, but something like the Truth and Reconciliation Commission that helped South Africa come to terms with what happened under apartheid. We need to know how America ended up fighting a war to eliminate nonexistent weapons, how torture became a routine instrument of U.S. policy, how the Justice Department became an instrument of political persecution, how brazen corruption flourished not only in Iraq, but throughout Congress and the administration. We know that these evils were not, whatever the apologists say, the result of honest error or a few bad apples: The White House created a climate in which abuse became commonplace, and in many cases probably took the lead in instigating these abuses. But it's not enough to leave this reality in the realm of things "everybody knows" - because soon enough they'll be denied or forgotten, and the cycle of abuse will begin again. The whole sordid tale needs to be brought out into the sunlight.

It's probably best if Congress takes the lead in investigations of the Bush years, but your administration can do its part, both by not using its influence to discourage the investigations and by bringing an end to the Bush administration's stonewalling. Let Congress have access to records and witnesses, and let the truth be told.

That said, the future is what matters most. This month we celebrate your arrival in the White House; at a time of great national crisis, you bring the hope of a better future. It's now up to you to deliver on that hope. By enacting a recovery plan even bolder and more comprehensive than the New Deal, you can not only turn the economy around - you can put America on a path toward greater equality for generations to come.

Respectfully,

Paul Krugman
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DemReadingDU Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-20-09 07:58 AM
Response to Reply #28
34. I just posted this too,

I'll delete my posting.

:hi:
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tclambert Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-20-09 07:38 PM
Response to Reply #28
104. Thank you, Paul Krugman.
The three most important things in the economy are jobs, jobs, and jobs. Make more jobs than even FDR did. People need jobs. Nothing wrong with the economy that 10 million jobs wouldn't fix. Fix the roads, the bridges, the goddamn LEVEES! Rebuild New Orleans! (Three and a half years and so little rebuilt is a DISGRACE.) Rebuild the World Trade Center! (Seven and a half years and it's still a HOLE IN THE GROUND.) How about a new Panama Canal? (They've wanted a bigger one for a long time.) Hell, how about some pyramids? (Okay, is that too far? You don't wanna be called crazy. Still, it would mean jobs and tourist dollars and maybe you could store nuclear waste there.) There ya go, build a long-term nuclear waste repository. I nominate Crawford, Texas as the location. Nothing there but a ranch without any cattle anyway.
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DemReadingDU Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-20-09 08:08 AM
Response to Original message
35. Martin Weiss: The End Game

1/19/09 The End Game by Martin Weiss Ph.D.

Just a month after our trusted leaders in Washington told us that the debt crisis was over …

Just a week after Wall Street was still rejoicing with a great “Obama rally”…

And only hours before the new president takes the oath of office …

A larger, more menacing banking disaster has burst onto the scene.

Why? The fundamental reason is obvious:

Back in September, when Wall Street’s largest firms were feared to be sick or dying, the financial epidemic was largely limited to Wall Street. Most of the broader economy was still holding up. Except for housing and mortgages, the contagion had not yet hit Main Street.

Now, just four months later, all that has changed. Unemployment has gone through the roof in almost every industry. Nonfinancial firms are failing in large numbers. The entire economy has tanked.

Back in September, the big losses at major banks and Wall Street firms were limited primarily to mortgages and mortgage-backed derivatives. That was bad enough. But it was just the beginning.

Now, due to the sinking economy, the stated value of virtually every asset on the books of every bank in America is highly questionable. Whether you call this a severe recession, a depression or just an economic free-fall, the value of almost every bank asset is greatly overstated.

Even back in September, it was virtually impossible for any government, even ours, to muster sufficient resources to save the nation’s megabanks. The banks were simply too big. There were too many of them in trouble. Their losses were too large; their capital deficits too deep.

Now, with the losses spreading and mounting, the idea that, somehow, the government can save them all has been carried beyond the threshold of absurdity. Now, we are near the end game — and the government is likely to lose.

Ask yourself these basic questions:

* Can the U.S. government save two of the nation’s three largest megabanks — Citigroup and Bank of America — despite the worst asset quality in their history and the worst economic collapse in a half century?

* Can the U.S. government save these two banks while nearly every major investment bank, including Merrill Lynch, has already collapsed?

* Can it pull it off even as thousands of large and small retail companies, air transport firms, auto companies and others file for Chapter 11?

* Can it engineer this feat even as Europe and Asia sink into an abyss?

If your answer to these questions is “no,” you’re at odds with virtually the entire Washington and Wall Street establishment, whether Republican or Democrat, whether in the old administration or the new one.

Strangely, though, if your answer is “yes,” you’re out of synch with a reality that’s abundantly obvious to any objective observer.

Think about it. Just one year ago, if you had posed these questions to any established economist, the response would have been something like this:

“The notion that the U.S. government might even contemplate such a Herculean task is so naive and so preposterous, it doesn’t even rise to the level of B-grade science fiction.”

Yet, they’re not just contemplating it. They’re actually trying to DO it:

* With the threat of a Wall Street meltdown last September, Congress passed the $700 billion TARP package and released $350 billion to buy up bad bank assets.

* Just a few weeks later, Treasury Secretary Paulson abandoned that plan and decided instead to dump the $350 billion into bad bank stocks, funneling the capital directly to the banks.

* Now, according to a just-released report by the Congressional Budget Office (CBO), taxpayers have already lost at least $64 billion on that investment.

* Despite these sudden and huge losses, Congress has lunged forward, approving the second $350 billion, a big chunk of which was poured into the Citigroup and Bank of America bailouts just last week.

* Even while the Treasury was abandoning its plan to buy up bad bank assets, the Federal Reserve was plowing ahead with a $500 billion program that does precisely that.

* Now the Fed is proposing a massive “bad bank,” which could multiply those $500 billion several times over. Or, it says, it’ll create a massive entity that acts like a giant insurance company, picking up most or all of the tab for bank losses.

All this! And nothing is working!

The entire TARP program is a financial disaster and a bureaucratic nightmare.

The Federal Reserve has exhausted its hoard of Treasuries and is drowning in toxic paper on its books.

The Treasury Department is creating, almost instantly, the largest federal deficit of all time.

And yet, despite all these efforts, the economy is still collapsing, the banks are still sinking and officials are still running around like headless chickens looking for “creative solutions.”

The solution is staring them in the face: If a bank is bankrupt, regulators must step in and pro-actively shut it down.

If the bank’s so sick that it can’t be rehabilitated, its assets must be liquidated. If it wants to avoid liquidation, it needs to prove it can meet minimal capital standards. This is not rocket science. It’s Banking 101.

As long as the government is pursuing this folly, you cannot expect a recovery. Quite the contrary, you must expect that each new incarnation of the debt crisis will be a bigger threat to your wealth and your income.

Fortunately, we have a practical, real-world solution for you and your family. It’s easy. And it’s readily accessible to all investors. Click here for more information.

Good luck and God bless!

Martin
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april Donating Member (826 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-20-09 08:14 AM
Response to Original message
38. I have waited for this day for 8 years !!
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radfringe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-20-09 08:34 AM
Response to Original message
40. fairly current pic


http://msnbcmedia1.msn.com
and still 3 1/2 hrs to go... various media are reporting expected crowd to be 2-million
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Tansy_Gold Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-20-09 09:09 AM
Response to Reply #40
49. THAT is awe- (and tear!) inspiring!
To my fellow SMWers:

I'm enough of a cynic or at least a pragmatist not to be all euphoric over the election of Barack Obama. I'm not entirely pleased with some of his cabinet picks and other appointees, and I haven't yet seen an economic agenda that makes any sense in the reality I'm familiar with.

But seeing these crowds, hearing the hope that has crept into even the most cynical voices, THAT gives me spiritual sustenance.

So I won't say we've put the worst behind us, because we all know just when you think it can't get any worse, it does; but I do think we're starting to change course. And there seems to be enough energy to keep the momentum going for a good long while!



Your one and only (thank the goddess!)


Tansy Gold
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AnneD Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-20-09 09:42 AM
Response to Reply #49
62. Here are some words of hope that I come back to again and again....
Still I Rise


You may write me down in history
With your bitter, twisted lies,
You may trod me in the very dirt
But still, like dust, I'll rise.

Does my sassiness upset you?
Why are you beset with gloom?
'Cause I walk like I've got oil wells
Pumping in my living room.

Just like moons and like suns,
With the certainty of tides,
Just like hopes springing high,
Still I'll rise.

Did you want to see me broken?
Bowed head and lowered eyes?
Shoulders falling down like teardrops.
Weakened by my soulful cries.

Does my haughtiness offend you?
Don't you take it awful hard
'Cause I laugh like I've got gold mines
Diggin' in my own back yard.

You may shoot me with your words,
You may cut me with your eyes,
You may kill me with your hatefulness,
But still, like air, I'll rise.

Does my sexiness upset you?
Does it come as a surprise
That I dance like I've got diamonds
At the meeting of my thighs?

Out of the huts of history's shame
I rise
Up from a past that's rooted in pain
I rise
I'm a black ocean, leaping and wide,
Welling and swelling I bear in the tide.
Leaving behind nights of terror and fear
I rise
Into a daybreak that's wondrously clear
I rise
Bringing the gifts that my ancestors gave,
I am the dream and the hope of the slave.
I rise
I rise
I rise.

Maya Angelou


This poem has been quoted to the point of cliche-and the one she wrote for Clinton's Inagural - Pulse of a New Day might be a better choice but this one is carved in the soul so to speak. She is a poet that speaks to me and I can't wait to hear the one that speaks to Obama. Wow what a change-to again have a President that like poetry. Pinch me.

Here on the pulse of this new day
You may have the grace to look up and out
And into your sister's eyes, into
Your brother's face, your country
And say simply
Very simply
With hope
Good morning.


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Mnemosyne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-20-09 11:53 AM
Response to Reply #62
83. Still WE rise,
:hug:
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llmart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-20-09 10:38 AM
Response to Reply #49
72. Optimism and hope......
are half the battle. I'm usually not a pollyanna, but I do think we need to portray a sense of "Yes We Can" from this day forward.
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radfringe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-20-09 09:48 AM
Response to Reply #40
63. another one
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Hugin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-20-09 09:57 AM
Response to Reply #63
66. Look at all the peoples!
:bounce:
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Ghost Dog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-20-09 10:25 AM
Response to Reply #40
70. BBC (will be streaming live from 16:30 GMT):
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RobertSeattle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-20-09 09:01 AM
Response to Original message
48. Let the Obama Rally Begin!
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Demeter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-20-09 11:43 AM
Response to Reply #48
81. It's Not Happening
I think sellers were hoping to cash in on an Obama rally, but there are no buyers out there....

probably because they are all out on the Mall.
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UpInArms Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-20-09 09:20 AM
Response to Original message
56. dollar watch


http://quotes.ino.com/chart/?s=NYBOT_DX&v=i

Last trade 86.046 Change +0.479 (+0.62%)

US Dollar Rallies on Dow Losses, but will Stocks Finally Rebound?

http://www.dailyfx.com/story/currency/eur_fundamentals/US_Dollar_Rallies_on_Dow_1232151305200.html

The US Dollar finished the week broadly higher against major forex counterparts, as flare-ups in financial market tensions led to aggressive buying of the safe-haven US currency. Investors sent the US Dow Jones Industrials Average briefly below the psychologically significant 8,000 mark for the first time since November, but a subsequent ease in market tensions allowed downtrodden US stocks to bounce back through end-of-week trade. The recovery was all the more impressive given the absolutely dismal string of economic developments through recent weeks. In fact, December’s Advance Retail Sales report showed the biggest single-month decline in the survey’s 20-year track record. There are few signs of hope in recent economic data, but some believe that economic stimulus plans and the US Treasury’s bailout funds will improve US fundamentals. All the same, bleak outlook for the US economy does little to boost forecasts for the dollar.

The week ahead will be relatively tame in terms of planned economic event risk, but recent experience has shown that the US Dollar may nonetheless remain volatile on shifts in financial sentiment. The sole noteworthy reports on the calendar will come on Wednesday and Thursday, with NAHB Housing Index, Housing Starts, and Building Permits reports to shed further light on the state of the domestic housing market. An outright crash in house prices was the “smoking gun” that began the ongoing global financial crisis, but some hope that a material improvement in real estate markets will boost prospects for major financial institutions that hold toxic mortgage debt. However unlikely that may seem given current economic outlook, it will be important to watch any and all housing data as it relates to markets for home mortgages.

Otherwise the US Dollar will continue to trade off of global financial risk sentiment, and a continuation of recent bearish trends would likely send the US Dollars to fresh highs against the Euro and other risk-sensitive currencies. Medium term trends clearly favor further US Dow Jones Industrials Average losses, but extremely trough-to-peak volatility makes holding short positions extremely difficult. That being said, our own research shows that 2009 Price to Earnings (P/E) ratios on the Dow’s 30 stocks are currently at their lowest levels since 1996—at which point the Dow went on to stage a massive recovery. Though we certainly will not call for a stock market bottom in the face of such sharp declines, the underlying fundamentals for stocks have arguably improved—at least as far as common valuations are concerned. Whether or not a stock market bottom translates into a US Dollar top is another matter entirely, but recent forex correlations suggest that equity market rebounds would lead to commensurate dollar weakness.



...more...


US Open: Cable Collapses to 7.5 Year Low

http://www.dailyfx.com/story/market_alerts/fundamental_alert/US_Open__Cable_Collapses_to_1232458260842.html

US Open – More broad based USD gains overnight with an acceleration in the flight to safety trade on rising concerns over the stability of the overseas markets highlighted by the disastrous performance in the UK markets. The surprisingly firmer than expected UK inflation data (+3.1% versus +2.7% consensus) did little to prop the heavy setbacks overnight with Cable dropping to a fresh +7 year low. The primary driver of the sterling liquidation came on the back of concerns over the elevated levels of UK government debt and an escalation in fears of a potential downgrade to UK sovereign debt. It has already been a disheartening start to the week for Sterling bulls with the single currency suffering on Monday following the RBS announcement that it was set to post its biggest loss in corporate history at GBP28B. EUR/USD setbacks were also significant overnight with the release of the mixed ZEW data failing to materially factor into price action. Traders seemed to be more heavily focused on the broader global macro themes while also expressing deep concern over more talk of troubles with the Euro currency and the detrimental impact on various economies, the latest being Spain. A recent article in a local newspaper has said that the “Euro is a torture instrument for Spain.” Looking ahead, key event risk in the North American session comes in the form of the Bank of Canada rate decision at 14:00GMT. The BoC is expected to cut rates by 50bps to 1.00%.

...more...
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Ghost Dog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-20-09 09:42 AM
Response to Reply #56
61. Zero Rates Push Currency Traders to Cash-Rich Franc, Yen, Krone
Jan. 20 (Bloomberg) -- At a time when interest-rates are sinking toward zero around the world, the biggest currency traders are recommending countries that have the largest trade surpluses, led by Japan, Norway and Switzerland.

BNP Paribas SA, the best currency forecaster in a 2007 Bloomberg survey, says the yen will strengthen about 14 percent against the dollar by June. Goldman Sachs Group Inc. made Norway’s krone one of its top 2009 picks, with possible gains of 17 percent versus the dollar. Bank of America Corp., the largest U.S. lender by assets, says the Swiss franc will advance against every major currency.

The global economic crisis that forced central banks from the U.S. to New Zealand to cut interest rates last year also reduced earnings from so-called carry trades by about half, according to data compiled by Bloomberg. Currencies of countries with trade surpluses are perceived as safer because governments don’t have to brave credit markets in a year when sovereign bond sales are likely to exceed $3 trillion.

“The tide has turned,” said Jens Nordvig, a senior currency strategist in New York at Goldman Sachs. “Surplus currencies such as the franc and the yen are likely to perform well, while the deficit countries are pretty vulnerable.”

Switzerland’s current-account surplus was 8 percent of gross domestic product last year, while Japan’s was 3.8 percent and Norway’s 16 percent, according to the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development. That compares with deficits of 4.9 percent of GDP in the U.S., 5.1 percent in Australia and 9.5 percent in New Zealand.

...

Between 2002 and 2008, currencies of countries with current-account surpluses lagged behind those with deficits. Goldman Sachs’s CA Outperformance index declined 40 percent in the five years through October 2007.

Betting on gains in so-called surplus currencies ignores the risk that global trade will nosedive, said Chirag Gandhi, a money manager of a $2.5 billion fund at the Investment Board of State of Wisconsin in Madison, Wisconsin, who cut his bets on gains in the yen. International trade will shrink in 2009 for the first time in more than 25 years, the Washington-based World Bank said in December.

...

There’s also the risk that central banks will take steps to prevent their currencies from strengthening. Japan Finance Minister Shoichi Nakagawa signaled last month policy makers were ready to intervene in foreign exchange market for the first time in four years. Thomas Jordan of the Swiss National Bank said Jan. 15 the central bank was watching foreign-exchange markets “very closely.”

...

Countries with trade deficits are preparing to borrow record sums to finance economic-stimulus programs. Euro-region nations will borrow about $1.1 trillion in 2009, according to Royal Bank of Scotland Group Plc. The U.S. Treasury will borrow about $2 trillion this fiscal year ending Sept. 30, compared with $892 billion in notes and bonds last year.

“It’s about preservation of capital rather than return on capital,” said Scott Ainsbury, who helps manage about $12 billion in currency in New York at FX Concepts Inc. and is buying the franc and the yen while selling the New Zealand dollar. “People who say the bottom is in are kidding themselves. What you see is people basically running away from risk.”

/... http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601109&sid=atqZx_nlbFxA&refer=exclusive
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Hugin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-20-09 09:37 AM
Response to Original message
59. Approx 09:32 EST: Last fleeting minutes of the Dumb Reich...
Dow 8,226.74 -54.48 (-0.66%)
S&P 500 842.00 -8.12 (-0.96%)
Nasdaq 1,517.53 -11.80 (-0.77%)


10y bond 2.49% +0.03 (1.22%)
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Hugin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-20-09 09:41 AM
Response to Reply #59
60. Dow Countdown Value Pool Entries (Final)
Edited on Tue Jan-20-09 09:42 AM by Prag
The Pool called for predictions on:

Where the Dow will be on Bush's last day and minute, 1/20/09, at 11:59am EST.

Entries:

Ozymandius - 8,016.73
radfringe - 8,243.74
Prag - Up-side: 8,837.94, Down-side: 8,158.10
KoKo01 - Up-side: 9,000.00, Down-side: 8,100.00
Ghost Dog - 7,970.00
AnneD - Up-side: 8,395.00 or a sigh of relief Down-side of 7,890.00 (Finally heard from Jimmy.)
MsLeopard - 7,777.77 (Casino Style.)
CatholicEdHead - 7,863.56
DemReadingDU - 8,080.80 (A nice round number.)
UpInArms - 7,578.24 (Wants that in Trillions.)
TalkingDog - 7,500.00
PassingFair - 7,500.00 (Could have a tie here!)
natrat - 6,248.00 (Whoa, a new Cassandra!)
spinbaby - 7,992.44
DanaM - 8,999.99
spotbird - 8,516.00, 8,580.00 or there abouts.
GliderGuider - 7,650.00
Birthmark - 7,600.00
RetailSlave - 8,888.88 (Another round number.)
Gentle Giant - 8,317.69 (A little B-day magic.)
Wednesdays - 7,850.00
Tansy_Gold - 8248.24
InkAddict - 8,474.00
Roland99 - 8,449.00
dumpbush - 7,997.55
Karenina - 8,192.68
bain_sidhe - 7,979.79
tclambert - 8,350.00
lumberjack_jeff - 8,417.00

Dr.Phool - 10,000.00 (Pay no attention... Outlier.)

Good Luck.
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Hugin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-20-09 09:54 AM
Response to Reply #60
65. Approx 09:45 EST: One last dump for the road...
Dow 8,161.83 -119.39 (-1.44%)
S&P 500 831.02 -19.10 (-2.25%)
Nasdaq 1,495.30 -34.03 (-2.23%)


10y bond 2.48% +0.02 (0.81%)
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Hugin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-20-09 10:01 AM
Response to Reply #65
67. Approx 10:00 EST: Time is short...
Edited on Tue Jan-20-09 10:01 AM by Prag
Dow 8,134.11 -147.11 (-1.78%)
S&P 500 829.64 -20.48 (-2.41%)
Nasdaq 1,491.88 -37.45 (-2.45%)
10y bond 2.45% -0.01 (-0.41%)


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Hugin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-20-09 10:19 AM
Response to Reply #67
69. Approx 10:15 EST: Current Market Values...
Dow 8,156.65 -124.57 (-1.50%)
S&P 500 830.41 -19.71 (-2.32%)
Nasdaq 1,489.57 -39.76 (-2.60%)
10y bond 2.44% -0.02 (-0.81%)


I will take the opportunity to point out the Dow is within two (2)
points of MY choice.

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Hugin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-20-09 10:48 AM
Response to Reply #69
73. Approx 10:45 EST: Update...
Dow 8,135.55 -145.67 (-1.76%)
S&P 500 828.49 -21.63 (-2.54%)
Nasdaq 1,486.24 -43.09 (-2.82%)
10y bond 2.45% -0.01 (-0.41%)


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Hugin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-20-09 11:04 AM
Response to Reply #73
76. Approx 11:00 EST: Off the highs so far...
Dow 8,126.07 -155.15 (-1.87%)
S&P 500 829.05 -21.07 (-2.48%)
Nasdaq 1,485.73 -43.60 (-2.85%)
10y bond 2.46% -0.01 (-0.40%)


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Hugin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-20-09 11:29 AM
Response to Reply #76
78. Approx 11:30 EST: Yippie! Half an hour.
Dow 8,098.75 -182.47 (-2.20%)
S&P 500 824.78 -25.34 (-2.98%)
Nasdaq 1,478.34 -50.99 (-3.33%)


10y bond 2.47% +0.01 (0.41%)
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Hugin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-20-09 11:45 AM
Response to Reply #78
82. Approx 11:45 EST: And the crowd goes wild!
No update... WATCH THE INAUGURATION!
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Hugin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-20-09 12:19 PM
Response to Reply #82
87. Approx 12:15 EST: I end with a tune... "Tuesday Afternoon" -- The Moody Blues.
Edited on Tue Jan-20-09 12:39 PM by Prag
:party: :bounce: :beer: :toast:

The Adults are in charge...

Tuesday Afternoon
Moody Blues


Tuesday afternoon,
I'm just beginning to see, now I'm on my way
It doesn't matter to me, chasing the clouds away.

Something, calls to me,
The trees are drawing me near, I've got to find out why...
Those gentle voices I hear, explain it all with a sigh.

I'm looking at myself reflections of my mind,
It's just the kind of day to leave myself behind.
So gently swaying through the fairyland of love,
If you'll just come with me you'll see the beauty of

Tuesday afternoon, Tuesday afternoon.

Tuesday, afternoon,
I'm just beginning to see, now I'm on my way.
It doesn't matter to me, chasing the clouds away.
Something, calls to me,
The trees are drawing me near, I've got to find out why...
Those gentle voices I hear, explain it all with a sigh."


For the YouTubers... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JjBvPHqO9KU




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Dr.Phool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-20-09 01:12 PM
Response to Reply #87
91. From my all-time favorite band!
Edited on Tue Jan-20-09 01:20 PM by Dr.Phool
Damn, that's an old clip.

Justin Hayward looks young (they all do), and Mike Pinder on the Mellotron (remember those?).
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Dr.Phool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-20-09 10:07 AM
Response to Reply #60
68. I need a whole batallion of faeries! Quick!
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AnneD Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-20-09 12:20 PM
Response to Reply #68
88. I just need a few strong faeries.....
show me some love, show me some love.
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Ghost Dog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-20-09 12:05 PM
Response to Reply #60
85. Looks like it's going to be Prag (on the downside) as oath commences:
Dow 8,143.99 Down 137.23 (1.66%)
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Hugin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-20-09 12:16 PM
Response to Reply #85
86. According to Google Finance @ Jan 20th, 2009 12:00 EST the Dow was...
8,121.53

At 11:58 the value was 8,136.26

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Ghost Dog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-20-09 12:22 PM
Response to Reply #86
89. I saw it oscillating between your good self and KoKo01, both on the downside
Edited on Tue Jan-20-09 12:23 PM by Ghost Dog
via Yahoo with I don't know how much delay. And I was monitoring the oath-taking via BBC internet radio, again with I don't know how much delay, rather than going by the clock.

Looks like KoKo01's the winner, then, but you'll be the one to call it, Prag. Well done both!

(looks fairly stable, during the speech, now. Where will the Dow be at the end of the day?)
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Dr.Phool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-20-09 01:14 PM
Response to Reply #89
92. It's down a bit more. Looks like we're heading for the 7000 club.
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Demeter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-20-09 12:01 PM
Response to Original message
84. Funds fear clawback by Madoff trustee
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/cb3efd7a-e581-11dd-afe4-0000779fd2ac.html


Fund of funds managers who invested with Bernard Madoff are bracing themselves for clashes with their investors, even if they reduced or redeemed their positions before authorities were informed he was running an alleged $50bn Ponzi scheme.

Not only could the funds be forced by the courts to return all but their initial investment in the Madoff scheme – even if that money has already been returned to their own investors – but they will also have to substantially restate their results going back years.

Over the years, a range of investment funds have received money back from Mr Madoff, often far more than they had put in, because he told them he had such steady annual returns.

Now they are squarely in the cross-hairs of Irving Picard, the trustee appointed by the Securities Investor Protection Corp to recover money for Mr Madoff’s current investors. A source close to Mr Picard’s team of lawyers said they are looking back to the legal precedents from the 2005 collapse of the $450m Bayou hedge fund.

In that case, authorities were able to recover investors’ profits going back six years because they were all illusory.

Mr Madoff’s investment operation dates back decades but prosecutors have not said at what point they believe it became a pyramid scheme in which early investors were paid out of money from new investors. The complaint filed against Mr Madoff says he told his sons that he was struggling to meet requests for $7bn in redemptions.

“They will reach back into every entity that ever invested with Mr Madoff,” forecast the head of one of the largest fund of hedge funds, which has never invested with Mr Madoff.

Two lawyers who have worked on similar cases said many of the early redeemers have already distributed their Madoff proceeds, so they may in turn have to go after their investors. So far, though, virtually none of the funds have set aside reserves or warned investors that they may face such claims.

For example, Arden Asset Management, a New York-based fund of hedge funds, pulled its investment from Mr Madoff in 2002. People familiar with the group say it has not set aside money and does not expect Mr Picard to make such demands. Arden declined to comment on how much money it had got back from Mr Madoff.

EIM, a London-based fund of hedge funds also pulled money from Mr Madoff before his December 11 arrest. EIM declined to comment.

Union Bancaire Privé, which said it had $700m invested with Mr Madoff after his arrest, had much more money invested earlier in the year, according to people familiar with the matter. Indeed, one person says UBP received $200m shortly before the collapse of Mr Madoff’s fund. A spokesperson declined comment.

Man Group’s RMF fund of funds had $360m invested in two funds that funnelled money to Mr Madoff, one managed by Tremont Group’s Rye Investment Management division and the other by Gibraltar-based Reliance Management’s British Virgin Islands operation. But Man is not making any provisions for claims by the Madoff trustee. “That awaits the outcome of the legal process,” said Peter Clarke, chief executive.

Funds that funnelled money to Mr Madoff also face marketing problems in gathering new investor money. In many cases, the alleged fraud at his operation means these funds’ performance was overstated and volatility understated.

Additional reporting by James Mackintosh
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Yavin4 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-20-09 02:02 PM
Response to Original message
93. 22% and 44% DECLINES
Keep these numbers with you at all times when you debate with your Republican buddies.

While the Republicans ran the show from 2001 to 2008, the DOW sank 22%, and the NASDAQ sank 44%!!!!

Let's kill the Republicans are good for business meme once and for all.
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tclambert Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-20-09 07:17 PM
Response to Reply #93
103. I had trouble parsing that last sentence.
"Let's kill the Republicans are good for business meme once and for all." My brain kept repunctuating it: "Let's kill the Republicans once and for all. It's good for business."
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girl gone mad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-20-09 02:50 PM
Response to Original message
95. Bear market rallies often end on good news.
It looks like that's what we've had happen over the last couple of weeks. People are selling on the news of stimulus, finally getting rid of Bush and having a competent administration.
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Demeter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-20-09 03:21 PM
Response to Reply #95
96. The Air Came Out of the Souffle
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specimenfred1984 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-20-09 03:50 PM
Response to Original message
97. Banking system is d-e-a-d dead, 1st thing Obama will have to address
It'll still be a major shock to most Americans who's good German attitudes and delusions still inhibit their ability to see what their own complicity in corruption has done. As I've stated before, the last thing the Argentinian elites did before the complete collapse of their economy was flee the country with whatever money they could get their hands on. Our greedy corporations/banks/insurance/real estate/credit card assholes that are "too big to fail" are doing the same thing, offshoring everything they can while their American interests go bankrupt.

Here's the worst part: most Americans deserve this economic meltdown, they have allowed themselves to become dumbed-down TV robots who march to propaganda only and who purposely traded science, intellectuals and truth for greed, torture and a moron they'd like to have a beer with.

I'm glad the day has finally come that I've seen coming for years, every ahole that's called me a traitor, anti-American, moonbat, conspiracy theorist, blah blah blah can go straight to hell and now suffer the consequences of their own actions. The outcome will be good will the work of democrats now in power but it never had to go this far and I condemn everyone who just sat back and let it happen.
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BeHereNow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-20-09 05:54 PM
Response to Reply #97
102. Amen- RIGHTEOUS post Fred!
Edited on Tue Jan-20-09 05:55 PM by BeHereNow
If Americans only knew how much wealth has been moved
to undisclosed locations... by unseen hands.

They are are about to pay dearly for their ignorance and apathy.
Not even Obama can save us from what is coming.
Hate to point that out, but it is a fact.

BHN
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Festivito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-20-09 04:16 PM
Response to Original message
98. Debt: 01/15/2009 10,627,708,753,691.49 (UP 21,739,948,758.06) (Debt worse.)
(Finally a Friday dump of 20-billion more borrowing. Still looks like Bush will be shy of becoming the 5T$ man. He could be the 4.9T$ president, presiding over a 6.9T$ debacle. 11.8T$ of trouble.)

= Held by the Public + Intragovernmental(FICA)
= 6,309,144,617,619.47 + 4,318,564,136,072.02
UP 20,470,437,698.93 + UP 1,269,511,059.13

Source: Debt to the penny:
http://www.treasurydirect.gov/NP/BPDLogin?application=np

THINKING IN BILLIONS: 3 or 4 dollars per billion in a 300-Million person America.
If every American, man, woman and child puts in $3.33 each THAT'S 1B$.
A family of three: Mom, Dad, Child: THEIR SHARE IS TEN BUCKS in a 1B$ federal program.
I hope that is clear. However, I'd suggest using $3 per 1B$ to underestimate it.
Use $4 per 1B$ to overestimate the cost when thinking: Is a federal program worth it?
Aid to Dependant Children: 2B$/yr =$8/yr(a movie a year) Family of 3: $24/yr(an hour of bowling)
(I hate those end to end dollars to the moon and back, or years to spend $100/second. Just say'n)
If you read this and have a suggestion or comment, good or bad, I'd love to see it.

ANALYSIS:
There were 22 reports in the last 30 to 31 days.
The average for the last 22 reports is -1,267,852,653.17.
The average for the last 30 days would be -929,758,612.32.
The average for the last 31 days would be -899,766,399.02.
There were 252 reports in 365 days of FY2007 averaging 1.99B$ per report, 1.37B$/day.
There were 253 reports in 366 days of FY2008 averaging 4.02B$ per report, 2.78B$/day.
There were 73 reports in 107 days of FY2009 averaging 8.26B$ per report, 5.64B$/day.

PROJECTION:
GWB** must relinquish the presidency in less than 5 days from the date of this report.
By that time the debt could be between 10.6 and 10.7T$.
It could be higher. It could be lower.

HISTORICAL:
President's term begins and ends on Jan 20.
(Guess who might want to hide the Reagan Bush years. Jan 20 data is missing before 1993.)
01/20/1993 _4,188,092,107,183.60 WJC Inaugural
01/22/2001 _5,728,195,796,181.57 WJC (UP 1,540,103,688,997.97)
01/15/2009 10,627,708,753,691.40 GWB (UP 4,899,512,957,509.83 so far since Bush took office.)

Fiscal Year ends: Sep 30
Borrowed in FY1993: (Maybe later.)
Borrowed in FY1994: 281,261,026,873.94
Borrowed in FY1995: 281,232,990,696.07
Borrowed in FY1996: 250,828,038,426.34
Borrowed in FY1997: 188,335,072,261.61
Borrowed in FY1998: 113,046,997,500.28
Borrowed in FY1999: 130,077,892,735.81
Borrowed in FY2000: _17,907,308,253.43 Bill alone
Borrowed in FY2001: 133,285,202,313.20 Bill and George
Borrowed in FY2002: 420,772,553,397.10 All George
Borrowed in FY2003: 554,995,097,146.46
Borrowed in FY2004: 595,821,633,586.70
Borrowed in FY2005: 553,656,965,393.18
Borrowed in FY2006: 574,264,237,491.73
Borrowed in FY2007: 500,679,473,047.25
Borrowed in FY2008: 1,017,071,524,650.01
Borrowed in FY2009: 602,983,856,779.00 so far this fiscal year.

LAST FIFTEEN REPORTS OF ADDITIONS TO PUBLIC DEBT(NOT FICA):
12/24/2008 -000,121,597,338.38 ---
12/26/2008 -036,328,594,643.92 -
12/29/2008 -000,737,189,520.41 --- Mon
12/30/2008 +000,055,730,362.68 ------------*******
12/31/2008 +046,553,280,763.13 ------------**********
01/02/2009 -049,252,670,832.20 -
01/05/2009 -000,912,747,082.07 --- Mon
01/06/2009 -000,344,326,906.71 ---
01/07/2009 -000,314,429,077.84 ---
01/08/2009 -027,599,431,464.26 -
01/09/2009 -000,568,123,287.98 ---
01/12/2009 -001,098,982,842.59 -- Mon
01/13/2009 -000,038,769,243.84 ----
01/14/2009 -000,515,208,818.51 ---
01/15/2009 +020,470,437,698.93 ------------**********

-50,752,622,233.97 Total of 15 above reports.

Heavy borrowing seems to start after 09/18/2008.
US borrowed $963,076,950,432.42 in last 119 days.
That's 963B$ in 119 days.
More than any year ever, except last year, and it's 95% of that highest year ever only in 119 days.
And it is over 100% of ANY dismal Bush, for any dismal Bush-year, ONLY IN 119 DAYS NOT 365.

For a prettier and more explanatory view of our nation's debt:
http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock

(Debt to the penny keeps changing. Stuff is missing. Best to keep our own history.) LAST REPORT:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=3693002&mesg_id=3694561
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Festivito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-20-09 04:25 PM
Response to Reply #98
99. Debt: 01/16/2009 10,628,881,485,510.23 (UP 1,172,731,818.74) (Little change.)
(Bush is gone. Just a few days before his actions up to 1/20/09 account. I'm already breathing easier.)

= Held by the Public + Intragovernmental(FICA)
= 6,308,564,856,414.67 + 4,320,316,629,095.56
DOWN 579,761,204.80 + UP 1,752,493,023.54

Source: Debt to the penny:
http://www.treasurydirect.gov/NP/BPDLogin?application=np

THINKING IN BILLIONS: 3 or 4 dollars per billion in a 300-Million person America.
If every American, man, woman and child puts in $3.33 each THAT'S 1B$.
A family of three: Mom, Dad, Child: THEIR SHARE IS TEN BUCKS in a 1B$ federal program.
I hope that is clear. However, I'd suggest using $3 per 1B$ to underestimate it.
Use $4 per 1B$ to overestimate the cost when thinking: Is a federal program worth it?
Aid to Dependant Children: 2B$/yr =$8/yr(a movie a year) Family of 3: $24/yr(an hour of bowling)
(I hate those end to end dollars to the moon and back, or years to spend $100/second. Just say'n)
If you read this and have a suggestion or comment, good or bad, I'd love to see it.

ANALYSIS:
There were 22 reports in the last 30 to 31 days.
The average for the last 22 reports is -76,137,154.07.
The average for the last 30 days would be -55,833,912.99.
The average for the last 31 days would be -54,032,819.02.
There were 252 reports in 365 days of FY2007 averaging 1.99B$ per report, 1.37B$/day.
There were 253 reports in 366 days of FY2008 averaging 4.02B$ per report, 2.78B$/day.
There were 74 reports in 108 days of FY2009 averaging 8.16B$ per report, 5.59B$/day.

PROJECTION:
GWB** must relinquish the presidency in less than 4 days from the date of this report.
By that time the debt could be between 10.6 and 10.7T$.
It could be higher. It could be lower.

HISTORICAL:
President's term begins and ends on Jan 20.
(Guess who might want to hide the Reagan Bush years. Jan 20 data is missing before 1993.)
01/20/1993 _4,188,092,107,183.60 WJC Inaugural
01/22/2001 _5,728,195,796,181.57 WJC (UP 1,540,103,688,997.97)
01/16/2009 10,628,881,485,510.20 GWB (UP 4,900,685,689,328.63 so far since Bush took office.)

Fiscal Year ends: Sep 30
Borrowed in FY1993: (Maybe later.)
Borrowed in FY1994: 281,261,026,873.94
Borrowed in FY1995: 281,232,990,696.07
Borrowed in FY1996: 250,828,038,426.34
Borrowed in FY1997: 188,335,072,261.61
Borrowed in FY1998: 113,046,997,500.28
Borrowed in FY1999: 130,077,892,735.81
Borrowed in FY2000: _17,907,308,253.43 Bill alone
Borrowed in FY2001: 133,285,202,313.20 Bill and George
Borrowed in FY2002: 420,772,553,397.10 All George
Borrowed in FY2003: 554,995,097,146.46
Borrowed in FY2004: 595,821,633,586.70
Borrowed in FY2005: 553,656,965,393.18
Borrowed in FY2006: 574,264,237,491.73
Borrowed in FY2007: 500,679,473,047.25
Borrowed in FY2008: 1,017,071,524,650.01
Borrowed in FY2009: 604,156,588,597.80 so far this fiscal year.

LAST FIFTEEN REPORTS OF ADDITIONS TO PUBLIC DEBT(NOT FICA):
12/26/2008 -036,328,594,643.92 -
12/29/2008 -000,737,189,520.41 --- Mon
12/30/2008 +000,055,730,362.68 ------------*******
12/31/2008 +046,553,280,763.13 ------------**********
01/02/2009 -049,252,670,832.20 -
01/05/2009 -000,912,747,082.07 --- Mon
01/06/2009 -000,344,326,906.71 ---
01/07/2009 -000,314,429,077.84 ---
01/08/2009 -027,599,431,464.26 -
01/09/2009 -000,568,123,287.98 ---
01/12/2009 -001,098,982,842.59 -- Mon
01/13/2009 -000,038,769,243.84 ----
01/14/2009 -000,515,208,818.51 ---
01/15/2009 +020,470,437,698.93 ------------**********
01/16/2009 -000,579,761,204.80 ---

-51,210,786,100.39 Total of 15 above reports.

Heavy borrowing seems to start after 09/18/2008.
US borrowed $964,249,682,251.16 in last 120 days.
That's 964B$ in 120 days.
More than any year ever, except last year, and it's 95% of that highest year ever only in 120 days.
And it is over 100% of ANY dismal Bush, for any dismal Bush-year, ONLY IN 120 DAYS NOT 365.

For a prettier and more explanatory view of our nation's debt:
http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock

(Debt to the penny keeps changing. Stuff is missing. Best to keep our own history.) LAST REPORT:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=3698116&mesg_id=3698833
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ozymandius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-20-09 04:39 PM
Response to Original message
100. Ferocious trading on Bush's last day plundering.
Edited on Tue Jan-20-09 05:08 PM by ozymandius
Losers all around - even bonds.

Dow 7,949.09 Down 332.13 (4.01%)
Nasdaq 1,440.86 Down 88.47 (5.78%)
S&P 500 805.22 Down 44.90 (5.28%)
10-Yr Bond 2.345% Up 0.041

NYSE Volume 7,274,743,500
Nasdaq Volume 2,017,329,125

Edit for this:

Financial stocks tumbled 16.7% Tuesday, registering their worst single-session decline since a 17% drop Dec. 1. Ongoing weakness in the financial sector has rekindled pessimism in the broader market.

Losses in both the financial sector and the S&P 500 mounted steadily as the session progressed. The selling effort took the S&P 500 past December lows as roughly 97% of the companies in the index finished the session with losses.

Investment services outfit State Street (STT 14.89, -21.46) saw its market cap halved after it updated late last week certain risk factors, and indicated certain cash-like investments have lost value, which has the company holding some $5.5 billion in unrealized after-tax losses. The disclosures overshadowed better-than-expected fourth quarter earnings.

Citigroup (C 2.80, -0.70) continues looking to narrow its operational focus as it moves away from its status as a financial supermarket amid ongoing challenges. Reports indicate Citigroup is looking to divest its Japanese retail brokerage unit after recently selling part of its U.S. unit, Smith Barney, to Morgan Stanley (MS 13.10, -2.49). After the closing bell Citi announced it is slashing its quarterly dividend to a penny per share from $0.16 per share.

Shares of Citi, along with other major financial services giants JPMorgan Chase (JPM 18.09, -4.73) and Bank of America (BAC 5.10, -2.08) all closed near multiyear lows amid the realization that banks have a long, arduous path to recovery.

A week ago the trio reported their latest quarterly results, which helped spur a 16.5% weekly loss in the sector.

European bank shares were also under stiff pressure. Royal Bank of Scotland (RBS 3.33, -7.52) may face a record loss valued at more than $40 billion for 2008, which has the British government considering increasing its stake in the bank by converting preferred stock into common shares. Shares of RBS dropped more than 70% in U.S. trading.

Barclays (BCS 4.16, -3.09) fell more than 40% this session as investors remain concerned Britain's government will take a stake in the outfit. The fears were compounded by word the government may be making broader efforts to restore the country's banking system, which many believe smacks of nationalization.

Though financials fared the worst, all 10 of the major economic sectors succumbed to selling pressure. Even defensive-oriented sectors like utilities (-1.0%), consumer staples (-1.5%), and health care (-2.6%) were hit.

Health care giant and Dow component Johnson & Johnson (JNJ 56.75, -0.69) finished lower as investors weighed word that the company expects 2009 earnings to range between $4.45 and $4.55 per share after earning $4.55 per share last year. The consensus calls for $4.60 per share, underscoring the company's tepid outlook. Still, Johnson & Johnson reported fourth quarter earnings of $0.94 per share, which exceeded expectations by $0.02.DJ30 -332.13 NASDAQ -88.47 SP500 -44.90 NASDAQ Dec/Adv/Vol 2350/362/2.02 bln NYSE Dec/Adv/Vol 2785/321/1.72 bln
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Ghost Dog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-20-09 05:48 PM
Response to Reply #100
101. U.S. Stocks Slide in Dow Average’s Worst Inauguration Day Drop
Jan. 20 (Bloomberg) -- U.S. stocks sank, sending the Dow Jones Industrial Average to its worst Inauguration Day decline, as speculation banks must raise more capital sent financial shares to an almost 14-year low.

State Street Corp., the largest money manager for institutions, tumbled 59 percent after unrealized bond losses almost doubled. Wells Fargo & Co. and Bank of America Corp. slumped more than 23 percent on an analyst’s prediction that they’ll need to take steps to shore up their balance sheets. The Dow’s 4 percent slide was the most on an Inauguration Day in the measure’s 112-year history, according to data compiled by Bloomberg and the Stock Trader’s Almanac.

“All the banks are going to have to recapitalize,” said Greg Woodard, portfolio strategist at Manning & Napier Advisors Inc., which manages $16 billion in Fairport, New York. “That’s not done. That’s in front of them, and we don’t want to try to get in front of that trade.”

The S&P 500 plunged 5.3 percent to 805.22. The S&P 500 Financials Index fell 17 percent to below its lowest closing level since March 1995 as concern European banks need more capital also weighed on the group. The Dow average slid 332.13 points to 7,949.09. Both the Dow and S&P 500 retreated to two- month lows.

...

U.S. financial losses from the credit crisis may reach $3.6 trillion, according to New York University Professor Nouriel Roubini, who predicted last year’s economic and stock-market meltdowns.

“If that’s true, it means the U.S. banking system is effectively insolvent because it starts with a capital of $1.4 trillion,” Roubini said at a conference in Dubai today. “This is a systemic banking crisis.”

Europe’s Dow Jones Stoxx 600 Index retreated 2.1 percent today, led by banks and technology companies. It fell almost 2 percent yesterday after Royal Bank of Scotland Group Plc forecast the biggest-ever loss by a U.K. company. The MSCI Asia Pacific Index retreated 2.1 percent today.

...

Treasuries fell for a second day on speculation Obama will sell record amounts of debt to battle the recession. The dollar strengthened for a second day against the euro.

State Street lost $21.46 to $14.89 for the biggest drop in the S&P 500 and the stock’s steepest tumble since at least 1984. Unrealized losses on fixed-income investments rose to $6.3 billion at Dec. 31 from $3.3 billion at Sept. 30, the company said. Unrealized losses on assets held in conduits increased to $3.6 billion from $2.2 billion.

Bank of New York Mellon Corp., the world’s largest custodian of financial assets, fell 17 percent to $19, its lowest closing price since 1997.

Financials Tumble

Financial companies posted the biggest drop among the S&P 500’s 10 main industry groups as all 81 shares fell.

Wells Fargo, the largest bank on the U.S. West Coast, slid 24 percent to $14.23. Friedman Billings Ramsey Group Inc. analyst Paul Miller lowered his earnings estimates and price target, in addition to predicting a dividend cut.

Bank of America, the biggest U.S. lender by assets, fell the most in the Dow average, sliding 29 percent to $5.10. FBR’s Miller estimated Bank of America needs at least $80 billion of additional capital.

...

Regions Financial Corp. fell 24 percent to an almost 24- year low of $4.60 after reporting a record fourth-quarter loss. JPMorgan Chase & Co. lost 21 percent to $18.09, the lowest since October 2002.

Obama’s advisers are considering options for dealing with troubled assets still clogging banks’ balance sheets, according to people familiar with the matter. Among alternatives: setting up a government-backed “bad” or “aggregator” bank to hold the securities, or leaving the assets on banks’ books and providing a government guarantee.

...

Alcoa Inc., the largest U.S. aluminum producer, sank 11 percent to $8.35. Aluminum declined for the seventh straight day in London on speculation that demand will weaken as the housing slump worsens.

/... http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aOYw.awwsNSg&refer=worldwide
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catzies Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-20-09 07:58 PM
Response to Original message
105. Was I the only who wondered if Wall Street collectively freaked out when they heard this?
(taken from PRESIDENT OBAMA'S transcript today):

The question we ask today is not whether our government is too big or too
small, but whether it works, whether it helps families find jobs at a decent
wage, care they can afford, a retirement that is dignified.
Where the answer is yes, we intend to move forward. Where the answer is no,
programs will end.
And those of us who manage the public's knowledge will be held to account, to
spend wisely, reform bad habits, and do our business in the light of day,
because only then can we restore the vital trust between a people and their
government.
Nor is the question before us whether the market is a force for good or ill. Its
power to generate wealth and expand freedom is unmatched.
But this crisis has reminded us that without a watchful eye, the market can spin
out of control. The nation cannot prosper long when it favors only the
prosperous.


I'm guessing that's where he was in his speech when the Dow fell on a cliff between noon and 1 PM.

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