Relative calm descends on Gaza

[Scurrilous]

Source: Al Jazeera

<snip>

"Gazans have woken to a relatively quiet day as the Israeli assault on the territory entered its 21st day.

Explosions were still heard, with Israeli officials saying they had struck 40 "targets" before dawn on Friday.

Since Israel started its bombardment of Gaza, 1,133 Palestinians have been killed and more than 5,200 wounded, according to Gaza medics.

At least 355 children are among the dead.

Israel says 10 Israeli soldiers and three civilians have been killed in the same period, and an Israeli government spokesman indicated that the end of the three-week-old offensive may be close."

Read more: http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middleeast/2009/01/20091166560850865.html

---

Israel: Gaza offensive may be near 'final act'

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/jan/17/gaza-israel-attacks-ceasefire

Diplomatic moves to achieve ceasefire follow death of Hamas interior minister and attack on UN compound

<snip>

"Israel said today its Gaza offensive could be "in the final act" as the UN secretary general Ban Ki-moon said a ceasefire was "very close".

The Israeli envoy Amos Gilad arrived in Cairo this morning for the second day in a row to seek clarifications and express Israeli views about the latest Egyptian proposal for a ceasefire.

After a meeting last night between Israel's leaders, the foreign minister, Tzipi Livni, flew to Washington this morning to finalise an accord aimed at delivering Israel's key condition for a ceasefire: preventing Hamas from rearming.

Today's diplomatic manoeuvres follow reports that Hamas told Egypt, which is brokering the negotiations, that it would agree a year-long renewable ceasefire in Gaza if Israel pulled out its forces within seven days and reopened border crossings immediately.

"Hopefully we're in the final act," said Mark Regev, spokesman for the prime minister, Ehud Olmert, this morning. Briefings by the envoys working in Washington and Cairo could be followed by swift decisions by the security cabinet, he added."

[seemslikeadream]

1. .....

[Scurrilous]

2. Gaza City voices: Pressure eases

Palestinians across Gaza City describe a welcome the easing in conditions after intense fighting between Israeli soldiers and Palestinian fighters on Thursday.

ABIR, in Tel al-Hawa district

"The Israeli tanks have gone, but the streets are destroyed.

I look out of my window and I see big holes in the road and we can still see and smell the smoke rising.

The electricity cables are pulled down. The streets are empty because so many people left yesterday. A few are coming back very cautiously to collect some things, but they leave straightaway.

I can see the Quds hospital from my window. We were going to take shelter there yesterday, but we changed our minds at the last minute because we were scared to go out.

There was a tank outside the hospital yesterday, but it's not here now.

Because nearly everyone we know left the area, they are now all ringing me to see if they can come back."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7832813.stm

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

3. I predict it will end

on or about January 20--at least until Israel has had time to test the mettle of Obama.

[mwb970]

4. The short-term problem may end then.

The overall problem will end only when every single person in the Middle East, on all sides, is dead. Barring that, they will fight forever. I'm sure of it.

[Barack_America]

5. Just as it was predicted. End it and hope that the inauguration distracts everyone...

Once the press are let in.

I, however, will not be distracted.

[maddezmom]

6. Israel envoy leaves Cairo without formal truce deal

CAIRO, Jan 16, 2009 (AFP) - Israeli defence official Amos Gilad left Cairo on Friday after the latest round of talks on Egypt's proposal for a truce in the Jewish state's conflict with Hamas, with a diplomatic source saying there was still no formal agreement on a truce.

"There will be a slackening in negotiations until Saturday or Sunday," said the diplomatic source, who is close to the negotiations. "There is no formal agreement."

Gilad met Egyptian intelligence chief and chief mediator Omar Suleiman to tell him that the Jewish state wants an open-ended Gaza truce and will only agree to Palestinian Authority forces on the enclave's border with Egypt.

http://www.zawya.com/Story.cfm/sidANA20090116T130001ZFQY46/Israel%20envoy%20leaves%20Cairo%20without%20formal%20truce%20deal

full article here in French:
http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=fr&u=http://www.lemonde.fr/&sa=X&oi=translate&resnum=1&ct=result&prev=/search%3Fq%3DLemonde%26hl%3Den%26rls%3DDGUS,DGUS:2006-26,DGUS:en

[maddezmom]

7. Hamas says will not accept Israel ceasefire demands

DOHA, Jan 16 (Reuters) - Hamas said on Friday it would not accept Israeli conditions for a ceasefire and would continue to fight until Israel's offensive in the Gaza Strip ends.

Khaled Meshaal, leader of the Palestinian Islamist group, called on leaders at the opening of an emergency meeting on Gaza in Doha to cut all ties with the Jewish state.

The meeting in Qatar conflicted with another meeting by Arab foreign ministers in Kuwait to discuss the three-week-old Israeli offensive that has highlighted deep splits in the Arab world.

more:http://uk.reuters.com/article/middleeastCrisis/idUKLG462043

[Scurrilous]

8. Progress made in ceasefire talks

Cabinet to debate Egyptian initiative by which Israel will declare unilateral ceasefire while forces remain in Gaza; defense officials expect Hamas to cease its fire under these circumstances but warn that if it doesn't, IDF will respond

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3657364,00.html

<snip>

"Israel announced Friday that "significant progress" had been achieved in talks in Cairo on a materializing ceasefire in Gaza.

The cabinet is set to convene Saturday evening to discuss the Egyptian initiative, by which Israel will announce a unilateral ceasefire while forces remain inside the Gaza Strip.

Defense officials said they expect Hamas will also cease its fire under these circumstances. During a briefing of the limited cabinet, the officials said that if the organization continued its fire, Israel would retaliate and the fighting would continue.

Amos Gilad, the head of the Defense Ministry's Diplomatic-Security Bureau, and Shalom Turgeman, the prime minister's diplomatic advisor, returned from a Cairo meeting with Omar Suleiman, Egypt's chief of intelligence, in which they discussed the subject of arms smuggling into Gaza from Egypt.

Israel had not been satisfied with Egypt's general proposals, stated to Amos Gilad on Thursday. Turgeman and Gilad returned to Cairo on Friday in order to receive details on how Egypt planned to stop arms smuggling along the Philadelphi route.

Upon returning, the two briefed Prime Minister Ehud Olmert and Defense Minister Ehud Barak. Following the briefing a statement was released saying that "during talks with Egypt's chief of intelligence, there was significant progress."

The statement hints at Israel's acceptance of the Egyptian ceasefire plan in Gaza, which calls for a short-term truce until Israel withdraws its forces from the Strip. Later stages of the proposal call for hearings on details such as the opening of the crossings between Israel and Gaza."

[Veruca Salt]

9. This is terrible...

The whole thing. I don't have much knowledge on the history of the conflict but from the little I do know, is that at one point in time the whole area was Palestine where both groups lived together until after WW2. End one war and create a situation where another one is fresh in the making, only this one lasts forever.

Hell, it's the people who were thrown out of their homes and land versus the people who were given the land and homes of those thrown out - neither will back down. I know that if I was in either position I would do the same. And yes, I can see someone who now lives on property that belongs rightfully to someone else defending their new found land even though logically it was never theirs to begin with. I also would gladly fight to the death to regain a homestead that was in my family for generations and taken from me. As I said, the whole situation is terrible.

[The Stranger]

10. Trying to end their campaign of murder before the new President is sworn in.

[kpete]

11. Hamas: We will not accept Israel cease-fire demands

Source: Haaretz

Last update - 17:26 16/01/2009
Hamas: We will not accept Israel cease-fire demands
By Barak Ravid, Haaretz Correspondent, and News Agencies

Hamas will not accept Israeli conditions for a cease-fire in Gaza and would continue armed resistance until the offensive ends, Khaled Meshal, the leader of the Palestinian Islamist group, said on Friday.

Speaking at the opening of an emergency meeting on Gaza in Doha, Meshal called on the leaders present to cut all ties with Israel.

Meshal joined Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad in making the surprise appearance at the summit, aiming to show their weight in diplomatic efforts surrounding the Gaza crisis.

Hamas is set to send a delegation to Cairo later on Friday to discuss Egyptian efforts to mediate a cease-fire in Gaza, a Hamas official told Al Jazeera television.

Read more: http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1056134.html

[aquart]

12. Oh, please. Like they were planning to stick to the agreement anyway.

I think we're all impressed by their courage and determination.

[redqueen]

13. The original headline: "Report: Hamas agrees to ceasefire in Gaza"

It was changed a few hours later.

[Chulanowa]

14. Bad title, doesn't reflect the article

If it did it would be "Israel and Hamas blather pointlessly at each other" - neither side is agreeing to each other's terms on this one. Israel doesn't want to open crossings and doesn't want a timeline on the truce (and "a senior Israeli source" should take a shovel and dig his head out of his ass, since his country fucked up the last cease-fire), while Hamas wants open crossings and obviously doesn't trust Israel any farther than it can throw Ariel Sharon.

[Porschenut1066]

18. Well said Sir!

[WriteDown]

15. Morons...

Hamas is upset because Israel doesn't want a closed time limit? Seriously?

[Chulanowa]

19. Morons...

Israel is upset because Hamas doesn't want the crossings to stay closed indefinitely? Seriously?

[Rebubula]

16. Well..

...of course they will not accept a ceasefire. That is not their goal.

This will not end until one of the states ends.

Sad, but true.

[GoesTo11]

17. Hamas wants to all become martyrs

This decision will help them achieve their objective.

[Porschenut1066]

20. Hamas wants "Fairness" for their people and will not be dictated

to by the Neocon occupation and aggressors. The Israelis have never once kept their word on any agreement with the Palestinians. The people in charge of Israel are Neocons. Many of the people in charge of this Administration hold dual citizenship with Israel. The Neocons in both Governments believe that Israel must maintain an external enemy to keep internal problems from getting out of control and destroying the country from the inside out. Any peace with the Palestinians would for the Neocons spell the end of Israel. This is only their opinion but they really feel that it is the case and so will act exactly as they have to "protect Israel" against the peace that they believe will destroy them. Then on top of that there are the Zionists who for all practical purposes are Neocons under a different banner who want a "Greater Israel" that includes all of the Palestinian land and Jordon and south Lebanon, and more. So they don't want to have a peace with the Palestinians since that would impinge on their "greater Israel" dream.

If you know about the Neocon philosophy it fits very well with the Philosophy of the Germans of the 1930's, The Zionists wrote to the German Government in 1941 and suggested an alliance with the Germans. (The Stern gang)

The Neocons do not represent the views of most Americans nor do they represent the Views of most Israeli's but they have dug themselves in so deep into our Media that if one did not know people from those countries one might get the impression that they do represent us. They have developed a way to silence people. In America it is to accuse them of being antisemitic (even if your a Jew)
and in Israel by saying they are disloyal and supporters of the enemy.

Even through all of this intimidation we still need to stand up and be counted and restore the humanity that we still have. We need to show that this small group of extremists do not represent us, anymore than extremists anywhere fully represent the total population.

[GoesTo11]

21. Well, either way they will have a lot more martyrs if they refuse a ceasefire

I just think that at this point, Hamas is basically choosing suicide. Or more accurately, Hamas in Damascus is ordering Hamas in Gaza on a massive suicide mission. It seems militarily that Hamas is broken so if they keep fighting all they will do is die. I am not offering an opinion on whether or not that is a good idea from their perspective - they probably expect this will help the cause in the long term.

And yes, I do recall the portion in the Hamas charter about fairness.

[Porschenut1066]

23. Yes, it does seem that the Hamas in Gaza are more flexible about

the "Charter" they have said that they would be willing to modify it to remove certain parts that are objected to, while I believe the "leadership" in Damascus are less than willing to talk about it. It seems that the realities of governing probably has made the Gaza Hamas more willing to negotiate if they see any prospect of getting a livable peace. Free trade, open borders, protection from arbitrary attack and assassinations. Whereas the ones in Damascus does not have to experience the consequence of their actions and proclamations.

As to the resistance against the occupying power that right is enshrined in the UN Charter. Would we have said to the French resistance of the second world war, "Well you might as well give up since the Germans have said that for every German Solder killed by them will lead to the deaths of 100 Frenchmen" I use that as an example since the Neocons use very similar language. The Germans considered the French Resistance as Terrorists.

Would we have said to George Washington to "stop fighting the most powerful country in the world" because lots of his fighters would get killed?

Would we have encouraged the British to give up during the Battle of Britain because the Germans outnumbered them, and it would be better to live under a German Occupation rather than risk the lives of the British Military no matter how badly prepared or armed they were.

Hamas has a military and uniforms and almost nothing to stand up to one of the mightiest army's in the world. But when the Hamas Military see this indiscriminate attack that Israel knows will without doubt kill civilians, they as any military will, try to defend the people of the area, against the sort of atrocities that the Israeli have been doing such as telling Palestinians to move to a certain building and then shelling that building killing those inside and as the survivors run away shoot them in the back even if they are carrying white flags of surrender.

Now I am not saying that Hamas does not carry some blame also. During the ceasefire the amount of rockets being fired at Israel went from 145 per month to 3 homemade rockets per month not fired by Hamas as such but by other groups making Homemade rockets. Hamas was by the way arresting people who were firing these homemade rockets. Hamas called off the cease fire for the following reasons.
Israel did not open the Borders as they promised, in fact they sealed them. Israel cut water, gas, electricity and fuel. and also food imports. (remember that the Palestinians are surrounded by barbwire fences and cannot just walk to a store to buy food)
Israel then assassinated 6 Hamas members and that was the last straw for Hamas they called off the Ceasefire and started the rocket fire again. Once the rocket fire started again, and an election was coming up Israel launched this attack. (which had been planned in June 2008) I understand that this may have been the basis upon which the Republicans had claimed that Obama would be tested early in his presidency.

Anyway, under the UN Charter that Israel is a signatory to it states that retaliation of some aggression must be proportionate. In other words if a country attacks you and kills one or two people you cant go in and kill 1000 of the other country's citizens. Nor can you destroy civilian property, nor can you deny medical care, nor can you deny sufficient food and water to the civilian population. Nor can you destroy a civilian home just because a Resistance fighter fired from that location. Nor can you impose collective punishment on the civilian population. Nor can you shoot fleeing civilian refugees. Nor can you fire at Journalists, nor can you fire shells at the UN compounds, nor can you deliberately destroy schools or churches. And so it goes on listing basically everything that the IDF is doing in Gaza as illegal. Of course we must remember that the Neocons believe themselves to be above the law so those sorts of rules don't apply to them just to the ignorant masses. With Neocons running both the USA and Israel is it any wonder that they behave like this.

[Name removed]

22. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Porschenut1066]

24. Where else in the USA can one say what is actually happening

in any conflict involving Israel than here at DU.
I am an avid supporter of Israel just not of the Neocons that are currently controlling it.

[GoesTo11]

25. Like many here, I call 'em as I see 'em

A lot of progressives became neocons specifically because of the way the debate on the left goes when it comes to I/P.

I'd rather not go that route. I'm just a progressive who also has no love lost for Hamas.

[EFerrari]

26. Don't look now.

[coruscate]

27. I hope they get some peace soon

This war and illegal occupation is an atrocity.