Oregon church to stop signing marriage licenses

[Newsjock]

Source: Associated Press

ASHLAND, Ore. (AP) -- The clergy at one Ashland church are refusing to sign marriage licenses until same-sex couples can legally tie the knot.

The Rev. Pam Shepherd and three retired clergy members who attend the Congregational United Church of Christ will still perform weddings. For the license, however, couples will have to see a judge or justice of the peace.

Shepherd told the Ashland Daily Tidings she made the decision after realizing that by signing the licenses she was inadvertently giving her approval to discrimination.

"Every time I sign a license, it's like I'm saying, 'OK,' but it's not OK," she said.

Read more: http://washblade.com/thelatest/thelatest.cfm?blog_id=23321

[dflprincess]

1. I knew there had to be a UCC minister who would have been a

better choice to give the invocation at the inaugural.

[Critters2]

3. Damn near any UCC minister would've been a better choice! nt

[Delphinus]

14. Or a Unitarian Universalist minister.

Not that *all* think they're actually part of an organized religion, but ...

[dflprincess]

20. True.

I think I originally thought UCC because that is the denomination Obama has belonged to.

[roguevalley]

26. I went to college in Ashland and lived eighteen miles from it all

my life. That town is the greatest.

[Critters2]

2. I know other UCC clergy moving in this direction. I'm seriously considering it myself.

It'll take a lot of work to get my church board to understand it, I think. But it seems like the appropriate thing to do, imo. I'm glad to see other UCCs doing this!

[BanzaiBonnie]

4. What a great idea

Let's withdraw our support for all marriages.

[Critters2]

5. Not withdrawing support. Just separating church and state.

There's no reason why clergy should carry out this state function for anyone. But if we can't choose to do it for all couples we marry, why should we do it for any?

[exboyfil]

13. I agree totally - Churches should not sanction state marriages

Would a solution be that we no longer call marriages "marriages" but civil unions between any two consenting adults who are not currently in a civil union?

Instead of applying for a marriage license which gets signed later at a ceremony, the process of application can become the civil union itself. If you want a religious ceremony of your choice later, then that is your business.

Religious bodies should be free to recognize or not recognize any sort of union/marriage that they please.

Civil unions will function just like marriages currently with the same inheritence protections, tax implications, divorce laws, etc.

A thought experiment to show how the laws may need to be rethought:

A couple with two children gets a divorce from a civil union when they are in their 60s or later. They agree to split the estate 50/50.

Each parent marries one of the children. They both die but the estate which has been acquired passes to the children without any inheritence tax implications (through spousal inheritence).

[timtom]

19. This is precisely what my response would be,

were I to respond...oh, wait. I AM responding.

[sandnsea]

8. That isn't what she's doing

She's saying her right to practice her religion is being infringed on, she just hasn't thought it through to that extent. (I hadn't either until a DUer brought it up the other day.) But she will, soon.

[Veruca Salt]

17. Correct,

UCC churches will marry same sex couples and because at the federal level marriage is restricted to heterosexual couples this is both an infringement of the UCC's religious practices as well as giving some churches additional special rights by allowing only certain marriages to be recognized.

[ldf]

23. that would be the quickest way to gain equality

if all opposite sex couples who were engaged, and supported marriage equality, started announcing that none would marry until all had the same right to marriage as they have, it would change in a heartbeat.

but there is talking the talk, versus walking the walk...

the FIRST ones that should take that stand should be those of celebrity. that could at least get the movement started.

so far, i have heard of none, celebrity or not, taking that stand.

again, talk versus walk.

of course, i realize that is a huge sacrifice to ask of our straight brethren and sistren.... (/sarcasm)

[LostinVA]

25. Yes, because that is what the Reverend in the OP and posters are saying

:eyes:

[Veritas_et_Aequitas]

6. Good for her.

I wish more progressive clergy would be more active in this arena.

[sandnsea]

7. There's the first amendment case

They need to sue because their religious freedom is being infringed on. I will email or call them tomorrow.

[Critters2]

9. Could you say more about this? TIA nt

[sandnsea]

11. I can't find the thread

and I have a terrible memory. I know H20Man was in there. We were talking about the fact that preventing churches, like the UCC and I guess the Reformed Jewish, from marrying gays was a violation of their civil rights. Somebody looked up the Mormon Law for me, and the basis was language about harming society. That can still be argued with polygamy, but not gay marriage since so many of the past laws have already been overturned. Since this UCC minister has taken this stand, I figure she's a good one to go forward with a lawsuit, once she recognizes her civil rights to practice her religion are being violated. I figured I'd call her because I'm just a few hours away and maybe it would sound more encouraging.

[Critters2]

12. Interesting. Thanks. If she does sue, I hope she contacts the national offices

in Cleveland, so they can keep the rest of us informed as to how the case goes.

[MessiahRp]

10. It's too bad all religious people didn't have the tolerance and love of the UCC

My gf is catholic and has total wingnut parents who wouldn't understand the teachings of Christ if it bit them in the ass. Her Mom's brother is gay and while they say they love him they don't believe he deserves the equal right of marriage. I don't go to church or believe in religion but my gf does so we've decided when we get married we're getting married in a UCC Church and having the pastor speak about marriage equality for all in our service... with her uncle in attendance and her parents in the front row.

Yes it's our special moment but we feel for her Uncle that he deserves to hear that after years of having his entire family treat him as if he were sick or not normal or something.

Rp

[Veruca Salt]

18. That's excellent!

And as a side note, before Loving vs Virginia it was churches who took a stand (which I'm positive some of their members did not like):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loving_v._Virginia#Facts

In 1966, the Presbyterian Church took a strong stand stating that they do not condemn or prohibit interracial marriages. The church found "no theological grounds for condemning or prohibiting marriage between consenting adults merely because of racial origin".<4> In that same year, the Unitarian Universalist Association declared that "laws which prohibit, inhibit or hamper marriage or cohabitation between persons because of different races, religions, or national origins should be nullified or repealed."<5> Months before the Supreme Court ruling on Loving v. Virginia the Roman Catholic Church joined the movement, supporting interracial couples in their struggle for recognition of their right to marriage.

I think that the more the issue get coverage the more progress will be made. I hadn't realized some UCC churches had been stopping signing of gov marriage contracts in protest for a while until I did more research.

[Bluenorthwest]

15. Rev Pam knows right from wrong

and she is in one of the best towns in the country! It is so great to be able to praise a relgious person instead of castigate them!
The last couple of weeks, all about swearing oaths and praying in public. Jesus said not to swear any oath at all, and that anything more than 'yes' or 'no' comes from -his words-'the evil one'. Same guy Jesus also said never pray in public-his words "like the hypocrites do". And yet all I hear about are how they got to honor Jesus by swearing a Christed-up oath and having public prayer.
The man did have teachings, but they are universally ignored by those who claim his name.
Only hypocrites pray in public. Any oath past 'yes' comes from evil. What kind of people turn those teachings into the slanders and divisions we see today?

I find the level of disconnect and ego drive among the 'faith' crowd to be really frightening, and honestly suprising.

[Veruca Salt]

16. From the UCC's site news:

http://www.ucc.org/news/minneapolis-church.html

Seems to be the church has been doing it for a while but we don't hear any of it from the MSM. I hope this news spreads!

[friendly_iconoclast]

21. Good for Reverend Pam! More churches should do the same

Ever notice how fundies rail against government, but are happy to be it's agent when it comes to marriage?

[JerseygirlCT]

22. I've heard from clergy that they would dearly love to be out of the

state-sanctioned marrying business.

This is a good step, I think. Hard on those who were hoping to be married in that church, but then again, it's hard on those who cannot be married there, period.

[LostinVA]

24. Good for her!

I wish all UCC ministers and congregants felt like this.

[Habibi]

27. The pastors at my UU church here in Rochester, NY

have done the same.