Microsoft planning big layoffs for January?

[Pale Blue Dot]

Source: CNET

Mark January 15 in your calendar: Rumors of layoffs at Microsoft peg that as the day the bad news will come.

The latest to report on the possibility of layoffs at the software giant is the blog Fudzilla, which puts the number of job cuts at 15,000, or nearly 17 percent of Microsoft's worldwide operations. The January 15 date is a week before Microsoft's second-quarter earnings report, scheduled for January 22.

Microsoft also has a briefing for financial analysts planned for January 8 at the Consumer Electronics Show in Las Vegas, with the headliner listed as Robbie Bach, president of the entertainment and devices division.

Those purported layoff numbers are up from earlier rumors, which suggested that 10 percent of the company's employees would lose their jobs.

Fudzilla sees the biggest hit coming for the MSN unit, where Yusuf Mehdi recently took over as marketing chief while the company continued to look for an executive to run its overall online services group:

Read more: http://news.cnet.com/8301-10805_3-10130165-75.html

[Donnachaidh]

1. Now where is Bill Gates's philanthropical interests now?

I guess he'd rather give money to places that will give him the best PR boost. And at the same time cut all those *little people* who actually NEED him to give THEM a break isn't fashionable.

[mrdmk]

4. Philanthropical Interests Create Tax Breaks and Good Public Relations, Whereas

employees cost money. Microsoft, like any other big corporation is out to make money. The other side of the coin is to raise money from Wall Street and other investors. Vista as been a nightmare, it did not generate the revenue expected and certainly did not make for good public relations.

Right now Microsoft is hedging the bottom line for February.

[WriteDown]

7. Your post would make more sense. if Bill Gates was still

running MS. I don't think he's even an executive anymore.

[Lifetimedem]

2. You can bet

They will not lay off the cheap imported labor or the out sourced labor.

Gates forgets who made him rich

[EconomicLiberal]

3. Gates doesn't run Microsoft anymore. n/t

[Spinzonner]

5. Well, he's still Chairman

it's not as though he has no influence or control

[WriteDown]

8. But what kind of chaiman?

He's not even an exec anymore.

[Lifetimedem]

34. The kind that appears before congress

and asks for unlimited H1 Visas

[Donnachaidh]

25. you really think that egomaniacal little dweeb can stay out of it?

If you do, I have this land in Florida you might want to buy. :sarcasm:

[WriteDown]

38. Apparently, you are good friends with Mr. Gates....

Any chance of you getting some free hardware or software and sending it to DU members? :eyes:

[Tesha]

48. We'd probably end up getting a shipload of 30GB Zunes! (NT)

[antimatter98]

6. They will rehire but only cheap foreign H1B people.. n/t

[Grinchie]

15. They have been outsourcing for years

How else can you explain the utter failure of Windows Vista at release?

In fact, Microsoft recently acquiesed and delayed the so called end of life of Windows XP until at least May of 2009, mnostly in part because people demand it, refuse to upgrade to Vista which still does not support the hundreds of thousands of custom devices used in scientific, industrial and other control applications. I also don't need new and improved software that maintains a database of what devices, software and applications that I use, and then reports back to Microsoft with that data. You don't think Microsoft rolled over to the Bush Administration and the Patriot Act when it came to probing easily exploited holes in the OS? They can shut us all down in a second if they saw the need.

The trouble is that writing device drivers is the grungiest type of software that there is, taking specialized skills and a very specialized form of understanding to execute properly. Sadly, most of the Driver writers have moved on and become Farmers, Real Estate Agents, Mortgage Brokers, or Wall Street tycoons, and have no intent on returning to an idustry that can disappear overnight to some sweatshop in Mumbai.

Big business does not care if the workers read or comprehend design documents, or whether they care one iota for Quality assurance or established testing routines. No mater how hard Microsoft tries to make software engineering easy enough for unskilled labor, the overall complexity demand competent review and removal of redundant, conflicting code written by all of these different shops with the hope that they integrate seamlessly without interfering with each other.

They (MSFT) wan't to make software like a jigsaw puzzle, when in reality it is like a living organism that gets sick and less than optimal when things go wrong. They'd like to make it so unskilled labor can write good software, but they don't take into account the interdependecies that need to be recognized in order to do it right.

Unfortunately, this type of expansive thinking usually results in the realization that we overly complicate things which results in less time to enjoy life. You see how disparate events in Politic, Industry, Economy work against our freedom to enjoy life, and enslave us in the rat race, ever struggling to "Get Ahead", when in reality we are standing still, or moving backwards.

Too many specialists, too few generalists. People may have heard the phrase "Jack of all trades, Master of none". I have come to the conclusion that this is propaganda used to promote further specialization of an individuals thought process, resulting in someone that can be classified and pigeon holed neatly into Corporate society. Look at some of the great inventors of the past 200 years, and you can see that they had a wide variety of knowledge, and were able to use observation from those different fields to develop connections that ultimately led to amazing discoveries.

Leonardo DaVinci, Benjamin Franklin, Nikola Tesla, Thomas Edison, and hundreds of others were well versed in Liberal Arts, something that has all but disappeared in todays Educational system.

[BelgianMadCow]

17. ...when in reality, we are standing still or moving backwards...

exactly how I feel. Thanks for you antiratrace post. Trying to quit isn't easy.

[Johnny Noshoes]

19. "delayed the so called end of life of Windows XP until at least May of 2009"

Well the machine I'm using to read and post here on DU is a dual boot PC. I'm running Ubuntu right now and it also has XP Home. If they do dump support for XP I'll just use my second Windows box, which I got for free from a co-worker, for GFX and video editing and never connect to the net via Windows ever again. I'll just make the dual boot a full blown Linux box - a lot less headaches and a lot more fun.

[silverojo]

27. Same here

I'm getting tired of having to worry about upgrading the operating system to the tune of hundreds of dollars every time.

If I didn't want to use video editing software or play games, I wouldn't mess with Windows at all.

[merwin]

29. What headaches have you had with Vista? I want to see if I can resolve them.

Most of the end user's headaches in Vista have a very easy solution.

[Johnny Noshoes]

33. I haven't tried Vista

I just meant that rather than put up with MS screwy software I'll stick with XP Home, which hasn't given me any trouble for more than five years use, until they don't update it anymore and then make Ubuntu Linux the only OS on one box and WinXp Pro on the other, which I won't connect to the net, for gfx and video work.

[merwin]

40. If you're not going to connect to the net, just make sure not to put any discs or USB drives

into it that you didn't personally make yourself. The most common sources of trojans... web/e-mail downloads (most common), browser exploits (less common), and trojans transferred from a disc/usb drive by accident.

Actual viruses that spread by themselves are rare these days, and are almost not possible with Vista or a properly set up XP machine.

[Locrian]

20. well said Grinchie

It's the same in aerospace - I see it happening on a daily basis. Our mgmt has said straight out that there is no more US hiring. EVERYTHING will be India/China/Mexico.

[merwin]

28. Vista is based on Windows Server 2003 codebase. XP was based on Windows 2000.

That and extra security measures in the operating system caused many software applications to be changed, and lots of hardware drivers to also be changed because of different methods of gaining direct access to hardware. If you need that support because the company that made the hardware is out of business or hasn't updated, then fine.

But, as far as business operations go, Vista (and Server 2008 which is the same codebase as Vista) is a huge leap forward in management and security. Some of the companies that my business does IT management for are in the process of rolling out Vista, and when someone does something stupid and runs a trojan, it fucks their system up to the point that it has to be re-installed. Vista solved that with UAC (although annoying to some people, is a good security measure... needs to be revised a bit though). When a Vista computer gets a trojan, it's a simple run of spybot and it's gone for good. Hasn't done any damage to any system files, because it couldn't access them.

So, by all means, if you have a software or hardware device that won't work under Vista, then stick with XP. But corporations who run Vista have much less issues than with XP.

I hated Vista when it came out because it wasn't like XP and it was harder to initially find out how to do specific things. But most every tweak that can be done in XP can be done in Vista. And as far as system resources go, if you don't want it to be a hog, turn off or tweak services like Windows Search and Aero.

Vista's failure is primarily due to poor marketing of the benefits to the IT Administrators.

[Deja Q]

43. Also true

I will admit Vista has been far more stable...

But I've used server 2003. It's nowhere a RAM or hard drive PIG as Vista is.

Even a default install of Server 2008 uses fewer resources than Vista. (usually the server needs more resources...)

And I know companies not upgrading to vista because of insane system requirements and not caring about its benefits, some of which genuinely are nice.

(it's a mixed bag and ambivalence is allowed too.)

[merwin]

47. the funny thing is, server 2008 is just vista sp1 with server functionality added.

you can tweak vista to be almost as lightweight as xp, but you lose all of the new functionality that vista adds.

you can also turn server 2008 into basically vista by enabling some of the features that are off by default, such as aero.

windows 7 is going to have vast kernel improvements, as well as streamlining those new vista features to use less resources... and also possibly release a version without bells and whistles for those with older PCs.

by that time, driver and software support will have caught up and be fully compatible.

to note, the same compatibility arguments were made when xp came out regarding driver support and dos compatibillity. any time you make significant changes to the architecture it takes some time for developers to catch up. the problem here was simply bad marketing.

[eridani]

31. Very good. This should be an OP n/t

[Celebration]

37. I completely concur

The overspecialization is in every single industry--medicine, etc. We need more Renaissance types.

Did you know someone a few years ago figured out a new way to do an operation by looking at DaVinci drawings? I forget the details.......

[Dont_Bogart_the_Pretzel]

39. What about Linux?

There are still programmers out their, just not programming Windows software anymore.

[Deja Q]

45. I recall the platform wars of the 80s/early 90s

Everybody went to Microsoft because of its increasing user base.

The real gem of computers, our "hidden market", are in the applications.

Until big names like Adobe migrate to Linux, and keep in mind Adobe has nixed Mac products like Premiere or delaying advanced products for the Mac such as 64-bit photoshop, it'll be a while before they are convinced to go open source. Even then, depending on how they license, they may not attract people (if CS5, for hype's sake, is for linux, will the upgrade edition allow me to use my CS4 Windows 64-bit license? Or do I have to shell out the full $800 again because it's a new platform?)

[Deja Q]

42. I must agree.

Between XP and Vista, resource requirements skyrocketed, by a factor of 20. Not just 2 like they had in the past.

Even in service packs, some problems are just removed and not properly fixed.

64-bit vista has some niceties, but it's not problem-free.

Don't expect me to go to linux or mac, but don't expect me to upgrade again until things are properly fixed.

[Omaha Steve]

9. Microsoft was told this past Sunday to lay off 9,000

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=367x15834

[stopbush]

22. I heard that they already sent out 9,000 pink slips

but their employees' computers kept freezing and crashing when they tried to open the e-mail.

;)

[Grinchie]

30. OMG Thats funny!

Been there, done that.

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

10. No, this will be the work of The Monkey Boy himself...

The man for who coherence is a mere detail, Steve Ballmer, who proves every day he runs Microsoft, that why yes, he CAN fuck up an air sandwich, thank you!

[Phred42]

11. In THIS country - sure. He's completed new operations in China

traitorous miserable piece of shit.


Do the Chinese use/understand/recognize Leap Year? Think that had something to do with the ZUNE debacle?

dunno - just asking

:shrug:

[jmowreader]

12. No, not at all

I think that Microsoft no longer can cut clean code had something to do with the ZUNE debacle.

[OhioChick]

13. Bet the layoffs aren't going to be overseas. n/t

[Azlady]

23. You got that right! n/t

[tomreedtoon]

14. Vista was sure a great success, wasn't it?

And Gates is a true visionary. He only steals ideas from the best.

[BelgianMadCow]

16. nah, they lacked the vista for that

they can suck my xp.

Intrusive OS behaviour that could be undone under XP you no longer can under Vista. Buh-bye.

[L0oniX]

18. Gee so I guess they didn't need to come out with Vista after all.

Them horses asses force their new bull shit OS on us and then lay off people. Fuck Vista.

[ChromeFoundry]

21. Cuts won't come from Nigeria

Microsoft to empower 50,000 Nigerians with IT, outsourcing skills
Monday, 15 December 2008 00:21

Complete piece: http://www.businessdayonline.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1883:microsoft-to-empower-50000-nigerians-with-it-outsourcing-skills&catid=81:entrepreneur&Itemid=198

[Grinchie]

32. Thanks for the link -- Added to Favorites

It's nice to be able to take a glimpse at some other county's view of the world, and this site is pretty interesting.

Thanks.

Its amazing to see the dire predictions they have on the economic crisis in Nigeria, and it fits right in to the impoverished youths being harvested by Microsoft in regards to training.

I wonder how this will affect Cocoa production in the next decade...

[ihavenobias]

24. Let's hope it's not true. n/t

[spindrifter]

26. Supposedly most are overseas--EMA people and

temps.

[babylonsister]

35. We'll be seeing lots of this in the coming days., I'm afraid.

And in all industries. Sucks to be a worker bee just trying to get by. :(

[SeattleGirl]

36. My son-in-law told this to me today; he works for Microsoft, and since

he is a relatively new employee, he said he would not be surprised if he were one of the people laid off. Fortunately, he and my daughter have a fair amount of money set aside so that, combined with unemployment, would get them through for quite some time.

Sucks though.

[merwin]

41. It depends on the project he's assigned to.

If it's one of the growing ones, then he's probably safe. If it's one of the less popular ones, then maybe not.

A relative of mine got hired in the HD-DVD department of the XBOX division and a month later they killed off the department. However, they did transfer him to a different XBOX related department. They prefer to keep existing employees as much as possible. It'll probably come down to either downscaling entire departments and laying people off (which could very well happen)... but the people with multiple qualifications such as software developers will probably have the opportunity to move to a different department that is more profitable.

[Deja Q]

44. Thank you.

Perspective and other viewpoints are wonderful; if they are keeping existing employees over new ones, it shows they do care.

I just hope for the best... even MS downsizing and hoping any offshored staff can compensate...

[merwin]

46. I think they only offshore certain parts of the company, like customer support.

if i might ask, what division is he in?

the core divisions like windows, office, and xbox are ones that they rent likely to outsource, and have a high probability of being moved to a different department if his is downsized... definitely have him talk to his manager if it becomes more than a rumor and see if he can find a different position in the company that fits his qualifications.

contrary to popular belief, they treat their employees well... but also work them insane hours at times when product shipping time arrives.