Pope decries selfishness in economic crisis

[onehandle]

Source: AP

VATICAN CITY – Pope Benedict XVI warned in his Christmas message Thursday that the world was headed toward ruin if selfishness prevails over solidarity during tough economic times for rich and poor nations. Speaking from the central balcony of St. Peter's Basilica, Benedict said he was trying to inspire hope in the world.

"Brothers and sisters, all you who are listening to my words: this proclamation of hope — the heart of the Christmas message — is meant for all men and women." The traditional papal Christmas Day message "Urbi et Orbi" — Latin for "to the City and to the World" — usually covers the globe's hot spots, but this year Benedict also addressed the economic conditions worrying many across the planet amid near-daily news of layoffs, failing companies and people losing homes.

Benedict said his Christmas message applied to "wherever an increasingly uncertain future is regarded with apprehension, even in affluent nations." "In each of these places may the light of Christmas shine forth and encourage all people to do their part in a spirit of authentic solidarity," Benedict said. "If people look only to their own interests, our world will certainly fall apart."

Benedict said he hoped the light of Christmas would radiate to places where "the basics needed for survival are missing." Wearing a crimson mantle against a damp chill, Benedict told tens of thousands of people in St. Peter's Square that God's saving grace could "alone transform evil into good" and "change human hearts, making them oases of peace."

Read more: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081225/ap_on_re_eu/eu_vatican_christmas

[ixion]

1. oh, the irony

seriously... :eyes:

[Baby Snooks]

2. Just the wrong messenger...

The message is the correct one. Just delivered by the wrong messenger.

[hlthe2b]

5. Ya think?

Let them wear Prada!

[undeterred]

12. There's no place like home.

Theres' no place like home.

[ReadTomPaine]

67. That photo is a keeper!

In red no less. LOL!

[Deja Q]

32. If only this Pope wasn't defending pedophilia

He still has a point, but many cannot separate message from messenger. Half-understandable.

[defendandprotect]

38. The Vatican still teaches "Manifest Destiny" which is a philosophy of exploitation ---

of nature and even other human beings according to various myths of inferiority.

Rich Church/Poor People

God's saving grace could "alone transform evil into good" and "change human hearts, making them oases of peace."

God should start with Pope Benedict --!!!

[rhett o rick]

7. I say audacity. nm

[Deja Q]

34. The audacity of hope?

[rhett o rick]

54. What hope? Hope that he will use the Church's unlimited assests for human good? Not holding

my breath. Top dog managers are always "decrying" something. Rarely or never do they follow through.

[bemildred]

42. Chutzpah. nt

[Mari333]

3. I read somewhere that the Vatican makes

250 million dollars a yr. this was in 2003.
the irony, indeed.

[Ikonoklast]

4. His vestments cost more than my car.

He can go fuck himself, seriously, that Fascist asshat.

[Warpy]

8. Oh, hell, his robes cost more than my HOUSE

and everything he gazes upon is encrusted with gold, marble, and the paintings of dead old masters.

I honestly don't think such a man has much to tell me about poverty, although he does know quite a bit about selfishness.

[japple]

29. You're right, Warpy. Caption this:

[RubyDuby in GA]

62. "Its hard to hold the other one up. I'm only used to holding one arm up."

I will refer to him as the Nazi Pope until the day I die.

I'd be glad to share, but I'd like him to start first. Lead by example and all that...

[ima_sinnic]

6. you first, popey. show us how much you really care by donating the treasures you've plundered

to the world's poor. As the world's largest landowner, surely you can spare some for the needy?

hypocrite.

[Phred42]

9. The SAme Pope that thinks the HIGH Ground is condeming Gays?

cause that's what Jesus would do?

[AlbertCat]

10. ....said the Church....

...with a jewel encrusted statue of the Madonna in a pueblo of starving people.

[marmar]

11. He of the $15 billion fake country that straddles Rome?

He's certainly got a pair.

[izquierdista]

20. Straddles?

I'm pretty sure there are shopping malls in Rome that are larger than the Vatican.

[Hulk]

23. I'm afraid not.

And they certainly don't hold the wealth of Herr benedict and his "blessed court".

[defendandprotect]

39. All male, by the way . . .. a "nation" of males--!!!

[ananda]

13. What's with Pope Rat?

He's all over the place speaking out,
usually stupidly and Nazilike, on
everything.

This time, though, he actually got
something right.

Selfishness is a quality that has
morphed into a horror story here in
America.

[newburgh]

14. Mmmmm....where are the xtians defending this criminal?

sure is quiet today.

They must be celebrating xmas, just like the Iraqis now...

http://www.worldofchristmas.net/christmas-world/iraq.html

Xmas, the day of ironies...

[jwirr]

18. Some of us are here but not defending that ass.

[Patchuli]

27. Know the difference between Catholics and Christians?

I think you don't. Label much? Here's a former Catholic turned Christian who is celebrating Christmas, the birth of my Lord who decries this selfish hypocrite in pope wear. At the same time, I am decrying bigots who take every opportunity to take a poke at me and my faith. You know diddley shit of the difference between the Catholics and the Christians; that is obvious. Talk trash about Pope Rat all you want but leave us out of it. The pope doesn't speak for me.

[Book Lover]

36. So when I was a member of the Catholic Church, I wasn't a Christian?

News to me.

[Patchuli]

43. That's for you to decide

I decided I was not taught about Christ, I didn't hear about Christ. All I heard about was the stupid fucking Mother Church. So I guess what you gleaned or glean from your Catholic experience is up to you. For me, it was decidedly not Christian.

[Book Lover]

44. Thank you for your clarification

What you wrote read like a broad brush statement that Catholics are not Christians. Thanks for clarifying.

[Patchuli]

47. Spoken as a former Catholic,

Catholics are not Christian in the way that born-again Christians are. Sorry I can't explain it more clearly.

[Book Lover]

48. You're not the only sorry one (nm)

[Patchuli]

60. I have no idea what you mean by that

or, if I care.

[Book Lover]

61. Are you looking for offense?

I am sorry that you don't have the vocabulary or ability to explain your position, because I would like to understand you better.

[Patchuli]

63. No, but DU offers plenty of offense

and you just insulted my level of education in your one-liner.

I was raised a Catholic, parochial school, the whole deal. I never found faith until I became a Christian. There are light years of difference between the two. I originally took offense at the poster who wanted to know why all the Christians were not defending the Pope. That shows a remarkable lack of understanding of the difference. We do not follow the pope nor do we agree with him on his positions re: womens' rights, gay marriage, etc. On the other hand, I am also disgusted with Rick Warren for his words of late and find him 'too slick' as well. Dobson is a nutcase.

I am tired of all the Christian-bashing that goes on here. It's not OK to bash other types of life-styles but for some reason, it seems to be open season on us. We're not all fundie extremist whack-jobs.

And if you don't understand what I just said, then it is your lack of ability at fault.

[Book Lover]

65. If you are so educated, then use your education.

Your implication that because I was raised Roman Catholic, ipso facto I was not taught, nor did I seek out and learn, anything about the man Jesus, his teachings as discussed outside the Bible itself, or the history of the time and place when he lived, is insulting to me. You don't like the framework of the RCC, fine. I didn't either. But this "Catholics are not Christians" stuff is bullshit. Not all of us were taught in such as lacking manner as you were.

[Patchuli]

70. Perhaps your parochial school or your priest

was better than ours, but no I did not learn much about the man Jesus. I remember being told to pray to statues a lot.

Catholics are NOT the same as Christians and my biggest objection to the Roman Catholic deal was that "no one but WE will go to heaven." If I didn't go to church on Sunday that was "mortal sin." If I offed someone that was a "mortal sin." How can that possibly equate?!

My cousin who is still RC, is dying and just accepted Jesus Christ as his Saviour, used to refer to my sister and I as "heathens." Maybe that will give you a clue as to what I mean. The arrogance of the Catholic Church is what puts off many. The fact that I took communion for many years as a a Catholic but never felt it meant much until I took it as a born-again Christian means much to me. Spar on if you wish but spar without me.

[hlthe2b]

51. I would maintain it is that group of fundamentalist "born-agains"

who are NOT Christians, though I can certainly agree with your disdain for Catholic hierarchy, this current Pope Ratzinger, and for Vatican hypocrisy. Then again, I firmly believe it is Catholic faithful who make the church, not the Vatican nor any edicts they might make that clearly supercede the message of Christ from the New Testament.

Again, I am as lapsed as they come, but I do respect those who continue to try....

[ret5hd]

53. only born-agains are xtian!!!

:rofl:

[Patchuli]

58. Not exactly

but with your attitude of disrespect for faith, why would I bother to explain?

Oh and it's Christian, not "xtian." Har har har...

[ReadTomPaine]

66. Well I'm happy to explain it. Protestants are an offshoot of the Catholic faith- both are Christians

This is not a faith based question, but a historical one. Personal interpretations regarding dogma are largely irrelevant in this context. Protestants and the newer denominations that spun off from them are all by definition "heretical" offshoots of the RCC. Christianity predates Protestantism by ~1500 years and the Catholic Churches (Western Latin & Eastern Orthodox) are the founding elements of the Christian faith. To say anything else is to argue personal theological philosophy over proven historical fact.

This is a historical question not a philosophical one. It has an answer. It's that simple. Argue any other way and suddenly there are no true Scotsman. You may differ with Catholics on matters of faith (and I don't blame you), but that doesn't mean they aren't Christians. They are in fact the largest Christian church by a wide margin. As they say, hold any opinion you want, but facts are so not mutable.

FYI - I'm not a part of either denomination.

[Patchuli]

71. Having lived in both worlds

I would say one is based on dogma and one is based on the Bible. Of course Catholics believe in Jesus but do they try to follow in his footsteps? Not than I've seen.

[ReadTomPaine]

73. Your arguments - true or otherwise, don't effect the CC's status as the founders of Christianity

..of which your Church is an offshoot. Most religions understandably tend to prefer their own interpretations to others, even when they are as closely related as Catholics and Protestants, but that doesn't mean that guy holding mass at Saint Agnes down the street is any less Christian than you. They were Christians for over a thousand years before your church even existed.

That's quite a precedent. Historically & objectively speaking, it doesn't get much more conclusive than that.

[Patchuli]

74. I didn't say "less Christian" Mr. ReadTomPaine

I said it is different and I told the CC experience from my own life within it for the first 12 years of my life. It was NOTHING like my life of faith now. I do appreciate the fact that my church now does not exclude other Christians (like Catholics) from joining us all in Heaven someday as did the CC. Let's just say the bullshit factor was high in the CC.

[hlthe2b]

50. SInce when are Catholics Not Christians?

RW fundie Xians like to maintain that they are not, but if you are a current or former Catholic, how can you?
:wtf:

News to everyone in my extended family (and me, though my decades lapse might make me step back from the fray)

[Patchuli]

59. Christian in name only

but very little of my Catholic upbringing actually focused on Christ or His Teachings.

[boomerbust]

15. Fine message

But about eight years to late.

[jwirr]

16. I am sorry if I offend Catholics but since the 80s American Catholics

have been voting for pugs to end abortion and NOW he wants them to be generous in the mess they created? Maybe he should take some of that wealth he hides away in his church and spend it on the poor.

[onehandle]

45. Democrats went for Obama this election.

Most Catholics vote like anyone, but tend towards Democrats.

Only a small minority, just like fundies, vote only with abortion on their mind.

[Lorien]

17. "If people look only to their own interests, our world will certainly fall apart."

Those words are certainly true-and the US is reaping the "rewards" of selfishness and greed right now. Still, I'm waiting for the day that the Vatican sells off it's riches to make the world a better place. The opulence of the Catholic church has forever sent the wrong message!

[Hulk]

19. I am so disgusted with the "Catholic Church"....

They have the audacity to send their messengers out to get involved in OUR political process and preach their hatred and bigotry toward gay marriage, they are just plain stupid enough to even bring up the subject of safety to children, when they are responsible for so many molestations in their ranks; and finally, clothed in finest silks and surrounded by gold, silver and precious jewels, they are pompous and ignorant enough to speak of the poor while they continue to loot from the poor to stuff their coffers full.

Shame on them. Shame on this dumb ass ex-Nazi for even showing his face on Christmas and especially for lecturing the world where his own glass house has enough sin and sick, twisted history to make Lucifer himself proud.

Eat shit and bark at the moon poop benedict. You have spoiled my Christmas by even showing up.

[Vinca]

21. Does this mean the Pope is planning a garage sale of Vatican treasures?

:rofl: Didn't think so.

[riverdeep]

22. Selfishness?

How about canceling all donations and telling people to give directly to those who are needy, instead of flashy middle men? No, can't do that? Then shut the hell up.

You managed to con people into believing your nonsense, you should be happy enough for that, don't tempt fate and make stunningly ironic statements.

[defendandprotect]

40. American taxpayers are paying for this --- ???!!!!

[riverdeep]

41. Considering there are Catholics in this country,

yes. It isn't forced on them, of course. But it just seems quite dumb to give it to some organization to distribute that in actions actually winds up creating more poor in world (for example, lack of birth control).

[JonQ]

24. I wonder how much money would be freed up

if the pope, cardinals, bishops, etc were provided with only enough money to live. Not luxuriously, but simply, more like, say, jesus lived.

Monks are supposed to live austere lives. Perhaps the boss can give it a try.

[arcane1]

25. Merely a back-handed way of saying "give to the Church"

what an asshole

[RCinBrooklyn]

26. That must be all of you straight people. Us gay people are a more sinister "human wound".

[Politicalboi]

28. I guess this means

The Poop will give all his money to the poor right? Yeah when his Hell freezes over.

[cstanleytech]

30. Does this mean the popes going to order any and all of the churches frivolous secular assets sold?

[TEmperorHasNoClothes]

31. then he should support gay marriage....

because his own homophobia and selfishness is standing in the way of all the economic stimulus that LGBT weddings would bring.

[Deja Q]

33. For whom is the Pope addressing?

Depending on context, it could be anybody.

[truthisfreedom]

35. Sell off the assets of the Catholic Church and distribute the proceeds to the poor, pope...

You can do much more by example than by flapping your guilt-ridden gums.

[rhett o rick]

56. Watch out for a lightning strike. nm

[kickysnana]

37. Hypocrite: Vatican Treasures on Display in New York

NEW YORK, DEC. 3, 2008 (Zenit.org).- Today is the opening day for an exposition of a body of works compiled in the Vatican Secret Archives, the Vatican Apostolic Library and the Vatican Museums.

http://www.zenit.org/article-24454?l=english

By MICHELLE BEARDEN, The Tampa Tribune
Published: February 10, 2008

ST. PETERSBURG - How do you guard a museum collection so priceless no one will put a value on it?
Very, very, very carefully. So carefully, no one will talk about it.

http://www2.tbo.com/content/2008/feb/10/treasures-of-the-vatican/entertainment/

[Alamuti Lotus]

46. The CEO of the world's largest, most crooked business..

complains aobut selfishness in others?! Buries the needle on the ol' Irony Meter..

[happyslug]

49. The Actual Speech, to be given on 1/1/2009

http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/messages/peace/documents/hf_ben-xvi_mes_20081208_xlii-world-day-peace_en.html

[Locrian]

52. gimee a break

Just where the FUCK was the vatican / pope et all for the last 20 YEARS when rampant selfishness was THEN defining there re the "free market"?

[rhett o rick]

55. This is typical of top level management. They open their door, stick their heads out

and shout a "decry" to the masses. They close their doors and are warm with their feeling of accomplishment. Some of the masses eat it up. "Wow, did you hear him "decry", wow." But really it is totally meaningless. It's called "top down" management.

[rhett o rick]

57. Does anyone think that hearing this, that one single person will stop being selfish? Again I say

audacious.

[Odin2005]

64. You and your church should do as you preach, Ratzo.

Bunch of fucking hypocrites.

[ProudDad]

68. As long as your not gay

Or female

If you are either of those, then you must accept gladly your 2nd class citizenship...

[SpikeTss]

69. Very wise words

"If people look only to their own interests, our world will certainly fall apart."

If only people would listen and not give in to their anti-religious prejudices. The tone in this forum reminds of the worst times in the Soviet Union.

[gtar100]

72. Sorry, can't take this guy too seriously. He does that enough for the both of us.

Right or wrong, the guy just doesn't have what it takes to be a spiritually inspiring leader.