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California to propose new rules limiting pollution from nearly all diesel trucks in the state

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Newsjock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-08 10:42 PM
Original message
California to propose new rules limiting pollution from nearly all diesel trucks in the state
Source: San Jose Mercury News

The black soot that big rig trucks belch from their chugging diesel engines may soon become a thing of the past.

In one of the more far-reaching smog regulations that California has ever proposed, state air regulators are considering a first-in-the-nation plan that would require nearly every privately owned, heavy diesel truck in the state to install a filter that would reduce emissions of soot from their rigs by 85 percent.

The new regulation would affect 1 million truckers, half of them registered out of state who regularly drive on California freeways. If approved by the California Air Resources Board at its meeting Friday, it would take effect in 2010, with nearly all trucks required to be retrofitted by 2014.

The filters - stainless steel and three feet long - attach to exhaust pipes and cost between $15,000 and $20,000 per truck. Those who back the proposal point to massive public health benefits. Opponents call the costs prohibitive especially during a time of economic crisis.

Read more: http://www.mercurynews.com/breakingnews/ci_11189829
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bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-08 11:09 PM
Response to Original message
1. That seems like a pretty expensive filter.
And I'll bet it has to be cleaned from time to time too. I think there is something not right here, in this story.
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Systematic Chaos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 01:47 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. That was my first thought too - "Something here ain't right!"
First of all, this device is way too expensive. Who's going to pay for it? Then, there's the fact that this thing would drop the vehicle's power considerably before it even did any good, and the drivers' fuel costs would probably increase.

Sounds to me like something that sounded great on paper but will never get implemented.
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bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 08:08 AM
Response to Reply #3
9. I'm not against particulate filters, as such, pollution sucks.
But something in the story is bullshit.
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shanti Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 12:09 AM
Response to Original message
2. thank you!
anyone who lives next to a freeway has reason to rejoice at this news! i'm about 1/8 of a mile from a heavily traveled freeway, and everything has a coat of soot, even the orange trees in my yard. (now...if they'd just build a soundwall....)
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dipsydoodle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 04:12 AM
Response to Original message
4. Please read this for details in Europe
Edited on Thu Dec-11-08 04:13 AM by edwardlindy
From May 23, 2007 :

STAMFORD, Conn. -- Clean Diesel Technologies, Inc. (EBB:CDTI, AIM:CDT/CDTS & XETRA:CDI), an innovation leader for clean energy and environmental technologies to reduce harmful engine emissions today announced that it has developed a range of retrofit emissions control technologies, called Purifier, to meet the requirements of the London Low Emissions Zone (LEZ). The Mayor of London recently approved plans for the implementation of a London-wide LEZ. In addition, Clean Diesel's Purifier technologies will benefit 31 other similar LEZs planned for metropolitan areas throughout Europe over the next three to four years. The goal of the LEZs is to dramatically reduce the number of heavily polluting commercial vehicles from entering large cities, including London starting in spring 2008, and to enable London and the other cities to achieve European Union air quality objectives.

Dr. Bernhard Steiner, Chief Executive of Clean Diesel Technologies, said Transport for London data indicate there are over 400,000 non-compliant vehicles entering London annually. He stated that those and hundreds of thousands of vehicles throughout Europe would benefit from the Purifier technology. Dr. Steiner estimated the potential market opportunity for Clean Diesel's Purifier technologies in LEZs over the next few years in excess of $100 Million (PS50 million).
>
Commercial operators wishing to enter the London LEZ, as confirmed recently by Mayor Ken Livingstone, can either opt to pay a fixed fee of $400 (PS200) per day or ensure that their vehicles comply with Euro III standards on particulate matter. Almost two-thirds of particulate matter and half of the emissions of oxides of nitrogen (two of the key pollutants of concern in London) are from road transport. The LEZ applies specifically to diesel engine trucks, buses, coaches, large vans and minibuses.
etc, etc.
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0EIN/is_/ai_n27249254

London is now zoned. All main access roads into London now have warning signs that vehicles are now entering a controlled zone.

As an aside - a lot of our buses, even outside of London , have been converted to run on LPG to help cut back on evnironmental damage from diesel smoke belchers.
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truthisfreedom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 04:22 AM
Response to Original message
5. Excellent start for Obama. Think of it.
Here we have a perfect example of something needing immediate attention, an invention about to happen, that will bring the cost of modification down to peanuts.
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dipsydoodle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 06:10 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. It's already been invented.
Now its just a matter of others overcoming the patent and producing it for less.
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JBear Donating Member (318 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 06:55 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. THe reason it costs so much is not a patent...
These particulate filters are not expensive because of someone trying to make a buck. Certainly there is a profit margin, but the main cost is in the catalyst that is required to make these things work. Similar to a catalytic converter on your gasser, the Diesel Particulate Filters use a catalyzed material to filter out the soot. The catalyst is there so that when the temperature reaches a certain level, the soot that is trapped is burned off into more CO2 and a smaller amount of ash.

I am all about cleaner emissions, but I have to say that I don't think that this is a good idea. First of all, all new on highway trucks in the US have to meet the standard as of 2007. This is why we needed to switch to Ultra Low Sulfur Diesel (another discussion). Retrofitting trucks en masse will cause their engines to wear out faster, burn more fuel, release MUCH more CO2 into the air and cost the truck owner a lot more in maintenance (after they have footed the $20k bill already). It is FAR better to use this technology on an engine that is built for it.

So what is my solution? First, offer an incentive for the truck owner to upgrade to a 2007 or newer model. Second, create the critical low emissions zones, like the LA Basin and only require the retrofit there (using a similar fee scheme as what London did).

My other wish (while we are at it) is for the US to accept EuroIII certification so that we can get some more diesel cars over here. The difference in regulations on diesel emissions between the US and the EU are subtle but put up significant barriers to certifying in the US.

Just a thought!
:bounce:
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dipsydoodle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 07:42 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. Euro 3
is well out of date. After 1st Jan. 2005 only Euro 4's could be registered. As an aside it caused Mercedes to throw huge amounts at E Class cars the previous October for them to be registered in time - they'd otherwise have needed to be re-engined or mashed. From memory there were some exemptions granted at that time for fat engined Jeeps etc. which ran though to the middel of that year

The Euro 5 standards are not due in until Spet. 09 but BMW for example are already fitting the Euro 5 new engines in their 3 series diesel face lifted 2009 models. Euro 5 limits both particles and noxious gaseous emmissions. I think that it due to our standards in Europe that most American manufacturers find it easier to have the engines made over here if not the complete car. My own 2008 Jeep Patriot has got the VW 2.0 CRD engine and the VW 4Motion running gear too I think theye're made in Austria ?

Over here DPF filters add about £ 300 to the cost of car.
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XemaSab Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 05:49 PM
Response to Reply #7
11. I'd guess this is more targeted at the Central Valley than LA
They're taking "nonattainment" to the next level there. :P
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Dover Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 07:23 PM
Response to Reply #7
13. I'm confused. A few questions...
I thought the low sulfur diesel was already approved and being used.

Sooo, what changes are there to 2007 vehicles? Can older vehicles use the low sulfur diesel?
How much cleaner is the low sulfur diesel?
And do 2007 vehicles need these new filters as well as the cleaner l.s. diesel?
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Hell Hath No Fury Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 11:26 AM
Response to Original message
10. I am fully behind any atempt to reduce diesel emmissions.
I drive a scooter part of the year here in SF, and I am here to tell you that driving behind a diesel truck exhaust pipe is one on the most disgusting things on the planet -- especially as the truck is accelerating out of a stop. The air is choking, and you can actually "feel" the air in your nose and mouth -- like it has body to it. Diesel is dirty, dirty shit. :(
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Xithras Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 06:39 PM
Response to Original message
12. This is going to drive the cost of goods way up in California.
I like the idea, but not the timeline. The CARB should treat trucks the same way they treat cars...impose new regulations on new vehicles, but leave the old ones alone. This regulation is going to have three major impacts.

First, it will reduce the number of interstate truckers driving into California. Lots of privately owned drivers will simply start driving 47 state routes and avoid California entirely. This will reduce competition, which allows prices to rise.

Second, many (by some projections, most) of the small trucking companies will simply cease to exist. Lots of people don't realize this, but most of the freight hauled down the road is pulled by trucks not owned by the companies who own the produce being transported. Typically, shipping is subcontracted to a smaller company or an owner-operator. Here is California, most of those trucking companies own under 20 tractors and can't afford to replace an entire fleet. They'll simply shutter their doors and lay off their drivers. Again, less competition and higher prices.

Third, those trucks cost between $100,000 and $200,000 a piece. Those new payments aren't coming out of the trucking companies pockets but will be passed on to the shippers. The shippers will pass them on to the customers. Again, prices go up.

The problem here is that the timeline imposed by the CARB ignores the very real economic harm they're about to cause. In a better economy I wouldn't mind so much, but NOW?!?!
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