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OhioChick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-02-08 08:55 PM
Original message
Obama's DHS pick may find support for raising H-1B cap at confirmation hearing
Source: ComputerWorld

Joseph Lieberman, whose committee oversees homeland security, has been both a critic and a supporter of the H-1B program

December 2, 2008 (Computerworld) WASHINGTON -- President-elect Barack Obama's pick to lead the U.S. Department of Homeland Security will face a confirmation hearing before a Senate committee whose chairman, Sen. Joseph Lieberman (Ind.-Conn.), has been both a critic and a defender of the H-1B program. The Connecticut senator's most recent action on the program came in April, when he backed legislation seeking a major increase in the number of H-1B visas that are issued.

Arizona Gov. Janet Napolitano, who was officially nominated yesterday to lead the DHS, is a strong advocate for increasing the H-1B cap. She is expected to appear in late January or early February before the Senate Committee on Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs, which Lieberman heads. The ranking GOP member is Sen. Susan Collins of Maine, who last year pushed for reform of the H-1B program.

The focus of the hearing will undoubtedly be on keeping the U.S. safe from terrorists, and topics of higher priority may include the recent terrorist attack in India. Also high on the list is a report, due for release Wednesday, by the congressionally appointed Commission on the Prevention of WMD Proliferation and Terrorism warning that a biological attack is likely by 2013.

Lieberman, an independent, supports increasing the H-1B cap. On April 10, just days after the H-1B visa cap of 85,000 was reached, Lieberman co-sponsored the Global Competitiveness Act of 2008, which would have allowed the U.S. to "recapture" 150,000 unused H-1B visas from prior years and redistribute them. The 85,000 cap includes 20,000 spots for people who hold advance degrees.



Read more: http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&articleId=9122118&intsrc=hm_list



Snip~ "The concerns raised by Collins were underscored in a recent report by the U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Service, which is part of DHS. The USCIS found widespread fraud, including the existence of shell companies, in the H-1B program. Whether Collins will raise this issue at the hearing is uncertain. Collins was not immediately available for comment.

But in October, after the USCIS report was released, Collins said there "is a serious problem with outright fraud in the H-1B visa program." She warned further that "the approval of these fraudulent petitions poses a real risk to our national security, because if these foreign workers don't end up working for their identified employer, then we may never know why they actually came to the United States or their current whereabouts."

I hope Obama keeps to his word on this issue. I know of many unemployed, qualified U.S. tech workers. Many groups are following this closely.
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tbyg52 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-02-08 09:00 PM
Response to Original message
1. K&R. The way I hear it,
these visas are in large part just getting around the U.S. workers who would have been making more money, and not be as controllable.
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Kittycat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-02-08 09:05 PM
Response to Original message
2. There are too many qualified Americans that need these jobs.
Or have we forgotten the tech collapse and all those that lost their jobs as companies downsized or were wiped off the map?
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ihavenobias Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-02-08 09:34 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. Amen. n/t
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Deja Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-02-08 10:20 PM
Response to Reply #2
6. That's just our collective imagination.
Edited on Tue Dec-02-08 10:24 PM by HypnoToad
:sarcasm:


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Sub Atomic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-02-08 11:53 PM
Response to Reply #6
29. I know you put in the sarcasm tag, but your post is still really offensive.
I lost my job in February and can't find anything.

Unemployment (extension) ran out in October.

Thanks for your :sarcasm: and :sympathy:

:cheers:
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OhioChick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-02-08 11:55 PM
Response to Reply #29
31. I'm sorry to hear that and wish you the best.
:hug:
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Virginian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-03-08 12:05 AM
Response to Reply #29
33. Good luck
I was replaced by H-1b recipients and have given up looking.

I now make about 1/10th what I did 5 years ago.

As long as a skill is taught in the US, we should have qualified US workers and not need to import people.

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antigop Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-02-08 09:36 PM
Response to Original message
4. "whether Collins will raise this issue at the hearing." I'm calling her office tomorrow to request
that she does.

Put the pressure on. They need to hear from us.
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OhioChick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-02-08 09:44 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. Same Here.
Edited on Tue Dec-02-08 09:46 PM by OhioChick
Senator Susan Collins

Contact Info:

DC Office Information
413 Dirksen Senate Office Building
Washington, DC 20510
Phone: (202) 224-2523
Fax: (202) 224-2693



Caribou State Office:
25 Sweden Street, Suite A
Caribou, ME 04736
Main: (207) 493-7873



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Bangor State Office:
P.O. Box 655
202 Harlow Street, Room 204
Bangor, ME 04402
Main: (207) 945-0417



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Augusta State Office:
68 Sewall Street, Room 507
Augusta, ME 04330
Main: (207) 622-8414



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Lewiston State Office:
11 Lisbon Street
Lewiston, ME 04240
Main: (207) 784-6969



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Biddeford State Office:
160 Main Street
Biddeford, ME 04005
Main: (207) 283-1101



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Portland State Office:
One City Center, Stop 23
Portland, ME 04101
Main: (207) 780-3575





http://collins.senate.gov/public/continue.cfm?FuseAction=ContactSenatorCollins.Phone&CFID=51399006&CFTOKEN=33263327
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Deja Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-02-08 10:23 PM
Response to Original message
7. In all seriousness, I think he'll keep his word.
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OhioChick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-02-08 10:40 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. I hope you're right.
Otherwise, me and my kids will be living under a bridge soon.
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Azlady Donating Member (889 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-02-08 10:59 PM
Response to Reply #8
14. Lots of calling & emailing - He has to keep his promise...
This can not happen, so many american IT workers will be living under bridges, please save a spot for me, if the cap is increased, we are all toast.

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OhioChick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-02-08 11:33 PM
Response to Reply #14
23. Contact Info:
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AzDar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-02-08 10:47 PM
Response to Original message
9. K & R ...
:kick:
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w4rma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-02-08 10:49 PM
Response to Original message
10. Obama and the rest of the Democratic Party had better remember that most of their fundraising came
Edited on Tue Dec-02-08 10:50 PM by w4rma
through small donors who donated with the help of U.S. computer programmers and computer networkers. They will do well to remember that they won't get reelected if they piss us off.

And raising that cap *will* piss us off.
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cascadiance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-02-08 10:57 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. Offending tech workers will REALLY make bloggers turn on him too I think!
As well as those who donate through the internet.

I know we're brooding layoffs coming a week or so from now too. We can't afford to keep bringing in more H1-B visas when we already are cutting loose so many tech workers now.
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w4rma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-02-08 11:02 PM
Response to Reply #12
17. Hell yeah. They had better not piss off U.S. tech workers. That is the very last thing they should
want to do.
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OhioChick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-02-08 11:01 PM
Response to Reply #10
16. "And raising that cap *will* piss us off."
Damn Straight.
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ChromeFoundry Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-02-08 11:15 PM
Response to Reply #10
21. The fact that this is making news...
and have all of us are guessing at what is going to happen next has me pissed off. This was a Top 5 issue during the campaign... This had better be a promise kept or the blow-back is going to be great.
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Doremus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-02-08 10:49 PM
Response to Original message
11. Must Lower Wages of US Workers Act of 2008
aka Global Competitiveness Act of 2008

:puke: :puke: :puke:
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desktop Donating Member (263 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-02-08 10:59 PM
Response to Original message
13. I was not aware of Napolitano's H1-B views, she should be denied confirmation
I will not mince words, the H1-B program is nothing more than a gift to companies to lower wages. It kills jobs for American citizens, and should be shut down completely for 5 years, and then used only in very small quantities. Information Technology in America could easily be renamed Indian Technology and it would be more accurate as American citizens are shoved aside and out of a job. Napolitano can go fuck herself.
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Phred42 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-02-08 11:00 PM
Response to Original message
15. K&R Tx for the post
can always count on you to keep us up on this.
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OhioChick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-02-08 11:02 PM
Response to Reply #15
18. Thanks, Phred.
It's my career. My kids depend on me.
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Riley133 Donating Member (258 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-02-08 11:09 PM
Response to Original message
19. Nov 2007 - Obama supports temporary increase in H1B Visas
Q&A With Senator Barack Obama On Key Technology Issues

November 26, 2007
Michael Arrington

MA: What is your position on H1B visas in general? Do you believe the number of H1B visas should be increased?

BO: Highly skilled immigrants have contributed significantly to our domestic technology industry. But we have a skills shortage, not a worker shortage. There are plenty of Americans who could be filling tech jobs given the proper training. I am committed to investing in communities and people who have not had an opportunity to work and participate in the Internet economy as anything other than consumers. Most H-1B new arrivals, for example, have earned a bachelor’s degree or its equivalent abroad (42.5%). They are not all PhDs. We can and should produce more Americans with bachelor’s degrees that lead to jobs in technology. A report of the National Science Foundation (NSF) reveals that blacks, Hispanics, and Native Americans as a whole comprise more that 25% of the population but earn, as a whole, 16% of the bachelor degrees, 11% of the master’s degrees, and 5% of the doctorate degrees in science and engineering. We can do better than that and go a long way toward meeting industry’s need for skilled workers with Americans. Until we have achieved that, I will support a temporary increase in the H-1B visa program as a stopgap measure until we can reform our immigration system comprehensively. I support comprehensive immigration reform that includes improvement in our visa programs, including our legal permanent resident visa programs and temporary programs including the H-1B program, to attract some of the world’s most talented people to America. We should allow immigrants who earn their degrees in the U.S. to stay, work, and become Americans over time. As part of our comprehensive reform, we should examine our ability to replace a stopgap increase in the number of H1B visas with an increase in the number of permanent visas we issue to foreign skilled workers. I will also work to ensure immigrant workers are less dependent on their employers for their right to stay in the country and would hold accountable employers who abuse the system and their workers.

http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/11/26/qa-with-senator-barack-obama-on-key-technology-issues/

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OhioChick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-02-08 11:10 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. He did not say that in speeches while campaigning.
Just the opposite was said.

We shall see.
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Riley133 Donating Member (258 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-02-08 11:38 PM
Response to Reply #20
24. I know, but take a look at this:
Democrats Want to Tax Health Care

Baucus said Obama's and Biden's relentless campaign rhetoric against McCain for being willing to "tax insurance" did not mean the benefit was off-limits in the reform process. "We're not going to eliminate the exclusion, but we're certainly going to discuss it," said Baucus. "The campaign is over. Barack Obama is our president; we have a majority in the House and a Democratic majority in the Senate. But the goal is to work together. I think we're going to have to use some of Senator McCain's suggestions in order to get an agreed-upon result."

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2008/12/01/democrats_may_tax_health_benefits/

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OhioChick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-02-08 11:42 PM
Response to Reply #24
27. Should that happen.....
Obama will never be given a second term. People will view the Dems to be no different than the Republicans.
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Veruca Salt Donating Member (846 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-03-08 10:14 AM
Response to Reply #20
50. I don't know about speeches... and this kind of policy kills me
inside a bit each time I see it because that's my field of work. I found the following from January which stated the exact same thing - it seems to me that he's been consistent right along.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x4307334

I'm going to contact my senators office about it; I didn't realize she was working on the fraud angle for it (I learn something new every day from DU!). There are so many highly trained American IT workers who need jobs, we need to stop issuing those visa's for IT until every single american in the IT field is working. If the visa's are to be used for other occupations that really do have a shortage then fine. But it should be extremely specified.
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DemFromMem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-02-08 11:27 PM
Response to Original message
22. OK, then what?
Let's assume that there is fraud in the program. Most of the people complaining most loudly about this don't offer the logical response - why does our government tolerate the fraud? Fraud in the H-1B program has no connection to what the appropriate number of H-1B visas is (and the current quota is at the same level as set in 1990 when a quota as introduced for the first time) or whether the H-1B is having a positive or negative effect on American workers' salaries.

Address fraud by enforcing the law. Read 8 CFR 214.2(h) and you will find an elaborate enforcement system already created. Why does the Labor Department audit so few cases each year and almost never fine employers? Either there isn't fraud (doubtful) or they are not doing their job. If the latter is happening, Congress should find out why? Bureaucratic ineptitude? Lack of funding? Lack of complaints being filed?

I freely admit to being an immigration lawyer. But almost all of my clients are employers of doctors and nurses who have become collateral damage in this battle in the tech community. I have to tell physician and nurse employers on a daily basis that they will have to do without or wait years and years to get a foreign doctor or nurse in their community because of a lack of temporary and permanent visas. Given the dramatic shortage of both MDs and RNs in this country and given numerous studies that link mortality rates (particularly in poor, inner city and rural communities), to the to health care worker shortage, people are dying while IT workers and employers duke it out.

For those tempted to say we should just pay more to nurses and doctors and the problem would be solved, that doesn't work when the unemployment rate in those fields is close to 0%. And while it's a great idea to train more doctors and nurses, if you made the decision in 2008 to build a new medical school (with all of that excess money floating around in the US economy!), it would take 12 to 15 years before the first graduate started actually treating patients in private practice. For nurses, it's a shorter cycle, but Congress and the states have been pouring money in to nursing education programs for the last several years and the nursing shortage is still growing with a million nurse shortage expected by 2020. That's what happens when all those baby boomers start reporting age-related health problems.

I have a proposal - maintain the H-1B cap where it is with its $3500/worker tax/fee and rigorously enforce anti-fraud rules already on the books. And then have a separate uncapped H-1B category for employers who do one of the following three things:

1. Demonstrate that they are paying 10% or more over the prevailing wage for the position in the metro area
2. The employer can demonstrate that the unemployment rate in the particular occupation is below 4% (the economist's normal definition of full employment)or the Labor Department certifies an occupation as having a severe shortage of workers or
3. The employer gets a labor certification from the Department of Labor documenting that the employer has recruited for the position and no US worker with the minimum qualifications is immediately available to fill the position (i.e. that there are no unemployed qualified American workers available to fill the position).

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OhioChick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-02-08 11:39 PM
Response to Reply #22
25. No need to "assume" there is fraud in the system....
Even our government agencies are admitting it.....and many have been filing an overabundance of complaints.

H-1B Visa Reform Takes Shape to Address Fraud, Procedural Nightmares

2008-11-07

H-1B Visa Reform Takes Shape to Address Fraud, Procedural Nightmares
( Page 1 of 2 )

In the wake of a report claiming up to 20 percent of H-1B applicants may be fraudulent, the U.S. Bureau of Citizenship and Immigration Services will look more closely at H-1B visa applications.

The agency responsible for granting H-1B visa applications plans to tighten up its procedures for vetting and approving the applications in the wake of a report indicating as many as 20 percent of the applications may be fraudulent or technically flawed.

The U.S. Bureau of Citizenship and Immigration Services, which is responsible for approving and administering H-1B applications, will increase the level of detail in which H-1B visa applications are examined and do what it can to eliminate the types of problems identified in the report, according to department spokesman Bill Wright.

The report is an audit of 246 applications that found 13 percent of the applicants used forged documentation, false businesses or addresses, false job offers, or misrepresented their immigration status. Another 7 percent had technical violations such as requiring the applicant to pay the application fee or list a salary substantively above what the applicant would actually be paid.

The report, H-1B Benefit Fraud & Compliance Assessment (PDF), was done at the request of Sen. Chuck Grassley, R-Iowa, a longtime critic of U.S. immigration policy in general and the H-1B program in particular.

Neither Grassley nor other representatives involved in H-1B legislation responded to calls, but the staff of Lamar Smith, R-Texas, ranking member of the House Judiciary Committee, called the frequency of the fake degrees, fake businesses and forged documents "troubling."

"We cannot allow individuals to abuse H-1B visas in order to enter the country fraudulently and take jobs from American workers. The Administration must do more to protect the American worker and restore integrity to the H-1B visa program," the statement continued.

More: http://www.eweek.com/c/a/IT-Infrastructure/H1B-Visa-Reform-Takes-Shape-to-Address-Fraud-Procedural-Nightmares/
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sledgehammer Donating Member (774 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-02-08 11:50 PM
Response to Reply #22
28. Point # 3 in your list...
...is where a lot of fraud occurs. And it's way too open-ended to be accurately audited or anything.

FYI, I am a F1 -> H1B -> Green Carder -> Citizen (over the last 10 years) so I understand the whole process very well (I've discussed this issue a lot over the last week or two on DU). Like you, I also believe that the H-1B program should stay, but the abuse by the employer (e.g. wage cutting) and employee (e.g. fake credentials) needs to stop asap, and strict regulation needs to be put in place to enforce existing laws.

I don't see a reason to increase the cap at this point, and I can see the potential for a temporary decrease. Maybe Congress can stipulate the max number of visas for various professions, and assess that annually.

BTW, aren't nurses on H-1C visas, which are not included in the H-1B quotas? I could be wrong though. I guess doctors are on H-1Bs in any case.
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DemFromMem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-03-08 12:12 AM
Response to Reply #28
34. H-1Cs limited to 500 for the whole country/year
There are single hospitals in this country that have that many nurses. It was a program largely designed to help a single hospital in Chicago when it was created.

The problem with COngress setting quotas for different professions is that they only get around to legislating once or twice a decade. That may mean that they allocate too many visas or too few visas depending on which way the economy goes. Better to have actual economic data controlling the numbers, not politicians who have been lobbied one way or the other and who usually respond two or three years too late to solve a problem.
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ChromeFoundry Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-02-08 11:54 PM
Response to Reply #22
30. But...
For those tempted to say we should just pay more to nurses and doctors and the problem would be solved, that doesn't work when the unemployment rate in those fields is close to 0%. And while it's a great idea to train more doctors and nurses, if you made the decision in 2008 to build a new medical school (with all of that excess money floating around in the US economy!), it would take 12 to 15 years before the first graduate started actually treating patients in private practice.


How long would it take for non-practicing doctors to return to the field? How many are now teaching or decided to move into other fields (outside of patient care) because they were sick and tired of being controlled by pharmaceuticals, health plans and overly profitable hospitals?

If we cannot survive without increasing the H-1B cap... then the visa holder should make a minimum of 15% over prevailing wage, and there should be a tariff that directly assists citizens willing to train for the position. This will ensure that abuses of this system will not lead to the hiring of cheap labor and maximizing corporate profit... LIKE IT DOES TODAY!
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DemFromMem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-03-08 12:19 AM
Response to Reply #30
36. peanuts
Really, there are almost no doctors that would shift. There is a massive physician recruiting infrastructure in place doing everything possible to get these folks. The salaries for physicians in the US is now SHOCKINGLY high and if sky high salaries and numerous other perks aren't getting docs back in the field, it's because they're not available. Most specialist foreign physicians I work on now are earning in the $300,000 to $600,000 salary range. The lowest paid primary care doctors I'm seeing are typically earning over $200,000.

Nurses are doing pretty well, too. I'm now starting to see nurses paid in the six figures. Not bad for a job that only requires a two year degree.

As for earning 15% over the prevailing wage, we're now talking about negotiating over a number and we're on the right track. I don't have a problem with a tariff either. In fact, we have that already - the $3500 I mentioned in my post. $1500 of that fee goes to a scholarship fund for retraining US workers.
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OhioChick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-03-08 12:26 AM
Response to Reply #36
37. RN's go to school for more than 2 years.....
My cousin is an RN and went to school for 4+ years (continuing education classes) and doesn't make anywhere near a 6 digit salary.
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ChromeFoundry Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-03-08 12:30 AM
Response to Reply #37
38. Yeah... 6-figures is a bit of fantasy land
Registered Nurse Salaries

Staff RNs working in the United States average a median base salary of $41,642. Half of all US RN's are expected to earn between $38,792 and $44,869. Nearly 67% of nurses are employed in hospital inpatient and outpatient settings. 32% of all nurses are employed in medical offices and clinics, home healthcare agencies, nursing homes, temporary help agencies, academia, and government agencies.

Nurse | 3+ Years | Starting Base
RN | $47,110 | $39,000
Staff RN $44,200 | $37,000
Master Level | $59,600 | $49,700

http://www.allied-physicians.com/salary-surveys/nursing/
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DemFromMem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-03-08 12:40 AM
Response to Reply #38
42. specialty nursing is where the serious money is
critical care, peri-operative, emergency room nursing, rehabilitative nursing, oncology, etc. all pay substantial salaries. Every state in the country has dropped the degree requirement for nurses from bachelors down to associates degrees (largely because of the shortage). Actually, getting an H-1B for a nurse is pretty tough precisely because you need to convince USCIS that a bachelors degree or higher is a reasonable requirement for the job and examiners are skeptical in most cases because you don't need a bachelors for a license. Most nurses therefore have to come on a green card since there is no other non-immigrant category available typically (Canadians can get a TN visa, but that's the exception). And green card quotas are backlogged several years for nurses.
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DemFromMem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-03-08 12:48 AM
Response to Reply #38
43. DOL's OES wage database
I file cases regularly in Northern California and here is the salary range (http://www.flcdatacenter.com/)

San Francisco -

Level 1 Wage: $29.70 hour - $61,776 year
Level 2 Wage: $36.53 hour - $75,982 year
Level 3 Wage: $43.36 hour - $90,189 year
Level 4 Wage: $50.19 hour - $104,395 year

------------


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DemFromMem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-03-08 08:33 AM
Response to Reply #38
48. Why nurse salaries are skyrocketing
From Johns Hopkins - http://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/diversity/news_events/building_pipeline.pdf

The dearth of nurses is leading to increased morbidity and mortality for patients at US hospitals....



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DemFromMem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-03-08 12:33 AM
Response to Reply #37
40. Tell your cousin to get a decent nurse headhunter
And move to the right part of the country. Southern California, NY, etc.
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OhioChick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-03-08 12:36 AM
Response to Reply #40
41. She's doing well for herself at the Cleveland Clinic.
I think poster #38 is quite accurate for salaries of RN's.
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DemFromMem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-03-08 05:33 PM
Response to Reply #41
57. Breaking news - Nursing program enrollment continuing to slide
Just got this email alert this afternoon from Modern Healthcare Magazine:

Breaking News



Growth in new enrollment at undergraduate nursing programs stagnated in 2008, while growth in graduate nursing and research doctorate programs either slowed to a crawl or did not show any growth, according to a survey from the American Association of Colleges of Nursing.


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dreamnightwind Donating Member (863 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-03-08 12:32 AM
Response to Reply #30
39. excellent post and suggestions
I view increasing the H1-B cap as a personal insult. I've been a computer programmer for 25 years, not working now but not officially unemployed (I voluntarily left my job a few years ago 'cause they were cutting costs and treating those that remained like crap). I'd love to work. I have pretty good skills, but they're a little out of date. Some assistance in financing training, and a place to advance my skills after that, is what I need.

Let's face it, this kind of idea (increasing the H1-B cap) has little to do with actual domestic labor supply, it has a lot to do with proposals being pushed by corporate lobbyists.

I supported Barack. Less and less each day though.
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cascadiance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-03-08 02:23 PM
Response to Reply #22
52. The problem is there are loopholes around "paying the prevailing wage", and other things...
... that is why there have been "body shop" consulting agencies that ONLY hire H-1B visa people, and therefore can pay them whatever they want, since there is no other employees they hire that are getting a "prevailing wage". We need to make sure that we have rules that don't allow these sorts of loopholes to exist, to ensure that employers are paying even more than the prevailing wage for these employees (if they TRULY have skills that American workers don't have, and not that they can't hire for a skill set at a lower than market wage here). If its something like the ability to speak a certain language AND have certain technical skill sets, or other combinations like that which are very hard to find amongst domestic employees, THAT is the kind of hiring that H-1B visas should be used for. If the program weren't being abused, the current caps that exist would be WELL ABOVE what's needed for those kinds of hires, and companies wouldn't mind paying a little extra for those skill set combinations, where they might have to hire two domestic employees instead to get a certain job done.

I think another thing that could help American tech workers is to give them some form of union-like organization to represent their interests and be a source of information on their rights, etc. and one that could lobby to protect American tech workers for things like the H-1B Visa program, instead of counting on a lot of individuals being saavy as to what is going on and lobbying congress independently, but not as effectively, which is the situation we have today.

There are a number of technical worker professional organizations, like IEEE or ACM, that if they were to expand into this area, or work closely to help build a separate organization that would separately be tasked to help with tech worker's rights/representation if they feel their mission would conflict with a tech worker "labor" organization, that would help. I've often felt that if traditional unions had more of a "guild" like mission instead of just confrontational and workers' rights mission, that they might become more respected in society (not only for tech workers' organizations too). I think though that if such a labor organization grew out of organizations like ACM and IEEE, then perhaps it could become more of this "guild" type model, which would promote technical excellence and a brand name to get high quality workers, in addition to protecting tech workers' rights in general. That would be better than doing things like mob affiliations, etc. that got unions in trouble in the past, that more of a "power" obsession than a mission to truly help better the worker's conditions and expertise.

I think in the domain of technical workers, promoting technical excellence is especially important here, instead of just being confrontational, to maximize union membership there as well as respect from companies that would need to work with them if they were to become viable. Currently though, organizations like ACM and IEEE, as good as they are at helping tech workers improve themselves professionally, don't really provide a means to work politically/organizationally for workers' rights/well being. There's a hole there that needs to be filled.
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SharonAnn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-03-08 10:30 PM
Response to Reply #22
58. With adequate pay and job responsibilities, RN's wouldn't be leaving the profession.
There's a reason (even more than one) why so many of our RN's leave the profession within a few years. Address that, and you'd help out the supply tremendously.

And, BTW, the argument about how long it would take to train new RN's was made 10 years ago, 8 years ago, 5 years, ago, etc. and still we haven't made increased education available.

It used to be that smart women were limited in the employment opportunities available, so many talented women went into nursing who would now follow careers where the pay and job responsibilities are vastly better.

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pam4water Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-02-08 11:41 PM
Response to Original message
26. There are atleast 10 million unemployed Americans right now WTF is wrong w/ these people. n/t
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Stop False Flags Donating Member (2 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-03-08 12:05 AM
Response to Original message
32. We need those jobs for citizens, not H-1B visiting foreigners!
We don't produce a damn thing in the U.S. any more, and now we
want to import more foreigners to fill the few decent jobs we
have left!

Also, Mr. Obama is appointing some very dubious people to his
administration!  Is it time to worry yet?
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Stop False Flags Donating Member (2 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-03-08 12:12 AM
Response to Original message
35. Citizens need those jobs, not H-1B visiting foreigners!
We don't produce a damn thing in the U.S. any more, and now we
want to import more foreigners to fill the few decent jobs we
have left!

Also, Mr. Obama is appointing some very dubious people to his
administration!  Is it time to worry yet?
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undeterred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-03-08 12:59 AM
Response to Original message
44. I think Congress is too stupid to figure out that this is a scam.
They haven't heard from us.
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bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-03-08 01:37 AM
Response to Reply #44
46. They HAVE heard from us.
They just don't care.
They know where the BIG MONEY is.
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AllyCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-03-08 01:30 AM
Response to Original message
45. At this point, I have officially joined the WTF is he doing crowd.
H1-B is AWFUL for many people who get few if any worker protections. And, uh, we sort of need the jobs here for the folks who live here and helped elect Obama to get CHANGE. Remember change???
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OhioChick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-04-08 07:05 PM
Response to Reply #45
60. I'm beginning to wonder WTF "Change" is.
Pink slips handed out at work today. I'm safe for now, but not for long. :(
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saracat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-03-08 02:14 AM
Response to Original message
47. Janet is a leading light of the DLC and is very popular with the GOP in AZ.
That is how she got elected. We even had a group Republicans for Janet. She was endorsed by our controversial Sheriff Joe Arpaio. I know this is NOT going to go down well with the IT Community and we need to protect American jobs.
I am wondering if she won't be confirmed if enough fuss is raised? We actually need her in AZ to wield her veto pen over the GOP majority house and Senate.
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Le Taz Hot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-03-08 09:01 AM
Response to Original message
49. So, are the party faithful
getting a clue as to why the progressives have been so upset with President Change's cabinet picks so far? Obama was fully aware of Napolitano's support for H-1B visas. She's not exactly kept it a secret. So far, every single cabinet member was on the WRONG SIDE on every important issue -- from the war to banking deregulation.
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OhioChick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-03-08 01:27 PM
Response to Reply #49
51. You bring up some points to ponder. n/t
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cascadiance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-03-08 02:40 PM
Response to Original message
53. Those browsing this thread that aren't in tech industry should think about H-2B visas too...
... and wonder what these picks will do with those programs too. In some respects the abuse of this program was even worse than H-1B visa program in the aftermath of Katrina. Read articles like this to get the idea of how things are being abused. Some of these kinds of abuses I think are also in the H-1B visa programs, though those kind of workers aren't as likely to let themselves be put in these situations as H-2B workers.

http://h2bpresswatch.wordpress.com/2008/04/09/houston-chronicle-case-highlights-room-for-abuse-in-h-2b-program/

http://www.projectcensored.org/top-stories/articles/7-guest-workers-inc-fraud-and-human-trafficking/

The documented H-2B program abuse here clearly shows the true intent of certain abusive corporate and other business entities in trying to promote increases in both of these programs.
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Azlady Donating Member (889 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-03-08 04:54 PM
Response to Original message
54. Kick... call Ms. Collins (number provided below) let her know your
concerns about this pick for DHS and her position on H1b Visas is NOT okay for the American worker... KICK!
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AnneD Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-03-08 04:56 PM
Response to Original message
55. Increasing the HB-1 cap is nothing more than outsourcing jobs....
on American soil instead of going overseas to do.


There are many reasons for the manufactured Nursing shortage and they include....


decades of suppressed wages for the skill level required.

closing Nursing programs at colleges (most are now ADN programs which really take 31/2 years).

paying a Master's prepared Nursing instructor less than half what a bedside Nurse makes.

dumping more sick patients on fewer Nurses-causing burn out and unsafe practices.

lengthening shifts from 8-12 hours making it harder for older Nurses.

lack of proper equipment to safely do your job (hospitals fought stick-less needles to prevent.

spread of disease and oppose lift equipment as too expensive)-too many Nurses are lost to disability
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SharonAnn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-03-08 10:39 PM
Response to Reply #55
59. You're absolutely right. If they respected the workers, they'd have a different situation.
But they're greedy.

It's hard to believe that in the "sick patient care" business that hospitals can make these terrible decisions, but they do it all the time.

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justabob Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-03-08 05:02 PM
Response to Original message
56. sorry to hear it
This is very disappointing news. What little optimism I had is fading every day, not just for Obama's presidency, but for the long term future of the country in general.
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