2 shot at Southcenter Mall (Tukwila, WA)

[Barrett808]

Source: King5 News

TUKWILA, Wash. - Police are searching for a suspect after two people were shot at the Southcenter mall just before 4 p.m. today.

The mall was being evacuated.

Tukwila Police say two young men in their late teens to early 20s were shot. They were rushed to Harborview Medical Center with serious injuries.

The suspect is described as a black man in late teens to early 20s, 5-foot 6-inches tall, 145 pounds. He was wearing some sort of black jumper with white typing.

"We were just eating our lunch and all the sudden gunshots started going off," witness Kayla Shaw told KING 5. "It was like a stampede of people … there were actually people jumping off the balcony where the food court is at. It was crazy."

Shaw said she saw someone being handcuffed before she was evacuated.

More details to come.

Read more: http://www.king5.com/topstories/stories/NW_112208WAB_southcenter_mall_KS.1db6b4bff.html

[Sarah Ibarruri]

1. Aren't guns lovely? :( nt

[Pavulon]

3. did someone drop a gun?

it went off by accident? no.. sounds like a person pulling the trigger.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

8. I doubt a knife would've had the same effect. nt

[Pavulon]

12. youtube tatp, and have a nice day..(nt)

[Sarah Ibarruri]

13. You too. Enjoy thinking guns and knives are the same and for the same purpose nt

[Pavulon]

14. tatp, go to the store

buy what you need for a mass murder. killed people in london and israel.. the gun did it, that is some ignorant shit.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

15. Oy vey

Why do I always end up talking to the gun nuts?

:boring:

[Pavulon]

16. that gun just shot those people

all by its damn self. you posted the gun comment and now have to stand by it. A person is responsible for their actions.

what is a gun nut?

[Sarah Ibarruri]

21. Okay, you're right. I'm wrong. Let's start letting people buy nuclear reactors....

after all, it's the person running it, not the nuclear reactor that would cause death.

[regnaD kciN]

32. Reactors? What about nuclear weapons?

After all, nukes don't kill people, people kill people! :sarcasm:

[Sarah Ibarruri]

42. yip nt

[SteveM]

45. Self-righteous prohibitionists always draw opposition (nt)

[saigon68]

47. Not True the victims were DISRESPECTING the Shooter

He probably didn't want to get blood on his hands if he slashed their throats


Harborview Medical Center confirms that the teen who died is 16-year-old Daiquan L. Jones. The second victim, 16-year-old Jermaine McGowan, was initially listed in critical condition Saturday night, but was later upgraded to serious condition.

Both victims are well known to law enforcement. Jones just got out of jail on Friday. McGowan was due in court Monday on burglary charges.

[ben_meyers]

5. Maybe black men in their late teens to early 20s,

5-foot 6-inches tall and weighing 145 pounds, should be banned from legally owning guns and shooting up shopping malls.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

9. Why don't we allow the sale of nuclear reactors? Hey, it isn't the reactor that's the problem, it's

the person that owns the thing.

[Crunchy Frog]

19. Agree. I feel horribly repressed that I'm not allowed to have one of my own.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

22. It's just not fair! I mean it's not the reactor, it's the person running it!

:-)

[pipoman]

27. You have repeated the exact same comment in three different posts

as if it is some brilliant epiphany endowed upon your intellectual being, yet each time it sounds just as idiotic as the first. Use faulty analogies much? Guns = nuclear reactors as knives = hydroelectric generators?

[Sarah Ibarruri]

40. Yes, and no one has done anything but whine because it's true....

If it's not the murder implement, but the USER, why aren't machine guns allowed sold? Or nukes? Hmm? No answer, eh? Just whining. Lots of it.

[saigon68]

48. Nice straw man argument

[Sarah Ibarruri]

49. Wow, the straw man phrase comes out every time you have no answer, eh? nt

[pipoman]

63. Actually it comes out when a straw man arguement is made

maybe you should look at that?

A straw man argument is an informal fallacy based on misrepresentation of an opponent's position.<1> To "set up a straw man," one describes a position that superficially resembles an opponent's actual view, yet is easier to refute. Then, one attributes that position to the opponent. For example, someone might deliberately overstate the opponent's position.<1> While a straw man argument may work as a rhetorical technique—and succeed in persuading people—it carries little or no real evidential weight, since the opponent's actual argument has not been refuted.<2>

The term is derived from the practice in ages past of using human-shaped straw dummies in combat training. In such training, a scarecrow is made in the image of the enemy, sometimes dressed in an enemy uniform or decorated in some way to vaguely resemble them. A trainee then attacks the dummy with a weapon such as a sword, club, bow or musket. Such a target is, naturally, immobile and does not fight back, and is therefore not a realistic test of skill compared to a live and armed opponent. It is occasionally called a straw dog fallacy, scarecrow argument, or wooden dummy argument. In the UK, it is sometimes called Aunt Sally, with reference to a traditional fairground game.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

<1> To "set up a straw man," one describes a position that superficially resembles an opponent's actual view, yet is easier to refute. Then, one attributes that position to the opponent. For example, someone might deliberately overstate the opponent's position.

you said:

"If it's not the murder implement, but the USER,"

I have not said in this thread or in any other thread...ever...that it is never the "murder implement", infact the implement could be partially to blame in the case of an indiscriminate weapon such a a bomb used to target one person killing unintentional victims who were at the wrong place at the wrong time. In the case of a gun it is one round fired at a specific target. So with this statement you have effectively:

described my position so it superficially resembles my actual view, yet is easier to refute. Then, attributed that position to me.

and

your strawman carries little or no real evidential weight, since my actual argument has not been refuted.

Which makes your post a big, fat...

[merwin]

73. I LOVE that picture.

I'm going to have to use that one myself :)

[pipoman]

56. Really?

When you read a story of a drunk driver wiping out a family do you respond with "aren't cars lovely" or "isn't alcohol lovely"? If so you are in the minority. Most people respond with outrage at the drunk driver.

why aren't machine guns allowed sold? Or nukes? Hmm? No answer, eh?

This has been answered so many times I feel silly answering it yet again. Machine guns, nukes, land mines, grenades, tanks, mortars, etc. are all indiscriminate weapons. All on this list except nukes can and are owned privately in many states and are "allowed sold" (just guessing that this means legally transferred to private citizens). Wanna pretend that there are no answers to these very simply answered questions, be my guest.

Here's just one example of a machine gun available for sale to anyone who wishes to apply for the permit and can pass the background check.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=116698346

How about a grenade launcher?

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=116732230

[merwin]

74. I have a feeling that logical arguments will not help...

Some people are so intent on holding to their false beliefs that even when provided with data, statistics, facts, they refuse to allow their own opinions to be swayed, as it might cause their entire world view to come crashing down.

Sorry, that was a horrible run-on sentence.

[regnaD kciN]

34. Besides...

...when nukes are outlawed, only outlaws will have nukes!

[Sarah Ibarruri]

41. Yeah, that's it. so go right on ahead and sell nukes. Gun lovers say it's not the

murder implement, but the user, so why not?

[pipoman]

64. Have a link

to one single post ever posted on du where anyone said, "it's not the murder implement, but the user,"? Just one? I didn't think so. So here again we find you building yet another

[ben_meyers]

24. Fine lets use your example

A nuclear reactor "owned" by an Islamic nut case in Iran is the same thing as hundreds of nuclear reactors "owned" by the United States Navy to power submarines and other ships without incident since the mid 1950's.

You're damned right it's the person that owns the thing. I'm pretty confident that the thug doing the shooting at the mall didn't legally "own the thing".

[merwin]

25. This is more a mental health / societal issue than a "guns are bad" issue.

Canada has guns galore... why don't they have nearly the amount of shootings that we do? Watch Bowling for Columbine.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

43. Thank you for making my argument for me. If this is a country of mentally ill, why the F are we

promoting gun ownership? Also, I seriously doubt Canada has more guns per capita than they do here. The NRA's reps aren't flapping their lips daily over there.

[merwin]

55. 36% in the USA vs 22% in Canada.

Not that large of a difference, yet their gun violence is far lower.

You're solution is to take care of the gun and not help the people... what is stopping them from replacing guns with something else, like homemade explosives? Or, perhaps, illegal guns.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

60. But as I said, if we have a country of mental illness, why on earth would you want

guns freely sold and continuously defended and promoted? What is the point? They are exciting and a phallic symbol?

[pipoman]

67. Enjoying your posts

But as I said, if we have a country of mental illness,

You do realize that you are the only one saying this don't you? This could be yet another



or, even more troubling (for you), it may be Freudian Projection?

Then there is this..

They are exciting and a phallic symbol?

I am sure that there is a Freudian explanation for why gun control advocates often site their personal equation of guns to the penis. Not being a Freudian scholar nor a psychoanalyst, I'll leave that one to your mental health provider.

[Missy Vixen]

87. It must be fun for the members of the gungeon

to trot out their typical arguments. I'll bring another one into the equation. After all, they don't like having their guns equated with the size of their penises, even if the rest of us know the truth.

You love your gun(s) more than you love anything or anyone else. Period. It's good for those in your life to realize this, and conduct themselves accordingly. Those who are injured or die in yet another spree shooting are nothing more than "collateral damage" to you. After all, those who were killed or injured on Saturday don't matter at all. It's more important that just about anyone can still get a gun in the USA, and shoot whomever they'd like with it.

I can only feel sorry for someone who values an object more than flesh and blood people, but I'm sure this is considered a good thing in your world.

Julie

[pipoman]

88. You actually know nothing about me

you only have the notions brewed up by your own imagination. The fact that felons who are free to roam tend to commit more felonies/are victims of more felonies seems (from the news reports so far) to be the issue here. It must be a very simple world you live in to be able to summarily dismiss 50 to 80 million Americans (including 20-25 million women) away siting penis size as the answer. If that is the best explanation you can arrive at, you really do need the attention of a mental health professional.

I can only feel sorry for someone who values an object more than flesh and blood people,

Couldn't the same be argued about ATVs, motorcycles, cars, and swimming pools all which claim far more lives of children than firearms (firearms rank 13th to 16th depending on the year). How insensitive of you not to advocate for the banning of private swimming pools. You must value your own entertainment more than the lives of the thousands of children killed in these contraptions of death.

[Missy Vixen]

93. I know all I need to know about you and your fellow Gungeon residents

Again: You, and your fellow Gungeon residents, value the ability to carry and own a firearm -- an object -- more than flesh and blood people.

A gun is one of the only objects in our society (a cigarette the other) manufactured solely to kill.

It's too bad that those like yourself can't be truthful about the fact you really don't give a shit about anyone who dies as a result of gun violence. It's all about YOUR rights, isn't it?

Julie

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

96. I know people who make the same broad generalizations about black people, we call them racists.

[pipoman]

101. This exact same argument can and is made

to justify infringement on virtually every liberty enumerated in the Bill of Rights. There are minority groups who advocate limitation of rights under each and every amendment in the name of safety...I disagree with all of them.

Your argument revolves around "gun violence" while dismissing the fact that violence in general is the real issue. Without addressing the causes of violence it does not matter what implements are available to conduct violence. Surely you are not saying that in the absence of a firearm that the killer in the OP would not have targeted to kill the victims in this story anyway?

A gun is one of the only objects in our society (a cigarette the other) manufactured solely to kill.

If this were true we would have far more killing than we currently do. There are around 15,000 firearms related murders annually yet there are 50-80 million gun owners, this means that annually .03% (3 out of 10,000) of gun owners murder with their guns not taking into account that most murders are committed by people legally prohibited from owning a firearm who likely fall outside of the 50-80 million figure or multiple murders with the same gun. This means for every person who murders with a gun there are 9,997 gun owners who don't. These 50-80 million gun owners own around 200 million guns which gives us .0075% (7.5 per 100,000) of guns are used each year to commit murder (again not accounting for multiple murders with the same gun). This means for every firearm used to commit murder there are 99,992 which aren't used to commit murder. Your assertion fails.

Most guns are used by their owners for the same purpose backyard swimming pools, motorcycles, ATVs, etc. are used, as a form of entertainment.

These people would strongly disagree with your statement too..

http://www.olympic.org/uk/sports/programme/index_uk.asp?SportCode=SH

"Olympic history abounds with tales of athletes who overcame crippling adversity to win gold medals, but Karoly Takacs' comeback may be the best. Takacs was part of Hungary's world-champion pistol-shooting team in 1938 when an army grenade exploded in his right hand. Ten years later, he won the first two golds in rapid-fire pistol - after teaching himself to shoot left-handed.

In a sport where the bullseye looks about the size of the full stop at the end of this sentence, a sport where shooters compete amid a cacophony of noise and still concentrate on firing between heartbeats, Takacs' achievement tests the imagination.

From just three shooting events at the 1896 Olympic Games to 15 today, the sport has grown steadily. In part this leap can be ascribed to advances in the technology of firearms and equipment, which have led to constant changes in the shooting competition. But it can also be ascribed to the passion shooters have for their sport."

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

95. Why are you gun grabbers so infatuated with male genitalia?

[merwin]

71. Gun violence is only a symptom of a deeper issue.

Getting rid of the guns won't help if you don't treat the underlying cause.

It is obvious that guns aren't the underlying cause, since there are many other nations that allow guns that don't have anywhere near the crime rate that we do.

Treat the underlying cause of mental health, poverty, and racism and the gun violence issues will take care of themselves.

Most gun violence is not done by gun nuts who collect every weapon under the sun. It's done by the poor, the mentally ill, etc. Guns are just the tool that is used. Take away the guns and they will find another way to accomplish their goals.

I am all for gun control that requires people to pass a gun safety course, regulate the types of weapons that can be acquired, etc. But that is to prevent the accidental deaths and extreme wackos that want to destroy the country.

Do you REALLY think that banning guns will stop gangs from using them? REALLY?

[Sarah Ibarruri]

90. How about treat the deeper issue and don't allow guns until the issues are resolved?

I would feel much safer that way.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

91. The Constitution doesn't care how you feel.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

98. Absolutely. The Constitution is a piece of paper with some ideas some old men had

hundreds of years ago, which is why it has been amended. It's frequently archaic and non-pertinent, and sometimes just plain wrong. Some of its ideas can be used, and some cannot. That's why there are amendments.

[merwin]

100. You really think that the constitution is the right place to take away rights?

The problem is with the current interpretation of the second amendment, not the amendment itself.

It begins talking about the necessity of a well trained militia, which IS necessary if a revolt against the government is required. IMO, the amendment was written to protect from someone taking power, then taking away all means of defense, leaving the people in fear and unable to revolt.

It's not meant to allow gangs to blow the hell out of each other. I fully support mandatory life sentences for anyone using a gun in the process of a violent crime, as that is the complete opposite of what the second amendment was providing for.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

103. Gangs that posess their weapons illegally, of course.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

102. Feel free to try and change what you don't like about it.

Realize of course that any serious effort to remove the 2nd Amendment from the Constitution will cause irreparable harm to the Democratic Party.

David

[high density]

58. So if the guy decided to drive a car into the mall and plow people over...

Would you be for banning cars? There are always going to be deranged people, and we can't run or legislate the country by assuming everybody has massive mental issues.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

59. No more than I would want guns banned if they were necessary for transportation or putting food on

the table. Since they're not, I want them banned.

[merwin]

72. Tell that to the people who hunt for a living.

Just because you live in a city and don't need a gun to live doesn't mean that it is true for everyone.

[michreject]

77. Since that's never gonna happen

Get over it.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

92. People who are adjudicated mentally ill are barred from owning firearms.

[wordpix]

68. yeah, let's deregulate them more & let everyone get one without a background check (sarcasm)

[MadMaddie]

2. Shooting in a crowded mall

These punks should get hard core jail sentences if they are convicted. A message needs to be sent that this will not be tolerated.

[Ecumenist]

4. Girl, preach it. My heart dropped to read that it was a black man.

What is happening to people? People who do these kinds of things need to put UNDER the gaol house.

[foxfeet]

10. I feel the same heart drop,

as a gay man, whenever there's a report of child sexual abuse. I keep thinking, "Oh, please, not a boy," which is nonsensical because I certainly don't want the victim to be a girl, either. But straight men never seem to be on the receiving end of attacks from the bigots because some scumbag molested a child of the opposite sex; just like white men generally are never automatically assumed to be criminals. Off topic, I know, but I identified so strongly with your post, I needed to point out the parallels.

[Ecumenist]

17. Not a problem, I completely understand, Foxfeet.

I am a survivor of childhood sexual abuse and can completely understand things from both sides of the picture. This old world is just overfull of crazy and outright evil people who think nothing of visiting pain and suffering on their fellow man just because they can. BTW, a belated welcome to DU; glad to have ya!!:pals: :hug:

[foxfeet]

23. Thanks for the warm welcome!

I agree-- the world is full of crazy and evil people who think nothing of inflicting pain on others. Why would any sane person want to do that? At least we can support each other here (well, at least sometimes:P .)

:pals:

[SteveM]

44. Your view of "white men" seems prejudiced...

"straight men never seem to be on the receiving end of attacks from the bigots" and "white men generally are never automatically assumed to be criminals."

Just 2 days ago a straight man in the Austin, Texas area died as the result of being struck repeatedly by attackers wielding a baseball bat. The motivation for murder? Just to do it and brag about it later.

There are large numbers of white men who are not only assumed to be criminal, but are convicted as such.

Your prejudiced view of white men underwrites much of the animosity expressed through the "gun-control" movement, so in reality your posting is not "off topic" but goes to the core of this front in the culture war.

[foxfeet]

50. I AM white.

I will grant you that my error was in the use of the word "never" in my post. Anything is possible.

Was the victim of the assault attacked because he was straight, or perceived to be straight? If not then it was not a case of a straight man being attacked by anti-heterosexual bigots (I will allow that he could have been attacked by prejudiced individuals for some personal characteristic other than heterosexuality.)

And stand by my assertion that black men, especially young black men, are far more likely to be perceived as criminals than are white men as a group, the cast of "Cops" notwithstanding. Also, the rate of incarceration is likewise much higher for black men then for white men.

[MadMaddie]

65. There is something very wrong with these young men

the one that died...he just got out of jail last Friday. His momma said he was a good boy.:wtf:

These teens are slapped on the wrist when they commit crimes and they are in the revolving door of the justice system. These kids know right from wrong, something will have to change if this is going to stop.

[gort]

70. We had a very violent weekend in Seattle...

and nearly all the people involved were under the age of 23...

Excerpt:
11 shot, three killed in weekend of violence
By CASEY MCNERTHNEY AND BRAD WONG
P-I REPORTERS

The shooting that evacuated Westfield Southcenter was just one part of a violent weekend in King County.

Eleven people were shot in five separate incidents, and one man was stabbed -- all within a 36-hour period. Three of the victims died.

In the latest incident, two people were shot Sunday night in the parking lot of the New Star Mini-mart in the 8600 block of Rainier Avenue South.

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/389118_shooting24.html

[MadMaddie]

76. I live on the Eastside of Seattle

I have been watching the news too.

They just spent millions renovating that mall where the shooting took place.

Senseless killings...

[Sebastian Doyle]

6. Fear operations at the mall..... not the first time

Similar incident at the Tacoma Mall a couple years back. And wasn't there an attempted abduction of a woman at some mall in the area too?

Nothing like a little fear just in time for Xmas shopping. :eyes:

[Tripper11]

7. Holy crap...I was just there around 1pm

Son and I out doing a little window shopping. Stopped and had some lunch in the food court, then left. Came home for a nap, but wow.freaky to miss this by a couple hours.
It's actually Westfield Mall...south center is the whole area of shopping, not the mall itself.

[oldnslo]

28. Westfield?

To the south, in Vancouver, what used to be called Vancouver Mall, or Vanmall, was re-named Westfield Shoppingtown when Westfield bought it. That name rubs everybody the wrong way around here. "Shoppingtown" just sounds silly to most people around here.

[regnaD kciN]

33. Westfield has bought up tons of shopping malls...

...and, in each case, immediately changed the name from "XXX Mall" to "Westfield Shoppingtown XXX."

The place where the shooting occurred used to be known as Southcenter Mall, now it's Westfield Shoppingtown Southcenter. I don't know if this is the case in other parts of the country, but, around here, people just go on calling it the name it had long before Westfield took it over. Similarly, down in Olympia, Westfield Shoppingtown Capital is still pretty universally known as Capital Mall.

[Hannah Bell]

36. No, "Westfield" is the name of the corporation that bought the shopping

mall that was named "Southcenter" when it was built in the 60's & for the next 40 years.

[jody]

11. Odds are the criminal when convicted will be sentenced for possessing a firearm when committing a

crime and allowed to serve that sentence concurrently with the other sentence.

IMO our laws should be mandatory that a sentence for using a firearm should be served consecutively with other time and NOT CONCURRENTLY!
:mad:

[spindrifter]

30. Firearm enhancement sentences run CONSECUTIVELY here

in Washington. There is no "good time" allowed on them, either.

[jody]

37. Thanks for the info. Do you have a cite so I can use WA in the future as a reference? n/t

[spindrifter]

51. You can read it here:

http://www.sgc.wa.gov/PUBS/Adult_Manual/Manual_2007_Section_I.pdf

[jody]

53. Thanks. n/t

[regnaD kciN]

35. When the main charge is premeditated murder...

...I don't think it matters much whether the firearms sentence runs concurrently or consecutively.

[Crunchy Frog]

18. Well, at least their 2nd Ammendment rights are intact.

They should count their blessings.

Now if they had only been packing heat of their own, this whole thing could have been avoided.

[Pavulon]

20. first fourth,

just ban it all, like dope. it will all work its self out. every shooting is a con law case now.

[JackInGreen]

38. I'm trying not to get too involved in this

discussion. But please, I would like to know.
Are you serious?

I'm unsure as to the lead "First Fourth", thats a touch confusing for me, but the "just ban it all, like dope. it will all work its self out. every shooting is a con law case now."....I haven't heard of any gun cases being a constitutional law case, and I don't really think that the drug war has been working itself out.

Could you explain.
I know its passionate in here, and a very serious subject for some, but I would like a cogent argument to back up your claim.

[oldnslo]

54. Ban like Dope, NOT

Banning like dope, just might have the same result as banning dope-- proliferation beyond belief. Americans , collectively, are not yet willing. We probably won't see it in our lifetimes, not even some of you young 'uns.

[Barrett808]

26. Update: One of the victims has died. Shooter still at large. n/t

[spindrifter]

29. I wonder if this had anything to do with

the shooting last night at a restaurant in Skyway? Southcenter has had a couple of shootings in the last several months. The previous one was just outside the mall itself.

[uppityperson]

31. That is too bad, am sorry for the people who were shot and those around them.

[slackmaster]

39. Sounds like someone has an anger management problem

I hope he gets locked up and helped before he kills someone else.

[saigon68]

62. Hey Slack just a few Homies throwing the wrong gang signs

Harborview Medical Center confirms that the teen who died is 16-year-old Daiquan L. Jones. The second victim, 16-year-old Jermaine McGowan, was initially listed in critical condition Saturday night, but was later upgraded to serious condition.

Both victims are well known to law enforcement. Jones just got out of jail on Friday. McGowan was due in court Monday on burglary charges.

[slackmaster]

78. My Sympathy Meter has just dropped to near zero

:nuke:

[SteveM]

46. Is this mall a posted "gun-free zone?" (nt)

[LanternWaste]

52. And people wonder....

And people wonder why I do my best do avoid gun owners...

[JonQ]

57. If only he'd driven an explosive filled SUV

in to the mall and killed everyone, then it would be his fault. And anyone who lambasted the US for allowing private ownership of automobiles or fertilizer would be deemed a nut, reacting emotionally rather than logically.

As is the gun clearly filled his mind with evil thoughts and forced to him to do it, so we must ban guns.

[Paladin]

61. Yeah, But He Didn't.

And your desperate wishful thinking won't make it so.....

[merwin]

75. I think you missed the entire point of the post.

That people think differently about the same crime because of the weapon used.

If the weapon is an explosive-filled SUV (such as is used in the Middle-East all the time), then it's the person that's the problem. If it's a gun, then the gun is to blame, not the whackjob that is firing it.

I feel ridiculous having to explain this, but whatever...

[JonQ]

79. Bingo

exactly what I was trying to say. Thank you.

[Paladin]

97. I Got The Point Of The Post A Lot Better Than You Did.

Trying to inject an explosive-loaded SUV is nothing more than the same old distraction game played by gun militants on threads such as this, over and over. It's as common as it is transparent as it is uneffectrive...

[merwin]

99. How so? Please explain how the weapon used is different.

I am far from a gun militant. I own zero guns. My parents had guns, and I did target practice... enough to have a healthy respect for guns. I want my son to take gun safety courses so he can have the same respect for a gun.

What is the significant difference between a desperate person with an explosive-loaded SUV and a desperate person with a gun? Both can be used safely and have a purpose. Both can be abused to harm others.

Please explain what I'm missing, because I honestly want to understand.

[JonQ]

104. I don't think you did

the point was that the weapon seems to matter to some people for whatever reason. A different logic is applied when guns are used to commit murder than when any other item is used. Why? Are the people more dead if they're killed with a firearm? Are there more deaths attributed to guns than any other factor?

I am seriously asking you this question: why do firearm related deaths always result in a chorus of "ban ban ban" ignoring the person responsible, whereas any other kind of murder weapon is deemed irrelevant and the blame lies solely on the murderer?

[doc03]

69. Hey the story also says he had a black

pistol. Gee it wasn't an assault weapon, well we will just have to outlaw black pistols now.:sarcasm:

[JonQ]

80. Black weapons

are far deadly than other colors. Fuschia is by far the safetest color gun to be shot with (when was the last time you heard of someone being killed by a fuschia gun?).

[Aristus]

66. I suggest swift and merciless punishment.

Such as exiling these assholes to places like Texas and Florida where shit like this is actually encouraged by law. :grr::mad::nuke:

[JonQ]

81. Yes

the laws in Texas strongly encourages murder. That's why we don't do anything to punish murderers (like say, by executing them).

[Aristus]

82. Well, if the Southcenter shooter did this in Texas or Florida, he could plead to the judge

that he "felt threatened", and get off scot-free. And the whole concealed weapon thing would put public opinion in those states firmly on his side.

Am I wrong about any of this?

[slackmaster]

83. Yes, you are wrong about Texas and Florida law

There is a standard of reasonableness that must be met for a "felt threatened" defense to be valid.

And the whole concealed weapon thing would put public opinion in those states firmly on his side.

The state of Washington has the same kind of concealed-carry laws as Texas, Florida, and most other states.

[Aristus]

84. Yeah, but not the idiotic cowboy image so many of them feel compelled to live up to.

I was born and raised in Texas. I know the prevailing attitudes regarding guns, cowboys, "rugged individualism", and largely fact-free legends.

In many Texas junior high schools, the Texas state history textbook is three times the size of the U.S. history textbook.

[JonQ]

86. Could you point out one law

that "encourages" anyone to fire at unarmed people, in a public place, posing absolutely no threat to anyone, and committing no crimes?

You can shoot people who are breaking in to your house if you feel threatened, but I'd say a mall is not where this person lived, nor was it his property anyway.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

94. Really? How many of those cowboys (not the football team) shoot unarmed people every year?

[JonQ]

85. Yes, you are wrong

and clearly very ignorant about Texas.

[anonymous171]

89. lol these threads are so funny. Too bad about those guys though.

:(