Vatican Forgives John Lennon for Jesus Quip

[BeatleBoot]

Source: ABC News

VATICAN CITY (Reuters) - The Vatican's newspaper has finally forgiven John Lennon for declaring that the Beatles were more famous than Jesus Christ, calling the remark a "boast" by a young man grappling with sudden fame.

The comment by Lennon to a London newspaper in 1966 infuriated Christians, particularly in the United States, some of whom burned Beatles' albums in huge pyres.

But time apparently heals all wounds.

"The remark by John Lennon, which triggered deep indignation mainly in the United States, after many years sounds only like a 'boast' by a young working-class Englishman faced with unexpected success, after growing up in the legend of Elvis and rock and roll," Vatican daily Osservatore Romano said.



Read more: http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory?id=6313228

---

Glad to see The Church catching up with society...

[Xipe Totec]

1. Who's this Jesus Christ chap? n/t

[BeatleBoot]

2. It's Jesus Quip

for Christ's sake!

[Xipe Totec]

4. Quip?

Any relation to the O'Quips from Islington?

[BeatleBoot]

16. Kissing cousins

is the word on the street...

We'll see.

You know how these things go....

[minnesota_liberal]

33. The Quaker cereal mascot

... who always fought with rival Quake

[BeatleBoot]

34. You mean Quisp - My Favorite Cereal!

As a kid!




And man, was it loaded with sugar!

[earthside]

60. Down With You!

Quake!



Even more sugar for growing tots!

[underpants]

3. Way to get right on that

[vanboggie]

5. Gawd they still have it out of context

But then the vatican has always had problems interpreting things correctly.

[Captain Hilts]

25. Exactly - he did NOT say the remark boastfully. nt

[AlbertCat]

26. Yes, it wasn't a boast....and it was TRUE!

[No Elephants]

52. Right Not a boast He was floored. And, at the time, it was true..

[USA_1]

57. ''the vatican has always had problems interpreting things correctly.''

And John Lennon wasn't even Catholic!

[Deja Q]

6. Will they forgive him for being a bully and philanderer and a heckler of the disabled?

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51D48iV4a0L._BO2,204,203,200_PIsitb-sticker-arrow-click,TopRight,35,-76_AA240_SH20_OU01_.jpg

The Vatican is probably apologizing only to draw attention away from their molestation problems.

[Ecumenist]

7. That's mighty white of them.

[dixiegrrrrl]

8. Too late. The Mormons already converted him after he died.

You know, the soul-napping sect that they are.

[marmar]

9. Can a see a show of hands of those who give a frog's fat ass what the Vatican has to say?

They've long ceased being relevant.

[goddess40]

10. I'll second that

Who gives a rats ass what the Vatican has to say. Even my Catholic relatives and friends pick and choose what to believe and do from what the pope has to say - even though the pope is supposed to be infallible.

[scytherius]

11. Who GIVES a good goddamn?

Every single day, just like the Republican party, religion proves itself more idiotic and irrelevant.

[Zhade]

12. Hey, at least Lennon actually existed.

NT!

[Warren Stupidity]

14. .

[Pale Blue Dot]

31. ...

:rofl:

[Patchuli]

39. Deja Vu Zhade

We've been here before. You're entitled to your beliefs but Jesus Christ existed also, whether you like it or not. It matter s not what you don't believe to those of us who do...

John Lennon had the right idea in pointing out that people were making more of the Beatles than their Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ regardless of his own ideology. I agree that the Catholic Church are run by dumbfucks.

[Zhade]

42. There's no extrabiblical evidence. Sorry, even biblical scholars conclude josephus was a forgery.

And people who "made fun" of jesus don't have a savior. You have to choose to have one to have one.

[Baby Snooks]

49. What we really need...

What we really need is a savior to save us from all the people trying to save us. I wrote off Catholics as well as the Catholic Church when I realized that instead of spending billions to help those who cannot help themselves the Catholic Church was spending billions to silence its victims. Not the first time it has done so. And probably won't be the last. Sorry but I have come to the conclusion that people who blindly follow their church suffer from some sort of mental illness.

[Celeborn Skywalker]

62. So I guess 80% of Hispanics

suffer from a mental illness?

[RaleighNCDUer]

90. Have you ever seen a parade of flagellents carrying 400lb crosses

down the street as their friends whip them?

That is NOT a mental illness?

[Celeborn Skywalker]

94. That's different.

That's a Catholic equivalent of fundamentalism. I took issue with the post because he wrote off all Catholics as having a mental illness. It's perfectly fine to criticize the Catholic Church but when one makes a broad brushed statement about ANY group of people, it is bigoted.

[RaleighNCDUer]

95. Look at it with an open mind, my friend,

and you will see it is all a matter of degree.

The flagellants and their ilk are those whose belief is the weakest, not the strongest, and they are taking desperate measures to convince themselves of beliefs which have no basis in reality. It's not that they DO believe, but that they WANT to believe.

So are those who believe without such extreme measures really LESS nuts than them?

Is it bigoted to worry that the 85% who believe in one version of a sky ghost are going to push the button because of the 85% who believe in a different version of a sky ghost BECAUSE of the differences in belief in something that doesn't exist?

Every day I live in the no-man's land between the country that opens its eggs on the small end, and the country that opens its eggs on the large end. Each side knows that the other is nuts - and neither knows that BOTH are nuts.

[RaleighNCDUer]

89. I first came to appreciate the reality of the Catholic church when my

dad was stationed in Spain - I was 12 or so. We went to a cathedral in Cadiz and in that cathedral was a 3' high replica cathedral, made of gold and inset with jewels. Literally worth millions.

We walked past beggars on the cathedral steps to go inside.

No one I've ever talked to has been able to justify that. And that is when I first gave up on religion.

[Patchuli]

71. And you can choose to be saved or not

Biblical scholars can kiss my um, Bible.

Bless you just the same, Zhade!O8)

[Zhade]

79. Yeah, facts can kiss your ass. Whatever.

Just because you don't like the facts, it doesn't mean they're not true.

[Patchuli]

85. Just because you think your ideas are the "facts"

doesn't mean they are true either. Think however you want, it's your prerogative but maybe you'll learn to treat your fellow human's belief with a little of the respect that's given to you and your gloomy ideas of the "facts."

[happyslug]

87. Prior to the introduction of linen paper in the 1300s, our records of most people are limited.

People tend NOT to realized HOW few records we have of anybody prior to about 1300 (and the printing press was NOT possible with linen paper, parchment, the primary "paper" of pre-linen days, was just to expensive to be used except in the form of one copy at a time. Each page could indicate a dead animal, for that is what parchment is, a writing material derived from the skin of animals (Generally the animal was butchered for other reasons but the skin was saved for use as a writing source). Parchment had been used by the Egyptians but it seems to have deteriorated quite rapidly in areas outside of Egypt (Through Parchment has been found even in Roman Occupied Britain, but seems to have been used a a cheap substitute for Parchment for practice writing OR for notes NOT to be kept for more then a year or two).

As to the fact we have NO first hand accounts of Jesus is, at best, a weak argument. Do to the limitations of paper and writing we have very few first hand accounts of anyone prior to the 1300s. Hannibal, for example, is reported by two writers, both of whom wrote more then 60 years after he was dead (And for Families who wanted to show how well their did in the war against Hannibal then anything else). Alexander the Great we have one writer who worked with him, but again he seems to have been hired as a propagandist by Alexander then a true historians (And later broke with Alexander and wrote his piece more as an anti-Alexander piece then a Pro-Alexander piece). Archimedes we have the same problem, he was dead long before the Romans wrote about him, and the Roman Reports we do have was written long after ward.

Socrates wrote NOTHING down, all we about him is he reports of his student Plato. In the Third Century we have a "History" of Roman Emperors, which historians openly question, but it is the only list of several of the Emperors of that Century (When the Roman Empire almost collapsed). The Norse saga, of the Norsemen movement into the New World was written by a German over 100 years later.

My point is simple, the lack of a First hand account prior to the 1300s proves nothing. As long as the story could be continued without introducing excessive errors it was common to repeat stories over and over again. Homer wrote his three "books" (The Iliad, the Odyssey, and the Returns, of the returns we have only fragments) at least three centuries before they were written down. I mention him to show that once something is formed into a narrative, it can survive among a group of people for centuries without excessive errors creeping into the story. The problem with the Gospels is that they were written at a time when such errors were creeping in and the early follows of Christ wanted to prevent that from happening. Mark seems to have been added do to errors that had occurred in the other three Gossips (Which unlike Mark are viewed as being ALL derived from a now lost book, probably a book of Christ's teaching, but in a list form as opposed to the narrative form of the four Gospels). Furthermore while St Paul did NOT meet Christ during Christ's lifetime, according to the New Testament Paul did meet the 12 Apostles and even argued with St Peter. Luke who wrote about St Paul and St Peter, is believed to have been a follower of St Paul (Thus only three persons away from Christ). Furthermore, St Paul's letters indicate a strong understanding of what Christ said, thus he had to be exposed to those ideas (Through St Paul's letter is followed by St James who clearly points out that Faith alone can NOT get someone into heaven, good works are needed (St Paul is noted for taking the Position that Good Works are NOT needed, a position St James AND the Gospels clearly reject).

My point is simple, given the technology of the time, it is a note of HOW important Christ's message was to his early followers that they decided to write them down with 70 years of his death. It is a statement that they thought it was important to write it down and there seem to use versions that everyone agreed that Christ has said (Thus removing most of the errors that had crept into the Gospels). It is also noted that just because we have NO first hand account of this life is meaningless, that was NOT considered important at that time and would NOT be considered important till long after the invention of the Printing Press around 1350 AD. Just a comment that one should NOT use the lack of first hand accounts to attack the existence of Christ, someone said the concepts brought forth in the Gospels and the other explanations for the concepts are even more unbelievable than the concept that a person preached for three years those same concepts.

One last comment: On Josephus, his account is NOT in the existing Greek version of his book, "The Jewish war". It is in the Slovak version. The Bible was translated into what is called Church Slovak in the 9th Century as part of the process to convert the Slavs to Christianity. Two schools of thought has gone into the debate. First that during the translation the Christian Monk added the reference to Christ. The problem with this theory is first the explanations is NOT proper Christian Doctrine, and why would a Monk vary from Christian Doctrine if he is adding a concept about Christ? A second problem with this is the change is the story of how Josephus managed to survive his own death pack. In the existing Greek Version, Josephus is the last person alive after everyone one else in his unit had agreed to kill each other (Which is the actual story, it was NOT mass suicide, but mass murder, as the people who pulled the lot had to kill the others and then pull lots again and those who lost had to kill the others, and this worked over an over again till only one person was left and he was thus the only person condemned to commit actual suicide). In the Greek Version Josephus is the last person left alive by the Grace of God, he then defects to the Romans. In the Slovak version Josephus counts the bodies and make sure he is the last person alive and then defects to the Romans.

Why the Differences? If the scholars who believe the Slovak version is an medieval add on, that conclusions is based on the fact the Slovak version is clearly a translation NOT just a coping. Thus if a Monk wanted to add that is the time to add it. Given that the Greek Version does NOT mention Christ the Slovak version must have had those parts added at the time of translation, for most of the book is the same.

The alternative theory is that Josephus wrote a Greek version of what is now the Slovak Version first. The purpose of the books was NOT to sell books, but to have the book read to various people in large groups so those people would then praise Josephus action to the Emperor, whose father Josephus had aided in the Jewish war. It was part of the plan to get a larger pension. The problem was Josephus wrote, what we now call the Slovak version, First and found that parts of it was NOT getting favorable treatment by the people hearing it. He then tried to pull those versions back and rewrote the book, rewriting the book to the present Greek version. Remove the idea that he cunningly calculated how to save himself and defect to the Romans and made it the act of God, and removed the reference to the Christians do to the clear errors in his understanding (and rather then correct the error just removed the section, remember he was looking for an increase pension NOT writing for posterity). In the 9th Century some Slovak ruler heard about Josephus and wanted to read it himself but in Slovak, and he wanted the version with Christ in it NOT the one without Christ. Thus the translation to Slovak.

I am sorry I lean to the later rationale, i.e. the Slovak version was a translation of an earlier version of the existing Greek Version. Josephus probably made an effort to destroy all of the earlier versions, but what if one version was in the hands of the Emperor Himself? The Emperor might have kept it to show the world why he did NOT increase Josephus's pension, and later on just stayed in the hands of the Roman Rulers till the Fall of Constantinople in 1453 (or in 1204 when Constantinople was sacked by the Fourth Crusade). The Work may have been taken by the Vandals in 460 AD (The earlier Gothic Sacking only lasted three days and restricted as to what could be taken) which last 60 days. Then when the Vandals was destroyed by Emperor Justinian in the early 6th Century the work went to Constantinople where is stayed till destroyed in the 1204 sacking of that city of the Fourth Crusade, or in 1453 when the Turks took it. Thus the book existed in Constantinople in the 9th Century when efforts to convert the Slavs was in play.

I can NOT exclude the possibility of forgery in the 9th Century, but the changes do NOT make sense in that time period. Josephus was long dead, they was jewish influence in the Khazars at that time period, but the Khazars were east of present day Ukraine, while the effort to convert Slaves was in right is now Croatia/the Czech Republic and Serbia NOT the Ukraine. Now an argument could be made the changes as to Josephus survival may have been an attempt to undermine the Khazars, who had converted to Judaism at about the same time, but that was a distance from the area the Slavs were operating in and Slavic (Basically Farmers) and the Khazars (Basically herders) had already become mutually oppose to each other while before Christianity, Judaism or Islam had reached any of them. The problem is why add a bad story about Christ and change how Josephus survived if the Government of Constantinople was trying to prevent conversion to Judaism? It does NOT make sense, but sometime why people do things do not make sense. Thus I can NOT rule out that the Slovak version has forged parts (I.e. the parts that different from the existing Green Version).

[Political Heretic]

93. Wow. This was a pretty thorough crushing of the "no evidence of jesus" meme

I don't really have a dog in this fight, but as a neutral observer, I gotta say - you win this one.

[stlsaxman]

80. you're assuming that Jesus was John Lennon's Lord and Savior...

(or anyones for that matter), is totally beyond your place in life.

[Patchuli]

86. I don't assume for anyone but myself

but I do take offense at the Christian-bashing that goes on as regularly on DU as the fat-bashing but also gets little attention.

As for John, I did understand what he meant when he said it. The whole quote makes it even clearer.

[stlsaxman]

88. Bullshit- "more of the Beatles than their Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ"

how do you know JC was "their Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ"? you don't. you assumed it.

and i'm NOT bashing "Christians" here, or "fat people". i can't assume that John was Christian, Bhuddist, Hindi or Athiest but i can take him at his word or words-

i suggest you do the same...

God
John Lennon

God is a concept
By which we measure
Our pain
I'll say it again
God is a concept
By which we measure
Our pain

I don't believe in magic
I don't believe in I-ching
I don't believe in Bible
I don't believe in tarot
I don't believe in Hitler
I don't believe in Jesus
I don't believe in Kennedy
I don't believe in Buddha
I don't believe in Mantra
I don't believe in Gita
I don't believe in Yoga
I don't believe in kings
I don't believe in Elvis
I don't believe in Zimmerman
I don't believe in Beatles
I just believe in me
Yoko and me
And that's reality

The dream is over
What can I say?
The dream is over
Yesterday
I was the Dreamweaver
But now I'm reborn
I was the Walrus
But now I'm John
And so dear friends
You'll just have to carry on
The dream is over

[Patchuli]

98. I took John exactly at his word

and was stating what I deduced that he meant by his statement. I was not saying that John was a believer although his original statement was that he thought Jesus was pretty cool but his followers who re- or misinterpreted his words were the problem.

Since you've run off on this tangent and misinterpreted my thoughts, let's let it be, shall we? America is a country founded on religious tolerance and that goes for those of you who are not Christian as well as those of us that are. I responded to Zhade's usual intolerance and disrespect towards Christian faith, not to have a general theological discussion.

[Warren Stupidity]

13. Whew!

I've been holding my breath for 42 years waiting for that to happen.

[FarLeftRage]

15. Actually it was the southern baptists that a bigger cow

over what Lennon said than the Catholic church.

And they, along with all the other fundies have never forgiven John for his statement.

[Roland99]

17. Jesus... arrogant much? Freakin' morans at the Vatican. It was TRUE when he said it!

They NEVER understood what he meant and they STILL don't understand what he meant.


Fucking.


Idiots.

[Sinti]

18. I wonder if Lennon would forgive them

for innumerable horrors and injustices they've committed and continue to support.

[liberalmuse]

19. How nice of them.

I'm sure John Lennon would tell the Pope to piss off, but, you know, he's DEAD, so I'll tell the Pope and his pedophilic underlings to piss off.

[rocktots]

37. How about Paul?

But will they forgive Paul,George, and Ringo for being "more popular"???

[struggle4progress]

40. In 1966, "Paul is dead" was common knowledge

[babydollhead]

81. 28 years after his murder, and John Lennon is STILL

more popular then Jesus.

[lisa58]

20. already?

[Crunchy Frog]

21. Well, I don't forgive the Vatican for holding a grudge for over 40 years,

nearly 30 of which, the person in question wasn't even alive. :eyes:

[Hissyspit]

22. He didn't need your fucking forgiveness.

Assholes.

And they're STILL misinterpreting what he was saying.

[bleever]

23. Yep.

And John forgave them years ago.

[Mrs. Overall]

24. Isn't that special....

[Deep13]

27. That suggests Lennon did something wrong.

Anyway, he wasn't a Catholic, so who the fuck cares what the RC church thinks.

[bluesmail]

28. Too bad it's too late. But, oh never mind what I was going to say...

[donco6]

29. Lennon Reminds Vatican He Doesn't Give a Shit.

Amen.

[CatholicEdHead]

30. Wow, this is really fast by Vatican standards

This should have not been released for two or three more centuries.

[dweller]

32. god, that must have been painful getting over ...

God

God is a Concept by which
we measure our pain
I'll say it again
God is a Concept by which
we measure our pain
I don't believe in magic
I don't believe in I-ching
I don't believe in Bible
I don't believe in Tarot
I don't believe in Hitler
I don't believe in Jesus
I don't believe in Kennedy
I don't believe in Buddha
I don't believe in Mantra
I don't believe in Gita
I don't believe in Yoga
I don't believe in Kings
I don't believe in Elvis
I don't believe in Zimmerman
I don't believe in Beatles
I just believe in me...and that reality

The dream is over
What can I say?
the Dream is Over
Yesterday
I was the Dreamweaver
But now I'm reborn
I was the Walrus
But now I'm John
and so dear friends
you'll just have to carry on
The Dream is over

John Lennon


dp

[OwnedByFerrets]

35. You sanctimonious bastards. LOLOL

[WannaJumpMyScooter]

36. I bet he does not care

one bit

[Norton]

38. John kicked arse on Joan with the Roman Catholics forgiveness program!

Joan of Arc Burned at stake- May 30, 1431
Beatified (forgiven)-May 16, 1921

[Norton]

41. Okay, I did some homework...

Joan, at the request of her mother, was retried legitimately July 7, 1456 and found innocent.

FYI- Joan's is one of the greatest stories in history, (herstory)... Amazing woman!

[Zhade]

43. Indeed. It's amazing that a schizophrenic woman rose so high so fast.

A fascinating study in both insanity and the credulity of the average human.

[happyslug]

83. There is NO evidence that Joan was schizophrenic.

Schizophrenia is centered around delusions and disjointed thinking, NOT hearing voices. Now hallucination are a sign of Schizophrenia but only if part of the delusions or disjointed thinking the person is operating under (The voices tell me to kill you because you are evil for you hate my dog). Hallucinations is NOT the primary indication of Schizophrenia and at best a minor problem in Schizophrenia, compared to the delusions and disjointed thinking. My point is if you want to attack her for hearing voices, make that attack, don't use Psychological terms for the WRONG CONDITION.

Furthermore Joan was to young to be Schizophrenic. Males tend to show the first signs of Schizophrenia in the early 20s (The age Joan was when she died) but females the age tend to be about 30. No reason is presently known why this difference is age, through recent MRI studies indicate it may be do to the fact when it comes to memory, men's brain show a definite use of one side of the brain over the other, while women tend to use both MUCH more equally.

For more on Schizophrenia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schizophrenia

For more on Hallucinations:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hallucination

As to insanity, that was NEVER proved nor alleged during her lifetime. The reason was simple, even today a person can suffer from Schizophrenia (Or other mental impairments) and still be perfectly sane. Wilson Churchill, for example, is considered a classic case of Bi-Polar condition (Formerly called Manic-Depression). He pulled some of his worse mistakes when he was depressed (His order for the British Navy to sink the French Fleet as it sat in port is the best example of such bad thinking).

The scary part is the connection between Schizophrenia and Genius, the connection has been noted for centuries, why there is a connection no one knows.

[RaleighNCDUer]

91. That just shows you not to underestimate

schizophrenics with swords.

[Castleman]

44. I'd like to say for John:

Well thanks a whole fucking lot.

[JohnnyCougar]

45. It took them this long?

Doesn't Jesus teach forgiveness? Really, this just shows how out of touch they are.

One could make an encyclopedia about the various hypocrisies of the Catholic Church.

[David__77]

46. Oooo how magnanimous, decades later...

Perhaps in a few centuries, they can apologize for their current grave errors.

[undeterred]

77. Well, I was going to say decades is pretty fast for the Catholic Church.

I predict they'll consider ordaining women in the 45th century after Christ.

[DeltaLitProf]

47. A reminder

. . . that it was a mentally ill fundamentalist Christian who killed him.

[moggie]

48. The Pope went on to say that HE is the walrus

[Vinca]

50. People are dying of hunger in the world and they're still stewing

about John Lennon. I'm sure John would have preferred they keep their panties in a knot over the remark.

[Ian David]

51. At last, our long, national nightmare is over. Thank you, Pope Ratso. n/t

[mikita]

55. seconded n/t

[2Design]

53. truth does have a way of coming to light n/t

[Arkana]

54. Well, gee, Pope Palpatine, seeing as how the guy's DEAD...

[northsongs]

56. I'm sure John is happier now ...

knowing the Vatican has 'forgiven' him...after all, it was John who suggested that 'God is a concept, by which we measure our pain.'

Also, I'm thinking this may apply also, from Give Me Some Truth...

I'm sick and tired of hearing things
From uptight, shortsighted, narrow-minded hypocrites

All I want is the truth
Just gimme some truth

Lennon makes way more sense than the Vatican ever will...

[iamahaingttta]

58. The full quote...

"Christianity will go. It will vanish and shrink. I needn't argue with that; I'm right and I will be proved right. We're more popular than Jesus now; I don't know which will go first — rock and roll or Christianity. Jesus was all right, but his disciples were thick and ordinary. It's them twisting it that ruins it for me."

[mrdmk]

70. Thank you for the full quote!

Now it is apparent why the Catholic Church (i.e. the Vatican) is so pissed.

the pseudo-offending quote:

"... Jesus was all right, but his disciples were thick and ordinary. It's them twisting it that ruins it for me."

The real truth here; there is nothing to forgive, unless the Pope declares himself to be one of Jesus's disciples. That would be a real debate in the religious community.

[cambie]

75. Jesus was all right

Or put another way:

“I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.”
- Mahatma Gandhi

"Thick and ordinary"! Lennon is describing the current pope from the grave.

[MindPilot]

59. I'm sure the vatican will realize their mistake and retract.

Once the Pope hears about that "Imagine" song. And in a few decades he'll be really pissed about the billboards.

[mantis49]

61. How Christian of them!

:sarcasm:

[LibDemAlways]

63. How ridiculously cringeworthy. No one at the Vatican

apparently understood the quote in the first place. Lennon's been dead almost 28 years, and if he were alive, he'd be having nothing more than a good laugh over this.

[Phred42]

64. Phuck the Vatican

[Wind Dancer]

65. My goodness....

What a relief - I feel so much better now! :eyes:

[lunatica]

66. Decades after Jesus had a good chuckle at the comment and

probably found nothing to forgive. His teachings were all about being like him, not being better than everyone.

[mdmc]

67. kick

[GoddessOfGuinness]

68. Who's going to forgive the Vatican for the genocide, the culture theft,

the rape, the torture, and the enslavery of various people over the centuries?

Have they ever asked for forgiveness? Do they dare suggest that these things were the work of God?

[yasmina27]

69. Oh goody

that makes me feel SO much better! <snark>

[lovuian]

72. Who the hell are they to forgive

Let it BE

[goforit]

73. Who the hell is the Vatican to forgive anyone!!! Up theirs!!!

[HockeyMom]

74. This was over 40 years ago

Than man has been dead for over 20 years. Let him and his memory rest in peace. I really doubt that he would care if the Vatican has forgiven him. At the most he would just have a good laugh over it.

[hbskifreak]

76. Catholic Church's Forgiveness???

Please bear with me until I get to my point, I can be a bit long-winded.

I think that salvation is personal and if I, as a non-believer, act in what believers would classify as 'a sinful way', then it would be my business, no one else's. Not a friend, not a total stranger, certainly not a sanctioned Christian organization like the Catholic Church. Especially since the philosophy of Christ, as I am taught, is that I am forgiven for all of my sins, and will go to Heaven if only I accept THIS.

Question: If someone says something you consider religiously offensive, how exactly is it affecting you?
My Answer: It's really not.

As a Christian, I choose to worship Jesus, and I do so without stuffing my beliefs about Him down everyone Else's throats, nor do I publicly cast any judgments on the 'sinful ways' of others. I live in California and I voted against Prop 8, but I still think homosexuality is a sin. It doesn't hurt me or my belief system one little bit that there are gay people in the world, and I wish them happiness while here on earth.

If only all Christians throughout history had only embraced that concept, then there would not be the hundreds of millions dead souls that have been falsely and brutally massacred in His name. And there wouldn't be any public statements about other people's public statements, which from my perspective, didn't contain any venom in it and certainly wasn't meant to offend and cause this kind of ruckus.

Bottom line, this issue is only an issue because that ridiculous organization called the Catholic Church made it an issue 40 years ago, and hasn’t learned a darned thing about the teachings of my Lord Jesus. Condemnation and/or Forgiveness come from Him...not the Catholic Church. Mr. Lennon's remark was, in hindsight, unremarkable.

A

[rug]

78. I still haven't forgiven Chad and Jeremy for recording A Summer Song.

[truthisfreedom]

82. Ridiculous. Still imposing their interpretation of his comments...

Disgusting.

Hey Vatican! Remember these lyrics?

Imagine by John Lennon

Imagine there's no Heaven
It's easy if you try
No hell below us
Above us only sky
Imagine all the people
Living for today

Imagine there's no countries
It isn't hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion too
Imagine all the people
Living life in peace

You may say that I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will be as one

Imagine no possessions
I wonder if you can
No need for greed or hunger
A brotherhood of man
Imagine all the people
Sharing all the world

You may say that I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will live as one

[RCinBrooklyn]

84. My history is foggy. They burnt all recordings by Jesus, yes? That's okay by me.

[BattyDem]

92. Why does a person have to be forgiven for making a truthful statement?

He didn't say "The Beatles are better than Jesus" ... he said they were more popular. At the time, that was true. It's too f*cking bad if the Vatican was pissed off by it!

Isn't it a bit arrogant for the Vatican to forgive an "offense" against Jesus? Since when does the Vatican speak for Jesus? Other Christian churches may have something to say about that. Besides, wouldn't it have been far more "Christ-like" to forgive him 40 years ago? :shrug: :eyes:

[anonymous171]

96. The Church is always slow to change.

[tomg]

97. Breaking News: Vatican Declares

Rocket 88 will replace Genesis as the first book of the Bible. In related news, Joey Dee and the Starliters declared heretics for 'Peppermint Twist.'

[Spectral Music]

99. Well, it took them 500 years to forgive Galileo, so John should feel honored.

LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:rofl: :rofl: