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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-30-08 06:09 AM
Original message
Cuba expects new US president to lift embargo
Source: Miami Herald

Posted on Thursday, 10.30.08
Cuba expects new US president to lift embargo

By EDITH M. LEDERER
Associated Press Writer

UNITED NATIONS -- Cuba's foreign minister says his government expects the next U.S. president to respond to overwhelming international demand and lift the 47-year-old U.S. trade embargo against Cuba.

After the U.N. General Assembly supported repeal of the economic and commercial embargo by its highest margin ever - 185 to 3 with 2 abstentions - on Wednesday, Felipe Perez Roque said in an interview that the winner of the Nov. 4 election should heed the message.

~snip~
"Seven out of every 10 Cubans have spent their entire lives under this irrational and useless policy which attempts, with no success, to bring our people to their knees," Perez Roque said.

The new president "should decide whether he will admit that the blockade is a failed policy that ... causes greater isolation and discrediting of his country" or whether the United States will continue "to try to defeat the Cuban people through hunger and disease," he said.




Read more: http://www.miamiherald.com/news/world/AP/story/747848.html



The Herald shows a photo of Raul Castro, and Alicia Alonso, Cuba's greatest dancer.



Alonso, in early days.


Alonso's National Ballet of Cuba Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ballet_Nacional_de_Cuba

Website, Ballet Nacional de Cuba:
http://www.balletcuba.cult.cu/Biografias/galeria.htm
http://www.balletcuba.cult.cu/Biografias/biografiaballet.htm
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DainBramaged Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-30-08 06:18 AM
Response to Original message
1. I agree, how do you re-inject Democracy and Capitalism into an otherwise pure society
than build casinos, ship in 'products', and drain the country of resources? We only want her oil before China gets to it.
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Barack4Ever Donating Member (13 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-31-08 09:49 PM
Response to Reply #1
31. nope
cant do it. we have to make sure that those who get ripped off by the man get compensated, i have more than others, so i dont mind contributing
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dipsydoodle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-30-08 06:46 AM
Response to Original message
2. Who were the other two ?
Guam and the Marshall Islands ?
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-30-08 06:51 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. Close! Palau, Marshall Islands, and Micronesia!
If they only had more people, or their own wealth, they could have told Bush to go stuff himself when he had his people twist their arms to vote against condemning the embargo.



~~~~~~~~~


In the meantime, something interesting I just saw may provide an interesting change in Cuba's agricultural production:

Tue, 28 Oct 2008 21:30:01 GMT
Brazil's Petrobras to help Cuban firm on oil, soy

BRASILIA, Brazil (AP) Brazil officials say the nation's state-run oil company will partner with its Cuban counterpart to produce oil in the Caribbean country.

The agreement between Petrobras and Cuba Petroleo will be finalized during the Brazilian president's trip to Cuba this week. No details on the oil agreement have been made public.

Brazilian officials also say their agriculture experts will help Cuba begin large-scale soy farming operations on former sugar lands.

A Brazilian association of small farmers will send the experts. They say the aim is to eventually have 40,500 hectares (100,075 acres) of soy planted in Cuba.

The Brazilians say they'll first test various types of soy seeds to determine which will work best in Cuba.

http://cbs4denver.com/businesswire/22.0.html?type=national&serviceLevel=f&category=f&filename=APFN-LT--Brazil-Cuba.xml
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dipsydoodle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-30-08 07:02 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. It's good that the soy will planted
on former sugar plantations assuming it has ceased to be ecomomic for Cuba to produce sugar. It's not as if they'd export either - more likely home consumption for the present anyway.

Brazil has issues because they allow soy to be planted on former rain forest - hence the issue of EU imports of soy in the form of chicken feedstock etc from Brazil.
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bluebutterfly Donating Member (10 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-30-08 09:41 AM
Response to Reply #3
11. UN vote
Voted No: US..Israel..Palau

Abstained: Micronesia..Marshall Islands
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nichomachus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-31-08 05:33 AM
Response to Reply #11
24. So, Israel says the Cuban state has no right to exist. What irony!
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Wabbajack_ Donating Member (669 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-30-08 11:40 AM
Response to Reply #2
14. No
NO- US, Israel, Palau

"Present" Mircroniesa, Marshall Islands (who last time voted no)
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cboy4 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-30-08 06:52 AM
Response to Original message
4. Cuba can not expect the U.S. to lift the embargo using
aggressive language like that. :eyes:
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-30-08 07:14 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. If you're referring to his audacity in bringing up hunger and disease, you should realize
the U.S. has been trying to crush Cuba since at least 1897, the year John C. Breckenridge wrote his Breckenridge Memorandum on Christmas Eve, and addressed his hope for a devastating blockade against Cubans:

We must impose a harsh blockade so that hunger and its constant companion, disease, undermine the peaceful population and decimate the Cuban army.


His entire memorandum:
http://www.historyofcuba.com/history/bmemo.htm

Add 46 years of continuous acts of terrorism both against people on the island, and Cubans in other countries, and you've got Cubans with every reason in the world to be wildly angry.

It's time to stop bullying them, and butt the hell out. How can that concept elude you?

The aggressor here is the United States. Do some research, studying and thinking when you get a chance.
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cboy4 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-30-08 07:47 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. Judi, I don't agree with the blockade per se. But the
facts remain, no Democratic president has even lifted the embargo.

And I don't believe Barack Obama has indicated he's inclined to do so.

Therefore, if Cuba wishes for the embargo to be lifted, I'm only saying it's in its best interest to maybe metaphorically put some of that sugarcane it grows in its language.

You know, ask nicely.

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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-30-08 08:09 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. Here are some photos of signs in Cuba which may help:
Edited on Thu Oct-30-08 08:10 AM by Judi Lynn



B L O Q U E O
Looking at the U.S. Embargo Against Cuba

Looking to really find out how the blockade affects Cuba? Sick of the media spin? Want something more substantive on the Cuba debate?

“Bloqueo: Looking at the U.S. Embargo Against Cuba” is a newly-released documentary by two young filmmakers that offers some answers.

Featuring voices from the streets of Havana and the Cuban countryside, Bloqueo (or blockade) lets Cubans speak for themselves about how they have been affected by the blockade, and what it means to live in Cuba today. The 45-minute documentary also features analysis from activists traveling with the Pastors for Peace Caravan—an annual journey calling attention to this controversial policy.
Bloqueo looks at the successes that have made Cuba a model in healthcare, environmental stewardship, and other arenas that forge an alternative, and ultimately more sustainable, system.

“Bloqueo raises important questions about the legitimacy and efficacy of the more than four-decade-old US embargo against Cuba, using testimonies from ordinary citizens to show how the embargo has brought hardship to Cubans and Americans alike. The film also highlights some of the impressive advances that Cuba has made in medicine, agriculture, and energy, despite the embargo. Folks might disagree over Castro's leadership, but one thing is clear--the embargo helps no one, and drives an unnecessary wedge between our two countries. I applaud this film for bringing our attention to this outdated and hurtful policy.”

– Congressman José E. Serrano

http://www.toddpnyc.com/bloqueo/main.html
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ronnie624 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-30-08 11:47 AM
Response to Reply #8
15. That isn't "asking nicely".
Don't you realize Cubans belong on their knees, begging for scraps from the masters of the world? It is our god given right to force our will on "third world" countries. Lol.

It is simply a fact of life for most Americans that the United States has an inalienable right to dominate other peoples in the world. Even for many liberals and progressives, it seems that certain popular prepossessions are simply impossible to get around.
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Divernan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-30-08 08:24 AM
Response to Reply #7
10. I have high hopes that I'll be able to finally visit Cuba.
Edited on Thu Oct-30-08 08:29 AM by Divernan
The Cuban address to the U.N. included the following, which I think adequately balances the realistic criticism detailing the harsh realities of the U.S.'s embargo/travel restrictions.

He said Cuban President Raul Castro has said on several occasions "that we are ready to begin conversation between both parties, of course based on respect, sovereignty and the right of each country to follow its own way."

As to how the two presidential candidates would treat Cuba, gambling addict & lifelong party boy McCain would be mightily tempted to try to restore Havana to the wide open city of gambling, casinos, and prostitution. Although McCain has great trouble with delayed gratification, he'd probably wait for Fidel's death before staging a military invasion. I think Obama would very quickly open diplomatic relations with Cuba and demonstrate the U.S.'s newly found good faith by closing that abomination called Guantanamo.

And when the U.S. does close Guantanamo, I hope it has the good sense to destroy all evidence of the detention/torture facilities there, so the US can be spared the international humiliation of having Guantanamo turned into an internationally visited site like the historically restored concentration camps in Germany, Austria, Poland. I visited Sachsenhausen Concentration Camp, about 40 miles north of Berlin, earlier this month. It was an emotionally devastating experience. The camp was testimony to the depths of depraved cruelty possible under political extremism. As I visited there, I was thinking that future generations will visit Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo and feel the same horror and repulsion toward the Bush administration as I felt toward Hitler.

On a brighter note, I am really looking forward to visiting Cuba as soon as I can legally do so.

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roody Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-31-08 08:54 PM
Response to Reply #10
28. No need to wait. It is very easy to go to Cuba.
The Cubans are happy to have you visit.
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Billy Burnett Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-30-08 06:56 PM
Response to Reply #7
17. Can you give an example of what Cuba has to do to or say to "ask nicely"?
The US is committing the criminal act upon Cuba.

Virtually EVERY nation on this planet has asked the US "nicely", again this year.

Just why should Cuba submit to the bully nation that is attempting to squash them?

The US embargo on Cuba is one example among many of the rogue nature of the US government.

The whole world should stop asking nicely, imo. The US has near zero leverage now, thanks to the Bushco crime empire.

Rogue actions like this endanger us all.


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cboy4 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-31-08 01:51 AM
Response to Reply #17
22. I'm not justifying Cuba needing to ask nicely. I'm saying
it's my belief that aggressive language on their part in regard to this issue will not move them toward the resolution they seek.

But some might argue the benefits of a lifted embargo is worth perhaps swallowing their pride and trying a different tact.
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ngant17 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-30-08 07:18 PM
Response to Reply #7
18. technically Pres. Carter broke the ice
when he lifted the ban on travel to Cuba in 1977. The Carter Administration relaxed laws to allow U.S. residents to send money to relatives in Cuba the following year.

Obama's policy to Cuba is echoing the official DNC party line. Don't think he would go any further than Carter did.

It probably doesn't matter to Cuba so much, now that substantial undersea oil fields are believed to exist in their territory of the Gulf of Mexico. They will have a lot of help from Venezuela and Brazil and maybe even China to bring this to the world market.
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Billy Burnett Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-30-08 09:10 PM
Response to Reply #18
20. He can't go as far as Carter could. There has been a myriad of new laws/sanctions created since then
The Helms-Burton Act for one.


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cboy4 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-31-08 01:52 AM
Response to Reply #18
23. Yes, I agree with you.
Especially with their relationship with Venezuela.
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Occulus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-08 12:35 AM
Response to Reply #23
33. One would think that a good reason to be on friendly terms.
If nothing else.

Pity Cuba has so little to offer us otherwise :sarcasm:
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cboy4 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-08 04:21 AM
Response to Reply #33
36. Yea, Cuba has the United States on its knees.
:eyes:
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bluebutterfly Donating Member (10 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-30-08 09:51 AM
Response to Reply #6
12. US hypocrisy re: Cuba
The US says that Cuba must release its political prisoners and
protect human rights more.
And where is Guantanamo located? In Cuba!
Cuba does not cash the $4,085 monthly rent checks from the US.
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Occulus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-08 12:31 AM
Response to Reply #4
32. .
:rofl:

Can't.... stop..... giggling....

Aggressive language?

BWAAAAAAAAHAHAHahahaha
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cboy4 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-08 04:19 AM
Response to Reply #32
35. Well it's at the very least passive aggressive.
You may thing it's hilarious, but that kind of talk will get Cuba nowhere.

And that's with nowhere with a capital "N."

Watch.

You think the United States is going to come out and admit the blockade has been a failed policy?!11!

:rofl:

BWAHAHAHAHAhahahhaha

Yea, that'll happen.

please.
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Blue_Tires Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-30-08 08:13 AM
Response to Original message
9. normal trade relations can only help us at this point
given the state of our economy
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FVZA_Colonel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-08 12:37 AM
Response to Reply #9
34. They're also the best possible means of actually affecting "change" inside Cuba.
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roody Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-08 02:55 PM
Response to Reply #34
42. One change the US would seek is to take away
Cubans' rights to food, medical care, education, and a home. Why should they have it when we do not?
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-08 03:12 PM
Response to Reply #42
44. Highest literacy rates in Latin America, lowest infant mortality, yet Bush and the right-wing
have already planned to privatize EVERYTHING in Cuba once they get their filthy claws into the government, after, apparently a bloody revolution to restore power to the same criminals Cubans threw out in the first place.

I've heard it explained they are NOT likely to let this happen.
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Billy Burnett Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-02-08 10:47 PM
Response to Reply #44
56. Classic Shock Doctrine. The US's "Cuba Transition Plan" is waiting on the shelf for the "right time"
U.S. Authorizes a “Transition Plan” for Cuba

The demand for respect for Cuba’s sovereignty was prompted by Washington’s immediate response to the news of Fidel’s illness—to call for a transition to “free-market democracy” in Cuba.

-

Of course, the U.S. government officials (who are essentially mouthpieces for the big corporations and banks, the military-industrial complex, and the capitalist family fortunes that own them) in their crocodilian way shed tears that the Cuban people don’t have what these mouthpieces call “democracy.” They weep that the Cuban people are “suffering” under the alleged “dictatorship” of Fidel Castro.
 
To show their concern for the Cuban people, these crocodiles have published a “transition plan” for Cuba (400-plus pages of it), which details, among other things, how every bit of real estate and other economically valuable categories would be cared for by the monopoly-dominated “free market” if it ever got its hooks back on the Cuban property it used to own before the Fidelista revolutionists nationalized them “down to the nails in their shoes” in 1960.

-

Dr, Ricardo Alarcón, president of Cuba’s National Assembly, described the U.S. “transition plan” in an Oct. 12, 2004, talk that he gave at Cienfuegos University in Matanzas, Cuba (see www.walterlippman.com/alarcon001.html for the full text).
 
Quoting from the U.S. document, Alarcón said that it “announces that its aim is ‘to bring the Cuban regime to a swift end’ and specifies that ‘the cornerstone of our policy to hasten an end to the Castro regime is to strengthen policies of proactive support to the groups we back inside Cuba,’ and that—for that purpose—the current budget of $7 million will be raised to $59 million.”
 
“With those measures,” Alarcón continued, “and the intensification of the economic blockade and their aggressive actions, they're confident that they will defeat the Revolution and install here what they call a transition government that would be directed by a U.S. functionary who would begin to work starting now, and whose job description is Transition Coordinator.
 
“The nature of that transition and its content are described in minute detail in the plan. The first step, which must be concluded in less than one year, will be the return of properties—homes, land, etc.—to their former owners, which they describe as ‘the Gordian knot’ of the transition....
 
“The nation's economy, all its branches and all social services—among them public health and education—will be privatized. That enormous task also will be handled by Washington. The plan describes it thus: ‘The government of the United States will establish a Standing Committee of the United States for Economic Reconstruction.’”



Cubans have had a blood soaked taste of US/corporate hegemony, and with "free market capitalism" being even more rapacious than then, Cubans want little to do with it.


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Javaman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-30-08 10:02 AM
Response to Original message
13. We trade with china and viet nam, send food aid to n.korea, have normalized
relations with libya, yet YET, we still won't open diplomacy with Cuba.

one fucked up policy.
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-30-08 05:07 PM
Response to Original message
16. Big news: Comcast is lowering the cost of calling Cuba!
Posted on Wednesday, 10.29.08
Comcast lowers price to call Cuba

Comcast lowered the price to call Cuba. Comcast Digital Voice customers can make calls that terminate to land-line phones in Cuba for 79 cents per minute, decreased from 91 cents a minute.

AT&T's land-line calling rates to Cuba start at 92 cents a minute with its Worldwide Value calling plan.

http://www.miamiherald.com/news/americas/story/745542.html
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w4rma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-30-08 07:24 PM
Response to Original message
19. Good. (nt)
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flamingdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-30-08 10:44 PM
Response to Original message
21. I think Obama will negotiate the rules back to the Clinton days
once he deals with much more pressing domestic issues and international issues.

That means we'll be able to visit on people to people exchange programs, schools
will be able to send students without restrictions and relatives of Cubans will
be able to travel yearly or more and send more money.

I expect that would happen within his first year and deeper changes would flow
from that.

At this point Cuba doesn't have the infrastructure for millions of American
visitors descending anyway...
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eomer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-31-08 05:53 AM
Response to Original message
25. Repressive regimes on the left and on the right need each other.
The Castro regime has needed an enemy all these decades just like our rightwing does. The sparring between each other (over the embargo, etc) is for public consumption, just propaganda.

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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-31-08 09:39 PM
Response to Reply #25
29. Cubans need for the right-wing loons in the United States to stay out of their business, to stop
the 46 year old economic warfare against them, for violent Cuban reactionaries in Miami to stop terrorizing their country, and for the Cuban American politicians to stop taking massive funding from the U.S. taxpayers, and twisting arms in the Czech Republic, and various right-wing outposts in Europe to use those people as weapons against Cuba in their deviant schemes and plots to inflict further damage.

Within years this is ALL going to be over, and those U.S. right-wingers, and assorted half-baked, vicious Cuban "exiles" and their progeny in Florida are due to be publicly undressed when the entire country sees just how wildly, crudely wrong all the propaganda yarns have been which have been shoved down everyone's throats here concerning Cuba.

You can say anything you want to say about a country and its people when you are relatively certain your own country will be able to keep your fellow citizens from ever going there to see if what you've said about it is true or not.

Many of us are finding out that Cuban-Americans have been coming and going there for ages, including some of the "exiles" who have howled the loudest about how horrible things are back there. We are learning some of them have shown up there on vacation and go nightclubbing, fishing, etc., etc., etc., just like Elián Gonzalez' drunken old nasty great-uncle, Lázaro Gonzalez, who, as magazine reporters and newspaper reporters found out, upon checking IN PERSON, used his nephew's (Juan Miguel Gonzalez) house to flop in while he slept all day and toured the bars all night, leaving Juan Miguel to get his own sleeping done in his car, in order to offer his own bedroom to the old Miami "exile."

They NEEDED an enemy? Jezus Christ. They have HAD an enemy since the 1800's. Some of us have done our homework.
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eomer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-08 05:48 AM
Response to Reply #29
38. Cubans need the U.S. rightwing to get out of their business, agreed.
I believe that the U.S. deep government (CIA and friends) has worked all these decades to keep Castro in power, not to try to overthrow him; that they orchestrated the failure of the Bay of Pigs invasion and have used many covert operations that are geared toward creating and maintaining an enemy, not eliminating one. Rightwing Cuban exiles are duped into supporting rightwing politicians because they believe the propaganda they are told; they believe they are working on overthrowing Castro when in fact they are supporting people whose real aim is to keep him in power. So, yes, I agree that the Cuban people need the rightwing to get out of their business. They have been mere pawns who matter not at all to the rightwing, which does what it does for its own greedy interests and doesn't care what misery results.

You say many of you are finding out that Cuban Americans have been coming and going there for ages; I've known that for ages. I have members of my extended family, quite a few of them, who have been doing that and we've all known about it. The ones I'm aware of were doing it primarily as a business, although I wouldn't be surprised to hear they enjoyed the travel like a vacation as well. The travel restrictions implemented by Bush have stopped this travel, at least for my family members.

I also have family members who have lived in Cuba until relatively recently and have spent quite a bit of time hearing them tell how it was there.

One point in particular I need to clear up. You misquoted me as saying the Cuban people need an enemy. That's not what I said. I said that the Castro regime needs an enemy. What the Cuban people need is to be rid of their rightwing enemy and also rid of their repressive government. They need to stop being used as pawns between two powers that both benefit from the appearance of a struggle between them, a struggle that is all for show.

Cuban exiles actually need the same thing, they just don't know it. They have been fooled into voting against their own self interests, just like people in the U.S. have been fooled into doing by the rightwing.

What I want for the Cuban people is for them to be able to take control of their own system, to be able to have real elections, to have a free public discourse so they can inform themselves, and to then elect leaders who they think will work on their behalf and to only reelect those leaders if they believe they have worked on their behalf. I want the fruit of their labors to be used to create a good life for all of them, including education for all, health care for all, freedom to travel for all. In other words, I want for Cubans the same thing that I want for everyone, everywhere.

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Billy Burnett Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-08 02:26 PM
Response to Reply #38
40. If Cubans don't have the discourse you lament them not having then ...
Edited on Sat Nov-01-08 02:29 PM by Billy Burnett
If Cubans don't have the discourse you lament them not having then how the hell is it that Cubans have the social infrastructure they want, while in the US Americans don't have the social infrastructure they want?

Surely you don't think that Cubans have world class health care and education systems (that are globally recognized and awarded many times) because it is forced on them from the top down, do you?

Cubans have acted upon their discourse and created effective results for everyone, starting from the ground up.

I've been to Cuba many times, and I have to say that I've rarely run across such an activist populace that operates by starting on the local community level and on up. This is the way the revolution has continued to operate, survive, and thrive. This is how their parliamentary system operates also.

I want Americans to have the same things that Cubans have. A sovereign nation (not a part subsidiary of meganational corporations), world class universal health care, world class universal education, all occupations with union representation, housing as a human right, and enough national dignity to share sacrifices for the betterment of mankind wherever and however they are able.

Cubans have taken control of their own system. The proof is in the pudding.



Wow. Paper ballots.



Revolution is the profound conviction that there
is no force in the world capable of destroying
the force of truth and ideas.



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eomer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-02-08 07:04 AM
Response to Reply #40
51. My family members who lived there tell a different story.
The basics needed for survival were not reliably available to them. Obtaining adequate food and clothing for their children was a daily struggle and uncertainty. Medicines could often only be had by asking relatives in Miami to send them. For a stay in the hospital you had to bring your own bedsheets and your own analgesics because none were available otherwise. The official government food markets had practically nothing on the shelves. When my wife visited, her cousins took her to see their local food market. They told her in advance, "there won't be any salt on the shelves, you'll see". And, sure enough, there wasn't any and there were many other staples that were just not available.

There are obviously many Cubans who disagree with your rosy assessment. They are not allowed to say so, in Cuba, and they are not allowed to vote in anything other than a sham election. The proof of democracy pudding is in real institutions of public discourse, real elections, and real human rights.

There are other countries that have universal healthcare, universal education, and the other benefits that we're discussing, but without the repressive political system, aren't there? We agree on the benefits that a government should provide. I disagree that the Cuban government actually provides them, most of them. But if I stipulate for a moment that they do, for the sake of argument, why must the cost of having them in Cuba be the loss of basic political freedoms? Why not try for something better than that, why not try for all those benefits together with a free and open society and real democracy?

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Billy Burnett Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-02-08 09:25 AM
Response to Reply #51
53. The scenarios you describe were during the "special period" - post collapse of the USSR.
Edited on Sun Nov-02-08 09:27 AM by Billy Burnett
The special period was a harsh time for Cubans. Cuba's #1 trade partner and benefactor went kaput, and Cuba plunged into a serious depression made far worse by the US trade sanctions.

To decry the Cuban government for is misplaced, imo.

The US's extra territorial sanctions are designed exactly to make life hard on Cubans, so that they will denounce their own government as responsible.

Problem is, Cubans didn't do that. Instead, they forged ahead and expanded the much needed social infrastructures, and that included a massive expansion of their own pharmaceutical industries.

Yes, there were shortages for a moderate duration because they were cut off at the knees. I hate to think of the shortages that might exist in the USA if our major trade partners (and creditors) cut off the USA. There are serious health care shortages right now in the US - god forbid that such a thing happens here.

All things considered, Cuba did pretty well. They survived, and, obviously, over 10 million Cubans in Cuba disagree with your assessment.


As far as your 'political repression' rhetoric, maybe you should take a little time to do some genuine study (not to dis your relatives or anything) of your own - with an open mind.

A good place to start is here...

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0968508405/qid=1053879619/sr=1-2/ref=sr_1_2/102-8821757-1670550?v=glance&s=books


A first-hand account of Cuba's experience with democracy.

Democracy has been briefly defined as the "rule of the people". This book offers you a profound historical view followed by a thorough inside look at how this "rule of the people" is now working in Cuba. The examination of two weather vane constituencies - one in Havana and another in the countryside of Cienfuegos Province - helps the author to present a detailed description of the nomination of candidates and the elections at all levels, as well as accountability of the elected to the citizens.

The author, Arnold August, is the first non-Cuban who has directly attended virtually all the steps of the contemporary Cuban electoral process in order to write a book on the subject. He has based the content of this volume on many months of painstaking research, personal observation and interviews in Cuba.

Several academics have mentioned that this book contributes to the analysis of Cuba's history with regards to its striving for democracy, as well as synthesizes for the first time so minutely the entire electoral process.

The 416 page book contains 135 photographs, the majority taken by the author during the course of the 1997-98 elections.



BTW, I've actually been to Cuba while an election was taking place.



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yy4me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-31-08 05:56 AM
Response to Original message
26. The end of this embargo is long overdue. The people of Cuba
should not suffer because of Castro's bluster in the 1950's and 1960's. Time has come for us to recognize that we do not own the world. I am hoping that Obama will lift the embargo so the people of Cuba have access to what the US has to offer and we can hopefully make it a 2 way street. Fifty years of bluster is enough.

We might even learn something from their very successful health care programs.
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populistdriven Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-31-08 07:28 AM
Response to Original message
27. it would help the economy of south florida tremendously nt
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Billy Burnett Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-03-08 10:49 AM
Response to Reply #27
57. S Florida economy be damned, say Ileana Ros and the Lincoln Diaz brothers.
Edited on Mon Nov-03-08 10:50 AM by Billy Burnett
They have their own ambitions in a "free" Cuba. That comes first and foremost. Until then they run against Castro in every election.


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Barack4Ever Donating Member (13 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-31-08 09:48 PM
Response to Original message
30. wow
love that headdress its divine!
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fla nocount Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-08 04:50 AM
Response to Original message
37. Someday, maybe 2012, we'll elect someone progressive...
and this silly shit will end. Imagine the surprise of the Miami Baptistas when they realize they have no claims and Cuba is open, that and Big Sugar are the real reasons for the embargo.
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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-08 06:55 AM
Response to Original message
39. Mojitos all around!
Edited on Sat Nov-01-08 06:56 AM by lonestarnot
3 fresh mint sprigs
2 tsp sugar
3 tbsp fresh lime juice
1 1/2 oz light rum
club soda



In a tall thin glass, crush part of the mint with a fork to coat the inside. Add the sugar and lime juice and stir thoroughly. Top with ice. Add rum and mix. Top off with *chilled* club soda (or seltzer). Add a lime slice and the remaining mint, and serve.

mmmmm mmmm mmm :toast:
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Billy Burnett Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-08 02:41 PM
Response to Reply #39
41. Whatever you do, DO NOT USE BARCARDI RUM for those Mojitos!
A real Mojito is made with Cuban Rum.

Americans don't have the freedom to purchase real Cuban Rum.

Instead, use some other fine Caribbean made rums, not that bastardized bacardi swill.


Click picture to find out more


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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-08 03:10 PM
Response to Reply #41
43. Thanks for the pointer to links, like this one from the top of the list:
~snip~
In advertising its lead brand white rum, Bacardi plays on its Cuban roots, misleading drinkers into believing that Bacardi still has some links with the island. In fact the Bacardi empire is based in the Bahamas and the Bacardi company broke all ties with Cuba after the Revolution of 1959, when its cronies in the hated Batista dictatorship were overthrown by a popular guerrilla movement led by Fidel Castro and Ernesto ‘Che’ Guevara.

Since then the Bacardi company has backed illegal and violent attempts to undermine the Cuban Revolution, including funding the Cuban-American National Foundation (CANF), a virulently anti-Castro right-wing exile organisation based in Miami, which has been responsible for systematic acts of terrorism against Cuba. Bacardi’s lawyers also helped draft the US Helms-Burton Act, which extends the United States’ blockade of Cuba to third countries, in breach of international trade law. So central was the role of Bacardi’s lawyer, Ignacio E Sanchez (a CANF member) in establishing Helms-Burton that US Senator William Dengue said the law should be renamed the Helms-Bacardi Protection Act.

The Helms-Burton Act was designed to tighten still further the United States blockade of Cuba. The blockade prevents the sale of food, medicines and other essential supplies to Cuba and threatens other countries (including Britain) if they trade with Cuba. It has been estimated that the blockade has cost Cuba over $40 billion in lost production and trade. Every year the US blockade is overwhelmingly condemned by the United Nations.

The blockade is responsible for severe shortages and suffering among the Cuban people. For instance, the prestigious American Association for World Health (AAWH) reported in 1997 that the US blockade is contributing to malnutrition and poor water quality in Cuba and that Cuba is being denied access to drugs and medical equipment which is causing patients, including children, to suffer unnecessary pain and to die needlessly. The AAWH gave examples of a heart attack patient who died because the US government refused a licence for an implantable defibrillator, of Cuban children with leukaemia denied access to new life-prolonging drugs and of children undergoing chemotherapy who, lacking supplies of a nausea-preventing drug, were vomiting on average 28 times a day.

The AAWH concluded that a humanitarian catastrophe had been averted only because the Cuban government has maintained a high priority for a system designed to deliver primary and preventive care to all its citizens. It is worth recording that, despite the effects of the blockade, Cuba last year received a World Health Organisation (WHO) award for meeting all the WHO targets for all countries by the year 2000 – the only country so far to have done so.

More:
http://www.rcgfrfi.easynet.co.uk/ratb/boycott/wysk.htm
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Freddie Stubbs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-08 07:25 PM
Response to Original message
45. Perhaps they are beting on a Cynthia McKinney win
The Democratic Party Platform is very clear: Although we are willing to allow unlimited family visits to the island, we will not take steps toward normalization of relations unless the Cuban regime unconditionally releases all political prisoners and and takes significant steps toward democracy.

http://www.democrats.org/a/party/platform.html
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-08 08:00 PM
Response to Reply #45
46. There are even Republicans in Congress who would vote for removing instruments of the
economic war against Cuba, BESIDES the many, MANY Democrats. Your link doesn't seem to address the fact that THE AMERICAN PUBLIC wants this thing out of the road altogether, RIGHT NOW.

The Gallup Poll conducted February 21 through the 24th this year indicates 61% of their subjects approve diplomatic relations with Cuba, 29% did not, and 10% claimed to be unsure.

Congress has voted time and time again to remove the travel ban, aspects of the embargo, etc., only to have the filthy, ultra-creepy Lincoln Diaz-Balart destroy the amendments in committee, or one of the Cuban scum puppets they USED to have, back when Jesse Helms was their rabid, murderous, racist spokesman in the Senate, and Tom DeLay in the House.

You've probably been to busy to notice that for the first time your representatives in South Florida are possibly in for the flogging of their political lives, since until recently they've barely had anyone courageous enough to stand up to them and compete in any election: probably afraid of being bombed by the Cuban American National Foundation assasins, like Ileana Ros-Lehtinen's mentor, the one whose cause got her elected in the first place, bomber/mass murderer Luis Posada Carriles.

Your Lincoln Diaz-Balart went on a campaign to destroy Democratic Congressman David Skaggs when he pointed out and sought to remove the grotesque financial drag on the US economy which is tied up in supporting the Cuban-American-controlled, operated, programmed, and staffed (on the hard-earned tax dollars of U.S. taxpayers to the tune of at LEAST $30,000,000.00 per year) Radio and TV Marti to beam propaganda to Cuba, under the guise of sending vital information into a country which forbids news. David Skaggs pointed out that Cubans can GET tv stations from Miami with their own rabbit ears or antennnas to their own tvs, so THEY ALREADY ARE LISTENING TO AND WATCHING AMERICAN NEWS, PROGRAMS IN SPANISH FROM MIAMI.

Your Congressman destroyed Skaggs programs for his own state by political attacks, then took out articles in Colorado newspapers, financed by the Cuban American National Foundation, telling Colorado voters David Skaggs lost their important projects, and Skaggs was not elected. Your side won. Skaggs lost, Colorado lost an honorable man in the House of Representatives who was looking out for their interests. You should be proud.

I've seen the papers saying Mario Diaz-Balart is also in trouble in the very district he created for himself to represent as a national Congressman, when he was still in the Florida House of Representatives. He gerrymandered his own new district, ran for its Representative immediately, and now that district is turning against him BIG TIME. I've heard from a man who was unfortunate enough to live in that district, and he said they were FURIOUS over there in Ft. Myers that Mario Diaz-Balart was able to stretch that district alllllll the way over there, as they couldn't stand him.

One way or another, your henchmen from South Florida are going DOWN, and going to stay down, and gone, and they won't be able to hijack US legislation any longer.

Some Republicans want this crap changed, too, and have for years, even back when Clinton was the President.

It's not going to be long before that embargo is GONE, and everyone's going to know what a filthy trick has been played upon the gullible people of this country who have been played for fools by a radical bunch of right-wing scum.
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Freddie Stubbs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-08 08:08 PM
Response to Reply #46
47. The Democrats running against the Diaz-Balart brothers to not favor ending the embargo
They only want to end the travel restrictions on family members, just as the Democratic platform states.
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-08 08:32 PM
Response to Reply #47
48. They have survival interests at heart in the area the FBI designated "Terror Capital of the U.S."
during the time the Iran/Contra participants, leftover Watergate Burlar, Orlando Bosch/Luis Posada Carriles airliner bomber mass murderer, members of assassination teams working for Operation Condor killing leftists, Cuban "exile" murderers were slaughtering other Cubans who favored dialogue with Cuba, and the Cuban cocaine traffickers were bombing businesses, people all over Miami on a regular basis.

They aren't crazy. They don't want to try to drive off in a bombed car, like Cuban radio personality, Emilio Milián attempted after he tried to encourage these dregs of society, on his radio program, to step away from their fiendish violence against their fellow man. I guess they showed HIM.



Emilio Milián, after getting his
gift from the Cuban killers who
wanted HIS freedom of speech limited.


A partial list compiled in April, 2000 of the behavior samples from this gifted (literally, and by U.S. taxpayers who are expected to bankroll their exemption from ALL harrassment by U.S. immigration when they arrive in the U.S. under their own power, or by smuggler speedboats, through gifts of instant legal status, social security, food stamps, Section 8 housing, medical treatment, financial assistance for education, etc., etc., etc.) group's reactionaries:
~snip~
1968 From MacArthur Causeway, pediatrician OrlandoBosch fires bazooka at a Polish freighter. (City of Miami later declares "Orlando Bosch Day." Federal agents will jail him in 1988.)

1972 Julio Iglesias, performing at a local nightclub, says he wouldn't mind "singing in front of Cubans." Audience erupts in anger. Singer requires police escort. Most radio stations drop Iglesias from playlists. One that doesn't, Radio Alegre, receives bomb threats.

1974 Exile leader José Elias de la Torriente murdered in his Coral Gables home after failing to carry out a planned invasion of Cuba. 1974 Bomb blast guts the office of Spanish-language magazine Replica.

1974 Several small Cuban businesses, citing threats, stop selling Replica.

1974 Three bombs explode near a Spanish-language radio station. 1974 Hector Diaz Limonta and Arturo Rodriguez Vives murdered in internecine exile power struggles.

1975 Luciano Nieves murdered after advocating peaceful coexistence with Cuba. 1975 Another bomb damages Replica's office.

1976 Rolando Masferrer and Ramon Donestevez murdered in internecine exile power struggles.

1976 Car bomb blows off legs of WQBA-AM news director Emilio Milian after he publicly condemns exile violence.

1977 Juan José Peruyero murdered in internecine exile power struggles. 1979 Cuban film Memories of Underdevelopment interrupted by gunfire and physical violence instigated by two exile groups.

1979 Bomb discovered at Padron Cigars, whose owner helped negotiate release of 3600 Cuban political prisoners.

1979 Bomb explodes at Padron Cigars.

1980 Another bomb explodes at Padron Cigars.

1980 Powerful anti-personnel bomb discovered at American Airways Charter, which arranges flights to Cuba.

1981 Bomb explodes at Mexican Consulate on Brickell Avenue in protest of relations with Cuba.

1981 Replica's office again damaged by a bomb. 1982 Two outlets of Hispania Interamericana, which ships medicine to Cuba, attacked by gunfire.

1982 Bomb explodes at Venezuelan Consulate in downtown Miami in protest of relations with Cuba.

1982 Bomb discovered at Nicaraguan Consulate. 1982 Miami Mayor Maurice Ferre defends $10,000 grant to exile commando group Alpha 66 by noting that the organization "has never been accused of terrorist activities inside the United States."

1983 Another bomb discovered at Replica.

1983 Another bomb explodes at Padron Cigars.

1983 Bomb explodes at Paradise International, which arranges travel to Cuba. 1983 Bomb explodes at Little Havana office of Continental National Bank, one of whose executives, Bernardo Benes, helped negotiate release of 3600 Cuban political prisoners.

1983 Miami City Commissioner Demetrio Perez seeks to honor exile terrorist Juan Felipe de la Cruz, accidentallykilled while assembling a bomb. (Perez is now a member of the Miami-Dade County Public School Board and owner of the Lincoln-Martí private school where Elian Gonzalez is enrolled.)

1983 Gunfire shatters windows of three Little Havana businesses linked to Cuba.

1986 South Florida Peace Coalition members physically attacked in downtown Miami while demonstrating against Nicaraguan contra war. 1987 Bomb explodes at Cuba Envios, which ships packages to Cuba.

1987 Bomb explodes at Almacen El Español, which ships packages to Cuba.

1987 Bomb explodes at Cubanacan, which ships packages to Cuba.

1987 Car belonging to Bay of Pigs veteran is firebombed.

1987 Bomb explodes at Machi Viajes a Cuba, which arranges travel to Cuba.

1987 Bomb explodes outside Va Cuba, which ships packages to Cuba.

1988 Bomb explodes at Miami Cuba, which ships medical supplies to Cuba. 1988 Bomb threat against Iberia Airlines in protest of Spain's relations with Cuba.

1988 Bomb explodes outside Cuban Museum of Art and Culture after auction of paintings by Cuban artists.

1988 Bomb explodes outside home of Maria Cristina Herrera, organizer of a conference on U.S.-Cuba relations.

1988 Bomb threat against WQBA-AM after commentator denounces Herrera bombing.

1988 Bomb threat at local office of Immigration and Naturalization Service in protest of terrorist Orlando Bosch being jailed. 1988 Bomb explodes near home of Griselda Hidalgo,advocate of unrestricted travel to Cuba.

1988 Bomb damages Bele Cuba Express, which ships packages to Cuba. 1989 Another bomb discovered at Almacen El Español, which ships packages to Cuba.

1989 Two bombs explode at Marazul Charters, which arranges travel to Cuba. 1990 Another, more powerful, bomb explodes outside the Cuban Museum of Art and Culture.

1991 Using crowbars and hammers, exile crowd rips out and urinates on Calle Ocho "Walk of Fame" star of Mexican actress Veronica Castro, who had visited Cuba.

1992 Union Radio employee beaten and station vandalized by exiles looking for Francisco Aruca, who advocates an end to U.S. embargo.

1992 Cuban American National Foundation mounts campaign against the Miami Herald, whose executives then receive death threats and whose newsracks are defaced and smeared with feces.

1992 Americas Watch releases report stating that hard-line Miami exiles have created an environment in which "moderation can be a dangerous position."

1993 Inflamed by Radio Mambí commentator Armando Perez-Roura, Cuban exiles physically assault demonstrators lawfully protesting against U.S. embargo. Two police officers injured, sixteen arrests made. Miami City Commissioner Miriam Alonso then seeks to silence anti-embargo demonstrators: "We have to look at the legalities of whether the City of Miami can prevent them from expressing themselves."

1994 Human Rights Watch/Americas Group issues report stating that Miami exiles do not tolerate dissident opinions, that Spanish-language radio promotes aggression, and that local government leaders refuse to denounce acts of intimidation.

1994 Two firebombs explode at Replica magazine's office. 1994 Bomb threat to law office of Magda Montiel Davis following her videotaped exchange with Fidel Castro.

1996 Music promoter receives threatening calls, cancels local appearance of Cuba's La Orquesta Aragon.

1996 Patrons attending concert by Cuban jazz pianist Gonzalo Rubalcaba physically assaulted by 200 exile protesters. Transportation for exiles arranged by Dade County Commissioner Javier Souto.

1996 Firebomb explodes at Little Havana's Centro Vasco restaurant preceding concert by Cuban singer Rosita Fornes. 1996 Firebomb explodes at Marazul Charters, which arranges travel to Cuba.

1996 Arson committed at Tu Familia Shipping, which ships packages to Cuba.

1997 Bomb threats, death threats received by radio station WRTO-FM following its short-lived decision to include in its playlist songs by Cuban musicians.

1998 Bomb threat empties concert hall at MIDEM music conference during performance by 91-year-old Cuban musician Compay Segundo.

1998 Bomb threat received by Amnesia nightclub in Miami Beach preceding performance by Cuban musician Orlando "Maraca" Valle.

1998 Firebomb explodes at Amnesia nightclub preceding performance by Cuban singer Manolín.

1999 Violent protest at Miami Arena performance of Cuban band Los Van Van leaves one person injured, eleven arrested. 1999 Bomb threat received by Seville Hotel in Miami Beach preceding performance by Cuban singer Rosita Fornes. Hotel cancels concert.

January 26, 2000 Outside Miami Beach home of Sister Jeanne O'Laughlin, protester displays sign reading, "Stop the deaths at sea. Repeal the Cuban Adjustment Act," then is physically assaulted by nearby exile crowd before police come to rescue.

April 11, 2000 Outside home of Elian Gonzalez's Miami relatives, radio talk show host Scot Piasant of Portland, Oregon, displays T-shirt reading, "Send the boy home" and "A father's rights," then is physically assaulted by nearby exile crowd before police come to rescue.
http://64.233.169.104/search?q=cache:DIIFRg7X0GsJ:www.familiesforjustice.net/common/assets/docs/articles/ingles/mullin-the-burden-of-a-violent-history.pdf+Emilio+Milian+bombed+car&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=6&gl=us
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Freddie Stubbs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-08 10:23 PM
Response to Reply #48
49. How does that for an end of the embargo?
:shrug:
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-08 10:47 PM
Response to Reply #49
50. Responding to YOUR remark about the 2 Cubans and 1 Colombian running against the a-holes
in Miami.

If I'm not mistaken, I showed you the AMERICAN PEOPLE want a diplomatic relationship with Cuba, as illustrated by a Gallup poll taken this year.

Your reply was:
The Democrats running against the Diaz-Balart brothers to not favor ending the embargo
They only want to end the travel restrictions on family members, just as the Democratic platform states.
My response to your reply was that the Democrats running against these right-wing scummy idiots most likely take that position due to the fact they aspire to live out their lives without becoming the victims of violence by the Cuban "exile" radical reactionary right-wing criminal element which has been completely busy committing atrocities since they first started gracing this country with their presence back in the 1960's.

Then I gave you a good squint at the kind of crap your political wild beasts perpetrate against people with whom they differ politically. They aren't capable of adequate discussion, or thoughtful dialogue on the subject, and they are NOT willing to allow other beliefs to co-exist with theirs, SO THEY GET VIOLENT, and they even kill people because of their own inability to live as human beings.

I presume that's what you meant, although I'm not sure, by this question:"How does that for an end of the embargo?"
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Billy Burnett Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-02-08 10:35 AM
Response to Reply #50
55. I'm sure you've noticed that Debbie Wasserman Schultz won't campaign against IR-L nor the D-B bros
If one values their business, car, house, life and limbs, one takes GREAT risks defying the entrenched Miami-Dade exilio politics.


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MellowDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-02-08 07:54 AM
Response to Original message
52. Why does a communist country...
want so badly to engage in capitalism? ;-)

The embargo is idiotic and should have been lifted long ago. It has only remained in place because of the electoral influence of the Cuban-American vote in Miami. I think Obama will lift it.
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ohio2007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-02-08 09:36 AM
Response to Original message
54. miami herald ? lol. Doesn't "Cuba" know it will take an Act Of Congress to lift the embargo ?
If its not in the special interests of congressman, then the embargo will run its course and remain in place until Fidels state funeral.
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