Hermaphrodite child can choose gender - court

[AlphaCentauri]

Source: herald sun

COLOMBIA'S constitutional court says a five-year-old child born with both female and male sexual organs can choose its own gender or maintain both, overruling the parents who wantto make the child a boy.

"The child has reached an age beyond which gender identification is determined," the court said, stating that it was now up to the child to decide its reproductive future with support from specialists and the parents.

The child's choice would have precedence over the opinions of the experts and family, it said.

The father had petitioned the court for the right to organise surgery on the child to have an ovary removed and to close the vagina, so as to allow the normal development of the penis and testicles.



Read more: http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,24469160-5012753,00.html

[Happyhippychick]

1. That's great news. I hope it sets the precedent.

[Warpy]

2. Good for that court

Five year olds can't make too many reasonable decisions and it might be a little wiser to wait two years or so for actual surgery, but that kid knows whether s/he is male or female by now. Prudent physicians will ask that question several times and in before any surgery is done, though, just in case the kid has an overactive fantasy life or is being manipulated by the parents.

Putting the kid into a roomful of toys will give them the answer they need. Kids who are being pressured by parents to say one thing will choose the other when it comes to what they want to play with.

[Ms. Toad]

4. My guess is that the real impact of the case

will be to prevent the parents from altering the child's sex organs until the child is old enough to make a decision about whether to conform his/her outward appearance and inner organs to his/her gender identity.

As an aside - gender identity does not necessarily determine which toys a child will want to play with. When I had a daughter who liked to play with dolls and her female friend who like to play with cars I used to have major fights with McDonald's drive-through employees during the Barbie/Hot Wheel's promotions. Rather than ask if the meal should include a doll or a car, they insisted on asking whether the meal was for a boy or for a girl.

[sarcasmo]

13. Exactly, it sounds like the father wants hm to be a boy, imagine.

[NashVegas]

17. I Don't Think That's The Answer Either, Really

There's a very good reason a lot of women are accused of "penis envy." You raise a kid in a household where one gender is favored over the other, and it's not going to take very much for a 3-5 year old to figure out which gender that is.

Best just putting a decision off altogether.

[Warpy]

18. They can't put it off too long

because puberty will approach faster than they think it will and if they want the kid to develop normally, they'll have to do something soon.

The real news in this case is that the doctor and parents didn't make the decision when the kid was an infant. That is what has usually been done with disastrous consequences later in life.

[Ms. Toad]

21. "Normal" for this child,

is however the child develops without medical intervention.

Although it is not entirely analagous, quite a few transgender individuals choose never to have surgery to make their bodies conform to their gender identity - or only have surgery to conform visible parts of their bodies. It is a very personal decision, and there is no reason to force this child to decide before puberty.

[Warpy]

22. Would you like to endure a PE locker room like that?

Didn't think so.

[yardwork]

25. That's up to the individual to decide.

[Warpy]

28. And that's exactly what this case said

[yardwork]

30. Exactly. I applaud the court's decision.

[Ms. Toad]

33. No,

But I also would not like to grow up in a body that did not match my gender identity, with mannerisms that appear effeminate if male - or masculine if female, or any other differences that would make me a target for school bullies. There will always be school bullies, and molding oneself to their narrow ideal is generally not the best way of becoming a healthy adult - speaking as one who tried that route (although not with respect to gender identity) for several years before I got the courage to walk my own path.

The child may come to embrace a gender identity before puberty - it may happen later, or not at all. When it happens is the child is the time to make the decision about surgery, if it is necessary or wanted.

My response was to the asserted urgency about making the surgery decision based on the approach of puberty, rather than because the child has embraced a gender identity that is right for the child.

[yardwork]

24. I agree. It is a fundamental right of every person to decide for themselves

which gender they choose to express. Gender isn't determined by one's sex organs, clothes, toys, occupations, or facial features. Gender is determined within a person's brain. It is a fundamental choice that has been denied to too many people in the past.

It's nobody's business what gender that child decides to adopt - or whether or not the child ever chooses to adopt a gender.

[slackmaster]

3. I imagine it must be extraordinarily confusing for a five-year-old to have to make such a decision

The article does not say who advocated on behalf of the child. Was this a purely judicial initiative?

[unblock]

9. and potentially devastating psychologically.

imagine years later feeling like you made the wrong choice.

then again, imagine years later that someone else made the wrong choice for you.



wouldn't it be nice if society wasn't so black-and-white about gender?

[LeftHander]

12. They were seeking surgury....and the doctors probably were advocates....

And refused to operate...the parents sued, because "Waiting and Choice" is now the accepted treatment for intersexed children with ambiguous external genitalia and a functioning ovaries...


The child will choose their gender identity probably long before puberty.

[GinaMaria]

14. can't the decision be put off

until the child is older and can truly make an informed choice?

[hedgehog]

20. I suspect that this isn't a matter of "choice" so much as it's a matter

of recognition. At some point this child will realize whether he is a he, she is a she or this human is both.

[yardwork]

27. Exactly. And it should be entirely up to the child to make that decision.

[yardwork]

26. That's exactly what the court decided. The father was forcing surgery to make the child a boy.

The court's decision says that the child gets to wait to make his or her own decision.

[uppityperson]

5. Good. Nothing needs to be done immediately, good to give the kid a choice nt

[trthnd4jstc]

6. We have to keep fighting for freedom and justice. In this case the Court ruled Right!n/t

[bean fidhleir]

7. If the report is correct about the child's medical status, it's very unusual

and likely a case of an undeveloped twin.

[Xithras]

23. My guess is that the article is incorrect.

There are no documented cases of true human hermaphrodism from birth (i.e., a fully functional and complete set of both male and female "parts"). That actually can't occur in humans because those body parts develop from the same embryonic tissues. It's theoretically possible that a fetus could have two sets of these tissues that could develop into both sets of full genitalia, but that would be just as common as people being born with three arms. Mutations that severe usually kill the fetus before birth.

More commonly, the genitalia is simply in an "in-between" state that shows evidence of both sexes. The surgeries simply complete the job by making the child all-male, or all-female.

By the sounds of it, this particular kid has one ovary and one testicle. In cases like that, the testicle usually ends up being an ovotestes, and the person typically ends up identifying as female. An ovotestes cannot function as a testicle and doesn't provide the hormonal drive needed to complete male development in adolescence, so choosing "male" for the kid would have been a BAD call. The doctors would have been aware of that, and it's probably why this ended up in court in the first place.

[bean fidhleir]

31. That's basically my take on it too.

I'd disagree, though, with your "surgeries complete the job" if by "complete" you mean "make good".

[pleah]

8. Rec.#5! Glad the court ruled in favor of the child. n/t

[Alameda]

10. Why should the child have to choose?

Let it be. One does not have to be male or female to be a person, do they? What ever the choice, the child will always be what they are, but mutilated.

We will see many more of these cases as hormone disrupters and other things alter us.

It could be this child is a chimera.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chimera_(genetics)

http://www.five.tv/programmes/extraordinarypeople/twininside/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intersexual#Chimerism

[rocktivity]

11. He can choose not to choose

And that's the most important option of all, which is why I cheer this decision. The child has plenty of time to decide what he feels.

:headbang:
rocknation

[Alameda]

15. You have a point, but it's a very big decision and very

difficult for a child to understand the wide implications of. I just hope they are not pressured to make a decision of any type too soon.

I wish our world would be more accepting of the differences in the world and not be threatened by them.

[rocktivity]

19. I saw this amazing TVshow about chimeras

There was a child who was literally of two different colors on the right and left sides of his body. It also featured a woman who was accused of welfare fraud and nearly lost custody of her children because her DNA didn't match. Fortunately, the hospital where she gave birth came to her defense and determined she was a chimera.

:headbang:
rocknation

[yardwork]

29. The court's decision was to halt the forced surgery.

This allows the child to make the decision later in life, instead of having the surgery imposed at the age of five.

[marshall]

34. Unfortunately we are a black/white, male/female binary society

It even extends to our politics with two strong political parties and no effective middle groud.
Of course the ideal is to recognize the many colors of the rainbow--but we're a long way from that--both in Congress and in Main Street.

[Critters2]

16. Good. I have friends with an intersex child, This is what they're doing.

My friends adopted the child, after first fostering, because the birth parents didn't want this beautiful baby. They were advised to choose a gender neutral name, and let the child grow to the point of choosing a gender identity. It raises lots of issues, like what to do about school when the time comes (will teachers, children, parents be understanding, or should they home school just to be safe?, etc); but this seems the best way to go. It's challenging in every day ways--like they never use pronouns, but always use the child's first name--in time they'll just ask what the child would like to be called. This baby is extremely fortunate.

Too many others live in situations like that child in Colombia, with pressure to choose an identity before really feeling it. Or, worse yet, with the threat or reality of surgery done too early.

This court made a wise choice!

[GoddessOfGuinness]

32. I only hope this kid's parents don't make his/her life miserable...

if s/he chooses to be a girl or accept that s/he is both...

[Orsino]

37. The rest of humanity will be glad to take up the slack.

Unfortunately. x(

[KamaAina]

35. "its" own gender?!

a five-year-old child born with both female and male sexual organs can choose its own gender or maintain both

:wtf: I don't even like it when people use "it" to refer to a cat or a dog!

[timtom]

36. But, but I thought....

I thought hermaphrodism was a choice.

[eridani]

38. Maybe one day we will all wake up in a society where--

--the question "Is it a boy or a girl?" can be answered "We don't know yet. We'll have to wait until s/he gets old enough to talk so we can ask him/her," and that will be fine with everybody.