US plane 'forced to land in Iran'

[dipsydoodle]

Source: BBC News

Only just breaking from minutes ago - link to follow. Now added thanks to Maeve below. :hi: and thanks again.

Read more: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/7657066.stm

[Maeve]

1. From BBC online

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7657066.stm
A US warplane has been forced to land in Iran after violating Iranian territory, an Iranian news agency has reported.

More details to follow.

[Maeve]

6. More details from above link

The Falcon aircraft entered Iranian airspace from Turkey, flying at low altitude to avoid radar, Fars said.

The agency said it was detected by Iranian fighter jets, which forced it to land at an undisclosed airport.

Passengers included five senior American generals and three civilians, the report said.

The agency said the group was interrogated at the airport and then allowed to leave after it was realised they had entered unintentionally.

More details to follow.

[bdab1973]

10. That sounds really fishy...

The only "Falcon" that I know of that can carry passengers is the Dassault Falconjet line (made by France, but sold everywhere). And I am not aware of any Falconjet aircraft in service with the US military except the few used by the USCG (and unlikely they would be operating in Turkey).

Also, if it was carrying general officers and staff, it's unlikely they would be "flying at low altitude to avoid radar". Why? There's no tactical reason to do so if you're simply a DV transport. I flew DVs around in Learjets in the middle east 5 years ago and NEVER flew "at low altitude to avoid radar".

[Bosso 63]

15. F-16?

[bdab1973]

18. No, how would you explain 8 passengers

on an F-16?

[Bosso 63]

22. Sorry, just read the article and saw the plural passengers.

[MaineDem]

23. That was my first thought too

:)

I just asked my husband (he said a few generals flying on the wing would be cool) but he told me about the private jet.

[sarcasmo]

80. Guantanomo transport plan?

[bdab1973]

85. Wouldn't make sense

Why would you want to transport anyone (whether Gitmo detainees or not) through Iranian airspace?

[Lorentz]

50. The only "Falcon" I know about made the Kessel Run in less than 12 parsecs.

[SpiralHawk]

67. Five senior American Generals!

If that pans out to be true, we have Commander AWOL Bush and VP Dickie 'Five Military Deferments' Cheney to thank.

They are the republicon chickenhawk 'leaders' of our military.

[GodlessBiker]

2. Wow. Is violating Iranian air space a crime there?

[Lerkfish]

3. its a crime ANYWHERE.

[bdab1973]

7. It's not considered a "crime"

Airspace violations occur all the time, worldwide. It's supposed to be a civil matter referred to the ICAO governing body, and if it would include US pilots then referred to the FAA or military authority for administrative action. Actions are supposed to involve things such as revoking a pilot's certificate, suspension, etc. NOT jail time, etc.

However, due to the US-Iranian relations, this will likely blow up to be well beyond the normal airspace violation. I fly over here all the time and many of the airways take you within miles of Iran's airspace...it's not on purpose, it's just how the geography works. Anyone entering or exiting Iraq from the south has a narrow strip of airspace (which has two airways) between Kuwait and Iran. Chances are the "warplane" was likely a non-combat aircraft.

[hlthe2b]

12. So, you are saying it is common to fly below radar?????

I can understand the possible errant flyover Iranian terrirtory, but the low flyover is unlikely to be explained away as simple error, if true.

[bdab1973]

16. I've read the link and it sounds like BS to me...

There is no reason whatsoever to fly generals and other officials on a business jet "at low level" across Iran. Furthermore, the only Falcons the US military owns are operated by the Coast Guard.

[hlthe2b]

21. There is a more current BBC link on one of the zillion threads

that indicates this happened some time ago and is just now being reported and further that everyone has been released (presumedly to fly back to US-occupied territory).

[dipsydoodle]

57. Once the BBC has set up a link

they just update it and then earlier versions cease to be accessible. The news definately only broke at lunchtime
today British Summer Time - hour ahead of GMT.

[pattmarty]

42. Look, if you want to fly a plane over another country's..........

.....airspace (especially if it's an "unfriendly"), and expect to have it litigated somehow in a court, goodfuckingluck. NOW, you really, really know (contrary to what rubbish you stated) that it can be EXTREMELY DANGEROUS (Korean airliner over Russia?) to fly a plane into "foreign" airspace.

[daleo]

76. When you bomb and invade countries

They get touchy about airspace violations. People are funny that way.

[Bonhomme Richard]

4. Not good. n/t

[jimshoes]

5. Did John Mccain take to flying again?

Oooops.

[pattmarty]

43. He's lobbying for an "air surge", hoping it'll help his campaign.

AND, for all you smart asses out there, I am not talking about an older mans flatulence problems.

[spinbaby]

8. Five generals?

"Passengers included five senior American generals and three civilians, the report said."

We're flying groups of generals over Iran now?

[KeepItReal]

13. Why does this sound like a set up? Iran may not have taken the bait.

What if Iran had simply shot down the "intruding" plane without asking questions?

[bdab1973]

19. I think it would be difficult to explain

the loss of 5 general officers and whoever else was on the airplane. It's not like generals are nobodys.

[jhain]

9. Suuurprise, suuuuuuuurprise

NOT

[MaineDem]

11. Traveling between Iraq and Afghanistan perhaps?

Just a thought.

[bdab1973]

14. Not likely...

Each country is generally responsible for something called a FIR, or Flight Information Region. Within the FIR, they are responsible for air traffic control, but it doesn't necessarily mean it's sovereign airspace...I contacted Tehran control once on the way back from Afghanistan but were well outside their 12 mile territorial airspace.

Aside from FIRs are a country's sovereign airspace. To fly through that airspace requires Diplomatic clearance (Dip clearances as we call them). It's highly unlikely that Iran would issue a US aircraft dips to fly through its airspace. Furthermore, there is no way anyone would attempt to purposefully fly a passenger aircraft "at low level" through Iranian airspace. One, there's no good reason to do so. Two, they will see you...without going into detail, Iran has the capability to see pretty well via radar coverage. Three, any reason you could possibly think of to fly "generals" across Iran in a business jet (assuming it's one since it said it was a Falcon) could be easily done by a number of other specialized airframes outside (or well over) Iranian airspace.

[MaineDem]

20. Thanks for that response

Great answer. I appreciate the detail.

[Wednesdays]

17. Well, here we go...the October Surprise begins

:nuke:

[Bosso 63]

25. Thats one way to change the subject off the economy.

You would have to be pretty crazy and desperate to do something like this intentionally. . . oh shit.

[Algorem]

24. Cheney thought they'd keep them.

[Satyagrahi]

26. Iranian Al-Alam television: Plane belonged to a European aid agency

Iran forces Western aircraft to land
The Associated Press

TEHRAN, Iran — Iranian news reports say Iran forced a Western aircraft that accidentally entered its airspace to land, then allowed the plane to continue after questioning its passengers.

The nationality of the plane is unclear. The semi-official Fars news agency says it was American, but the state-owned Al-Alam television quotes an unidentified senior Iranian official saying it belonged to a European aid agency. Neither report says when the incident took place.

Iranian Foreign Ministry spokesman Hasan Qashqavi says he has no information about the case.

Fars says the airplane was carrying five military officials and three civilians from Turkey to Afghanistan when it "unintentionally" entered Iranian airspace.
It says Iranian fighters guided the plane to an Iranian airport, the passengers were questioned and a day later were released and allowed to continue to their destination.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/ap/world/6044244.html

[ShortnFiery]

27. OMG! The GOPers are desperate. "Thanks for playing 'Grasping for Straws!" eom

[bdab1973]

29. That sounds likely...

The US military operates a handful of Falcon aircraft in the US for the Coast Guard. They are not equipped to fly officials in a passenger configuration. The US military generally does not charter civilian flights either for operational reasons. It could be likely that the aircraft was a US registered civilian aircraft chartered to an organization, but I highly doubt the US military would attempt to fly generals across Iran at "low level"...there's simply no reason to do so, not even remotely. Any reason you can think of I can give you an example of how the US military could accomplish that easily without operating such a risky type of flight.

To me it's a case of miscommunication between Iranian officials and their news outlets, and chances are it was a civil aircraft that unintentionally entered Iran. Some of those on board may have been US citizens, or the aircraft may have been US-registered, which could explain how the "it's American" thing got brought up.

[daleo]

77. European aid agencies fly American military officials around?

That doesn't sound like a good idea. The U.S. has plenty of military planes. Aid agencies should steer clear of military personnel.

[paparush]

28. What month is this again?

[Mabus]

48. Surprise, it's October!

Or should that be October Surprise?

How convenient, with the debate coming up tonight and McSlime slipping in the polls.

[paparush]

63. McCone - "...and my opponent wants to sit down and dialogue with these terrorists..

Repeat ad nauseum.
:puke:

[dipsydoodle]

30. BBC has removed reference to passengers

which originally stated 5 generals. However it's still here refered to as "militaries"

FNA dispatches said that the US Falcon jet had entered Iranian airspace from Turkey despite repeated warnings by the Islamic Republic Air Force.

The US jet was flying at low altitude in a bid to remain unnoticed by Iranian Radars, but it was made to touch down at an Iranian air port escorted by Air Force fighter jets.

The flying crew and passengers, including five US militaries and three civilians, were released after daylong interrogations revealed that they had violated Iranian airspace unintentionally as they were en route to Afghanistan.

The US Falcon and all those aboard left Iran for Afghanistan after receiving takeoff permission from Iranian authorities.

http://english.farsnews.com/newstext.php?nn=8707161284

[bdab1973]

33. Again...

--The US military only operates Falcons with the Coast Guard (HU-25C).

--The US military wouldn't risk losing an airplane by flying across Iran simply to get to Afghanistan.

--The US military knows that it can't fly an airplane across Iran without being detected, even if it's "low level"...you'd be surprised at how well air defense radar systems work.

--Anything the alleged US military aircraft would be doing could be safely done outside Iranian airspace (or well above where fighters couldn't get to it, ie satellite).

[Marie26]

45. So... what was it doing there? nt

[bdab1973]

56. Again, read the post

This aircraft is unlikely to have been a US military aircraft. It is likely to have been a civil aircraft that mistakenly flew into Iran's airspace.

[Marie26]

59. I never said it was

I asked, if it's not a US military plane, what was it doing there? What kind of flight is it?

[bdab1973]

61. The military isn't the only agency that flies aircraft in the middle east...

There are literally thousands of flights in and around Iran, Iraq and Turkey, all of them civilian flights. Most are charter flights for various purposes such as passenger or cargo transport. There's a huge mix of operators out here, from all over the world...I just saw an CentrAfrique Air Express flight the other day and never knew they even existed. That was in northern Iraq, near the Iranian border.

I'll say it again, as I've said a dozen times already...this flight was likely a charter flight that accidentally flew into Iranian airspace.

[Marie26]

64. Fine

Thanks for the info, though the attitude is a bit much.

[bdab1973]

62. The military isn't the only agency that flies aircraft in the middle east...

There are literally thousands of flights in and around Iran, Iraq and Turkey, all of them civilian flights. Most are charter flights for various purposes such as passenger or cargo transport. There's a huge mix of operators out here, from all over the world...I just saw an CentrAfrique Air Express flight the other day and never knew they even existed. That was in northern Iraq, near the Iranian border.

I'll say it again, as I've said a dozen times already...this flight was likely a charter flight that accidentally flew into Iranian airspace.

[happyslug]

72. You made your point, leave the people with conspiracy theories alone

This plane probably did as you said, flew in accidentally. Iran Air Force were set to intercept and escort it to an Iranian Airport. The crew was questioned (Probably more lectured NOT to enter Iranian Air Space) and left go. I like DU and have been on it for several years, but you will see that like other blogs you have a lot of people who conspiracy mindsets on DU. You can not change their mindsets, so just say your piece, provide your facts and read the conspiracy people for the fun. I like this and your previous posts, it was short and based on your personal knowledge. It was a kernel of truth in a bag trash, but that is how blogs like DU work, you read for the good points and ignore the trash. Make your point, base it on facts and then get on with your life, leave the conspiracy nuts have they say, Some of what they say may be true, most is not false, but also not true (it is their opinion). Look to DU for facts, provide facts and DU will be a good place for you (and you will improve DU) but do NOT get into arguments with Conspiracy advocates, they exist and sometime provide good information or point of view, but if your facts interfere with their conspiracy theory they will attack you. Just ignore the attacks and provide good information and people like me who read DU for Data will separate wheat like your two comments from the chaff in most of the comments on this thread.

[tburnsten]

79. Thanks!

I was getting tired of all the posts centered around questions such as "what was it doing there?" as if every single plane in the middle east with U.S. point of origin is military or up to something.

[Marie26]

46. So... what was it doing there? nt

[peacetalksforall]

38. :"escorted by Air Force figher jets" Should say Iranian Air Force?

I assumed American on the first reading because of the word escorted. Sounded protective.

[Posteritatis]

68. Why would an Iranian news article need to specify their own air force?

Though the article's ridiculous on its face anyway, what with that claim that an F-16 had eight people on board.

[gasperc]

31. everyone on board was released a day later

why is this story coming out now?

[dipsydoodle]

34. That struck me as odd too.

I think the news had wilfully been buried until they were released presumably following the findings that they were all McCain supporters and as such considered tp be undesirables. :)

I'm equally sure that the Pentagon are being economic with the truth with regard to knowledge of the subject.

[Peace Patriot]

53. Aha! McCain supporters!

:rofl:

[Tarc]

32. Now the Pentagon is saying that all planes are accounted for, and the Iranians are full of it

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE49653N20081007

This gets curiouser and curiouser.

[Ian David]

35. If John McCain had been onboard, they'd have 39 videos denouncing America by now. n/t

[Ian David]

36. Who do we believe? The crazy, lying Iranians, or the crazy, lying Bushies?

Oooh... it's a close call either way, isn't it?

[eowyn_of_rohan]

37. I believe BBC -nt

[maddezmom]

52. BBC has changed their story...Hungarians not Americans

Iran 'forces down foreign plane'

A foreign aircraft has been forced to land in Iran after violating Iranian airspace, Iranian media say.

State Al-Alam TV said the aircraft was Hungarian and not American, discounting earlier reports by Iran's semi-official Fars news agency.

The aircraft and those on board were allowed to continue their journey after being questioned, the reports said.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7657066.stm

[eowyn_of_rohan]

71. ok then, now I don't believe any of them

[peacetalksforall]

39. Has anyone read a day and time for this event?

[Scurrilous]

40. Iran says U.S. plane violated Iran's airspace

Source: Reuters

<snip>

"An Iranian news agency said on Tuesday that a U.S. military aircraft had unintentionally violated Iranian airspace and been forced to land in Iran, but later allowed to leave.

The semi-official Fars News Agency did not say when the incident happened or give a source for the report, which comes at a time of tension between Tehran and Washington over Iran's disputed nuclear program.

The news agency said five senior U.S. military officials had been interrogated at an Iranian airport and released a day later after it became clear the plane had not entered Iranian airspace intentionally.

"After it became clear that they unintentionally entered Iran's air space and their destination was Afghanistan, they were allowed to leave Iran for Afghanistan," Fars said.

In Washington, the Pentagon said it was unaware of any U.S. warplanes being forced to land in Iran and that all U.S. aircraft in the Gulf region were accounted for."

Read more: http://www.reuters.com/article/newsOne/idUSTRE49658920081007

[newfie11]

41. Now if it were reversed and an Iranian plane entered the US airspace

Would we really say it was unintentional and let them go,or send them to Gitmo.

[bdab1973]

58. What we did would depend on what the Iranians did

If an civil-registered Iranian aircraft entered US airspace unintentionally, it would likely be escorted back out of US airspace, and likely not forced to land. Two US fighters on the wing would probably send the appropriate message.

If it was an Iranian military aircraft (unlikely given tactical aircraft ranges) again it would be intercepted and there would be an attempt to herd it back into international airspace. That's pretty much the standard, and we've done that with Russian aircraft on occasion (although the Russians usually do not enter our airspace but fly just outside of it).

The only way I could see a USAF/USN aircraft engaging in hostilities of any kind were if the Iranian aircraft became hostile.

[The Stranger]

44. Didn't the U.S. shoot down an Iranian airliner in 1988 -- in Iranian airspace?

[dipsydoodle]

47. Yes they did

x( x( x(

[bdab1973]

60. That was the USS Vincennes in 1987 or 1988 I believe.

The ship was a guided missile cruiser in the Gulf, and the crew mistakenly thought it was an Iranian fighter (this happened not long after Iraq hit the USS Stark with a missile by mistake). There was an investigation I believe and the US settled with Iran in international court.

[krispos42]

65. Yeah, that's correct

The Vincennes shot down an Iranian airliner with surface-to-air missiles.

It looks like there was a lot of confusion in the cruiser's CIC at the time of the shootdown.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_Air_Flight_655

[dipsydoodle]

69. Oh yes

that was when in August 1988 Newsweek quoted the vice president as saying; "I'll never apologize for the United States of America. Ever, I don't care what the facts are."

No comment other than to say what else would expect from a four letter word second letter U.

[Matariki]

49. ODD NEWS REPORT in terms of WHEN this happened

The article indicates that the plane has already been 'released'

"Iranian TV said those on board were freed a day later and the aircraft allowed to continue its journey.

The reports did not say when the incident took place."

[maddezmom]

51. MSNBC now saying not Americans but Hungarians on the Plane

[trashcanistanista]

54. October surprise? Hostages?

Fabricated to call off the debate?

[progressivebydesign]

55. EDITED to reflect new developments: October surprise much? We tried this with Iraq to get a war

So it looks as tho the reports were corrected, and it was an aid plane with european military aboard, after all.

It's interesting how astute we all are now, expecting the repukes/pnac to create a crisis in October. Sad commentary, indeed. Glad it was a non-story, but I wonder how many repukes will use it for their benefit. Watch for it in one of Caribou Barbie's speeches soon...



Hmmm.. for anyone that is too young to remember, Reagan/Bush and their sleazy connections (ala Iran/Contra) used the hostages to defeat Jimmy Carter. As McKeating & Bush HAVE ties to the Iran/Contra felons, he is no doubt trying to get something going with Iran. Either they don't realize that if we are involved in something like this before the election we are LESS likely to want Caribou Barbie as the possible Commander in Chief.. OR this is bigger than McKeating, and the industrial military complex wants to get that war going in Iran BEFORE Obama takes office (to get their gravy train going AND make it harder for Obama.)

Fuck the warmongers.

[Doctor_J]

66. Better have Capt. McSame fly his F4 in and rescue them

"Mission Accomplished"

[AndyTiedye]

70. Not a US Plane. Hungarian. Released Already

[bananas]

73. LA Times links to this Fars News article: "Source Elaborates on US Jet Landing"

This LA Times article: http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/washingtondc/la-fg-iran8-2008oct08,0,540603.story
has an embedded link to this Fars News article:

http://www.farsnews.com/English/newstext.php?nn=8707161473

08 Oct 2008 تهران-02:19 / GMT-22:49

News numbre: 8707161473
19:30 | 2008-10-07

Source Elaborates on US Jet Landing

TEHRAN (FNA)- A military source of Iran's Arms Forces Tuesday elaborated on reports that Iranian fighter jets forced a US aircraft to land in the country.

The source also went on to say that the Falcon jet announcing a military flight code intended to enter Iran's airspace on September 30.

Iran opposed to allow it to pass the flight space, then, the aircraft changed the route, the source added.

The source also said that the Islamic Republic of Iran agreed to the aircraft request to enter the country's airspace, because it declared a non-military flight code for the second time.

According to the official, after entering the Iranian flight area, the identity of the aircraft was found the same military one, which tried to pass the airspace two hours earlier, thus, Iran's fighter jets forced it to land in.

The source further underlined that people on board of the military aircraft were from another country, adding that Iran allowed it to continue to fly after proving their good-will.

[Eugene]

74. Hungarian plane detained, released the next day

Source: BBC News

Page last updated at 15:05 GMT,
Tuesday, 7 October 2008 16:05 UK

Iran 'forces down foreign plane'

A foreign aircraft has been forced to land in Iran
after violating Iranian airspace, Iranian media say.

State Al-Alam TV said the aircraft was Hungarian
and not American, discounting earlier reports by
Iran's semi-official Fars news agency.

-snip-

The official said the aircraft was a Hungarian aid
plane which strayed into Iranian airspace.

-snip-

Iranian media said those on board were freed the
following day and the plane was allowed to complete
its journey to Afghanistan.

Read more: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7657066.stm

[ohio2007]

75. did the price of oil reverse its downward slide?

they gotta do something to reverse their fortunes

[OakCliffDem]

78. This looks like a practice run at an October Surprise

[TankLV]

81. and they were all attacked and promptly eaten - news at 11...

damn those mooselimbs all to hell!!!

[TankLV]

82. and they were all attacked and promptly eaten - news at 11...

damn those mooselimbs all to hell!!!

[TankLV]

83. and they were all attacked and promptly eaten - news at 11...

[TankLV]

84. and they were attacked and promptly eaten - news at 11...