A move to secede on California-Oregon border

[Newsjock]

Source: San Francisco Chronicle

Siskiyou County Some folks around here think the economic sky is falling and state lawmakers in Sacramento and Salem are ignoring their constituents in the hinterlands.

Guess the time is ripe to create a whole new state.

That's the thinking up here along the border between California and Oregon, where 12 sparsely populated, thickly forested counties in both states want to break away and generate the 51st star on the nation's flag - the state of Jefferson.

... The Grange Hall of Yreka, a farm-based service organization, is activating 51 of its brethren halls in the area to collect 1 million signatures to have a statehood advisory measure put on the California ballot. Tony Intiso, a runoff candidate in the Nov. 4 election for Siskiyou County Board of Supervisors, has pledged to force the issue and is running campaign ads calling for regional freedom. The number of registered users of a decade-old Web site advocating partition has suddenly shot from dozens to more than 900.

... "If you want any chance of fixing things, sometimes you have to break the system," said Leo Bergeron, master of Yreka's Greenhorn Grange Hall and past master of the statewide, agriculturally oriented Grange service club. "Now, we have to break the system."

Read more: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/10/04/MNNP138DLP.DTL&tsp=1

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http://www.jeffersonstate.com

[rockymountaindem]

1. Well, hey, at least they don't want to leave the US entirely

unlike Mr. Palin.

[Nambe]

8. They didn´t say they don´t want to secede.

They just can´t afford the fence yet.

[dubeskin]

2. Now that's just stupid

Forming a new state will not only increase the debt tremendously but instead of having the taxes in one state, they'll simply move to another. Plus, that's so close to home.
e
It's crazy that there are actually people around. If anything, it should be California that secedes to form it's own country.

[Trillo]

38. I'm reminded of Arnold "The Terminator" Schwarzenegger

Instead of sucking up to the U.S. debt making machine, he could have had some balls instead. He could have decided to tell the Federal Reserve that California needs it's own currency, not connected to the Fed's "worthless paper" fiat money.

Next thing you know, some localities such as cities, counties and towns might decide the same thing, that they need their own currency, independent of California's.

Guess the aging Terminator didn't have enough muscle to push that domino. It was all just Television Fantasy.

[lakeguy]

3. how can you break the system when the system is broken?

that said, these people are on the right track.

[mike_c]

4. proud Jeffersonian here....

Humboldt County, CA.

U.S. out of Humboldt County!

[Hayduke Lives]

10. I left my heart in Jefferson

Both my kids were born deep in the backwoods of Jefferson ("Oregon" side).

I miss the manzanita and live oaks. Giant cedars and Doug firs in the north slopes of the Kalmiopsis. The homegrown and homebrewed. Sustainable anarchy and interconnected libertarianism. Remind me again why I left?

[XemaSab]

48. For serious

We could legalize pot and tax it to pay for social services.

:smoke:

[Lydia Leftcoast]

5. This is actually not a new movement but a revival of an old one

The public radio station in Ashland (near the California border) is not part of Oregon Public Radio. It's its own entity, Jefferson Public Radio, and has been for years.

[WheelWalker]

6. There is no "Oregon Public Radio". "Jefferson Public Radio" is just a gimmick. For years.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

7. Sorry, it's Oregon Public Broadcasting

They're in charge of both radio and TV. My error.

But the Ashland-based station has its own schedule and magazine, both of which are different from the Portland/Corvallis-based stations.

[CreekDog]

22. OPB as in Radio Lady

:hide: :evilgrin: thought she seceded from us already. :shrug:

[WheelWalker]

35. Yes. Up north, OPB broadcasts radio, too. Good catch.

[WheelWalker]

9. There is no "Oregon Public Radio". "Jefferson Public Radio" is just a gimmick. For years.

[depakid]

11. it's pretty well non-stop classical music

which a great- for a while.

http://www.ijpr.org/

Many of the towns in the region hearken back to the 1950's. Etna, for example, still has a soda jerk. Sawyer's Bar is right out of the the "gold rush" West, and Somes Bar- well, that's a sacred place.

If you're kind and cool- and a bit patient, maybe the Karuk will tell you something about it. Maybe even invite you to a dance in a place called Happy Camp.

http://karuk.us/

[mike_c]

28. those are some of my favorite places on Earth....

Forks-of-Salmon is the epicenter of my universe.

[PufPuf23]

31. Forks of Salmon

My great great Grandmother is the oldest woman buried in the Forks of Salmon cemetary and two of my great great aunts were sequentially married (one died relatively young) to William Porter Bennett (founder of Forks of Salmon). Much family history in the area. I live in Humboldt county as well.

[shraby]

12. Upper Michigan has wanted to be a

separate state for a long time too. What happens there is probably the same thing as in California. The tax money goes to Lansing and never makes it way back to the upper peninsula. Most is spent south of Midland, Michigan because that's where the bulk of the population is.

[nebenaube]

36. that's too bad...

because the UP in reality should belong to WI!!!! then we can talk about succession. :)

[Old Codger]

13. Good idea

In Oregon, Portland, Salem, Albany and Eugene control the state, that leaves all of us in the southern part of the state basically at their whim. Same happens to Northern Cal. the state is controlled by everything from Sacramento south... north has nothing to say about what happens to them they are outnumbered and out voted laws and regulations that make sense in the urban setting make no sense at all out here in the countryside, not really representative government... yeah Jefferson...

[mcking]

14. Albany controls the state?

hahahahahahaha!

Maybe you're thinking of Corvallis?

[harpboy_ak]

15. They just want to steal the water

They just want to steal the Klamath River water from the Klamath tribe and from the salmon.

Buncha ignorant rednecks on both sides of the state lines. Beautiful country, but the white folks there have ruint it with excessive irrigation and too much logging.

[LeftyMom]

16. Rednecks with politics so far right they make Bush look like a liberal and Paul look sane.

If they had their own way, there'd hardly be a tree left within a generation.

Well, the stoners on the coast would bitch about it, but they'd be outvoted and outgunned. Literally. My guess is you'd see a whole lot of people moving down-coast, say roughly Santa-Cruzish.

Not that it matters- until salmon count as population, far-Northern California and Southern Oregon could barely scrape up enough votes to win an election for student council.

[kestrel91316]

43. I tend to agree. Did they ever get the farmers to give up some of the

water for the river after the massive fish die-off a few years ago??

[XemaSab]

50. Excessive irrigation?

I think you'll have to look a LOT further south than Jefferson to see that on a wide scale.

You have to get AT LEAST down to Glenn. :D

[FVZA_Colonel]

17. Isn't this one of those things that's been around for decades that nothing ever comes of?

Somehow I doubt that, once again, anything will come of it.

[LeftyMom]

18. Yes.

Everytime the economy tanks it comes up. Like clockwork.

[krkaufman]

19. Yeah, like they'll be granted statehood.

If they think they're gonna gain disproportionate weight in Congress and in the selection of the President by getting their own personal pair of Senators and a House representative, they have another think coming.

I'm taking my ball and going home.

[Waiting For Everyman]

20. People might've thought about that before they broke it.

[CreekDog]

21. Just what the USA needs, a state poorer than Mississippi

:eyes:

this isn't going to happen because California would have to agree to it, and these 12 counties are perhaps 10% of the state's population.

i didn't read the article, but i'm guessing folks behind this want Klamath River water going to their farms instead of for Salmon.

(disclaimer: i voted for the advisory measure on secession in 1991 when it was on our San Mateo County ballot in 1991, but that included us and it was to secede from Southern California :shrug: )

[XemaSab]

51. This has been around since before World War II

Also, to the folks up here, SACRAMENTO is Southern California. :P

[NuttyFluffers]

23. i really hope they don't even though i understand their frustration

just because so much highway fund money goes to LA for another brand new freeway every few years instead of repairing much needed main arteries in SF Bay Area, doesn't mean that i want to be separated from LA. we may agree on little, and sort of get on each other's nerves at times, and have a different cultural outlook, but i really do like them -- they're fellow californians. kinda the same way i feel about the Central Valley and Northern Forests people -- they're still fellow californians.

that and their economy is so low and so much of the community thinking is poorly supported by lack of good schools, colleges, and jobs, that they'll likely mow down all the beautiful trees in a decade or two in a short-sighted effort to make money. it's already hard enough as is to stop them from mowing down national treasures of beautiful redwood and sequoia forest. imagine if they had no dissenting voices?

[Waiting For Everyman]

24. Hey, they could hook up with the AK secessionists

and become "Alaska South". Ah heck, they may as well join China.

[pollo poco]

25. Jefferson Local Here...

I wouldn't want to live in the "Jefferson State". It would be about a bunch of seriously ignorant rednecks. It's bad enough the way it is. Beautiful country. Ugly, ugly culture. Ignorant, and proud of it. I know, because I have lived north of the border for 25 years. These people seriously hate us for our freedoms. Racist, homophobic, and xenophobic beyond anything I have experienced anywhere else. They won't pay taxes for schools want to cut all the trees,joke about the demise of salmon, and they are proud PROUD of how they did the injuns. We have a road called "Dead Indian Road". When the goddamn libruls n californicators (you know, the goddamn Sahara Club- yes I have heard these dumb sh**s mispronouncing Sierra Club- and it wasn't a joke) suggested that the name was offensive, it was changed to "Dead Indian Memorial Road". But the most popular suggestion was "Good Indian Road". Get it? Good equals Dead, when it comes to Injuns. HaHaHaHa- ain't that funny? Or are you a faggot who hates america?

Thank God for Portland and San Francisco.

Now, if you want to talk about pulling out of the US as the state of "Pacifica", I think California, Oregon and Washington would be an awesome country. We could have trains, education, managed resources, organic agriculture, take out the dams and perfect our solar desalinization techniques ;). It already is paradise. Oregon is taxed way more by the feds than is ever returned to it. Likewise, US policies allow our natural resources to stripped from us with very low return to the state- as if we were a third world country. "Pacifica" would be one of the wealthiest nations in the world, if we didn't have to pay for stop signs, prisons, and divorce courts, for the indolent haters below the Mason Dixon line, who return the favor by calling us fruits and nuts, and sending money to roll back our gay rights initiatives.

[GregD]

27. I'm local too. Where ya at?

I live within a mile of the headwaters of the Sacramento River. This is truly gorgeous country, and I can't believe I live here. We even got snow back on our magnificent mountain with the storm that moved through the past few days.

I'm hard-pressed accepting the generalized assertion of the ugly culture. There are certainly regions of Siskiyou that are brutally conservative, but here in Mount Shasta it is a wonderful mix of lefties, righties and spiritual woo-woo's seeking to absorb the power of the mountain. Geographically, this is the largest county in the state and the smallest population. Politically there are more registered Republicans than Democrats, but not more than 50%, so both sides have to rely upon indy voters to get anything done.

I do have to admit, however, that the Siskiyou County Board of Supervisors are largely a bunch of neanderthals. Large ag and landholders havfe a chokehold on that (not so) venerable organization. I wish Messer had won a couple years and that Jim Hardy was running a better campaign. Doesn't look like the Board will get much better in the near future as it appears that Valenzuela will take the open seat which is a pity.

We have lots of water here and lots of land, but not much more. ZERO economic base and the will to pay taxes largely is not there, so lots of luck with that State of Jefferson project - not likely! But I do like the idea of the state of Pacifica.

[XemaSab]

53. I hate to disagree with you

but I think San Bernardino is the biggest county in the state. I also suspect that Alpine has the smallest population.

Hi from Redding! :hi:

[pink-o]

29. And the first thing we need to do is legalise our biggest cash crop!

...also, it's totally sustainable cousin, Hemp.

I would love to live in the People's republic of Pacifica, or Ecotopia, as it was called in the '70's book. Especially since California has always been at the cutting edge for any progressive health issues. Not just for the US, but globally! We were the first to ban smoking in certain places; now you can't even smoke in buildings in FRANCE. If we'd been allowed to pass those strict emissions standards a few years ago, I can guarantee everyone else would be on the bandwagon by now. But to this bastard administration, State's Rights only mean anti-abortion laws, not medical marijuana, clean air, or in Oregon's case assisted suicide.

So I've long wished we could be our own republic, bcuz I'm bloody sick of fighting regressive reactionaries over what will inevitably come to pass anyway!

[WriteDown]

58. Banning smoking is now a progressive issue...

and I always thought WE were the ones who believed in freedom? :shrug:

[Bill McBlueState]

32. maybe get BC to join up with you, too

On the other end of the continent, I've been thinking New York, New England, Ontario, Quebec, and the Atlantic Provinces would make a good country.

[EFerrari]

37. Wow.

:wow:

[delete_bush]

40. Pacifica sounds good to me

Oregon is taxed way more by the feds than is ever returned to it.

Using 2005 data, for every federal tax dollar collected, Oregon received $.93 back. Net loss of $1.7 billion.

Likewise, the number for Washington is $.89.

The real kicker is California. For every federal tax dollar collected, we received only $.80 back. Due to the huge population, that translates into a net loss of close to $60 billion.

The welfare states are almost universally Red, while the income producing, tax-paying states are largely Blue.

[Angleae]

46. Where did you get your data?

Not that I'm disagreeing with you, but I'd like to see the data from the other states.

[delete_bush]

56. Here you go...

I downloaded the info into an Excel spreadsheet, but can't locate the original site which I'm almost positive was a government site.

I did find the same chart on this site...

Link

Am still trying to find the original site, which had explanatory information. If you're interested I'll send it to you when I bump into it again.

Again, it's interesting that of the top 20 "welfare" states, 17 are Red. Of those states who pay in more than is returned, 14 are Blue (based on 2004 election).

[Angleae]

60. Thank you

[KamaAina]

41. Hey! What about us?

I think California, Oregon and Washington would be an awesome country.

Hawai'i was an awesome country once, right up until the Marines showed up!

Of course, that'd put a big ol' monkey wrench into your plans for trains... :-)

edit: spelling

[BearSquirrel2]

26. Yeah like ...

Yeah, like were going to allow 2 more Republican Senators to waltz into Senate chambers.

Like it or not, we are a Republic and because of our unfair system of representation in the Senate, states must ALWAYS be admitted in pairs.

I'll tell you what, maybe we in Northwest Indiana can secede as our money goes to Indianapolis and does not really come back.

How many urban areas could seceed and blanket rural voters? In the end it speaks to the weirdness of our system that "protects small states" ... and underpopulated ones. But just imagine if Chicago, New York and Los Angeles were to seceed from their states!!!! How about Atlanta? How many Senators would we pick up?

[Tikki]

30. At the end of the article a lady states....

...we have no political power...

This Jefferson does not want to pay taxes..then why do they
even need political power...they aren't planning to ask for
Federal monies are they?...I mean wouldn't they be a self-contained entity...
They wouldn't expect us to pay any taxes for them ...would they?


Tikki

[roamer65]

33. The US could very well be the next Yugoslavia...

if this economic crisis becomes a depression.

[IndianaGreen]

39. particularly if the GOP steals this election

who wants to be part of a bunch of losers; an empire in decline is not the place to be.

[brentspeak]

49. That could very well be true

It's not inconceivable for all kinds of secession and/or consolidation movements to pop-up within the United States in the event of economic upheaval.

[WheelWalker]

34. The Republic of Cascadia....State of Jefferson

[Ferret Annica]

52. I am a Cascadian and would like the U.S. out of the NW

Ernest Callenbach wrote a book about a secessionist movement creating a country called "Ecotopia," sort of a laid back Red China the way he envisioned it.

I envision a more natural law oriented Cascadia, not a republic. But what do you expect, I am a anarchist from Eugene, Oregon.

[TrogL]

42. They should become a Canadian Province

[nosmokes]

44. But they're already part of Salmon Nation...

[Joanne98]

45. I use to live in Siskiyou County. They've been talking about this for a long time.

They are sick of southern CA taking all their water. Water wars are fierce there. I think it's a good idea. Don't worry, lot's of old hippies. No way would it go red.

[Ferret Annica]

54. The cement cave man in Grant's Pass can be the symbol

if the Nation of Jefferson becomes real and is run by the survivalist whack jobs in SW Oregon and nearby California occupied Oregon to the south.

[XemaSab]

47. .

:patriot:

[Say_What]

55. The State of Jefferson and desire to secede dates back to the 1940s

http://www.jeffersonstate.com/

That barn and the cow are right on I-5 North just south of Yreka and Jefferson Public radio is great.

[PufPuf23]

57. Jefferson Scenic Byway

is a US Forest Service Road from just west of Cave Junction, OR that crosses the state line into CA on the pass over Grayback Mountain and terminates at Happy Camp on the Klamath River.

There are enclaves of liberals such as Mt. Shasta and Ashland but most of the eastern counties are politically very Red in nature. Mendocino and Humboldt counties are more liberal except for old monied interests (such as corporate forestry). I would be against Jefferson as presented here because the inland population centers (Medford, Redding, Klamath Falls)and scattered rural populations away from the coast are painfully conservative. There are significant populations of NAs as well. I live in a small town more than 50% NA.

I too like the ideas in Ecotopia. My version would be CA north of the Tehachapis, OR, WA, BC, Yukon, and SE Alaska. We would be the most beautiful nation on the planet.

[yellowcanine]

59. I am not sure there is a constitutional mechanism to do this. The only time it has happened is

with West Virginia, and Virginia was not part of the Union at the time, having seceeded themselves. So WV was free to come in as a new state.