Pastor: GOP may be downplaying Palin's religious beliefs

[True_Blue]

Source: CNN

WASILLA, Alaska (CNN) -- For more than two decades, current Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin was a practicing Pentecostal.

She belonged to the Wasilla Assembly of God church in her hometown of Wasilla, Alaska. But though she attended the church from her teenage years through to 2002, she hasn't talked much about her religion since joining the Republican ticket.

Palin's former pastor, Tim McGraw, says that like many Pentecostal churches, some members speak in tongues, although he says he's never seen Palin do so. Church member Caroline Spangler told CNN, "When the spirit comes on you, you utter things that nobody else can understand ... only God can understand what is coming out of our mouths."

Some Pentecostals from Assembly of God also believe in "faith healing" and the "end times" -- a violent upheaval that they believe will deliver Jesus Christ's second coming.



Read more: http://edition.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/09/08/palin.pastor/?iref=mpstoryview

[wtmusic]

1. She's already uttering things nobody else can understand

The spirit is on her!

[lavenderdiva]

3. LOL! you have me laughing...

and not in the spirit either. :hi: :rofl:

[glinda]

6. Hysterical!!!!!!!!

That is really funny!

[firedupdem]

2. Okay I get it..

"When the spirit comes on you, you utter things that nobody else can understand ... only God can understand what is coming out of our mouths."


Thats great! What if the spirit comes on her when she supposed to be making an important decision?

[MarjorieG]

4. It's enough to say that policy is creationism in schools and abstinence only.

That's relatable enough, and bad.

[Sal316]

5. I call horseshit.

Glossolalia is evidence of baptism in the spirit and of being born again in the Pentecostal church. In fact, speaking in tongues is one of the Universal Truths of the AoG Pentecostals and is a requirement for salvation.

From the Wasilla AoG website :

From its founding, The General Council of the Assemblies of God has recognized the baptism in the Holy Spirit as an experience distinct from and subsequent to the experience of the new birth. It has also recognized that the initial physical evidence of the baptism in the Spirit is speaking in tongues.

Fundamental Truth 8: The baptism of believers in the Holy Spirit is witnessed by the initial physical sign of speaking with other tongues as the Spirit of God gives them utterance (Acts 2:4). The speaking in tongues in this instance is the same in essence as the gift of tongues (1 Corinthians 12:4—10,28), but different in purpose and use.

An Experience Subsequent to Regeneration

The baptism in the Spirit is subsequent to and distinct from the new birth. Scripture clearly describes a conversion experience in which the Holy Spirit baptizes believers into the body of Christ (1 Corinthians 12:13). Scripture just as clearly describes an experience in which Christ baptizes believers in the Holy Spirit (Matthew 3:11). These cannot refer to the same experience since the agent who does the baptizing and the element into which the candidate is baptized are different in each case.9

14. What about persons who are convinced they were baptized in the Holy Spirit in a definite encounter with God, but did not speak in tongues until some time later?

Since the Bible teaches and demonstrates that tongues are the initial evidence of receiving the baptism in the Holy Spirit, the Church cannot confirm the opinion of individuals until they actually speak in tongues.

According to AoG doctrine, if you don't speak in tounges, you ain't a pentecostal and you ain't saved....

[ladywnch]

16. isn't it true that back in colonial times if you 'spoke in tounges' that you were a witch?

if so, how did the reverse come to be 'truth'?

[LibertyLover]

29. No, if you don't speak in tongues you haven't received the

baptism of the Holy Spirit. I attended an AoG church for a few years when I was in college and being saved was different from the baptism of the Holy Spirit. You could be saved and baptized in water but not yet baptized in the Holy Spirit. But you could not be baptized in the Holy Spirit without having been saved first. By "saved" I mean that you confessed Jesus as your Lord and Saviour. I was raised Roman Catholic and was taught that by receiving the sacrament of confirmation I had received the baptism of the Holy Spirit. AoGers don't see it that of course because confirmation does not produce what they see as the outward signs of baptism of the Holy Spirit - speaking in tongues (glossolalia), interpretation of tongues, discerning spirits, etc. Of course I managed to screw with the minds of the AoG church I attended. I never went up for altar call to be saved, because I didn't believe it was necessary and never asked for adult baptism, feeling that once was enough. Of course I was told by the pastor and the elders that Catholic baptism didn't count. At least they did until the day that I began speaking in tongues, evidencing the outward signs for the AoG that I had been saved and baptized in the Holy Spirit. Those couple of years were interesting. The AoG church I went to with friends never did know what to make of me. I did not believe in the inerrancy of the Bible or in Bible literalism. I believed in evolution. I never underwent a conversion experience or was re-baptized. Yet, I spoke in tongues. When I said good-bye to the pastor at the last service I attended before leaving to go to the University of Chicago, he told me that as much as he liked me he was glad I was leaving because he could not explain how I did some of the things I did without believing as the AoG did. Now that I'm an ordained Wiccan high priestess, I imagine that I'd really perplex and bother him to no end.

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

7. I remember when those churches said...

That those speaking in tongues were speaking an ancient language, like Aramaic. I guess that one got bit in the butt by science, too.

It's hard to keep up with them people and their delusions of the day.

[intheflow]

8. Did you see the interview clip with her father?

He said that although he went to church, he wasn't saved. But all his kids were. He said, "Religion is very, very important to them. Very important.... <Religion is important in my life,> but not as important as it is to the kids. The kids just live it. I don't live it like they do."

:scared:

[atjrpsych]

9. so basically she is delusional

[creeksneakers2]

10. I don't see what's up with the focus on her religion

Her religion sounds weird to outsiders but all religions have stuff that sounds weird to outsiders. As much as the press and the Repubicans made an issue of Obama's church, they'll consider it an outrageous assault against their deepest beliefs if one of their churches is criticized. Remember how nobody was allowed to talk about Romney being a Mormon?

I don't see how praying for oil pipelines or the rest of it hurts anybody. The likely outcome of attacking her religion will be the same kind of backlash McCain/Palin conjured up by announcing the teenage daughter pregnancy and then making themselves the victims of the attention that got. I read last night that McCain's campaign manager likes to plant seeds around the Internet. Beware!

[kath]

23. Have you done any reading on Dominionism or Christian Reconstructionism? Or Joel's Army, a group

which has ties to one or more of Palin's churches?

Links here:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x6969738#6970134

[Igel]

31. Yes, but you're playing two different games.

The first is that the organization requires lockstep, uniform enforcement of beliefs.

Just like every Democrat accepts wholeheartedly everything in the Democratic Party Platform. Why? Because they're Democrats. What more proof do we need.

Right. That argument doesn't fly, now does it? Personally, I can attest that even organizations with rather solid and all-encompassing sets of doctrines can still tolerate a fair amount of disagreement, leaving whether to stay or leave up to a personal decision by the parishioner. (Although it's telling that she did, in fact, leave, while remaining in touch with the group. Just as Obama and Hillary and * and no doubt McCain have attended a variety of churches while campaigning and being politicians.)

Second, that "ties" are important, and if one subgroup of a group has a "tie" or "link", then every component must. And if every subgroup does, that means (by #1) that every person does). So if a local dem party has some link to an anarchist organization, then all dem parties in the US and territories are tied to anarchists; and, of course, then all dems are anarchists. It just keeps getting sillier.

Note the same reasoning with Saddam. He had links with Gami'ah islamiyah in Egypt in the early '90s; the report showing no clear link to AQ states as much, citing evidence. Zawahri was a big name in GI; he's AQ's #2. Therefore Saddam had links with AQ, since there are links between AQ and GI. Same reasoning. Logic leads you ineluctably to one of two conclusions: Either Saddam *did* have links with AQ, along with every member of his government; or the logic's whacked and the truth of the assertion depends crucially not on logic, but on sheer ascertainment of raw facts. I say the logic's whacked; if you have no ties, you have no ties, unless you can cite evidence (not a flawed argument).

[Frank Cannon]

28. Did you ever see the movie "The Dead Zone"?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3CdKuLRmg8k

Martin Sheen's character Greg Stillson was the first thing I thought of when I heard her insane ramblings.

[RamboLiberal]

11. On Campbell Brown's show tonight they mentioned the McSame

campaign has been protesting this coverage of Palin's religion. I bet they are.

Wow - just what we need in the Oval office a raputurist wanting to bring on the end times near the nuclear button.

Hey, if Alaska is so close to Russia, why are they so damn sure that it will be a refuge when the end times come?

[madamesilverspurs]

12. For the sake of honesty, folks...

I am fortunate to have a number of practicing Pentecostals among my friends, along with Baptists, Methodists, Lutherans, Catholics, Jews, Buddhists, agnostics and an atheist or two. With the possible exception of one agnostic friend, whose problems with booze have on occasion landed him in jail for brawling, none of them is anything but an everyday normal human being. They aren't at all the extreme behavioral freaks that have become sad caricatures on the far right. Let's not go painting all people of faith with someone else's brush, okay?

[amandabeech]

14. Bringing religion into the discussion is indeed tricky.

The way I see it is that her religious views may influence considerably what she would do in office.

For example, believers of all faiths may pray to their gods for guidance in difficult circumstances. I'm a lapsed, unconfirmed Methodist, and believe me, I have prayed from time to time for guidance.

However, the difference between me and Gov. Palin is that I don't believe that whatever course of action I choose was given to me by God, but she may.

People acting on their own thoughts but thinking that they are doing God's will have a difficult time changing their views when circumstances warrant because, after all, they are doing God's will. George Bush may be like this.

With Palin, there is also the possibility that she really thinks that we are in "end times," and that Alaska is going to be a refuge for believers when things get tough.

If a President thinks that the end of the world is coming soon and is inevitable, what incentive does that person have to keep the peace or keep the planet's ecosystem from deteriorating to the point that life is unrecognizable?

As to the latter, James Watt, Ronnie Raygun's first Secretary of the Interior, thought that plundering the planet was okay because God would end the mess soon with the Second Coming.

It is the possibility of that kind of extreme thinking that makes Palin dangerous, and outside the mainstream in all but perhaps one of the religions and religious denominations that you have cited.

My experience is that it is very difficult to pick up on whether an individual thinks that he or she has a direct line to God or whether he or she thinks that Jesus is coming in 10 years and would promote policies that reflected that view.

Again, it is a tricky thing, but I don't think it is out of line to bring out rather out-of-the-mainstream religious beliefs that may greatly determine a candidate's choices while in office.

[madamesilverspurs]

15. Concur.

My concern was that the discussion not disintegrate (as has happened here before) into a flame-fest where people of faith, regardless of variety, are held up to ridicule for the sake of enjoying the name-calling.

[amandabeech]

19. I concur with your concurrence.

There is a real anti-religious group here that can't seem to distinguish among particular religious beliefs and religious persons.

Perhaps because I have more experience with Christianity, I often am appalled at being lumped in with snake handlers and Second Coming folks of all stripes.

I wish some folks would do a little internet AND real world research before they post on religion.

[madamesilverspurs]

30. Amen!

[Psst_Im_Not_Here]

13. Aren't snake handlers also a subsect of Pentecostals?

Just curious.

[and-justice-for-all]

17. When the 'spirit' comes on me...

I just ask it does not get in my hair..

[0rganism]

18. Gee, ya think?

Even a lot of American voters who agree with her in church on Sunday might just be a bit on edge about having someone that extreme carrying the launch codes. The only way they'll back her is if she successfully downplays it, with help from party elders and the lap-dog media.

[Psst_Im_Not_Here]

20. Just phrase it this way

If someone is praying for the end times, they have no business anywhere near the red button.

[Karenina]

27. BUMPER STICKER!!!

:applause:

[still_one]

21. I would suspect the GOP would want to downplay it. The media hardly mentions it

With the intense coverage of Obama's Church, I only think it "fair and balanced" for them to do the same thing here, along with some of the statements that have come out of her church

[cartach]

24. It would help a hell of a lot

if Obama and company let loose a few attack dogs on the subject. If they came out with a few negative statements denouncing Palin's religious beliefs then the media would be forced to report on the subject. It's time to take off the gloves and leave the B.S. about fair play and taking the high road for better times. The upcoming election is too important for the future of America and waiting for the MSM to generate the news by asking all the questions is a waste of time.

[still_one]

25. Perfect venue for 527s, but I don't know if they want to go there because of the

religious angle

[AlphaCentauri]

22. That must be the reason why she won't face the press

no body would understand her

[heliarc]

26. Sing Little bird.. Sing... nt