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Khephra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-05-04 05:17 AM
Original message
Some Christians See 'Passion' as Evangelism Tool
snip...........

"I don't know of anything since the Billy Graham crusades that has had the potential of touching so many lives," said Morris H. Chapman, president of the executive committee of the Southern Baptist Convention, the nation's largest Protestant denomination. "It's like the Lord somehow laid in our lap something that could be a great catalyst for spiritual awakening in this nation."

The movie opens on Ash Wednesday, Feb. 25, and Christian groups are already distributing merchandise to capitalize on the moment. There are lapel pins in Aramaic, the language of much of the film, and "witnessing cards" to give those who ask about the pin; door hangers for the neighbors; one million tracts asking moviegoers to "Take a moment right now and say a prayer like this," and a CD-ROM for teenagers that features a downloadable picture of a nine-inch nail like those that pinned Jesus to the cross.

snip...................

Mr. Gibson's film company has hired several marketing firms experienced in reaching Christian audiences, including the publicist for the Rev. Billy Graham. But much of the promotion was initiated by an assortment of ministry agencies, churches and individual Christians.

One of these, the American Tract Society in Garland, Tex., proclaims on its Web site that the movie is "one of the greatest opportunities for evangelism in 2,000 years." Daniel Southern, the society's president, said his group had produced two tracts tied into the movie, and expected one to sell over one million copies. The only involvement of Mr. Gibson's company, Mr. Southern said, was in granting permission to use a movie photograph on the cover.

"This is an unprecedented opportunity that the average Christian needs to seize," Mr. Southern said. "You'll run into people at work who've seen the movie, and you can say, `Have you ever thought about why Christ had to die?' And then you can say: `This tract has one take on that and I'd like to share it with you.' And you hand them the tract."

more...............

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/02/05/national/05CHRI.html
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leesa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-05-04 08:53 AM
Response to Original message
1. The cult of the 9-inch nail...
I wish these people would use the brains their god gave them.
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Mari333 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-05-04 09:05 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. and dont forget what BILLY GRAHAM said about Jews
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Mari333 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-05-04 08:56 AM
Response to Original message
2. I always laugh
when people come up to me and say
"Have you heard of Jesus"?
I say
"No! Ive been living in a CAVE on MARS all my life."
Nonetheless I usually know the bible wayyyyyyyy better then they do and start spouting off verses at them.
They think they own the concept of what Christ means. They freak out when you offer them a new definition of the Gnosis.
They usually run away.
They dont OWN the definition of Christianity, and its about time a lot of real Christians , who adhere to the concept of love and compassion, take it back.
As for the movie..its Catholic, and a LOT of Protestant fundamentalists HATE Catholics I can assure you..they think they worship idols and the Pope is the anti christ.
I find it amusing, except for the fact that these theocratic hypocrites vote for *bU$h.
In the meantime, I refuse to see the movie, as I think Gibson is a whack job anyway. Let him do a story on Tammuz, Adonis, or Osiris. Connect the dots to ancient fertility gods.
Funny how a whole movie comes out about Buddha and NO Buddhist yells "HEY! we can evangelise people to Buddha now!"
These people arent Christians imo who want to evangelize
I call them PAULISTS.
Besides, if Jesus came back they would throw him into Gitmo as a radical rebel and he would be speaking Aramic .
No, they dont OWN Christianity. If Jesus did exist, believe me, he was the last christian on earth.
Maybe when it says "Dont use the Lords name in vain" it means
"Dont use my name to sell me a lot of evangelical brouhaha and bullshit and make wars off my name and money for your friends..."
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Hell Hath No Fury Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-05-04 11:06 AM
Response to Reply #2
8. "Mary Worshippers"
Edited on Thu Feb-05-04 11:16 AM by Hell Hath No Fury
is the term I've heard used by fundies most about Catholics. When a Baptist friend of my Catholic Mom's said that about her, she was pretty surprised. All along SHE thought she had been a follower of Jesus!

When I mentioned on an AOL board that, if Jesus would come back today, he sure as heck wouldn't be sitting next to Pat on "The 700 Club" but would probably be working in an urban AIDS hospice, I was told by more than one fundy poster that I was a sick person who lived a life of filth.

I kid you not.

I find evangelism of the fundy kind intolerable -- they come off like hard-sell salespeople.

The only religious people I have personally been touched by have all been deep thinking, genuinely compassionate, and quiet in their faith. They led by example and felt no need to "sell" their beliefs.

Being the their presence was very powerful. Being in a fundie's presence makes my skin crawl.
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bmbmd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-05-04 10:18 AM
Response to Original message
4. I can hardly wait to see it-
Edited on Thu Feb-05-04 10:21 AM by bmbmd
I like to form my own opinions. I am certainly no Bible scholar, but I am well-read from the scriptures. I think it may be a valuable and entertaining, as well as instructional, instrument. Jesus' approach to evangelism was "I stand at the door and knock". His last command to his disciples was "Go and make disciples of all nations". If this movie can bring home the positive message of the Gospel to even one, it is a worthwhile project.
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robcon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-05-04 10:24 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. I'm definitely going to the movie, too.
It'll be a lot better than the romanticized versions like Ben Hur or King of Kings.

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Khephra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-05-04 10:27 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. Oh, I will too
But I'm amazed at these reactions from the Christian Right in comparison to how they acted towards "The Last Temptation". I guess as long as the vision of Christ comes from a fundie, it's OK.
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DemBones DemBones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-05-04 02:31 PM
Response to Reply #6
11. It has to do with a film's fidelity to the Bible.

I never saw "Last Temptation" so I zipped over to amazon to see if I remembered correctly why it was controversial.

Here's a chunk of their editorial review:

"Editorial Reviews
Amazon.com essential video
It isn't difficult to imagine why this 1988 retelling of the Crucifixion story was picketed vociferously upon release--this Jesus bears little resemblance to the classical Christ, who was not, upon careful review of the Gospels, ever reported to have had sex with Barbara Hershey. Heavily informed by Gnostic reinterpretations of the Passion, The Last Temptation of Christ (based rather strictly on Nikos Kazantzakis's novel of the same name) is surely worth seeing for the controversy and blasphemous content alone, but it's difficult to find in skittish chain video stores. But the "last temptation" of the title is nothing overtly naughty--rather, it's the seduction of the commonplace; the desire to forgo following a "calling" in exchange for domestic security. Willem Dafoe interprets Jesus as spacy, indecisive, and none too charismatic (though maybe that's just Dafoe himself),"


Yes, most Christians are turned off to a movie portraying Jesus having sex with anyone, not to mention one which is "Heavily informed by Gnostic reinterpretations of the Passion." No doubt Scorsese made a brilliant film but not an accurate depiction of the life of Jesus. It was based on a novel, after all. As the Amazon review ended:

"Ultimately, Last Temptation is not much more historically illuminating than Monty Python's Life of Brian,"

Gibson has tried to make his film version of Christ's Passion Biblically and historically accurate and Christians will appreciate that, assuming that he's done a good job. At least it will be out soon and everyone can see it and judge for themselves.

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Hell Hath No Fury Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-05-04 02:54 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. No doubt Scorsese made a brilliant film..."
but not an accurate depiction of the life of Jesus."

I considered "Last Temptation" to be no more, no less accurate than the Bible in general.

Considering how truly "accurate" the Bible is. :) Even most theologians admit that the book should be viewed as a roadmap for leading one's life, and should not be literally interpreted.

And for being "turned off" by seeing Jesus having sex, on the contrary. I was deeply moved by seeing a human Christ struggling deeply with/against his destiny, and what better "last temptation" than the yearning to be freed from his terrible responsibility and lead the ordinary life.
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Mari333 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-05-04 11:28 AM
Response to Reply #4
9. and then theres the sticky question of anti semitism
evangelicals will whine and moan about how they love the Chosen people...as long as they convert
any jewish person who trusts one of these whack jobs is going to be sorry
imo
as for what jesus supposedly said, there is no evidence he ever said that or anything else. He didnt write the bible.
as for the Baptists getting all excited for this to be used as a tool..the baptists sell jesus like a product..
if he existed, I wouldnt consider him a product..I would consider him a metaphor for something that promotes the idea of a philosophy that encourages compassion, love, and a gentle spirit..
perhaps THAT is what one does, to take the message to others..
BE compassionate, BE empathatic, BE a gentle soul.
Knock on the doors of another's HEART with your OWN behaviour, not come up and knock on my HOUSE door and sell Jesus like he is a can of corn.
People interpret the biblical scriptures as they please.
Walk it, dont talk it. Live it, dont shove it into peoples faces IMHO
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Hell Hath No Fury Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-05-04 10:57 AM
Response to Original message
7. Oh goodie...
just what we need, more crazy fundies.

Jesus, save me from your followers...
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Journeyman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-05-04 12:36 PM
Response to Reply #7
10. "If Jesus saves well then he'd better save himself. . .
from the gory glory seekers who use his name in death.

Whoooo oh Jesus save me!"

--Jethro Tull
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sendero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-05-04 02:58 PM
Response to Reply #10
13. Exactly....
... the movie is nothing more than 'historical' fiction. How anybody can get all excited like Jesus was the head writer is beyond me.
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-05-04 03:05 PM
Response to Original message
14. Here's review I got from Fundie relative last night! Paul Harvey.......
Edited on Thu Feb-05-04 03:07 PM by KoKo01
Apparently it's being passed along amongst the fundie community as a MUST READ AND SEE! It came in my e-mail in bright blue 1/4 inch high type......quite a shocker. And, this is because I sent this person a link to the "Talking Chimp Action Figure" because he said he didn't like Bush. He likes Bush well enough to send me this disgusting Paul Harvey review, though.

The movie may be fine, but the way it's being pushed just makes it seem obnoxious.

This review should be okay for copywrite because it apparently has Harvey's permission to send it across the planet.


In case you haven't seen this particular commentary...



The majority of the media are complaining about this movie.

Now Paul Harvey tells "The rest of the story" and David Limbaugh praises Gibson.

Most people would wait and see a movie before giving the reviews that have been issued by the reporters trying to tell all of us what to believe.

Paul Harvey's words:

I really did not know what to expect. I was thrilled to have been invited to a private viewing of Mel Gibson's film "The Passion," but I had also read all the cautious articles and spin. I grew up in a Jewish town and owe much of my own faith journey to the influence. I have a life long, deeply held aversion to anything that might even indirectly encourage any form of anti-Semitic thought, language or actions.

I arrived at the private viewing for "The Passion", held in Washington DC and greeted some familiar faces. The environment was typically Washingtonian, with people greeting you with a smile but seeming to look beyond you, having an agenda beyond the words. The film was very briefly introduced, without fanfare, and then the room darkened. From the gripping opening scene in the Garden of Gethsemane, to the very human and tender portrayal of the earthly ministry of Jesus, through the betrayal, the arrest, the scourging, the way of the cross, the encounter with the thieves, the surrender on the Cross, until the final scene in the empty tomb, this was not simply a movie; it was an encounter, unlike anything I have ever experienced.

In addition to being a masterpiece of film-making and an artistic triumph, "The Passion" evoked more deep reflection, sorrow and emotional reaction within me than anything since my wedding, my ordination or the birth of my children. Frankly, I will never be the same. When the film concluded, this "invitation only" gathering of "movers and shakers" in Washington, DC were shaking indeed, but this time from sobbing. I am not sure there was a dry eye in the place. The crowd that had been glad-handing before the film was now eerily silent. No one could speak because words were woefully inadequate. We had experienced a kind of art that is a rarity in life, the kind that makes heaven touch earth.

One scene in the film has now been forever etched in my mind. A brutalized, wounded Jesus was soon to fall again under the weight of the cross. His mother had made her way along the Via Della Rosa. As she ran to him, she flashed back to a memory of Jesus as a child, falling in the dirt road outside of their home. Just as she reached to protect him from the fall, she was now reaching to touch his wounded adult face. Jesus looked at her with intensely probing and passionately loving eyes (and at all of us through the screen) and said "Behold I make all things new." These are words taken from the last Book of the New Testament, the Book of Revelation. Suddenly, the purpose of the pain was so clear and the wounds, that earlier in the film had been so difficult to see in His face, His back, indeed all over His body, became intensely beautiful. They had been borne voluntarily for love.

At the end of the film, after we had all had a chance to recover, a question and answer period ensued. The unanimous praise for the film, from a rather diverse crowd, was as astounding as the compliments were effusive. The questions included the one question that seems to follow this film, even though it has not yet even been released. "Why is this film considered by some to be "anti-Semitic?" Frankly, having now experienced (you do not "view" this film) "the Passion" it is a question that is impossible to answer. A law professor whom I admire sat in front of me. He raised his hand and responded "After watching this film, I do not understand how anyone can insinuate that it even remotely presents that the Jews killed Jesus. It doesn't." He continued "It made me realize that my sins killed Jesus" I agree. There is not a scintilla of anti-Semitism to be f found anywhere in this powerful film. If there were, I would be among the first to decry it. It faithfully tells the Gospel story in a dramatically beautiful, sensitive and profoundly engaging way.

Those who are alleging otherwise have either not seen the film or have another agenda behind their protestations. This is not a "Christian" film, in the sense that it will appeal only to those who identify themselves as followers of Jesus Christ. It is a deeply human, beautiful story that will deeply touch all men and women. It is a profound work of art. Yes, its producer is a Catholic Christian and thankfully has remained faithful to the Gospel text; if that is no longer acceptable behavior than we are all in trouble. History demands that we remain faithful to the story and Christians have a right to tell it. After all, we believe that it is the greatest story ever told and that its message is for all men and women. The greatest right is the right to hear the truth.

We would all be well advised to remember that the Gospel narratives to which "The Passion" is so faithful were written by Jewish men who followed a Jewish Rabbi whose life and teaching have forever changed the history of the world. The problem is not the message but those who have distorted it and used it for hate rather than love. The solution is not to censor the message, but rather to promote the kind of gift of love that is Mel Gibson's filmmaking masterpiece, "The Passion."

It should be seen by as many people as possible. I intend to do everything I can to make sure that is the case. I am passionate about "The Passion." You will be as well. Don't miss it! This is a commentary by DAVID LIMBAUGH about Mel Gibson's very controversial movie regarding Christ's crucifixion. It, too, is well worth reading.

MEL GIBSON'S passion for "THE PASSION"

How ironic that when a movie producer takes artistic license with historical events, he is lionized as artistic, creative and brilliant, but when another takes special care to be true to the real-life story, he is vilified. Actor-producer Mel Gibson is discovering these truths the hard way as he is having difficulty finding a United States studio or distributor for his upcoming film, "The Passion," which depicts the last 12 hours of the life of Jesus Christ.

Gibson co-wrote the script and financed, directed and produced the movie. For the script, he and his co-author relied on the New Testament Gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John, as well as the diaries of St. Anne Catherine Emmerich (1774-1824) and Mary of Agreda's "The City of God."

Gibson doesn't want this to be like other sterilized religious epics. "I'm trying to access the story on a very personal level and trying to be very real about it." So committed to realistically portraying what many would consider the most important half-day in the history of the universe, Gibson even shot the film in the Aramaic language of the period. In response to objections that viewers will not be able to understand that language, Gibson said, "Hopefully, I'll be able to transcend the language barriers with my visual storytelling; if I fail, I fail, but at least it'll be a monumental failure."

To further insure the accuracy of the work, Gibson has enlisted the counsel of pastors and theologians, and has received rave reviews. Don Hodel, president of Focus on the Family, said, "I was very impressed. The movie is historically and theologically accurate." Ted Haggard, pastor of New Life Church in Colorado Springs, Colo., and president of the National Evangelical Association, glowed: "It conveys, more accurately than any other film, who Jesus was."

During the filming, Gibson, a devout Catholic, attended Mass every morning because "we had to be squeaky clean just working on this." From Gibson's perspective, this movie is not about Mel Gibson. It's bigger than he is. "I'm not a preacher, and I'm not a pastor," he said. "But I really feel my career was leading me to make this. The Holy Ghost was working through me on this film, and I was just directing traffic. I hope the film has the power to evangelize."

Even before the release of the movie, scheduled for March 2004, Gibson is getting his wish. "Everyone who worked on this movie was changed. There were agnostics and Muslims on set converting to Christianity... people being healed of diseases." Gibson wants people to understand through the movie, if they don't already, the incalculable influence Christ has had on the world. And he grasps that Christ is controversial precisely because of WHO HE IS - GOD incarnate. "And that's the point of my film really, to show all that turmoil around him politically and with religious leaders and the people, all because He is Who He is."

Gibson is beginning to experience first hand just how controversial Christ is. Critics have not only speciously challenged the movie's authenticity, but have charged that it is disparaging to Jews, which Gibson vehemently denies. "This is not a Christian vs. Jewish thing. ' came into the world, and it knew him not.' Looking at Christ's crucifixion, I look first at my own culpability in that." Jesuit Father William J. Fulco, who translated the script into Aramaic and Latin, said he saw no hint of anti-Semitism in the movie. Fulco added, "I would be aghast at any suggestion that Mel Gibson is anti-Semitic." Nevertheless, certain groups and some in the mainstream press have been very critical of Gibson's "Passion."

The New York Post's Andrea Peyser chided him: "There is still time, Mel, to tell the truth." Boston Globe columnist James Carroll denounced Gibson's literal reading of the biblical accounts. "Even a faithful repetition of the Gospel stories of the death of Jesus can do damage exactly because those sacred texts themselves carry the virus of Jew hatred," wrote Carroll. A group of Jewish and Christian academics has issued an 18-page report slamming all aspects of the film, including its undue emphasis on Christ's passion rather than "a broader vision." The report disapproves of the movie's treatment of Christ's passion as historical fact.

The moral is that if you want the popular culture to laud your work on Christ, make sure it either depicts Him as a homosexual or as an everyday sinner with no particular redeeming value (literally). In our anti-Christian culture, the blasphemous "The Last Temptation of Christ" is celebrated and "The Passion" is condemned. But if this movie continues to affect people the way it is now, no amount of cultural opposition will suppress its force and its positive impact on lives everywhere. Mel Gibson is a model of faith and courage.

Please copy this and send it on to all your friends to let them know about this film so that we'll all go see it when it comes out.


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fishwax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-05-04 08:54 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. not really written by Paul Harvey
I know you weren't claiming it was, and that that's the way that the article came to you, but (just for the record) the review attributed to Paul Harvey wasn't really written by him (link to snopes article below). No surprise there, really ... I mean, they pretended that the Pope endorsed the movie, so pretending that Paul Harvey endorsed it is pretty small potatoes.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/soapbox/passion.asp
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Terwilliger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-05-04 03:07 PM
Response to Original message
15. They should see "Dogma" instead
This movie will probably just make me more convinced that the Christians are loopy.
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Hell Hath No Fury Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-05-04 10:10 PM
Response to Reply #15
17. Now THAT...
was a great Christian movie!

I loved it. :)
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