Soldier gets 15 months in prison for desertion

[951-Riverside]

Source: The Associated Press

A soldier who fled to Canada rather than fight in Iraq has been sentenced to 15 months in prison after pleading guilty in Fort Carson, Colo., to a reduced charge of desertion.

Pvt. Robin Long told a military judge at his sentencing Friday that he left the country over moral objections to what he called an illegal war.

Prosecutors say the 25-year-old from Boise, Idaho, abandoned his duty and his country.

Long was stationed at Fort Carson when he fled to Canada in 2005. Canadian authorities denied his request for refuge and deported him last month.

Read more: http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/ap/nation/5960826.html

[David__77]

1. He should be praised and supported.

The man is a hero.

[cyndensco]

5. He is a hero in my book.

I would encourage my sons to do the same if the draft was reinstated.

[DissedByBush]

6. He is a deserter

When you voluntarily sign up you swear an oath and sign on the line, not doing your duty, even if you disagree with it, is dishonorable. To me this "man" is sub-human because he let his buddies go in harm's way while he was sitting safe in Canada even though he volunteered for the Army.

I didn't agree with Daddy Bush's first gulf war, but I sure as hell went because that's part of the package I signed up for when I enlisted. It is not a soldier's job to judge the politics of a conflict, it is a soldier's job to fight in it. I shouldn't have enlisted if I didn't want to take that chance. Nobody should.

Talk to me again about praising and supporting such creatures when we have a draft. Then my feelings towards deserters in questionable conflicts will be much different.

[David__77]

8. The Nuremberg precedent is clear.

That is, "following orders" is not a legal or moral justification for being accessory to war crimes. A soldier must not be merely a cog; disciplined and well-ordered, yes. But not when this means being an accessory to war crimes.

[DissedByBush]

21. There is no war crime by serving

The Nuremberg precedent covers actions by individuals that are outside the normal rules of war. That wouldn't apply to him unless, for example, his sergeant told him to kill a bunch of unarmed villagers and he complied. There is no legal threat to a soldier who serves in Iraq and conducts himself within the rules of war. We have seen what happens to soldiers who don't, as in the several Abu Ghraib soldiers who were, or are still, in prison. BTW, the Army prison at Leavenworth is a lot harder than the federal penitentiary at Leavenworth.

[bean fidhleir]

69. You're wrong, you know.

The laws articulated at Nürnberg made invading another country a "crime against peace", the Number One Crime in the world. *Everyone* involved in such a crime is an accessory. Thus, *everyone* has the duty to refuse to participate.

Subsequent UN codification provided a shield of sorts to low-level soldiers who help commit the crime out of fear for themselves and their families, but it does not shield the higher-ups, nor does it allow the punishment of those who refuse to be accessories.

[The Croquist]

71. So we sent the entire German army to prison

after WWII? How about the Italian and Japanese armies? How long were the sentences?

[bean fidhleir]

88. No, we let most of them off. But that doesn't mean they were *required* to be let off.

In equity, the Nazi leadership shouldn't have been hanged either, since the concept of "crime against peace" was only invented after the fact. Aggressive war was fine when they started it, we criminalized it after we won. We've also ignored another crime against peace that was committed only 2 years after the hangings. Very elastic ethics, ours.

The law, however, is clear: anyone who helps commit a crime is an accomplice or accessory. They might be able to plead duress and escape punishment, but there's no walk-away-free card.

And a person who refuses to be an accomplice/accessory, however belatedly, cannot legitimately be punished...though of course the chief criminals while still in power might punish the person, as the Nazis did to, e.g., the Weiße Rose.

[The Croquist]

120. So it wasn't the fact that the average German soldier was a good person?

It was just that we were being generous?

You are correct that there was no law against aggressive war when they first invaded their neighbors but we did try the surviving leaders and selected individuals anyway.

I guess that makes the allies criminals in your eyes.

PS: Why didn't we prosecute Stalin?

[bean fidhleir]

126. I'm sure that good or bad didn't come into it - the Allies tried to hang Dönitz, for example

because of the order he gave after the Laconia incident when an *American* -who was never even repremanded let alone prosecuted- committed a war crime by ordering an attack on 3 Axis submarines that were engaged in saving life.

Allies as criminals? Yes. Chomsky has pointed out that the official definition of a war crime at Nürnberg was (paraphrased) "anything nasty that the allies didn't do too".

Why was Uncle Joe not prosecuted? Politics of course. The same reason why the perps in the crimes against peace two years after the Nürnberg hangings were never so much as scolded.

[The Croquist]

152. Thanks for the history lesson

I hadn't heard of the Laconia incident before but I don't think it equates to a war crime. The Submarine was not designated as a hospital ship prior to the action and the US had every right to sink a warship that might kill again.

U-156 sank 20 ships for a total of 97,205 tons.
U-506 sank 15 ships for a total of 76,714 tons.
U-507 sank 19 ships for a total of 77,143 tons.

I know that there were atrocities committed by the allies as well. The whole strategic bombing campaign was designed to terrorize civilians and General Omar Bradley let it be known in Normandy that he didn't mind if German snipers were shot if they did tried to surrender.

[bean fidhleir]

156. "I don't think it equates to a war crime"

Many -perhaps most- people would disagree with you. Attacking a fighter honestly engaged in a humanitarian act should *always* be a war crime.

But the US always wants it both ways. It's not a war crime to attack a sub on a mercy mission, but it's a war crime to order sub commanders not to undertake such mercy missions. Feh!



Would you have ordered the machine guns to open fire on the German soldiers coming up out of the trenches during the informal "Christmas truce" in 1914?

[DissedByBush]

132. Read your history

The London Charter was the basis for the trials. It defined war crimes, crimes against humanity and crimes against peace. The Nuremberg Trials were not set up to prosecute the little guys, only the big ones. We had other trials for lower officers and soldiers, like Dachau.

And there we did try others and executed many of them for war crimes, especially for actions in the concentration camps. The crimes were specific instances of violation of the laws of war, not for overall serving the Third Reich. But soldiers like Otto Skorzeny were acquitted because their actions did not violate the laws of war (we kept him two years before trial and didn't release him after acquittal, sounds like something Bush would do).

Soldiers are generally protected as long as their individual actions follow the laws of war. This is a long-time precedent that follows what I have been saying: Soldiers do not get a say in the politics of the action, whether or not the overall war is wrong or right, thus they cannot be held responsible. All they can do is refuse orders for specific individual actions that violate the laws of war, and be held responsible for not refusing.

Officers, especially higher officers, are more likely to be prosecuted for war crimes, as they must have either given the orders to commit the crimes or allowed them to happen under their commands.

Of course Nuremberg was not exactly our shining moment either. We committed many crimes against humanity in the subsequent trials, which were mostly for Nazi civilians. If you think waterboarding is bad, you should see what we were doing and allowing to be done there.

[Submariner]

11. Bush was a deserter too

He sand bagged his ANG unit and skipped town. Dumped his wingman and never showed up again. Sub human describes W to a "T".

[DissedByBush]

20. You don't see me talking any good about him either n/t

[Raster]

22. Sorry. It is dishonerable in your corner of the world. And your thinking of

"...he let his buddies go in harms way while he was sitting safe in Canada..." is noble, but outdated. The war machine exists because of outmoded codes of ethics that should have been jettisoned years ago. Perhaps they were appropriate when military action was in response to a threat to the country. This military action is based in personal vanity and greed and has been used to fatten the pocketbooks of the rich. And make no mistake, the damage, bloodshed and carnage CAUSED BY THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA TO AN INNOCENT COUNTRY AND ITS INNOCENT CITIZENS is as diabolical as any from history. It is high time the American concept of military and military service be called exactly what it is: a racket.

Praising and supporting such creatures? Shit, I vote to give him a medal. And please, do not think I am disparaging the women and men of the Ameican military. I'm not. They are but pawns in an insidious worldgame of power and greed. If anyone should be slapped into tomorrow, it should be the American public for allowing our military to be treated in such a fashion and our good name to be sullied by despicable war criminals.

[DissedByBush]

44. Choices

"The war machine exists because of outmoded codes of ethics"

If you don't believe in "outmoded ethics" (i.e., honoring your sworn commitments, what a concept), then don't enlist. It's as simple as that.

[Raster]

47. With all due respect, no, it is not.

There are other factors in play.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

56. Who forced him to volunteer?

[proud2BlibKansan]

77. The crappy economy

or maybe a lying recruiter.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

113. Yeah that's a lot of force.

[kas125]

138. His recruiter PROMISED him a non-combat job. That

did not happen, but it IS what what promised to him.

[JonLP24]

141. What job did he pick?

There are many jobs that pretty much keeps you away from combat. I don't know the MOS classification but simply a "nurse" usually keeps you at hospitals or various TMC's in theaters? I've loved your arguments so far but without knowing what job he picked I can't defend this one just yet. All I want to know is exactly what job he picked and what job he was actually slotted for.

When I enlisted I choose to be a motor transport operator, I didn't want to be in a position of combat, just wanted to drive trucks which is exactly what I did but being a truck operator does expose you to combat, you could be assigned to run gun trucks so therefore you have to be up in the turret(however it is spelled) and engage enemies and I recall a situation when 2 of our trucks got hit by IEDs and our convoy was stationary so me being in the back I would have to engage anyone shooting at us(thankfully I didn't have to) as I was scared to death and trust me I understand there is really no true non-combat job because I recall a 'cook' in our unit was tasked for convoys and even recieved a 'combat action badge' because the engine of his truck was blasted by an EFP.

[kas125]

148. I don't really know what is MOS was/is. Last night I posted

his explanation for why he joined and why he chose the course of action that he did. About what job he was supposed to do, I don't really know any more than what I posted yesterday, which was that he was promised a non-combat job in the US.

[proud2BlibKansan]

154. Casey Sheehan wanted to be a mechanic

So that's what he picked. But he was sent into combat and not assigned to work as a mechanic. And we all know how that worked out for him.

My friend's son wanted to be a cook. He is being deployed next month. No he isn't cooking.

You most certainly do not get to pick what you do. Recruiters tell kids this but it is not true.

[JonLP24]

143. Supply is a big one

Pretty much if someone is 'supply' they can be tasked to any unit because pretty much every unit needs 'supply' people and I recall many if not all of the supply personnel in our unit ran convoys and I've known supply people that were in infantry units and did the same jobs they did.

So the idea of 'supply' is non-combat but can actually have you in combat situations. Plus not everyone does their job, it is based on the needs of the military. I recall when I broke my hand I was no longer able to drive trucks(not that I couldn't, but I couldn't fire a M-16) so I got slotted for a job to supervise a dining facility in Kuwait so simply I went from a 'truck-driver' to a 'cook'

[DissedByBush]

62. Did they reinstate the draft?

I'm really out of touch these days.

[barbtries]

72. great response

wish i'd written it.

my fantasy is that ALL the soldiers refuse. then they couldn't have their fucking war.

[Marie2]

29. It's all volunteer

With an all volunteer military this is hard to sympathize with.

If our military can leave whenever they don't like an action, I don't think we have much of a defense.

Probably many didn't like Clinton's action in Bosnia. But they went.

Those who don't want to go into war no matter who the CIC is or only if they personally agree with what's going on should not join up, IMO.

If he was drafted, I'd feel differently.

[DissedByBush]

45. Funny you mention Bosnia

I knew a lot of people who went there, people who for the most part despised Clinton and despised serving under the UN in that conflict (stuck in the middle of a civil war, sound familiar?).

But guess what, they went anyway because that was their sworn duty.

[proud2BlibKansan]

79. our military can leave whenever they don't like an action??

Great! Let's bring them all home then!! :crazy:

[roody]

43. His buddies should have joined him.

[DissedByBush]

50. You really want to fill up the jails, huh?

His buddies joining him would simply mean others get sent in harm's way in their stead. Luckily, most people who sign up have some sense of honor. The rest of the trash can spend some time in Leavenworth and have fun finding a job with a federal felony conviction on their records. Sucks to be them, but it's their own fault.

This is the military, there is no room for civil disobedience. I wonder what would have happened if the soldiers had said "Hell no, I don't believe in this" at D-Day and the command said "No punishment, let's treat them like heroes." Of course then it was a draft, so there might be some sympathy from me, but the result is the same.

Sprechen Sie Deutsch, Beschützer der Feiglinge? Sie sollten die Soldaten danken, dass Sie Englisch sprechen können.

[wuushew]

52. The service in American colonial militias was quite flexible

as well as numerous examples from antiquity.

Impediments to America's war fighting ability would be very much welcome given our violent history.



Are you saying that most soldiers frighting in WWII didn't want to be there or contribute to the end result? Unity given a just cause is not difficult.

[DissedByBush]

61. The colonial army

It was volunteer, as now. Soldiers served their volunteered terms, as they do now. Remember Washington offering a bonus to the troops nearing the end of their enlistment to stay on after the Battle of Trenton? FYI, that's the "Crossing the Delaware" battle, and it helped turn the tide of the war.

You must really hate this country's military to impede the war fighting ability that has kept us and our allies free. Would you like to be British under a real monarchy, imperial Japanese, Nazi German, communist Russian? Instead of directing your ire at our military, may I suggest directing your ire at the politicians like the Bushes who send them into battle needlessly, and those who enable them like Kerry, Clinton, Daschle and Feinstein OF OUR OWN PARTY!

But no, you'd eviscerate our military. Then when there's a need to go to war they'll be as ill-prepared as they were in Korea, poorly trained, completely demoralized, confused. That not only resulted in many deaths of our troops, but the killing of innocents.

"Unity given a just cause is not difficult. "

What is a just cause is not for the soldier to decide and act on after enlistment. Before, yes. After the enlistment term, yes as happened to me. But not during. I joined during the Cold War, and I was willing to protect my country against a Soviet invasion. Instead I got sent off to Daddy's war for oil (it's Daddy that I was "dissed by"), but I didn't run from my commitment, my promise, my oath. Instead, I got out when it was my time. The Army lost a capable soldier, but that's what they get for sending us around the world on money-making missions for the Bush empire. The enlistment rate would drop through the floor if more people wised-up.

[The Croquist]

89. Thanks for your service and your posts.

You are on an unpopular side of this issue and you defended position calmly and with dignity.

It sounds like you chose not to re-enlist when you had the option. May I ask how much time you had in?

[DissedByBush]

104. Seven years

First re-enlistment just before the Gulf War broke out (great timing, huh?), no more after that.

[The Croquist]

121. Good for you.

Hopefully you've done well since.

[DissedByBush]

125. Trying

His son isn't exactly trying to create an environment for success, the fruit does not fall far, but I'm getting along fine. Thanks.

[bean fidhleir]

101. "Sie sollten die Soldaten danken, dass Sie Englisch sprechen können."

Das ist ja Dreck, Du.

[Karenina]

103. Eben.

[DissedByBush]

106. Aber die Wahrheit

[Karenina]

108. Nur mehr Duennschiss fuer Dummkoepfen.

[bean fidhleir]

115. Wahrheit? In Deinem Träum, vielleicht. Solche Gemeinplätze sind bloß

das "Fahne Hoch" der Militärindustrie: Quatsch.

[Karenina]

116. Genau.

Somewhere around 30% of Americans sport Deutsch ancestry. There are enclaves in several states where Deutsch IS STILL SPOKEN (albeit dialects that no modern speaker can decipher). That mindless jingoistic crap makes me spit tacks. Perhaps the knuckledragger could explain to us the downside of being multi-lingual.

[DissedByBush]

118. To bring this back to English so all can understand

It's still true. Without a strong military, this would still be a British colony, or occupied Nazi Germany or a satellite state of the Soviet Union. But then maybe you're a monarchist, fascist or communist and would have preferred that.

The ONLY thing that stopped any of them was military power.

Remember, Neville Chamberlain tried the diplomacy-only approach with Hitler. How did that work out?

[Karenina]

123. When was the last time you came up from mama's basement

and washed your hands? They must be seriously funky and crusty by now.

[The Croquist]

153. What an obnoxious statement.

I bet your brother is twice as smart as you. You know, the half-wit.

[Karenina]

155. Indeed it was! Most unlady-like, too. Something about

macho military dick-waving tends to trigger the occasional indelicate outburst.
But somehow I think DbB can take care of himself. He's been well-trained with firearms. ;-) :hide: :hi:

[The Croquist]

157. Actually I think he was very calm and collected

I didn't see any macho military dick-waving in what he said.
I thought he defended his position well.

[Karenina]

162. He gets MAJOR points for disregarding my snark.

:patriot: (and I mean that sincerely.)

The points he "defended" were the ones he was trained to believe from childhood. Each and every one of them reflects the ueber-mensch-demoniization-of-the-"other" mentality one MUST internalize to function well in that system. When I see absurdities i.e. "Were it not for the military, you'd all be speaking German" it makes me want to shake the nonsense out of that person's head, as such a statement is part of the ongoing deprecation of a nation that HAS, in fact, confronted its atrocious history AND is now an ally. Would that the U.S. were able to do the same.

The commie-pinko-fascist-monarchist detritus is retro in the extreme. If you are able to cite ONE CASE in the last 50 years where the U.S. military has "defended democracy" I'm open to hearing about it. It has been regularly and repeatedly used to protect the interests of predatory capitalists and further enrich the bloated defense industry to the point that those interests have seized control of the American government and the minds of American citizens. It is truly a tragic state of affairs.

[bean fidhleir]

124. No, the key factor was logistics. England, Germany, and Russia

are all across the Atlantic, making supply lines for an American war horrible.

England is a small country (big empire, but small country) short on local natural resources and was still recovering from the Seven Years War. It was too hard for them to muster enough troops. They used the press-gang method, as perhaps you know, and property-owners could not be pressed. That left only the non-disabled poor, of whom there remained too few. Which is why they sent so few soldiers, and many of them mercenaries from Hesse. Yet, had they not also sent a commander who was even worse than Washington, they might well have won.

Germany is about 1/27 the size of the US and about 1/65 the size of the USSR. Despite what the lunatic-in-charge in Berlin thought, the outcome was a foregone conclusion, and Stalingrad a foreshadowing. Germany simply didn't have the resources to fight a long war any more than Japan did. Hitler's only hope was the Blitzkrieg, and it wasn't good enough. German technologies were first-rate, but Germany never had the capacity to make proper use of them.

The USSR was a 17th-century feudal country scrambling like hell to get into the 20th century. The systems they had to produce goods and move them around were unpolished at best. Had anyone in the USSR ever been stupid enough to start a war, it would have been over before soldiers ever caught sight of one another (except maybe in Germany). The US had complete technical superiority where it counted.

[DissedByBush]

133. And what stopped them?

British: A superior army.

Germans/Japanese: A superior Army and Navy

Soviets: A superior defense overall

In all three cases we would have lost had we not had an effective military. As it was the British came close to kicking our butts in the Revolution and in 1812. The Germans would have easily taken all of Europe if we had not gotten involved (especially if Hitler hadn't broken the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact, giving him a second front). The Soviets were only held back from taking over Europe by our Army there (they had plans for a blitzkrieg the Germans would have been proud of) and our nuclear deterrent.

Of course in the case of the Soviets and Germany our superior defense was allowed by a superior economy, but that's not the point: a superior economy alone would have stopped none of these, only a superior military.

[Karenina]

134. And exactly what is this superior military accomplishing

in the here and now?

[DissedByBush]

135. Not much positive with the leadership we've had recently

But then that's the fault of the people in charge, and it's our job to put the right people in charge.

[Karenina]

142. Meanwhile, those who realize they've been deceived

and refuse to participate in the scam are sub-human in your estimation?

[DissedByBush]

145. There can be no deception in the larger scheme

You sign up, period. You don't sign up with a choice of what actions to participate in. If you don't want a chance to be part of such scams then don't sign up.

[wtmusic]

136. The only thing that enabled fascism was also military power. nt

[proud2BlibKansan]

76. A good friend of mine went to prison rather than serve in the first Gulf War

She is not a "creature" and has more courage than anyone else I know.

I take it you don't know what role the troops played in helping to end the Vietnam War.

I have far more respect for soldiers who speak out and refuse to serve than for those who go along to get along and kill people in the process.

[wtmusic]

91. I will get no answer to my question

but I have to ask anyway.

If your commanding officer orders you to kill an innocent child in cold blood (it happened at Haditha) would you do it?

You swore an oath and signed on the line. :shrug:

[EFerrari]

107. It sure as hell is a soldier's job to judge the politice if he is a citizen.

And I take deep offense at you referring to the brave people who refuse to engage in mindless murder as "those creatures". They all are more thoughtful than you seem to be.

[superconnected]

150. hahahaha, that will get you killed.

[billyoc]

2. That's not bad, he'd have been in Iraq longer than that.

[michreject]

68. After serving his sentence

comes a dishonorable discharge and all the restrictions that come with it. It will affect the reat of his life.

[billyoc]

73. No, it won't affect him at all. People stopped asking about military service in the '70s.

[michreject]

87. Boy are you delusional

It will affect most every aspect of his life, forever.

[billyoc]

90. I have never seen my DD-214. I got out of the Navy in '82.

Nobody is ever going to ask him if he was in the Army or not.

Ever.

[michreject]

92. I got out in 72

You can't even buy a gun with a DD. The question is asked on the 4473. It's a felony to lie. Same with some loans. In some cases you can omit the details but if you are asked, you must tell.

Most employers will ask and check.

[Lyric]

159. I'd hire him.

You'd be surprised how many employers are liberals, and against this fucking war. If I knew that this was the reason for his DD, I'd hire him OVER someone else who is equally qualified. People who stand up for their principles, even when it costs them, are valuable.

[michreject]

160. You do know that businesses get a tax credit

for hiring vets? A DD person doesn't qualify.

[Lyric]

161. Neither does most of the rest of the nation.

Plenty of businesses don't have veterans working for them--not because they refuse to hire them, but because none apply, or none are qualified. What's your point? :shrug:

[go west young man]

93. Ditto on that.

I got out of the Marines in 88' with an OTH discharge. It has never effected me in getting a job of any sort. The only thing I was told was that I could never work for the government. I'm not sure if that's true as I have never tried to. Nor would I want to.

[Thothmes]

111. A conviction by Courts Martial is a Felony Conviction

Any time anyone asks if he has been convicted of a felony, his answer, if truthful is yes. How will that affect him.

[JonLP24]

129. Yes, that will certainly haunt him

I feel sorry for him and I wish deep down in my heart he would've handled it another way.

[Hydra]

3. Keep this in mind when you think these people have a choice

Their choices are:

Obey illegal orders

or

Get to know a jail cell

[emilyg]

4. Or not join the army.

[depakid]

7. That is the bottom line here

Might be a bit different if there were a draft.

[backwoodsbob]

10. sorry but you can't VOLUNTEER to join...

get the bennies...and then decide if you want to fight...you know...what you volunteered for.It doesn't work that way.

If it was a draft I would agree with him but not when you volunteer

[kas125]

12. Many of them joined BEFORE the illegal war.

[AZ Criminal JD]

15. Nope, not true.

Every member of the military either joined or re-enlisted AFTER the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan started.

[kas125]

19. I was talking about IVAW members in general there, not just

Robin. I know lots of them who joined before the war started. As for Robin, yes, he did enlist after the war and below is his reason for resisting -

Robin recently talked to Courage to Resist about why he enlisted. “When the U.S. first attacked Iraq, I was told by my president that it was because of direct ties to Al-Qaida and weapons of mass destruction.” Robin explained that while he was uneasy about his personal role in fighting, the Iraq War seemed justified. So when his recruiter promised him a non-combat position within the U.S., he took it. Regarding his decision to resist later, Robin explained, “I made the best decision. Regardless of what hardships I go through, I could have put Iraqi families through more hardships. I have no regrets.” When asked by the Boise Weekly, in May of 2006, if he was prepared to go to jail, Robin replied, “Yeah if it came down to that, I'd be willing to go to prison because I know I did the right thing and I can sleep at night and my conscience is still good.”

[AZ Criminal JD]

23. If they joined before the war and are still in the military

then they would have had re-enlisted while the war was going on. So my point stands for all members of the military.

[kas125]

25. And the ones who are still in the military aren't the ones

we're talking about. We're talking about resisters, many of whom are still in Canada and have been for several years. Many of them joined or re-enlisted after 9/11, but before the war began. They haven't returned home just because their ETS date has passed and they still face jail time if they're sent home.

[proud2BlibKansan]

81. Bull. Shit.

[michreject]

94. He's right

Every member that is currently in the military as of this moment has either enlisted or re enlisted after the war was started.

[proud2BlibKansan]

95. So the soldiers I know who have been in for more than 7 years are lying?

[michreject]

97. No

But they re enlisted after the war started. Re enlistment terms are for 6 years. If they went in the military in 91, they re enlisted in 08. You can't serve for 7 years without re enlisting.

[proud2BlibKansan]

99. And they were bribed

One of them got $30,000.

Tell me you would turn down $30,000.

[michreject]

102. What does that have to do with enlisting or re uping aftet the war

started? That was the claim. Not money.

[INDIA]

127. pwned. n/t

[slackmaster]

17. End Of Thread

:hi:

[bluesmail]

9. In my world he'd be given a medal or three.

[kas125]

13. Mine, too. I simply cannot believe the ignorant and intolerant

comments in this thread. Those people calling this brave young man names are simply beyond despicable. He stood up for what is moral and right and he should be praised from the rooftops, not derided by fools on the internet.

[AZ Criminal JD]

16. Fine, he stood up and did the crime.

Now he must do the time.

[bertman]

24. kas, there are surely fools on the internet, but the ones who have said he deserved to be punished

have explained why, and have legitimate reasons, so they definitely are not fools. DissedByBush pretty much sums up my feelings. I'm pretty sure that he is correct that the military code of conduct not only says that a service member can refuse to obey an unlawful order, but SHOULD NOT obey an unlawful order.

I'm a Vietnam vet. It took going to Nam for me to see why that war was wrong. When I left the service I marched to end the war and I supported anyone who left the country to avoid service. After the war I favored giving amnesty to those who had "dodged the draft" by going to Canada or elsewhere. That's because most of us who fought in Vietnam were drafted, although some of us volunteered, myself included.

Regarding this situation, I am torn. We have an all-volunteer military. No one forces someone to sign up; although, I admit that adverse personal circumstances can weigh heavily in that decision. Nonetheless, there are other options than joining up. So, it's very difficult for me to absolve our military personnel who do not honor their commitments.

I think the war is wrong. I think it's illegal. I thought so from the start. Unfortunately, our representatives in Congress gave this President the power to send our troops to war. Now they have the power to reverse that decision but they still have not done that, despite massive evidence that they were mislead or grossly mistaken in their judgment. IF AND WHEN the President is impeached or tried for his crimes and the war is deemed illegal those who resisted will be absolved. Until then, it's a legal, though highly lamentable, use of our military might.

Private Long violated his duty and he understands that. He is willing to pay the price. I honor his courage and his spirit of resistance. Perhaps a new Commander-In-Chief will pardon him.

[kas125]

26. I honor his courage and his spirit, too, and I will not sit

idly by while people deride him publicly without knowing him or what he has done or stands for. He IS willing to pay the price for his decision and he does not deserve to be called names by these people for his bravery in standing up for what is morally right.

That said, I am sick to death of people saying that since we have an all voluntary military, that these people "signed up for it." I know of one young man who returned from his second tour in Iraq in November. He has about three days left until he gets out, but he has YET to receive his paycheck since returning. Jay certainly didn't sign up for that. I know another one who was sent to Iraq and was given the job of driving a jeep across the desert. That jeep was licensed in 1953. He says it broke down about every five miles or so. Aaron certinaly didn't sign up for that. I just visited Tomas Young in the rehab center two days ago, I'm sure you know his story and if you don't, you should search DU for recent posts about him. He certainly didn't sign up for what has happened to him. I could continue with stories of kids I know all night long, but you get the idea, I'm sure. NONE of these kids signed up to go to war for lies, none of them signed up to be sent to a place where they are told to kill and/or torture innocent people. These war resisters and IVAW members are the most courageous people I know and I admire them more than I can say.

[bertman]

34. Well said, kas. I do know Tomas Young's story and I agree with all you have said.

I also think that the term "creatures" was a bad choice of words, but the author's argument proved that he is not a fool--in my opinion.

As more of these members of our military have the courage to stand up against illegal orders the tide will turn and this war will be forced to an end. Meanwhile we can do our part to support them by every legal means possible.

[proud2BlibKansan]

83. Tomas is a friend of mine

Tell him we miss him here in KC! :hi:

[kas125]

122. Actually, your name did come up during our visit on Wednesday.

But it wasn't me who brought it up, it was our mutual friend. We did tell Tomas that he's missed at home in KC, but I'm not really sure how much of what we said that day really got through, he was pretty wiped out from his therapy that day.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

57. He stood up, he knew the consequences and now he'll do his time.

[trthnd4jstc]

14. He Abandoned an Illegal War, Waged by an Illegal President, Supported by ...

People who are profiteering, and those who fell prey to those who are profiteering.

[Pastiche423]

18. Pvt. Robin Long is a courageous young man

who chose to stand up for our Constitution and against the illegal war this dispicable administration lied about to the world.

[humbled_opinion]

28. So then...

Why isn't anyone in our Democratically led Congress willing to stand up for him?
Why won't he be given a prominent roll at the Democratic nominating convention?
Why hasn't Obama spoken on the issue or for that matter Bill Clinton, who should have been front and center on the issue?

Our leadership is just as guilty and the Republicans... Seems like it probably doesn't even matter who you vote for anymore... You always get more of the same reagarless of the promises.

[ejbr]

27. I'd spend 15 months in prison over 15 months in Iraq n/t

[npk]

30. Volunteer army is a half truth.

Yes you have the option of deciding whether or not you wish to joining the military. But once you joining, you are not free to quit until after your period of enlistment has ended or until you are medically discharged. Volunteering infers that one has the option of self termination, which a soldier clearly does not have. So I would say this is merely 50 % voluntary.

[The Croquist]

82. I assume you are talking about the stop-loss policy

It was in the contract that they signed when they enlisted or re-enlisted. It also effects comparatively few (about 1%) of personnel.

[Mudoria]

31. Should have been years, not months.

[jeff30997]

35. Well,well...

It sounds like you're supporting that illegal invasion of a sovereign country and the massacre of

its population for stinking oil.That man didn't and

he should be jailed for 15 years??? WTF?

[barbtries]

74. it's 15 months

he'll still be a young man when he gets out.

edited to add: and alive, and with a clear conscience. i fully support his actions and wish they'd all do it. this war cannot be fairly compared to WWII.

[wuushew]

39. Why? That accomplishes nothing

it doesn't force him to go to Iraq nor does it lessen the cost of incarceration.

The U.S. has been on the wrong side of things for sixty-three years, so I am happy when the war machine gets irate.

[JonLP24]

130. Exactly what I was thinking

Having him in prison in years is going to teach him what? I doubt this sentence is going to change his mind about willing to participate in an illegal war. And on top of that desertion is grounds for a "Dishonorable discharge" and that will most certainly haunt him. Not entirely, but his life is over when it comes to what he wants to do in life.

[L0oniX]

32. Better to be in prison for 15 months than to die for an illegal war for capitalism.

What would be totally cool would be to send the guy letters of moral support and encouragement while he is in prison.

[bluesbassman]

37. Interesting comparison. So what did Pvt Young sign up for, if not capitalism?

He expected training, medical benefits, food and shelter, and the GI Bill. What he did not expect, apparently , was to be sent to Iraq. If he did, and assumed he could get out of deployment by claiming conscientious objector status, then he entered the service fraudulently.

I don't disagree with his decision. Hell, I don't even consider it a "real", much less just war. I don't disagree with his punishment either. The military must operate under the strictest of discipline. If it does not, it will fail, simple truth. So to let him off with no punishment would undermine the discipline essential to military operation.

I do however, disagree with calling him either a hero or a coward. In my opinion he is just a young man who made a bad decision, dealt with it the best way he could think of and is now paying the price for it. I wonder how many others like him made that first bad decision, but ended up paying the ultimate price?

[kas125]

51. Pvt. Young? Are you still talking about Robin Long or do

you mean Tomas Young? If it's Tomas, I just saw him at the Rehabilitation Center on Wednesday and if you think that he signed up NOT to receive the care he's needed for the last four years, then you had better think again. I will not go into a description of his present condition because I'm not sure how much he wants to share, but it was all avoidable and he would not be in the shape he's in if he'd gotten the proper care.

But what makes you think EITHER of them signed up for capitalism rather than patriotism? Do you know these kids so well that you can sit behind your computer and pass judgment on them? Because I do know them, and others like them and they inspire me every single day.

[bluesbassman]

54. Sorry, I was referencing Pvt Long, the subject of the OP.

I posed a question in response to a post about the Iraq war being about capitalism, which is true IMO. However, in your rush to defend and praise the actions of Pvt Long, you are avoiding the question I posed. What was his reason for volunteering in the Armed Service. If he volunteered out of patriotism and the desire to serve his country, you must remember that he took an oath upon entering. He knew, did he not, that there was a very real possibility that he could be deployed to Iraq, yet still he took that oath. If he wanted to highlight his opposition to the Iraq war, he could have refused to deploy, then he would have been arrested and charged with disobeying a direct order. His case would be heard and he could state his reasons for the record. He chose an alternate route that I hardly think makes him a hero. I don't think it makes him a coward either, but what he did can not be tolerated in the military. If you refuse to see that, I'm sorry, but it can't be explained any simpler. Like it or not, until Congress and President Obama get us out of Iraq, the men and women who serve in the armed forces are bound to obey their lawful orders.

Of course I do not think that Pvt Young signed up NOT to receive care, that was an exceptionally great leap in logic on your part. Pvt Young should be receiving the best medical care possible and nothing less.

And no, I can sit here behind my computer and ASK the question because I signed up, swore my oath and did what I was told to do. If I had been asked to do something that was unlawful, I would have refused and faced the consequences. I would not have sworn that oath though, if I was not ready to honor it.

[kas125]

58. Of course it can't be tolerated in the military, nor did I say it should be.

After you swore your oath and before you did what you were told to do, did you discover that everything that had inspired you to sign up in the first place was a lie, too? If not, then your situation and Robin's are hardly comparable.

[bluesbassman]

63. Point taken.

I cannot possibly know what Pvt Long's reasons were for enlisting, but I will certainly assume that they were honorable. The timing of his action (2005) does call into question though when he came to believe that this was an illegal war, which is the core of his position. If he enlisted prior to the invasion, then his actions were courageous up to the point of desertion. If he enlisted after the invasion, his belief that the war is illegal is still valid regardless of when he became enlightened to that fact, but it does not justify desertion.

Understand me kas, I don't think any of our brothers or sisters should be there. I too believe it is an illegal war, and I live in hope that bush and the neocons who started this horror will ultimately pay for their crimes. I also believe that for now, we must maintain an effective military, and Pvt Long's actions in 2005 undermine that reality.

[roody]

48. You can probably find contact info here:

http://www.couragetoresist.org/x/

[barbtries]

78. right you are

Robin Long, CJC
2739 East Las Vegas
Colorado Springs CO 80906

[madeline_con]

33. Question: Does he have to go back...

after his sentence is served, or is he discharged?

[NYVet]

36. He is discharged

and has a federal level felony conviction, along with either a Bad Conduct of a Dishonorable discharge.

Good riddance to him, IMO.

[barbtries]

80. dishonorable discharge

[stark6935]

38. Genocide, and illegal.

[ClayZ]

40. He is a hero in my book!

K and R

[ZombieHorde]

41. 15 months in prison versus ?? months in Iraq...

Prosecutors say the 25-year-old from Boise, Idaho, abandoned his duty and his country.

Duty is a scam and this war is not about this country.

The US government has no sense of duty for our troops, therefor the troops do not need to feel any sense of duty to it.

[Mari3333]

42. I usually lurk on the forums

I have been on DU since 2002. I was known as Mari333 at one time, and took some time off when my husband passed on, and then again when my son passed on. I have not posted for many years, but on this subject I felt a need to post.
I have had a son pass on. He was 23. I have also had a stepson who went to Iraq and another son who almost went.
Until you have had a child cross, you have no idea what it is like. No matter what age our children are , they are still our children.
I support this young man who chooses to see this war as an illegal atrocity. When my stepson went to Iraq he was not sure what he thought of this 'war.' He had to go there to find out just how wrong it was. He was a changed man when he returned, and saw what it represented. He is now more mature, and vehemently against it.
Many of these kids signed up , unaware of what this was all about. They are very young when they sign up. Many of them go to Iraq and find out, the hard way, just how full of shit this whole thing is. They watch their buddies get blown to pieces, or, as my stepson saw, children being thrown in prison at Abu Ghraib. He learned the hard way. My nephew signed up when he was 20. He ended up in Iraq in a special forces unit, and he was gung ho...until reality set in. Until he had to watch his friends being brought into a morgue set up in a tent, and he had to help put their body parts together after an explosion. My nephew and stepson are now vehemently against this war.
Reality has set in for them. They know it is bullshit, firsthand, from firsthand experience. They both say they will never go back, no matter what the consequences.
It's really easy, when one is sitting complacently on their computer, to pass judgement on these kids, based on some vague and machismo rule of duty and honour.."they signed up so they need to follow orders"...and yet, wouldn't it have been nice if a few SS officers would have refused to follow orders...what is so different?
Until you have seen your child's body in a casket, and I have, you can make statements about honour and duty all you want, but it's all based on bullshit . This kid, this young man, has decided not to take part in what he considers an illegal occupation. He doesn't want to be part of throwing kids into prison, breaking down people's doors in the middle of the night, or shooting innocent bystanders.He doesn't want to experience what my nephew did..which will haunt him for the rest of his life, shooting a little girl whose father made the mistake of driving thru a checkpoint..and my nephew opened fire on the car resulting in a little child being shot and killed along with some others in her family.
Yes, I am sorry, but statements about honour and duty are total bullshit. They usually come from people who have not ever lost a child, or experienced combat, or known a child they love who has been through it.
Thank God for young men and women who say "I refuse to be a part of this. " Thank God for them. I honour their choice, and I wish this young man the best for standing by his own personal decision.
His decision is honourable. God bless him.

[Celeborn Skywalker]

55. I remember you!

:hi:

And I agree with everything you wrote.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

59. Sorry for your loss.

Men and women who don't want to be a part of this shouldn't join the military. Duty and honor aren't bullshit. They are very real and very important to a lot of people.

David

[kas125]

60. There is nothing honorable about what we're doing in Iraq.

What about men and women whose recruiters promise them that they get a non-combat job and then it doesn't happen? What about finding out that the reasons you signed up were lies? There is nothing honorable about killing people when you know that the war was unnecessary to begin with.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

114. Did I say there was?

[kas125]

139. Yes, as a matter of fact you did. You said "duty and honor

aren't bullshit." And unless you KNOW these guys and talk to them face to face, who the hell are you to pass judgment on them?

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

144. A little reading comprehension would be nice.

The principles of duty and honor aren't bullshit. I never mentioned service in Iraq. I haven't passed judgement on anyone, in fact no one passed judgement on him. He plead guilty to desertion, no judgement needed.

David

[SpikeTss]

117. Not just that. This war is illegal and a war of aggression

It's the same kind of war for what soldiers in Europe were put on trial for after WW2:

http://musictravel.free.fr/political/political66.htm

A main theme of Mandel’s book is the huge and now underrated importance of the “supreme crime” of aggression as a source of mass killing, a crime that was the focal point of the Nuremberg trials and the basis of the UN Charter with its primary design to end the “scourge of war.” Mandel points out that the Nuremberg court regarded other war crimes and horrors as commonly derivatives of aggression, a crime that “contains within itself the accumulated evil of the whole.” War has horror-enhancement built-in as mutual destruction and killings escalate and restraints give way in the course of the struggle. (Mandel notes that the Holocaust occurred in the midst of war, with 97 percent of the murdered Jews living outside German territory in war-conquered land).

The problem for the United States (and the world) has been that this country is now in the business of aggression and its commission of the “supreme crime” is standard policy, thereby bringing the “scourge of war” across the globe in direct violation of the UN charter. Mandel’s first three chapters, on Iraq, Afghanistan, and Kosovo, center on the fact that each was a case of aggression by any credible definition of the word, hence a supreme crime. Thus, getting the rest of the world to accept and even facilitate its aggressions has been a major task for U.S. leaders and their official and unofficial propagandists. Mandel’s book is an account of how the United States has gained acceptance, toleration, and even help for its aggressions.

...

Another apologetic route has been the claim that what the United States does as it kills civilians in its wars of aggression is “collateral damage,” in contrast with the intentional killing of civilians in 9/11 and other attacks by retail terrorists. Mandel shows clearly that collateral damage is not “unintentional,” as it is well understood that civilians will die in the raids even if the exact identities and number of victims is unclear. He has an excellent analysis showing that killing innocent bystanders when targeting someone else has long been considered murder in Western law, even in the state of Texas. Mandel also shows how much the downgrading of killing labeled collateral is linked to a downgrading of the importance of the victims. He notes Brookings analyst Michael O’Hanlon’s charactererization of 1,000 civilians killed as “a mercifully low number,” “Not, ‘O my God, we killed innocent people!’”

[Lyric]

158. Most people have no idea what's really going on over there.

They are lured in with talk of "honor and duty", and serving the cause of "freedom." When the bottom line has been signed, they find out differently pretty damned fast.

Low-income kids are being recruited with lies and promises--I have literally witnessed it happening on campus, and I talked to the young man afterward to let him know what he was REALLY in for if he signed up. He changed his mind, thank god.

So far as I'm concerned, honor and duty only apply when the military ITSELF is behaving with honor. If they draw you in with lies, break promises, and send you out to kill innocent people...well, you're there under false pretenses. It was a bait and switch. That nullifies the contract, IMHO.

[noamnety]

64. I wish I could recommend your post on its own

The people who resist have my respect.

[Karenina]

65. Welcome back, Mari333!!!

:hug: Thank you for posting this!!! It is WONDERFUL to see you again. :hug:

[barbtries]

84. you should make this an OP

it's a powerful anti-war statement.
as one bereaved mother to another, thank you for writing this.

[proud2BlibKansan]

112. Hi Mari! I remember you well.

Good to see you posting again.

[JonLP24]

137. Thank you for this post!!

You articulated everything I was trying to say and more. For someone who has served in Iraq you seem to understand what many of us go thru. I'm just sickened by the good riddance comments who don't understand that many young people join (mostly for education, doing something with their lives, gi bill, etc) and don't know what they are getting themselves into.

[classysassy]

46. I am sorry

for the young man,too bad he,s not rich or the son of a bush.

[go west young man]

49. He deserves a medal for setting a higher standard.

Blind soldiering is like blind faith. Killing people because you were ordered to and you raised your hand at one time doesn't mean shit. Being a good human being trumps nationalism any day. A real soldier is someone who fights (with their brains) against the type of injustice that is the illegal and immoral invasion of Iraq. We're the soldiers who imprisoned Nelson Mandela brave? Or the soldiers that marched into Tibet and took it for China? The soldiers who followed Mao or Hitler, Stalin, or Pol Pot? The British soldiers that beat Mahatma Gandhi? The Americans who barged into people's homes in Iraq are the same. Following orders is bullshit. History has shown that time and time again. America is no different. A soldier is a tool of the gov't. Just cause you signed up doesn't mean you have to stay. You can change your mind. I'm surprised that so many at DU of all places think he should be punished for doing the right thing. His gamble paid off. He's alive and didnt have to kill anyone. Now he can fight like a real human being. For peace. With his mind.

[farmboxer]

53. Bush went AWOL, became a deserter on the 31st day

www.awolbush.com

[SpikeTss]

66. This shouldn't be a theoretical discussion

We all should have a look what the war in Iraq actually is: An imperial war, with all the consequences:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Y6iLoXIpJFQ

[cobalt1999]

67. He deserves prison.

This won't be popular here and it has nothing to do with an individuals feelings about this war. It has to do with living up to his commitments.

When he signed up, it wasn't to follow only the orders he liked. He made a commitment. He bailed on that commitment, so he deserves the punishment.

He needs to grow up. I was taught that promises were not to be given easily, but once given you kept your promises. A man is only as good as his word.

[Karenina]

75. How 'bout that divorce rate, eh?

:rofl:

[cobalt1999]

85. Divorce rate isn't the best example

A divorce can be a mutual agreement to end the commitment.

The rate of infidelities would be more a more appropriate example.

My position is unchanged there too. Anyone who has an affair is no longer to be trusted and should suffer the consequences of those actions.

It's sad the idea of being as good as your word is laughed at now.

[Karenina]

96. If I, in good faith, made a promise to someone

whom I discovered had GROSSLY deceived me in extracting that promise, I would certainly NOT feel "bound by honour" to keep it. YMMV

[cobalt1999]

100. Depends on what you mean by grossly deceived.

In relation to the original topic, what was the gross deception when signing up to serve in the military?

They agreed to serve in any war that was approved by the congress and the president. Like it or not, the congress and the president approved this war.

If congress feels they were deceived, it is their responsibility to rescind that approval, not the individual soldier.

If the soldier was told that congress had approved the war, and learns later they did not vote for it and an officer was lying, then that would violate the agreement.

[Karenina]

105. Ah, the utter failure of the American educational system...

Illegal invasion and occupation are the appropriate words wrt Iraq, unless you can enlighten me as to WHEN "war" was declared.

[cobalt1999]

109. That education system obviously failed you.

Soldiers can go into duty without an official war being declared. You might want to study up on that.

[Karenina]

110. Clearly they can and have done so about 250 times

since the end of WWII. How often has that "duty" benefitted ANYONE other than large corporate interests? May I recommend Smedley Butler"s "War is a Racket" to you? It's an enlightening work by an American hero.

[go west young man]

86. I would refer you to this man.

http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Heraclitus

[bean fidhleir]

98. Did Col. Klaus v. Stauffenberg deserve to be executed?

He did, after all, violate the oath he took as an officer of the Wehrmacht.

[JonLP24]

131. Between a recruiter and a stack full of paperwork to sign

I'm sure he didn't fully realize what he was getting himself into, trust me on this one. When you grow up as a regular citizen pretty much free to do whatever you want doesn't fully understand what the military lifestyle includes until he/she shows up 5 minutes late to a formation and will have to endure SOMETIMES name-calling, physical punishment, and other dumb punishments which make no sense. Pretty much I can't speak for this guy, but many soldiers who are real young don't really understand what they are getting themselves into because they can not simply quit. You go awol showing a desire 'to get out' the military keeps you here and puts you thru more dumb, unneccessary punishment.

[kas125]

140. Why do you feel that HE should live up to his commitments

when the people with whom he signed the contract do not live up to theirs?

[barbtries]

70. better in prison

than dead. if i was this soldier's mother i would be proud of him and would do whatever i could to make sure that his time is as short and painless as humanly possible.

[hack89]

119. Good. nt

[JonLP24]

128. I deployed with a soldier in Iraq who deserted

We were about half way thru and he went on R&R leave and never came back. He was a Bears fan so it was in time for him to catch a playoff game. I don't believe he left because he felt the war was illegal, he was going thru emotional problems, many of his peers found out about his one time crack usage and constantly poked fun of him.

Even his squad leader told him if you wanna go awol, go awol during deployment because the unit won't be able to look for you.

The sentance is too harsh and it wont 'teach him' anything which is what the military always tries to do. For those who call him a deserter and he signed up for... don't realize many young people including myself as young as 17 are well aware that the military is demanding but still have no idea what they are getting themselves into and the chain of command can be very insensitive so I'm sure he may have probaly expressed concerns to his supervisors but I'm sure they were like "stfu, you're going down range with the rest of us." ALso I'm sure he probaly wasn't fully aware of his rights in the military(which relies on officers) and didn't see the best way to approach this so he handled it the best way he thought possible.

I don't blame him and as prior army and have served 1 deployment Southwest Asia I don't consider him a 'piece of shit'(a phrase wildly thrown around atleast in the army)

[noamnety]

149. Wow, that was a cool squad leader.

Knowing nothing else about him, of course ... but that was awesome that he was willing to just lay that out there.

[bitchkitty]

146. At least he'll come out alive. n/t

[otherlander]

147. I applaud him

and feel the need to post this poem:

The God of the Weather-Beaten Face
Martín Espada
for Camilo Mejía, conscientious objector

The gods gathered:
the crusader god took off his helmet,
the desert warrior god stood his shield in the corner,
the sword-maker god sat between them sharpening blades,
the bombardier god spread his maps on the table,
the god who collects infidel heads traded trophies
with the god who collects heathen scalps,
the god of gold opened his handkerchief
for the god of oil to wipe his dripping chin,
the god who punishes sin with boils scratched his boils
and called the meeting to order.

And the gods said: War.

Sergeant Mejía heard the prisoner moan under the hood
as the guards shoved him into a steel closet, then pounded
with a sledgehammer on the door until the moaning stopped;
heard machine-gun fire slicing heads from necks
with a roar that would be the envy of swords;
heard a soldier sobbing in the toilet for the headless boy
who would open his eyes every time the soldier closed hiw own.

Sometimes a song drifts up
through the moaning and sledgehammers,
machine guns and sobbing.
Sometimes a voice floats above pandemonium
the way a seagull floats over burning ships.
Sergeant Mejía heard his father’s song,
the peasant mass of Nicaragua:
Vos sos el Dios de los pobres,
el Dios humano y sencillo,
el Dios que suda en la calle,
el Dios de rostro curtido.
You are the God of the poor,
the human and simple God,
the God who sweats in the street,
the God of the weather-beaten face.

Iraq was crowded with the faces of this God.
They watched as Sergeant Mejía said no to the other gods,
miniscule word, a pebble, a grain of rice,
but the word flipped that table at the war council,
where the bombardier god had just dealt
the last hand to the god of oil,
and cards with dates of birth and death,
like tiny tombstones, fluttered away.
Sergeant no more, Camilo Mejía walked to jail.
Commanders fed the word coward
to the sniffing microphones of reporters
who repeated obediently: coward.

The cell crowded with faces too, unseen travelers
wandering in from a century of jails:
union organizer, hunger striker, freedom rider,
street corner agitator, conscientious objector.

The God of the weather-beaten face,
dressed as an inmate steering a mop,
smuggled in the key one day, and Camilo Mejía
walked with him through epiphany’s gate.

[superconnected]

151. A hero.

Very honorable of him.

[happydreams]

163. It's weird....

I was thinking: 15 months in prison is better than a lifetime of guilt if he went to Iraq and murdered innocent people. But hell he is a hero in my book anyway. :crazy: