US, Poland agree to missile defense deal

[DogPoundPup]

Source: Chicago Public Radio / AP

WARSAW, Poland (AP) -- Poland and the United States reached an agreement Thursday that will see a battery of American missiles established inside Poland, a plan that has infuriated Russia and raised the specter of an escalation of tension with the region's communist-era master.

The deal, which was to be signed later Thursday in Warsaw by Poland and the United States, includes what Polish Prime Minister Donald Tusk called a "mutual commitment" between the two nations - beyond that of NATO - to come to each other's assistance in case of danger.

That was an obvious reference to the force and ferocity with which Russia rolled into Georgia in recent days, taking the key city of Gori and apparently burning and destroying Georgian military outposts and airfields.

Tusk said that the North Atlantic Treaty Organization would be too slow in coming to Poland's defense if Poland were threatened and that the bloc would take "days, weeks to start that machinery."

Read more: http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/P/POLAND_US_MISSILE_DEFENSE?SITE=WBEZELN&SECTION=POLITICS&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT

[SpikeTss]

1. 40 years after Prague Spring, a new invader

Here's an interesting article:

http://www.zmag.org/znet/viewArticle/18399

"As we have seen with U.S.- deployed nuclear weapons under NATO, weapons systems become symbols and signs of political commitment," says Boese. "The European deployment in my eyes is simply a way for the Bush administration to help insulate missile defense against possible future efforts to cut back or scrap what has been a tremendous waste of money and effort over the past several years."

[Lorentz]

12. -

-

[asjr]

2. The fly in the ointment has come sooner

than I anticipated. I thought we would not see it until late October, but it seems that BushCo, aided by Karl Rove, is jumping the gun. There will be many more dire situations to come and martial law will be announced earlier than thought. This administration will stop at nothing to continue the ripping the Constitution and pissing off everyone else in the world.

[bdamomma]

3. why is rove not even arrested yet,

but you can say that for all of them, someone or somebody will call them out.

[Lorentz]

14. What the hell does this have do do with martial law?

Honest to god, you guys are relentless with your paranoia. I think it's clear you WANT martial law to be declared, because you've been able to reap so much attention from being miserable the last 8 years and don't want the free ride to end. When the country goes back to being normal, you'll go back to having nothing to complain about.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

37. you outed yourself

[rayofreason]

35. Boy are you brave.

By posting what you did you have put yourself on the arrest and disappear list because the brownshirts will be rounding up all of the opposition, just like Hitler and Stalin did. So If you really believe that martial law is coming then you must be super brave.

Or not.

[Mudoria]

4. Excellent news.

[wuushew]

18. Why?

You like wasting money AND degrading relations with Russia?

[dipsydoodle]

5. US and Poland sign defence deal

Source: BBC News

Poland has signed a preliminary deal with the US on plans to host part of the controversial US defence shield.

The proposal is for the US to base 10 missile interceptors in Poland in exchange for help strengthening Polish air defences.

The US says the system will protect itself and Europe against long range missile attacks by "rogue states".

Correspondents say the deal is expected to heighten tension between the US and Russia, which has condemned the plans.


Read more: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/7561926.stm

[WriteDown]

6. When is the Russian invasion scheduled...

for Poland. I want to set my Tivo.

[martymar64]

10. No invasion, Russia can just cut off the Natural Gas or oil going to Poland

If they rely on Russian Natural Gas or oil for heating, it'll be a long cold winter in Warsaw.
Putin and Medvedev are smart enough to know that an invasion of Poland would be counterproductive. They're not impulsive idiots like President Cock-Knuckles and VP Dick-Lock over here.
I personally think Russia is in the right in this situation. It's the equivalent of them putting SAM's in Cuba or Mexico. If they did that, we'd be ready to invade either place on a dime. The US has been tightening a ring around Russia since the end of the Soviet Union. Now with this power play by US-backed Georgia, US missiles in Poland, missiles in the Czech Republic, they have every right to feel threatened. They feel as if the US is going to be the third country to attempt invading Russia in as many centuries as the successors of Napoleon and Hitler. And they'd likely be right. Just listen to the rhetoric of both Bush and McLame. They're itching for a war with Russia. Unfortunately that is a war they assuredly lose without resorting to Armageddon.
Poland has picked it's side, it'll have live with the consequences of its decision.

[theboss]

11. I don't think McCain or Bush is suicidal

Russia is protected by thousands of ICBMs. No one is invading them.

Isolating them, yes. But not invading.

[moodforaday]

16. Small correction

You wrote: "Poland has picked it's side, it'll have live with the consequences of its decision." This is the same as saying "America chose Bush again in 2004". 53% of the Polish people are vehemently opposed to the missile shield regardless, and that's the official stats, real numers are probably higher. We have our 30-percenters too, so my guess would be about 70% opposed.

But, like you guys, we let it happen. And the consequences can be nothing but dire.

ed: typo

[martymar64]

17. You are right

Most people in any country will object to the militaristic actions of its governments. It is so here, I'm a fool for not thinking that it would be the same anywhere else.

As for your second point, you are correct on that as well. We're living with the consequences of our decisions and it stinks. It really is a curse to live in interesting times.

[theboss]

7. Russia is going to be pissed, but to hell with them right now

I think Obama needs to back bringing Ukraine into NATO loudly and proudly.

[Jack_DeLeon]

9. I agree...

the Polish do not want to be rolled over by a more powerful nation again.

[martymar64]

15. Like us?

The Russians are rightly seeing Poland as the US staging area for their turn at invading Russia. That's where Napoleon and Hitler started, why not Bush?

[rayofreason]

34. Invade Russia?????

Oh, give me a break.

Russian are incredibly paranoid, but nobody I know in Moscow thinks that the US wants to move an army into Poland and invade.

[martymar64]

40. Maybe then a first nuclear strike, thus the missile and radar in E Europe

They want to have a ring of countermeasures around Russia, to make a nuclear first strike feasible. I wouldn't put that past Bush or McLame, they are still in the cold war mindset. They are slavering for control of Russian oil and natural gas and will even encourage genocide against the South Ossetians to make it happen.
Russia should give Poland, Ukraine and the Baltic States a choice, NATO membership or Russian oil and gas for your furnaces and cars. Can't have both, take a pick. If you join NATO, then you can buy your energy from the Arabs. NATO wouldn't be able to do a damned thing about that.

[martymar64]

13. Obama needs to keep us out of that region, period.

Bringing Ukraine into NATO is pretty much begging for a war with Russia. A war we would lose short of resorting to nuclear winter, since most of our troops are in Iraq and Afghanistan. It would be the equivalent of bringing Mexico into the Warsaw Pact.
Russia can also cut off the oil and natural gas going to Western Europe. It gets awfully cold in many NATO countries in the winter. Berlin, Brussels and Warsaw will need to stock up on blankets before winter hits.
We need to butt out of Russia's business before people get hurt, namely we the people. They see the US as itching to invade Russia. Do you want them to be even more nervous about our intentions? With your logic, they can put nukes back into Cuba or base nukes in Venezuela or Nicaragua. See where this can lead?
Fuck bringing back the cold war and fuck the imperialistic neocon rhetoric.

[magellan]

8. Sounds like BushCo got exactly what they wanted

Too bad so many innocent civilians in Georgia and S Ossetia had to die for it.

[happyslug]

19. Bush and Company have been reading to much Mahan

Alfred Thayer Mahan's wrote "The Influence of Sea Power upon History, 1600 ­ 1783" in 1890. In a Nutshell it set up the philosophy that Naval power sets world power. Mahan did make one big objection to this, if the other side had little or no coast line OR its vital areas could not be attacked by Naval power. That basically meant Russia, for it Russia is the largest land mass in the world and except for the Arctic ocean has very little coast line. This has become known as the "Great naval Power" vs the "Great land Power" conflict. During the Cold War this "problem" was resolved by deciding to bomb Russia completely since the US did not have the capable of conquering Russia, the next "best" was to destroy it and we could do so once we had the Atomic Bomb (and the subsequent Hydrogen bomb). In many ways this administration is taking that philosophy to the extreme we dare not do during the Cold War. They want Russia out of the picture, preferably destroyed (but they want the Resources so Bush and Company has an internal conflict as to the destruction of Russia).

More on Mahan:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alfred_Thayer_Mahan
http://www.mindef.gov.sg/safti/pointer/back/journals/2001/Vol27_4/7.htm

Mahan's Actual book (if you want to read it, it is out of Copyright):
http://www.gutenberg.org/etext/13529

[dipsydoodle]

20. However

it must still be approved by Poland's parliament.

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/europe/2008/08/2008814181417872788.html

That cannot be taken as read as there were issues on this subject earlier this week.

[snappyturtle]

21. Poland, U.S. Reach Missile Shield Deal

Source: http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0%2C25197%2C24184574-12377%2C00.html

From correspondents in Warsaw | August 15, 2008
WARSAW and Washington have reached a preliminary deal on basing elements of a controversial US missile shield in Poland, Polish Prime Minister Donald Tusk announced today.

"We have reached a deal with the United States on the shield," after Washington agreed to meet Poland's key demand for defence aid separate from the anti-missile system, Mr Tusk told Polish news channel TVN.

Washington aims to base 10 interceptor missiles in Poland plus a radar facility in the neighbouring Czech Republic by 2011-2013 to complete a system already in place in the United States, Greenland and Britain.

The United States insists the plan is to ward off potential missile attacks by "rogue states," notably Iran, and is not directed against Russia.







No link yet.

---

more at source.....

Notice this is dated for tomorrow...is it tomorrow in Poland..I guess. Could this announcement be considered ratcheting up the Georgian/Russian conflict?

[TomInTib]

22. You're damned right it could be.

This makes the timing of the Georgian action damned suspicious.

[snappyturtle]

26. The following tidbits in the article bother me:

"Mr Tusk said that the United States had also "committed to close cooperation with Poland in the event of a danger from a third party".

Overnight, Polish Foreign Minister Radoslaw Sikorski said that Warsaw was looking for a "kind of reinforcement of Article Five" of the treaty binding NATO's 26 nations.

The article says an attack against one member is an attack against the entire alliance."

It's important to note that the article says this is a preliminary agreement and that negotiations have been ongoing for 15 months....so why would this be announced now? You would think inlight of the difficulties going on that waiting a bit would have been the more prudent way.

[lib2DaBone]

23. What about Russia in Cuba?

It's OK if Bush builds a missile shield in Russia's back yard. No one is supposed to notice. What happens when Russia builds a Missile Shield in Cuba?


edit for spelling

[amandabeech]

29. Well, what would Obama do?

The Russians tried to set up nuclear tipped ballistic missiles in Cuba, and you know what happened with that.

The Russians dragged SS-21s into Ossettia, FYI.

[AlphaCentauri]

30. Russians could have argue that they want to protect Venezuela from Colombia

So they would place defense systems in the americas

[scarletwoman]

24. Oh cripes. Why can't we just round up all the "leaders" and incarcerate them where they can't

pull any more shit?

I'm so sick of the entire planet being held hostage by a bunch of sociopaths. Who needs this shit? What good does it do for me, or for any peasant anywhere? Whose planet is this anyway? Why do these assholes get to decide for the rest of us how to fuck things up to the max?

I totally resent this shit. If the human species is going to survive and evolve, we need to cull the assholes. Seriously.

sw

[AlphaCentauri]

31. we are not electing leaders anymore

we are electing managers, democracy has been privatize.

[scarletwoman]

36. There are no "leaders", there are only OWNERS, and those they control. (nt)

[GreenPartyVoter]

25. This makes me darned nervous

[rayofreason]

27. What a surprise!!!

Russia fires SS21 missiles at a former Soviet Republic and Poland signs an anti-missile deal.

http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/russia-fires-ss-21-ballistic-missiles/story.aspx?guid=%7BBBA6D0C0-0C68-4870-AD17-D64189FBD05F%7D&dist=hppr


I would.

[snappyturtle]

28. Oh Lordy I hadn't heard that! Well they're going to do what they're going to do! nt

[AlphaCentauri]

32. OMG they could use those to kill the Georgia president, I'm glad they didn't

Should I believe that?

[DU GrovelBot]

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[IndianaGreen]

38. Another blunder from the todies running Poland today

Under its communist governments, Poland had abortion rights and LGBT rights. Under the glorious "freedom and democracy" that replaced communism, abortions are illegal and persecution of gays is a state-sponsored sport.

[dipsydoodle]

39. Isn't that due to the fact

that the old Communist Government could override the Catholic Church but that is no longer the case. :shrug:

If so then the blame actually lies with the Catholic Church - choir boys fine / abortion and gays not fine.

[WriteDown]

41. You do realize tthat the communist regime

was brutal toward the Polish. Any discussion of rights under that regime is a little funny.