Group Files Suit Over 'I Believe' Plates in SC

[Hissyspit]

Source: Associated Press

Group files suit over 'I Believe' plates in SC

By SEANNA ADCOX, Associated Press Writer
Thu Jun 19, 7:27 PM ET
COLUMBIA, S.C. - A group that advocates separation of church and state filed a federal lawsuit Thursday to prevent South Carolina from becoming the first state to create "I Believe" license plates.

The group contends that South Carolina's government is endorsing Christianity by allowing the plates, which would include a cross superimposed on a stained glass window.

Washington-based Americans United for Separation of Church and State filed the lawsuit on behalf of two Christian pastors, a humanist pastor and a rabbi in South Carolina, along with the Hindu American Foundation.

"I do believe these 'I Believe' plates will not see the light of day because the courts, I'm confident, will see through this," said the Rev. Barry Lynn, the group's executive director.

The lawsuit, filed in U.S. District Court for South Carolina, asks a judge to stop the state from making the plates and rule that the law allowing them violates the First Amendment.

Read more: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080619/ap_on_re_us/religious_license_plate

---

This file image supplied Thursday April 17, 2008, by Craig Dobson from Faith in Teaching, shows a proposed specialty Florida license plate. South Carolina legislators based their law approving a new license plate on one proposed in Florida, but which failed to pass in that state. The actual design for South Carolina's version of the 'I Believe' license plate has yet to be finalized. Lt. Gov. Andre Bauer said he would pay the $4,000 deposit needed for the special plates to be made, but the agency said Thursday, June 19, 2008, that's unnecessary. (AP Photo/Faith in Teaching, James Moore, File)

[msongs]

1. if that then people should be able to have "I DON'T believe" plates too nt

[The Liberal Thinker]

4. Well not really.

There's freedom of religion, not freedom of anti-religion.

[defendandprotect]

7. Separation of Church & State provides for non-religion . . .

It is not only a right to practice religion, but also to NOT practice religion ---

freedom FROM religion --

And that's based on your highest privilege in a democracy --- your right to freedom of thought,
freedom of conscience.

[The Liberal Thinker]

14. Yeah, sure, but...

Don't you think that proclaiming "I dont believe" is more of an abrasive statement than a statement of faith? Especially because you're proclaiming lack of faith?

[frog92969]

16. More abrasive?

:wtf:

[The Liberal Thinker]

18. Yeah, the statement lends itself to trying to piss Christians off.

When a believer says "I believe" it's because they're proud to believe. Simple as that. Not gonna piss any atheists off.
When a nonbeliever says "I don't believe" it's because their proud to not believe. That's gonna piss religious people off because it'll be seen as a rebuke to their religion.

[frog92969]

22. Then Christians will just have to be pissed off.

I'm not technically an Atheist, but I can easily understand the mindset.

If they feel the need to impose threatening fairytales on themselves merely to TRY to act compassionately toward their own species, and expect not to be ridiculed, then they expect too much. If they feel the need to impose it on me, they will be promptly told to back the fuck off.
History shows us that organized religion has caused more suffering death and destruction than anything since the last ice age, and holds back human progress whenever possible.
So yes, it does piss us off. And it shouldn't be allowed to spread into positions of power, not even slightly.

[leftynyc]

32. I understand what you're saying

and I'm a very strong believer in separation of church and state. That said, I really don't see how vanity license plates imposes their religion on you. The only way this is unconstitutional is if other religions (Muslims wanting a crescent license plate or Jews wanting an Star of David) are turned down. THEN it's discriminatory. THEN it's holding one religion over the others.

And atheism doesn't exactly have the cleanest history when it comes to tolerating believers (Pol Pot, Chairman Mao, Stalin). Humanity simply has evil people to deal with.

[awoke_in_2003]

38. Stop the Pol Pot and Stalin meme

They were brutal dictators who opposed religion since it was a threat to their power. They were not atheists.

[leftynyc]

42. Not the point

In one case you have people attacking non-believers, in the other the attack is on believers. Sometimes people just suck and use whatever excuse works for them. Evil is evil and religion has nothing to do with it. All believers aren't evil and all non-believers aren't evil. That's the point.

[defendandprotect]

58. Organized patriarchal religion begins with a war on women . . .

Of course it is "evil" ---

Organized patriarchal religion gives license for the war on nature ---
"Manifest Destiny" and "Man's Dominion Over Nature" -- suicidal concepts which
are now delivering pollution of the planet, overpopulation - and Global Warming!!!

Organized patriarchal religion has also been deeply involved in pushing for enslavement
and genocide vs the Native America --- involved in blessing the system of African
ednslavement in America.

What we are mainly discussing is not the "people" of the church --- you should be clear
on that ---
Our criticism is of the church hierarchy -- its dogmas, it's armies, it's lies.

Further not permitting govlernment to issue "religious" license plates isn't an attack
on "believers" --- it is simply upholding Separation of Church & State ---

Anyone who wishes can always simply get a sticker which says "I believe" and stick it on
their car.

This license deal is an attempt to try to involve government in confirming the existence
of a "god."

[MindPilot]

44. Please see my post 43 n/t

[defendandprotect]

57. It's not "imposing their religion on you" ---

It's involving government in advertising their religion ---

And when we have citizens all running around with Stars of David and Crescents on Crosses on their
licenses plates --- will they all be fully armed with concealed weapons. Oh, joy!

How intelligent do you have to be to see that this is recipe for disaster --- ?

Actually, STALIN had studied to be a Catholic pries, if I recall correct . . . ?

However, suggesting that FASCISTS are atheists is a bit over the moon ---

[tomg]

98. Minor point:

Stalin studied to be a Russian Orthodox priest. Still, I'll support it if I can get one for the Flying Spaghetti Monster.

[Zhade]

91. Catholicism killed 3/4 of the population of Europe during the Black Death...

...because they thought cats evil and killed countless numbers of them, which allowed for rats to spread the plague.

Beat that with you idiotic anti-atheist bullshit (those dictators DID NOT KILL IN THE NAME OF ATHEISM).

[and-justice-for-all]

105. None on them were Atheist...

Sorry about it. Those were dictatorships, under the which the state was worshiped and the dictator saw himself as a god.

[JeanGrey]

108. In my opinion it is much to do about nothing. I would probably

get one of the plates they are lovely. As far as being discriminatory, nonsense. NO ONE is being forced to get one. End of story.

[petronius]

112. The difference here, IIRC, is that this plate got its start in the legislature - the gov't itself

is sponsoring and requesting the special plate, and apparently waiving the initial deposit requirement.

If this plate was being treated the same as any other specialty plate - an outside group makes the request and raises the startup funds - I wouldn't have a problem as long as all other religious and non-religious groups were treated fairly. However, it seems in this case that it's a direct endorsement of a specific religious tradition by the state government...

[JNelson6563]

31. Oh no, mustn't state different opinon than the Christians!

That is about the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard.

Julie

[TommyO]

41. And some so-called "christians" don't piss others off

by constantly trying to bring their faith into the public square through laws and special plates like this?

[Arugula Latte]

48. The "I Believe" plates piss me off, and you do, too.

But, hey, I go on with my life. Christians can too.

Too f@#$ing bad if religious people get pissed off. That's part of living in a society where people are free to point out that religion is either something fabulous or a big steaming load of fairytales and mythology.

Welcome to DU. Enjoy your stay.

[defendandprotect]

56. My opinion is that these methods are simply another way of . . .

trying to bully citizens into making a declaration of faith --
"Look -- everyone else is doing it!" ---

What else are funny little hats and jewelry with crosses on them and "veils" about,
except trying to say our team is bigger than your team?

Or, "our gang rules in this part of town" ---

[Zhade]

89. If it pisses them off, tough. MY rights aren't abrogated because THEY don't like how I use them!

That's not how it works.

[Zhade]

90. Not piss atheists off? They're using OUR tax dollars, of course it pisses us off!

NT!

[Lost-in-FL]

95. That's the point...

and I'm glad it does.

[MindPilot]

46. Can you please explain why faith is considered a virtue?

Faith by it's very definition is the belief in something for which there is no evidence. So why is a "person of faith" accorded a degree of respect the non-faithful are not?

No one has been able to answer that question yet; perhaps you will be the first.

[defendandprotect]

54. Eh . . .

Try re-reading what I said to you about your highest privilege under our Constitution --
Ask youself if that has any meaning/value to you --

Vatican II, for instance, by Pope John XXIII, told members to "use their own personal conscience
to decide for themselves whether or not to use birth control." The right-wing popes who succeeded
him have tried to destroy Vatican II.

If you look at Pope John's statement, he is giving the church a compassionate and humane face --
and he is saying that the church should be a democrdacy.

In order to support organized patriarchal religions, members have had to forgo the right to
think freely, to be guided by their own consciences.

"Faith" is not fact ---
It's used by organized patriarchal religions in place of fact --

For many of us "I believe" is not only an "abrasive" statement --- it's inane.

It suggests an "underinformed" member of society.

[Thor_MN]

103. Not anymore abrasive than this plate is to anyone who is not a xtian.

I take it you are assuming that an "I don't believe" would have a Christian cross on it. That plate would a direct statement and abrasive. Don't know why anyone going to the bother of getting a special plate would limit their statement to Christians though.

There's a whole bunch of religions out there, most of which are based on the concept that belief in any other relgion is going to lead you straight to hell. A statement that you believe in a particular religion is therefore a "Piss off" to all the other religions that claim they are the one, true religion.

If a state wants to make "I believe" plates, they better be prepared to make them with whatever iconography a person desires, as limiting it to a Chrisian cross, or religion for that matter, is wrong.

[Hissyspit]

13. You're kidding, right? Anti-religion.

"The Liberal Thinker"

Suuuure...

[The Liberal Thinker]

15. No, I'm not kidding.

Don't you think that proclaiming "I dont believe" is more of a hissy fit way of getting under Christians' skin than anything else? I mean you can't have a genuine expression of faith when what you're dealing with is a lack of any.

[Hissyspit]

17. The Bill of Rights:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof

By the way, it's against the rules of this site to mock people's usernames.

[The Liberal Thinker]

19. Really?

Then why the fuck did you mock mine?

In regards to your Bill of Rights post, you didn't even respond to what I said.

[Hissyspit]

25. I wasn't mocking it.

I was questioning why you chose it as your username. But I can understand how you might misinterpret that.

RE: Responding to what you said. Yes, I did. Go back and read your earlier posts and then read mine again. There is a clear bias in your sense and understanding of what "freedom of religion" is as it relates to the state. Anything a non-Christian put on a license plate would or could be seen as abrasive, contrarian or offensive to a Christian. If I put "atheos" on it, someone would get upset, and also included in that first amendment is: "Congress shall make no law ... abridging the freedom of speech."

[Arugula Latte]

49. Why are you so thin skinned, and why do you think

Christians deserve protection so their widdle feewings don't get hurt, but other people don't?

[Zhade]

92. It's a simple statement of fact: I don't believe.

I'll give you one thing - at least you acknowledge that atheism ISN'T a "faith" or "religion".

[New Dawn]

20. Then I'm sure you wouldn't mind a Pentagram plate that says,

"I believe." Right?

[leftynyc]

34. The reality is that if you were

turned down for such a license plate, THEN there would be a case for discrimination.

[Goblinmonger]

50. this plate with a cross

is printed by the state. It is not a personalized license plate. The only option is a Christian option. The fact that people on DU can't see how this is a clear violation of the 1st amendment and excessive entanglement boggles my mind.

[leftynyc]

51. Are you saying that anyone

buying a car and getting license plates will automatically get these plates? I hadn't read that anywhere and if that's the case, I hope the state gets blown out of the water.

[defendandprotect]

60. No -- I think the poster was simply telling you that it is an attempt

to involve government in religion --- in the "god" business ---

[Goblinmonger]

63. No, I'm not

but the ONLY religion the state is making a plate for is Christian. No others. That is endorsement of that religion.

[defendandprotect]

59. No -- license plates involve GOVERNMENT . . .

so if you're trying to get government to issue something that says, "I believe"

you are trying to undo Separation of Church & State ---

Most of all, organized patriarchal religions want government involved on their side

in the "god" issue ---

When religion was tossed out of our public schools, organized patriarchal religions

lost not only a way to spread their word to very young children, but the verification

of their "god" that an attachment to our public schools accorded them.

[JeanGrey]

111. Why would he? If you want a license plate like that, knock

yourself out.

[DeSwiss]

21. It isn't "anti-religion"....

...when you don't believe in someone's else's beliefs. That's called FREEDOM.

[Zhade]

88. Bullshit. It's freedom Of and FROM religion.

Learn some basic Constitutional law.

[raystorm7]

5. Its only fair ;) ... Watch that never happen

[LiberalFighter]

9. No... either "I think" or "I know" should be the alternative

[DeSwiss]

23. Or at least a license plate that tells the WHOLE truth:

"I Believe In Talking Snakes"

[Starry Messenger]

29. You are my internet hero for the day.

Thank you for a much needed chuckle!

[awoke_in_2003]

40. You're a heathen

Ceiling Cat is the one true God :)

[MercutioATC]

2. Can we get them to address the "Choose Life" plates in Ohio next?

[defendandprotect]

61. How about . . . "Choose women's lives" ---- ???

[tomg]

99. Well, they can keep choose life, but only

if I get to have an unplugged electric chair for the picture as opposed to what appear to be two cabbage patch kids. Or if we can add to it: Choose Life. . . End the War.

"Let a hundred flowers bloom; let a hundred schools of thought contend" Chairman Mao

"Let a hundred license plates be stamped; let a hundred Division of Motor Vehicles contend" Secretary of Transportation Mary E. Peters

[Rick Myers]

3. I want a plate that says...

"Jeebus loves you, the rest of us think you're an asshole!"

[WorseBeforeBetter]

6. What the hell do they have against Tinkerbell?!

Oh, NOW I get it. :-P

[AmyDeLune]

27. *THAT* I would buy!

...if I had a car...

[Nihil]

102. Excellent!

That is a brilliant job - well done!

:toast:

[Carnea]

8. In Florida we have plates with the word DEVIL on them.

[Bigmack]

10. Interesting timing....

Not on the suit... on the issuing of the plates.

Election year. Separation of Church/State people sue. Lots of news coverage. "Secular humanists" hooked to Dems. Repubs claim god is on their side. Repubs claim attack on Xians. Dumbshit kneejerk fundies turn out and vote to protect god.

Something like that.

[greyl]

11. Barry Lynn = Best Reverend Ever. nt

[bluestateguy]

12. A lawsuit. Gee, I didn't see that coming

Let's see, an explicit religious message on a state issued license plate.

How long did it take for the lawsuit to be filed? 20 minutes?

[Canuckistanian]

36. Exactly. This was done deliberately

NOBODY is stupid enough to think this wouldn't be challenged.

[DeSwiss]

24. K&R!!!

- Why are they so worried about plastering "I Believe" signs on themselves. Doesn't their god already know????

[frog92969]

26. Apparently not.

And apparently he can't defend himself either.
Omnipotent?
Are you sure that's a God you've got there?

[tomg]

100. Actually Fundy God is quite busy

winding up clocks, creating stones he can't lift, and generally listening for trees falling in forests.

[onager]

28. "I don't believe" is an abrasive statement?

(Not a response to the OP, obviously. Thanks for posting this, HS.)

I grew up in South Carolina--the Upstate region, not far from that bastion of free inquiry and tolerance, Bob Jones University.

I can just about guarantee you the following statements will not be considered "abrasive" or insulting in SC:

I don't believe in Allah.

I don't believe in Zeus.

I don't believe the Pope speaks for Gawd.

I managed to recover from a Baptist/Fundie upbringing and am now a happy Fundamentalist Atheist, thank you.

Last week, I was on vacation in Prague. I guess it would be "abrasive" to point out that the Czech Republic is proud of being "the most atheistic country in Europe." A poster over in the A/A group pointed me to this interesting report:

According to psychiatrist Libor Growsky: "I’m a nonbeliever. It’s connected to our history. Religion limited the freedom of the people. I don’t see a difference between the Communists and the Catholics. They each want people to comply with their ideals. My sense of morality comes from literature and my family."

http://atheism.about.com/b/2006/02/15/czech-republic-most-atheist-country-in-europe.htm

Highlights of my Prague visit: seeing the actual window in Prague Castle where the "Defenestration Of Prague" happened in 1618. The Pope and the staunchly Catholic Habsburg rulers of Bohemia sent two emissaries to crack down on religious dissent in Prague. The Czechs tossed them out a window. The event kicked off the Thirty Years War, in which armies of Catholics and Protestants roamed Europe, enthusiastically slaughtering each other.

Highlight #2: the statue of Jan Huss, in Prague's Old Town Square, which may be the most censored artwork in history. From 1938-1945, the Nazi occupiers of Prague covered it with swastika banners. During the 40 years of Communist rule in Prague, the statue was often draped in black cloth. Especially when the square filled with irate Czech citizens protesting the Fraternal Comradely Greetings extended by Moscow...generally with tanks. Google "Prague Spring."

The Huss statue, of course, represents more than just Huss rejecting the power of the Catholic Church at the time. It represents the power of the individual to make up his or her own mind about what to believe.

As opposed to...oh, for a wild example...having the state force each citizen to advertise his or her belief on...oh, for example...a license plate.

[Zhade]

93. Smart people, those Czechs. Smarter than, oh, 85% of people in this country.

NT!

[fasttense]

30. Instead of letting people buy these Christian plates,

They should make them mandatory for all Christians. Then I bet they would Not be so popular.

[defendandprotect]

62. Funny . ..

:)

[Tyler Durden]

33. Unmittigated Bullshit.

If this is NOT state endorsement of "A" religion, then it's easy to fix: make EVERY SINGLE RELIGIOUS SYMBOL available for placement on the plate.

ALL of them

Jewish
Islamic
Hindu
Buddhist
Shintoist
Ba'hai
Catholic (say they want a Virgin Mary...?)
Wiccan
Pagan
Animist
Santeria
Jainism
Sikhism

And so on. There is no other way you could justify it legally.

[Tesla]

35. I want this one to say "I Believe"

[slackmaster]

39. I WANT TO BELIEVE!

[MindPilot]

43. Even if they make ALL religious symbols available

that is still government endorsing religion over no religion.

Technically those plates don't belong to the owner of the car, they belong to the issuing agency. You really don't buy license plates; you rent them so that is a pretty blatant case of violating the establishment clause.

[leftynyc]

45. I don't think so

Unless they are forcing you to use these plates or there is some punishment for not using them (technically, there is a punishment for using them as vanity plates cost more), they really aren't screwing with the establishment clause. Where is the downside for individuals who don't use them?

[MindPilot]

47. Because the DMV is a government agency

and by offering the plates the government is endorsing religion since there is no compelling reason to accommodate religious beliefs on the back of someone's car as there would be on, say, a grave marker for a veteran.

[Zhade]

94. Uh, yeah they are - if they use ONE PENNY to manufacture ANYTHING that endorses religion...

...it's a clear violation. Our tax dollars are paying for them EVEN IF NO ONE CHOOSES THEM.

[Igel]

53. Your conclusion may well not follow.

It depends on how this came about. If it was a state law passed or regulation promulgated allowing cross-themed license plates, and license plates for no other religious symbols, then I agree. If there was a law or regulation that creates special requirements for other symbols, or for the cross-themed piece of metal, I agree.

But if they used the same procedure that was in place for establishing other-themed license plates, then it's not a problem. It's no different from an environmental license plate (does the government really side with environmental groups in that case?), or any other inane license plate type that I've seen. People get a petition going or make a request, it goes through channels, and it gets approved or not; sometimes intent to offend is important, sometimes not.

Government is mostly process. If the process is fair and equitable, the end result need not always be to our liking. If it's not, then we have Congress and state legislatures there to mandate the proper result.

[moggie]

55. Read what AU say about it

Excerpt:

The South Carolina legislature unanimously passed legislation to produce the license plate, and South Carolina Lt. Gov. Andre Bauer said he is willing to put up the required $4,000 to produce the plate, with the money to be reimbursed by the state later. The legislature has not proposed or made available a similar specialty plate for any other faith.

Gov. Mark Sanford allowed the bill to become law without his signature.

In South Carolina, an individual can apply for a vanity plate less than seven characters long, but symbols and emblems are not permitted. Other specialty plates are created either by DMV approval or through the legislature. Plates approved by the DMV are subject to signification regulations, including "no slogans, names or other text."

http://www.au.org/site/News2?JServSessionIdr009=u8v5hu21r5.app5b&abbr=pr&page=NewsArticle&id=9897&security=1002&news_iv_ctrl=1241

There are already perfectly good bumper stickers which Christians can use to advertise their faith, so I suspect the attraction of these plates is their aura of state approval. The subtext is not "I believe", but "the state believes".

[galledgoblin]

109. use the approved symbols from military graves

http://www.cem.va.gov/cem/hm/hmemb.asp

there is one included for atheism.

[Norrin Radd]

37. Put stickers over the "Be" and "ve"

[progressoid]

52. I believe...we are regressing.

[1Hippiechick]

64. WHY? Just buy a separate plate for the FRONT end of the car for those who want a religious symbol

on their car! God, we argue over the stupidest stuff! There's a war going on with innocent people dying!

[emad]

65. South Carolina being sued over Holy number plates that carry the image of a cross

Source: Telegraph

By Catherine Elsworth in Los Angeles
21/06/2008
South Carolina is being sued to stop it from becoming the first state to issue Christian-themed car number plates that carry the words "I believe" and the image of a cross.

Americans United for Separation of Church and State, a "religious liberty watchdog" based in Washington DC, claims the plates violate the US Constitution by giving "preferential treatment to Christianity".

The lawsuit has been filed on behalf a multi-faith group of clergy from the Bible Belt state including two Christian ministers, a humanist pastor and a Rabbi as well as the Hindu American Foundation.

They argue that by issuing the plates, which feature a cross superimposed on a stained glass church window, the state "discriminates against citizens of other faiths because it fails to provide a comparable expressive outlet".


Read more: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/2164556/South-Carolina-being-sued-over-Holy-number-plates-that-carry-the-image-of-a-cross.html

[chromotone]

66. I'm a Mahlerian

Gustav Mahler, 1860-1911

I believe God speaks to me through his music. I want his image on my license plate.

[ileus]

67. I want Algore on mine

[awoke_in_2003]

74. I want Ceiling Cat. nt

[Dr.Phool]

75. He's a fake cat!

Only Bill the Cat is the true cat!

[awoke_in_2003]

82. BLASPHEMER!!!

:)

[jdadd]

68. I want my plate to have....

the words "I believe I'll have another" and the image of a Beer mug.

[elocs]

69. Issuing plates with a Christian theme clearly gives preference and implied approval to one religion.

If they do it for one, they should have to do it for all religions and I am sure that is a road they would not want to go down simply to have plates (even if most) with a Christian theme.

[cobalt1999]

70. Can I get one with a Darwin fish and the words "I think"?

I bet that wouldn't be approved by the state.

[moose65]

71. Ugh.... I don't understand this at all!

I'm all for religious freedom, but why do these people want Jesus stuck on EVERYTHING they own?? Why not just get a regular license plate and then buy your own Jesus bumper stickers? Or one of those "Fish" emblems that I see all over the place? I truly truly believe that they want to stick Christianity into every governmental agency that they can. It makes no sense to me. I have lots of hobbies and interests and "beliefs" but I don't have to have those things plastered on every government document!

[customerserviceguy]

79. Here's how I understand it

It's really not that tough to be a Christian anymore in this country. It's not like the old days where you had competing sects of Christianity keeping each other down, like in colonial times, or excluding each other from jobs (Utah excepted). It's way not like trying to be one in a Muslim country, or back in the days of the Roman emperors (pre-Constantine, of course). So, in order to find a cross to nail themselves to, fundie Christians come up with fake controversies, so they can feel 'persecuted', and thus holy like the martyrs of old. They go make fights over evolution, nativity scenes in public squares, and now this.

The best thing to do is ignore them, unless they really are infringing on another person's rights. All you do is feed the beast when you sue them over little petty stuff like this. Now, keeping kids stupid about evolution is worth fighting against, but there's nothing wrong with people excercising First Amendment rights to display whatever they want to on a car.

A far better tactic is to let them have their silly license plates, then get a judge to mandate that the DMV has to make available Jewish, Muslim, Wiccan, atheist, etc. plates available on the same terms. It's being treated equally that really chaps the hides of the fundies, they want to feel 'special' because they're looking for others to pick on them.

[Dr.Phool]

72. I want a plate with the image of "Baghwan Bill".

Holder of all truths.

AKA, Bill the Cat!

[pattmarty]

73. My plate reads; "I hate all fucking religions".

[PassingFair]

76. I demand physical representation of His Noodly Appendage appear on my license plate!

[daleo]

86. IM4 FSM (vanity plate). n/t

[Dr.Phool]

77. Isn't NOT having a religious emblem on a plate,

An explicit endorsement of the Invisible Spaghetti Monster?

You can't see him, so he must be there.

[hyphenate]

78. What a fucking redundancy!

These morons already have those license plate frames with their choice of deity on them, and now, license plates! I think we really need to do something about how they're forcing themselves into every corner of our lives. Let them stick with the plate frames--at the very least, they say what they want to say, and while it sticks in my craw, it's the exercise of their right of religion, without making it a governmental topic.

I have a great bumper sticker someone gave me quite some time ago--it says "God, protect me from your followers." When she gave it to me, I wasn't sure how to take that, but one day, a conk on the old noggin cleared it for me.

It's right next to my NASA sticker, my "Impeach Bush" sticker, and my Darwin-coelacanth one. Guess I won't be visiting too many bible belt areas!

[surf]

80. Whats the big deal??

I don't see anything wrong with letting someone get a plate with a religious symbol on it. Whether its a star of david, cross, or whatever. As long as the DMV sees demand, why not??

[evilkumquat]

81. "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion..."

..."or prohibiting the free exercise thereof..."

First words of the First Amendment of the US Constitution requiring separation of Church and State.

Until private citizens are the ones issuing license plates, "God", "Jeebus", "Allah", et. al., can not be referred to on the plates without violating the Constitution.

Not that that stops states like Indiana or South Carolina...

[az chela]

84. What is the point

It is just more diving the people.Give it up.I am not a christian I consider myself a free thinker and have no religious beliefs and get sick of all the pushy christians

[RainDog]

106. Separation of church and state isn't a popularity contest

As noted elsewhere - if you want to go about like a freaking Pharisee proclaiming how faithful you are, then buy one of those frames that says I believe. Otherwise, the state is catering to ONE religious belief - and not just one as in Protestant because some protestants would find such a plate repulsive because they're also Americans who honor this govt.

The Jefferson statement on a wall separating church and state was originally written to protect the BAPTISTS because, if there was going to be a national religion in the U.S., it would have been like the Church of Eng., not the fundamentalist protestants who now think they are somehow more devout or holy because they want to FORCE others to cater to them.

Get it? That's why fundies are so detested in this nation. They don't want freedom to believe. They want freedom to take taxpayer's dollars to support their religious beliefs that, to some of us, border on cultishness. Believe whatever you will. But don't try to make your religion a feature of the state... no matter how many ppl in that state may claim to be of one religion or another.

As far as the statement about supporting the environment as a comparison to supporting a religious faith... this is the sort of thing that drives people crazy about religious fundies in this nation. Environmental science isn't a religious belief. It is based upon reproducible results and conjectures based upon models derived from reproducible results of actions in the past. It is simply stupid to make such a comparison.

I am so glad I do not live in the south anymore. I still have religious jerks where I live, but they are no where near as intrusive as the fundies in the south. Too bad all those good religious ppl in the south can't seem to get their shit together about feeding the poor and all that.. the racial prejudice in the area is repulsive as well. But gosh darnit, they believe! If Jesus were alive today and saw the crap the fundies were pulling in this country he'd throw them all out of their mega churches and tell them to give away their McMansions and work to help those in need. But you won't see that happening... not simply because Jesus is not going to come back, but also because it's enough to fight over a license plate to be "holy."

spare me.

[jmowreader]

107. The "whatever" is the problem, Surf

The only religion they'll have on these plates will be Christianity.

License plates are made on inkjet printers--they print the image of the plate onto vinyl with a solvent-based inkjet printer, laminate it, apply it to the license plate and put the plate in the press to emboss the raised parts. Creating a symbol for every religion wouldn't be a huge problem--make one background, put "I Believe" at the bottom of it and float an appropriate, tasteful symbol of the faith on the left side. That's not what they're doing--instead, you will be able to get a religious plate if you're a Christian and you'll have to settle for some other plate if you're Anything Else.

They would have to limit it to Mainstream Religions, though; with our luck, the Church of God with Signs Following--the snake-handlers--would come up with its own symbol.

[wtmusic]

83. "I Believe in Straight Marriage"

is coming next, and all of those who see this as a "harmless" gesture will have some 'splainin' to do.

[az chela]

85. Barf me with a spoon

Enough Already.

[Systematic Chaos]

87. Actually that's "Barf out! Gag me with a spoon!"

Frank Zappa is probably rolling over in his grave as we speak.

Sorry, couldn't resist. :D

[JVS]

96. If you pay the dough, you get the plate

[Politicub]

97. Are they doing this so Christian drivers get a pass

from Christian cops? If this passes, it would be an interesting thing to study - does having this plate impact the driver getting pulled over less?

[galledgoblin]

110. ha!

great point!

[RNdaSilva]

101. One can always get...

a custom license plate frame to state whatever message they damn well please...symbols et al. Even bumper and window stickers.

Problem solved.

Much ado about nothing here.

Peace!

[and-justice-for-all]

104. We have a similar plate here in Indiana...

(In god We Trust)it is an eye soar to say the least. Luckily, it is not the single standard plate.

If this is coming from Tax Payer funds, it is a violoation. If those people want a specialty plate like that, they need to pay for it, just as you would any speciality plate.

[Straight Shooter]

113. Except for the trite design, this is what "I believe" reminds me of:

I believe for every drop of rain that falls, a flower grows.

I believe that somewhere in the darkest night, a candle glows.

I believe for everyone who goes astray, someone will come to show the way.

I believe, I believe.

I believe above the storm the smallest pray'r will still be heard.

I believe that someone in the great somewhere hears every word.

Every time I hear a newborn baby cry, or touch a leaf or see the sky,

Then I know why I believe!

This was an Elvis Presley tune. Nice and sappy. Perfect for an earworm, song-stuck-in-the-head syndrome :)

[Megahurtz]

114. Totally improper.

The Plate I mean.