Iraq might have reached turning point

[underpants]

Source: Richmond Times-Dispatch

Situation is still fragile, but the country seems safer, government is taking hold


Many Iraqis themselves fear the relative calm won't last -- even though monthly death tolls have been declining since the middle of last year.

"This relative calm is the calm before the storm," said Mohammed al-Sheikhli, director of the Transitional Justice Research Center in Baghdad. "The worst violence is not over because the calm may collapse any moment."

Most of the root causes of the war -- notably the power struggle between Sunnis and Shiites -- remain unresolved.

U.S. troops have managed to suppress the conflict in Baghdad, but political progress has lagged far behind.

Fear and mistrust lie just beneath the surface.

Read more: http://www.inrich.com/cva/ric/news.apx.-content-articles-RTD-2008-06-17-0090.html

---

The newfound prestige could be short-lived, however, if the government does not move quickly to undermine support for the militants by improving public services and creating jobs -- especially in areas recently freed from extremist control.

Many Iraqis are grumbling that they have yet to see the effects of the windfall in profits -- estimated as high as $70 billion this year -- that the country is expected to reap because of high world oil prices. Corruption and bureaucratic chaos are widely blamed for the problem.

[gratuitous]

1. It's possible the situation is improving

After all, Iraqis can read a calendar as well as anyone, and January 2009 is closer than it's ever been.

[klyon]

28. They better fight harder if they want us out, if McSame wins we stay

or maybe pull a Reagan and make a deal with Obama before the election. Just kidding I don't think Obama would do that but making a deal with Bush helps McCain. Just saying. I have never been in favor of war but if the occupation is put in a favorable light by the MSM and the economy and housing market are looks like or is portrayed as improving McCain could make it close enough to steal again. We need impeachment or hearings to show the Republican for what they are.

[ohio2007]

30. You think bombing a market full of Iraqi civilians is going to get us to leave?

Ban Ki-moon Deplores Deadly Baghdad Market Bombing
http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/WO0806/S00395.htm



Iraq bus stop bomb 'kills 51' - Post Media Reply
A car bomb explosion at a busy bus stop in northern Baghdad has killed 51 people and left another 75 wounded, Iraqi police have said.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=7fc_1213742012


people like mookie al Sadr and the ex Baathists Sunni leaders are better off rebuilding their own slums instead of killing the slum dwellars. Nothing will get us out of there faster then peace breaking out imo.

[klyon]

32. I will not and never have condoned violence in any way.

peace would be good, but if McCain wins we stay.

[ohio2007]

34. Who are the "THEY" you refer to that you hope will fight harder ?

Not these guys I'll suppose. Don't go to the link if you are weak ;
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=429_1213836404

I take it actually mean the Sunni Anbar awakening crowd that got burned welcoming in these "freedom fighters" or hope an Iraqi govt can stand and fight on its own feet to rid itself of the US military crutch.

When Obama wins, we still will have a footprint that needs downsized carefully with Iraqi consent and cooperation. Iraqi's have a voice in setting timetables, Obama recently said said he doesn't want to see anther fall of Saigon play out and believes in victory;

Here are some of his words from November,2006. I think it can work starting in '09




Obama's Iraq exit strategy

snip
I have long said that the only solution in Iraq is a political one. To reach such a solution, we must communicate clearly and effectively to the factions in Iraq that the days of asking, urging, and waiting for them to take control of their own country are coming to an end. No more coddling, no more equivocation. Our best hope for success is to use the tools we have – military, financial, diplomatic – to pressure the Iraqi leadership to finally come to a political agreement between the warring factions that can create some sense of stability in the country and bring this conflict under control.

The first part of this strategy begins by exerting the greatest leverage we have on the Iraqi government – a phased redeployment of U.S. troops from Iraq on a timetable that would begin in four to six months.

snip

http://weblogs.baltimoresun.com/news/politics/blog/2006/11/obamas_iraq_exit_strategy.html

[Jackpine Radical]

2. We're winning because US casualties are down.

US casualties are down because we're hunkered down & no longer trying to actively engage hostile forces.

Yeah. We're winning.

[Spouting Horn]

4. I'm not sure if that's the case

but, we can never "win" in Iraq.

We can never recover the trillions spent or the hundreds of thousands (or more) lives that were lost.

The War Criminal in Chief and his advisers should have been extending their hands towards the secular elements in the Middle East post 9-11, but instead we embraced the wahhabists even further, and did the bidding of Al Qaeda by deposing a secular leader.

[underpants]

15. See post #14

and Welcome to DU :hi: if't I haven't before

[wmbrew0206]

7. You could not be more wrong.

[leftchick]

11. sounds like you are

wrong....




In Iraq, A Surge in US Airstrikes
by Ernesto Londoño and Amit R. Paley

http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2008/05/23/9141/

CAMP TAJI, Iraq - From an Apache helicopter, Capt. Ben Katzenberger’s battlefield resembles a vast mosaic of tiny brown boxes.

“The city looks like a bucket of Legos dumped out on the ground,” the 26-year-old pilot said. “It’s brown Legos, no color. It’s really dense and hard to pick things out because everything looks the same.”

He uses a powerful lens to zoom in on tiny silhouettes, trying to identify people with “hostile intent” among hundreds of ordinary citizens in Baghdad.

In recent weeks, Katzenberger and other pilots have dramatically increased their use of helicopter-fired missiles against enemy fighters, often in densely populated areas. Since late March, the military has fired more than 200 Hellfire missiles in the capital, compared with just six missiles fired in the previous three months.

The military says the tactic has saved the lives of ground troops and prevented attacks, but the strikes have also killed and wounded civilians, provoking criticism from Iraqis.

On Wednesday, eight people, including two children, were killed when a U.S. helicopter opened fire on a group of Iraqis traveling to a U.S. detention center to greet a man who was being released from custody, Iraqi officials said.

The U.S. military said in a statement that it had targeted men linked to a suicide bombing network. “Unfortunately, two children were killed when the other occupants of the vehicle, in which they were riding, exhibited hostile intent,” the statement said.



And don't forget the WALLS all over Baghdad segregating sects.

[wmbrew0206]

12. The poster I was responding to stated that US forces are hunkered down

and no longer engaging hostile forces.

That is wrong. The strategy Petraeus was implemented is a counter insurgency strategy that has three phases: clear, hold, rebuild.

The clear and hold part has pushed US forces off of bases and into the local neighborhood to set up combat outpost. From the combat outpost, US forces clear the local area to start with and then do constant patrols to ensure the insurgents don't come back. They then work with local residents to rebuild the area.

So, no US casualties are not down because US forces are hunkered down and not engaging hostile forces and to suggest that shows you have no clue about what is going on in Iraq since the beginning of 2007.

[leftchick]

19. "they kill people"

are you purposely being obtuse? One has to wonder :eyes:

In case you are not, the point you have completely missed is that the US is bombing civilians indiscriminately in a heavily populated SLUM. I suppose you are going to suggest BETRAYUS's Troops are on the ground while the US bombs away? lol! Anyone with a modicum of intelligence knows the surge was only a success in segregating once mixed communities by sectarian violence and Israeli type OCCUPATION walls with checkpoints manned by Iraqi "forces", in addition to the hundred fold increase in bombing a country to the stone ages and killing thousands of civilians by bombs just in the last few months. Of course US casulties are down under those circumstances.

But go ahead hero, don't believe War is a Racket. And....




<snip>

Those civilians include people like Zahara Fadhil, a 10-year-old girl with a tiny frame and long brown hair. Relatives said she was wounded by a missile on April 20 at approximately 8 p.m. in Baghdad’s Shiite enclave of Sadr City. The U.S. military said it fired a Hellfire missile in Zahara’s neighborhood at that time, targeting men who were seen loading rockets into a sedan.

Her face drained of color and her legs scarred by shrapnel, Zahara spoke haltingly when asked what she thought of U.S. troops.

“They kill people,” she said. Lying in bed, she gasped for air before continuing. “They should leave Iraq now.”

Shortly after Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki launched an operation in late March to crack down on Shiite militias in the southern city of Basra, Shiite fighters in Baghdad stepped up mortar and rocket attacks against the Green Zone, the fortified area housing many U.S. and Iraqi officials. A handful of Americans were killed in those attacks.

<snip>

“The heart of this family has been ripped out,” said Alaa Rahi Shaie, 29, another uncle, who was stoic in describing the death of his brother. “This is his blood,” he said, indicating red splotches in front of his home. “And the remains of his head are over there.”

He pointed at a large mound of dirt. A group of young boys dug out the remains and then showed visitors a black bag filled with clumps of hair and scalp.

Family members and neighbors said they didn’t see anyone in the area fire rockets. Two black funeral banners hung outside the battered home to honor the dead.

“They were killed because of the cowardly American bombings,” the banners read.


nuff said.

[wmbrew0206]

20. Can you read? If so, what part of my post can't you understand?

I responding to another poster who stated "US troops are hunkered down and not engaging the enemy" which is clearly not the case.

I spent seven months in Iraq as JTAC, my job was to call in air strikes, so I know what is involved in allowing any aircraft to engage a target with any ordinance. So I know for a fact that "US is bombing civilians indiscriminately" is complete BS. Yes, mistakes are made. Yes, civilians get killed. However to accuse the US of "bombing indiscriminately" like the Russian did in Afghanistan in the '80's is ridiculous.

[leftchick]

24. "Yes, mistakes are made"

That is so fucking disgusting on so many levels. You are so indoctrinated there is no hope for you to understand it from the OCCUPIED's perspective. If you did you would be interested to hear them say "they KILL PEOPLE" and realize your version of "collateral damage", aka:real human beings, has been happening for over five years on a monumental scale.

so long hero. Glad you can sleep well at night. :puke:







Muntasir Qassem, 28, lies dead on a stretcher with the body of his son Riyadh Muntasir Qassem, 2, on top of him after they were killed in an alleged US airstrike in the southern Iraqi city of Basra on April 4, 2008. At least three people, including two children, were killed in a US air strike in Iraq's southern city of Basra today, an AFP photographer said. British military spokesman Major Tom Holloway confirmed that a US Apache helicopter carried out an air strike in Haiyaniyah but had no word on any casualties. There was no immediate confirmation from the US military. AFP PHOTO/ESSAM AL SUDANI





http://www.chris-floyd.com/war/pages/1111111_jpg.htm


but hell, they are free, the US freed them from life and that bad, bad saddam man.

[underpants]

14. I believe that that poster forgot one thing on his post

:sarcasm: <---one of them things

[damntexdem]

26. What, we shouldn't welcome newcomers to DU?

Or are you responding to some other unreferenced post?

[alfredo]

13. There were stories about our soldiers who go out on patrol, but actually

hide out in "safe" areas until it is time to return to base.

[Igel]

22. Yes, there were.

From May ro July 2007. We read a lot of them dated August and September '07, but they always reported what was happening earlier in the year. Sometimes they pointed out the time frame explicitly; often they didn't, and you had to infer it.

[alfredo]

23. Soldiers have their own ways to register disapproval.

[Tempest]

3. Sadr is quietly preparing to take over the government

Legally and democratically.

He's positioning his followers strategically around the country to run in the elections and attempt to win enough seats to win control over Iraq.

There's a good chance he's going to succeed.

[ohio2007]

31. you forgot the link

Latest news I heard from all points around the world ; he is going to boycott the october elections.

http://news.google.com/news?q=al+sadr+to+boycott+the+elections&sourceid=ie7&rls=com.microsoft:en-US&ie=UTF-8&oe=utf8&um=1&hl=en&sa=X&oi=news_group&resnum=1&ct=title


Guess the polls indicate he is losing followers the longer he remains out of touch from his loyalists in a foreign country studying to be a holy elder.





http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5gRkLwGU9cvbwD95FzOt52mffL_Cw

We will know by September how many of his 35 seats he will retain when the polls are set up

http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/A4D4868A-89A6-493B-9083-D87C5BE4508F.htm

hey can't win an election, guess al Sadr will pull a Mugabe

[Peace Patriot]

5. "Corruption and bureaucratic chaos are widely blamed" for billions in oil profits doing no

good for the country's people. How could anyone expect a government set up by the Bush Junta to be anything but corrupt and chaotic, with billions of dollars of profits, and billions of dollars in aid, seemingly 'disappeared,' while the vast majority goes without water, electricity, food, housing, schools, medical care and all the bottom-line decencies of life?

It is the Bush signature--grossly indecent government. We see it wherever they rule, which is not many places, thank God--Iraq, Afghanistan, Colombia, here. And it is furthermore deliberate, for where government has been looted and ravaged, global corporate predators step in, to profit from the needs of people who have been deliberately prevented from governing themselves.

[madeline_con]

6. "... yet to see the effects of the windfall in profits - - "

Not likely they will. Besides the fact that those profits were supposed to pay for the war... oh, wait, they're paying Halliburton with that $$. My bad...

[grahamhgreen]

8. It's like a seige - they are just waiting us out.

[Hulk]

9. Aren't they pretty much running out of people to kill?

I'm a bit confused by these claims. From what I've heard...from our "free press"...that 4,000,000 have left the country, a few million have been displaced so they no longer are living in "mixed neighborhoods" (where they tend to kill each other for their 'uniqueness'", and the militias are being paid to not kill us and each other to make this whole picture look "rosey".

Should we jump up and down for joy now? Do we have to continue being dumbed down morons forever?

Wake up America. If it was your son that gets blown up tomorrow, would you still think this whole f*cking mess has any purpose at all?

Send mcAncient over. He gets along so well with Malaki, he likes to stroll around in the markets, maybe he'd like to move over there? If he does, please take liverwurst with you.

[bemildred]

10. The last dizzy spin as it circles the drain is more like it.

There is going to be even more civil war when we leave, with enhanced meddling from the neighbors too. All that oil ...

[skooooo]

16. Great! That means we can bring our soldiers home!!!

:bounce:

[underpants]

17. I love this comment posted on the article's sight

June 17, 2008 @ 10:12 AM by Anonymous
There have been so many turning points in Iraq, I'm rather confused as to which direction the Iraqis are facing.

[KansDem]

18. BBC reported yesterday (or Sunday) that 4.7 million Iraqi families have been displaced.

With many of them moving into neighboring countries, like Syria, or refugee camps. And along with this trend, many of these families have taken to prostitution to make ends meet.

But still, BushCo and Cheneyburton continue to rip us off while making misery for Iraqis and American troops...:grr:

[Lone_Star_Dem]

21. Really? Iraq has reached a turning point? Again?

"The last two weeks have been critically important and I believe may be seen as a turning point in the war in Iraq and the war on terrorism." http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2005-12-17-lieberman-iraq_x.htm">Sen. Joseph Lieberman - December 15, 2005


"We believe this is a turning point for the Iraqi citizens, and it’s a new chapter in our partnership." http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2006/05/20060501.html">George W. Bush - May 20, 2006

All these political talking points mean nothing to those who are dead, diseased, displaced, maimed and starving. Unless these issues are addressed in a serious manner, and the people see actual relief to their plight, everything else "accomplished" will be temporary. Ignoring the root causes for unrest does nothing but open more doors for conflicts between the Sunnis and the Shiites.

[damntexdem]

25. Of course it has. It does frequently.

That's the thing about going around in circles.

Meanwhile, the Iraqi news anchor shot dead outside his home on the way to work also reached a turning point.

[mcollier]

27. The US Economy is

FUBAR... And billions are spent in Iraq each week...

Hey that's our tax payer money... WTF..

[ohio2007]

29. Democratic candidate plans to visit Iraq, Afghanistan ( Gulf Times)

Democratic candidate plans to visit Iraq, Afghanistan
Published: Wednesday, 18 June, 2008, 02:10 AM Doha Time

WASHINGTON: Democrat Barack Obama, bidding to shut down scornful attacks on his White House credentials by Republican rival John McCain, said on Monday he plans a pre-election trip to Iraq and Afghanistan.
Senator Obama also went after McCain on the economy as the candidates intensified a war of words on the long march to November’s vote.
“We’ll make an announcement about that but as I’ve said, I’m interested in visiting Iraq and Afghanistan before the election,”
snip

“I am convinced that we are on the path to victory. And that victory means Americans come home, but they come home with honor in victory, not in defeat,” he told reporters in Virginia.

snip

http://www.gulf-times.com/site/topics/article.asp?cu_no=2&item_no=224946&version=1&template_id=43&parent_id=19

Declaring victory is not like flicking a light switch.
As long as the govt of Iraq continues to grow strong, it will be a nice inaugural speech to build on.

[alfredo]

33. Sadr is around that corner, waiting...

[IsItJustMe]

35. 53 died in a car bombing yesterday I believe. I really don't know what peace this post is going on

about.

Sounds like propaganda to me. Just keeping it real.