Reno urged to prepare for worse as earthquakes continue

[DogPoundPup]

Source: A/P

RENO, Nev. (AP) — Scientists urged residents of northern Nevada's largest city to prepare for a bigger event as the area continued rumbling Saturday after the largest earthquake in a two-month-long series of temblors.

More than 100 aftershocks were recorded on the western edge of the city after a magnitude 4.7 quake hit Friday night, the strongest quake around Reno since one measuring 5.1 in 1953, said researchers at the seismological laboratory at the University of Nevada, Reno.

The latest quake swept store shelves clean, cracked walls in homes and dislodged rocks on hillsides, but there were no reports of injuries or widespread major damage.

Seismologists said the recent activity is unusual because the quakes started out small and continue to build in strength. The normal pattern is for a main quake followed by smaller aftershocks.



Read more: http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5gS-Ci5Mg_3qzF4HK8o9c8qjvj2tgD909QLNG0

[Mojorabbit]

1. Wow

I lived there when I was a kid. I hope it fizzles out and does not build up to a big one.

[gateley]

2. Wow - I hadn't even heard about last night's quake.

I'm from earthquake country and feel pretty blase about them, but I'd be a wreck if there had been hundreds of temblors leading up to Friday's, and not being sure if they were pre-shocks.

Hang on Reno DUers! :grouphug:

[izquierdista]

5. No such thing

Unlike volcanos, where small rumbles can precede a big explosion, there are no such "pre-shocks" with an earthquake. A swarm of small earthquakes serves to relieve stress between two tectonic plates, leading to a smaller chance of a big temblor.

[gateley]

9. I meant to say foreshock,

but after looking it up, I understand the point you're making. And in the earthquakes I've experienced, there certainly were no warning foreshocks. Thanks for setting me straight.

[sam sarrha]

10. it has happened before, a 5.something weakening buildings then a 6 point bringing them down,

when the 6 wouldnt have by itself done as much damage

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn2999-small-tremors-preceded-italian-earthquake.html

http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/1992PhRvA..45.8351S

http://prola.aps.org/abstract/PRA/v45/i12/p8351_1

[Dead_Parrot]

11. Not actually true

There can be foreshocks - lookup the '75 Haicheng earthquake. The problem is, they aren't usually recognised as foreshocks until after the main quake (Haicheng being an exception).

[JeanGrey]

36. I guess this is just another group of "scientists" who don't know

their stuff?

[Dead_Parrot]

3. That's not good

If this is a set of fore-shocks there could be be something nasty in the pipes: Any one around there who hasn't got an emergency plan & supplies ready might do well to prepare them, sort of now-ish.

[kestrel91316]

4. The city of my birth.........

There's something happenin' here
What it is ain't exactly clear.........

I find this sequence of quakes terrible disturbing. I have LOTS of cousins in Reno (virtually everybody in Reno with my last name is no more distant than third cousin, lol). I hope they stay safe.

[whistle]

6. How close are these quakes to the nuclear waste deposit vaults?

[Lorentz]

28. There are no nuclear waste deposit vaults.

Yucca Mountain is not even open. There is some low-level waste stored at the Nevada Test Site, which is several hundred miles to the south. Stop turning everything into an outrage cause.

[whistle]

33. But Yucca Mountain is still being pushed by the special interests

...in a high risk zone. Just keeping awareness level up :yoiks:

[whistle]

34. By the way, this isn't even your post, just who are you to be ordering DUers

...to stop posting Lorentz?

[Lorentz]

37. I didn't order anyone to stop posting.

I said not to hijack a post and turn it into a (baseless) political cause. And unless you are "DogPoundPup" and are posting under multiple IDs, then it's not your post either. I wasn't aware that the only person who could contribute to a thread was the OP...

As for Yucca Mountain, the only problem with it is people (apparently like you) who don't understand radiation physics, and raise their arms in a fervor because they hear the word "nuclear".

[whistle]

38. And you do understand radiation physics I suppose, well have at it dude

...please explain what will happen when a hundred thousand barrels of nuclear waste are stockpiled under what potentially would be an unstable geological area over top of a million of more acres of underground lakes of fresh water that 30 million human beings are drinking and bathing with. Are you planning to bottle it and sell it under the brand name "After Glow"? Perhaps you've not heard of Three Mile Island, or Chernobyl or a similar environmental disaster known as Love Canal?

[Lorentz]

43. Standard anti-nuke scare tactics, I see.

Yes, I do understand radiation (believe me, or not, if you want), and I also understand that Yucca Mountain is not going to be just a bunch of rusty "barrels" of slimy green nuclear waste sitting around a "geologically unstable" area, like on the Simpsons. The waste (solid metal pellets) is also stored under 1000 feet of solid rock, unlike "Chernobyl", and will be so well-shielded to the outside world that no one will ever know it's there. It's also far enough above the water table (which doesn't supply "millions", by the way) that the likelihood of any contamination is effectively zero.

The Nevada Test Site is one of the most thoroughly mapped geological areas in the world, for the very reason of monitoring radiation dispersal on and off-site. I'm not going to bother going into all the details, but I think you'd be well-off by reading this article for a start (they have your number, it seems, and address every counter-point you've offered). It is written by quite-distinguished a physics professor.

http://muller.lbl.gov/TRessays/26-Witch-of-Yucca-Mountain.htm

Whether you like it or not, the bottom line is: the waste is here to stay. No amount of anti-nuke sloganeering is going to make it disappear. Let's hear your solution. Where would you rather store it?

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

44. Jonah Goldberg on Yucca Mtn.

:rofl:

[Lorentz]

45. Read the second link (added on edit).

Refute the UC Berkeley physics professor.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

49. (replaced on edit)

:rofl:

[Lorentz]

47. Original link here (Goldberg)

At first I took out the Jonah Goldberg link because of the knee-jerk reaction by a poster, but now have decided to put it back in because it counters the anti-nuke argument quite well:

http://www.nationalreview.com/goldberg/goldberg200408161012.asp

Whether you agree with his politics or not, what he says about Yucca Mountain is correct. This also goes for those who might try to attack Dr. Muller because he's at Berkeley (I can hear it now: "Yeah, but so is John Yoo!").

The laws of physics know no party affiliation, and they are neither left-leaning nor right-leaning.

[whistle]

48. Thanks for the article, do you know Professor Muller personally

...or attend any of his classes or lectures?

[Lorentz]

50. Don't have to know him. I know what he's talking about.

And it shouldn't matter if I know him or not. Physics can't be spun according to politics. There is no "interpretation" clause to the rules governing radioactive isotopes. The facts are what they are... and in this case, they're harmless.

[whistle]

52. I don't believe Professor Muller says plutonium is harmless in fact he

...makes a specific point that when plutonium is pulverized into dust or vaporized as from an explosion, it is highly toxic and lethal. The probability of that happening however small never goes to zero. We have all seen endless replays of the explosive force of the WTC demolitions and the massive dust clouds created by that event to know just how that might work. So harmless is not an acceptable description of a nuclear waste deposit accident no matter how remote such a possibility might be. Only the arrogance of inexperience and cocky intellectual conceit of a self-elevating physics student would permit such careless and irresponsible statements.

<snip on edit>

Uranium is a naturally occurring weakly radioactive mineral that is used to fuel nuclear reactors and is the primary component of Nuclear Weapons.

Uranium, like most elements, come in various "flavors," if you will, called isotopes. Isotopes refer to the fact that many elements can exist with more or less than the normal amount of neutrons in them. Uranium's natural weight is 238, but there are U234 and U235 isotopes, that is, a small portion of uranium atoms have three or four fewer neutrons than normal.

One of the differences between U235 and its common relative U238 is that U235 fissions very easily. Fission is the process of "splitting" an atom, releasing large amounts of energy, mostly in the form of heat.

Unfortunately, U235 is relatively rare (approx. 0.71% of natural Uranium ore) so the uranium ore is processed to provide a mixture that has more of the U235 isotope in it (around 4%). This is called "enriched uranium." The byproduct of this processing is U238 with almost no U235 in it at all, and that is "depleted uranium."

U238 in and of itself is not very fissile. When bombarded by neutrons released by U235 fission, it absorbs neutrons to become Pu239-- Plutonium. The Pu239 isotope of plutonium is fissile, and works even better than U238. It occurs very rarely in nature, and is mostly produced in nuclear reactors as a byproduct (or in so-called breeder reactors designed specifically to produce plutonium) and is used almost exclusively in nuclear reactors and nuclear weapons. Plutonium is also used in some spacecraft (explorers travelling outside earth orbit) as a power source.

Plutonium's primary radioactive decay product is alpha rays. Alpha radiation cannot penetrate a sheet of paper, and human skin is more than enough protection against it. If ingested, breathed in, or if plutonium gets into the blood stream through a wound, then the alpha radiation can cause damage to DNA and increases an individual's chances of acquiring cancer. When in the blood stream, plutonium will settle in the liver and bones.

Depleted Uranium is 40% less radioactive than natural uranium and, like plutonium, emits primarily alpha radiation. Because it has 1.7 time the mass of lead, depleted uranium has been used as projectiles in certain types of weapons. The additional mass provides more kinetic energy to the projectile and therefore has more penetrating power when used against armor (the A-10 Warthog aircraft houses a 30mm cannon using depleted uranium rounds as an anti-tank weapon).

Depleted plutonium contains 19% or more of the heavier Pu240, Pu241and Pu242 isotopes, the even isotopes are not very fissile. P241 emits low-energy beta radiation (clothing is typically sufficient to protect an individual from beta rays) to become Americium241, which emits gamma radiation at a much lower rate. Gamma radiation will penetrate deeply in to the body. Because Pu241 has a half-life of around 14.4 years and Am241 has a half-life of 432 years, the older a sample gets, the more dangerous it becomes as a radioactive material.

Contrary to popular (in some circles) belief, depleted plutonium is not used in weapons, it is too radioactive for conventional weapons and too unpredictable in nuclear weapons. But it is far from being "the most dangerous substance known to man," as there are other, more common non-radioactive materials that can kill a person a lot faster than exposure to depleted plutonium.

Answered by: D. Paradis, Avionics Instructor, NAMTRAU Lemoore, CA


The is no such beast as 'depleted plutonium'. The substance I believe you're after is 'depleted uranium', which is used in weapons projectiles and has been in the news recently over alleged health complications in Kosovo and the Persian Gulf.

Depleted uranium is produced during the recycling of spent fuel rods from nuclear reactors, during which plutonium, thorium and the most radioactive isotope of uranium (U235) are recovered for re-use in new fuel rods. The remaining 'depleted' uranium has very low levels of radioactivity - in fact, less than the original unrefined uranium oxide dug out of the ground to produce the fuel rods in the first place.

Uranium is a wonderfully dense metal - nearly twice as dense as lead - meaning that a given volume of it (say, an artillery or tank shell) packs more wallop than other metals. This is obviously attractive from a military standpoint. The problem arises not from the radioactive characteristics of the depleted metal but its chemical properties. When DU-tipped armament explodes the uranium can be rendered as very fine dust, easily ingested or breathed in, especially by children playing in burned-out wrecks. Uranium is chemically toxic, but not in low concentrations. However, there are unknowns, for example, about the long-term risks from ground water contaminated by buried DU shrapnel.

<link> http://www.physlink.com/Education/AskExperts/ae576.cfm

[Lorentz]

53. Your cut-n-paste post doesn't relate to Yucca Mountain.

Aerosolized depleted uranium is irrelevant to the discussion. Any "accident" at Yucca Mountain grave enough to severely pollute civilization is so incredibly ludicrous a scenario that it might as well be a 0 probability.

[whistle]

54. ...but it isn't zero probability and that is where your arrogance on this topic

...is fully exposed. Hiding plutonium for 200 or 300 or 452 years does not remove the hideous effects and potential disastrous outcome of a concentrated nuclear waste storage accident such as has been proposed for an earthquake prone area like Nevada and yes even under Yucca Mountain. The probability does exist however remote, and your arguments to diminish that fact only polarize the discussion. This the OP began this post how many more earth quakes have rocked Reno, the state of Nevada, neighboring U.S. states and the rest of the world. Enough to know that hot pellets of encased plutonium sealed in metal drums filled with water stacked twenty pallets high in caves and buried with sand would give this average thinking American no secure feelings at all.

As for the relevance of the attached article, it does point out that where depleted uranium although dangerous can in fact be bound and mixed with other materials to make it useful (in a hideous sort of way) for hardening metal in weapons sufficient to smash through armor-plate. Depleted plutonium on the other hand is so dangerous that no one in their right minds would ever argue that combining plutonium isotopes in sealed pellets should ever be handled or used or exposed directly to any life form.

[whistle]

55. Have the Reno and surrounding area earthquakes settled down any?

[TalkingDog]

7. Ruh-Roh.

A resonance frequency feedback loop.

This isn't going to end well.

[fed-up]

30. maybe a good quake will shake out some of the trolls :) nt

[Adsos Letter]

8. My daughter is playing in a volleyball tournament in Reno...

She called late last night because their hotel had been evacuated...they later returned, no damage but lots of shaking.

She called today to tell us aftershocks have been ongoing...the strongest today was 3.5 at 08:20 this morning.

Link to list of occurances:

http://quake.wr.usgs.gov/recenteqs/Maps/120-39_eqs.htm

[DemReadingDU]

12. That's a whole lot of shaking & rattling, n/t

[Adsos Letter]

14. yup...

we are used to shakers in California, but not this tightly focused swarming; unless, of course, you live in the Mammoth region, where it is pretty much ongoing...

[GoddessOfGuinness]

13. Could this be linked to volcanic activity?

Steamboat Springs?

[kestrel91316]

20. Well...............other than Steamboat Springs being two states away

in CO, yeah.

Mammoth has these sorts of swarms all the time and they are definitely volcanic in origin. My question is, is this related at all to the swarm of quakes centered off the southern OR coast? Those are undoubtedly volcanic also.

I am not liking all this.

[GoddessOfGuinness]

39. You're thinking of another Steamboat Springs...

There are hot springs south of Reno. Wiki says there were geysers there at one time which have ceased to erupt due to geothermal drilling. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steamboat_Springs,_Nevada

[Fiendish Thingy]

15. building codes must be different in NV- In CA, a 4.7 isn't usually enough to interrupt dinner,

or a business meeting. I mean, it gets people's attention, but we had, I think, a 4.5 within the last year, we all stood up, looked at each other, and before we could get under a table or in a doorway, it was over. Fore-shocks are nature's way of saying "do you have 3 days' supply of food and water on hand?" and "do you know how to turn off your gas?"

[Dead_Parrot]

16. I was wondering about that...

...it's not like there's no faults around there:



Maybe they are old buildings or something? :shrug:

(In case you can't see it, Reno is the white patch near the left hand edge)

[kestrel91316]

21. NV is just chock full of short little faults, but for the most part they

are too short to produce significant quakes. At least that's the impression I got when reading John McPhee's Basin and Range.

[Dead_Parrot]

23. Fingers crossed. I found an interesting one:

The 1994 Double Spring Flat Earthquake

At 5:23 A.M. (PDT) on Monday, September 12, 1994, a moderately strong earthquake occurred in a remote part of the southern Pine Nut Mountains in western Nevada. The tremor, measuring 6.0 on the Richter magnitude scale, was the largest earthquake in Nevada in 28 years. The quake was centered about 16 km southeast of Gardnerville and 17 km northeast of Markleeville, just northwest of Double Spring Flat. In keeping with tradition, this seismic event was named the "Double Spring Flat" earthquake after the nearest significant placename.

The Double Spring Flat earthquake strongly shook much of western Nevada and eastern California and was felt from Sacramento to Elko. There was no loss of life and only minor property damage, primarily due to the quake's moderate size and occurrence in a sparsely populated area. Strong shaking from the earthquake lasted about ten seconds, knocking objects from shelves and rattling nerves throughout several communities near the epicenter, including the Double Spring Flat, Topaz Ranch Estates, Minden/Gardnerville, Markleeville, and Woodfords areas. The most significant damage included a toppled chimney at the Minden Inn and a damaged foundation in Double Spring Flat. The earthquake also triggered a few minor landslides on Kingsbury Grade (S.R. 207) and the Monitor Pass road (S.R. 89), and at least one on the Sonora Pass road (S.R. 108).

Several small foreshocks, with magnitudes of up to 2.6, occurred over a 12-day period leading up to the main earthquake. Large earthquakes are sometimes preceded by small earthquakes, which often occur in swarms or clusters, but usually such activity dies down without a large event occurring.

Hope this isn't a rinse & repeat (but bigger)...

[1776Forever]

17. Whoa - is the big one coming?

:hide:

[pansypoo53219]

18. of course

georgee has time to destroy ever more america. it will come. like the cherry on top of the turd pile that is the midass touch.

[Divine Discontent]

29. I'd say yes

my thought is that there is a big earthquake coming somewhere in the West, sadly. It seems to be taking up in the Reno area, from what all these temblors are showing. The fact the scientists said this is unusual, because it is flip flopped from the way it normally happens, makes me think if it's totally different than what we're used to, that could preclude a major earthquake. I pray not, but it sure looks probable, esp. with all the reports warning of a big one coming out West, and these in Reno.

[NV Whino]

19. This really is unusual

Usually there is a big jolt, anywhere from 5.0 to 6.0 (or upwards) and then several lessor aftershocks. Or many constant shocks between 1.2 and 4.1 as at the geysers. Rarely are there small shocks leading to bigger shocks. This is very disturbing.

[kestrel91316]

22. Let's not forget that there is plenty of volcanic activity historically

all along the eastern Sierra. Just NW of Reno a ways is LASSEN COUNTY, CA which is where Mt. Lassen is.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lassen_Peak

[Xithras]

32. The San Andreas has been tring to move east for millions of years.

Basically the fault is largely locked because of the twists it takes through the Coachella Valley. For tens of millions of years, it's been slowly opening a new rift zone along the weaker crust at the east edge of the Sierras. Death Valley, Owens Valley, and Long Valley are all parts of the rift zone. It's not all a rift zone yet, but the weak area is suspected to run up to about Central Point Oregon. Some day it will fracture all the way up, the San Andreas through California will go dormant, and the earthquake zone will shift east.

[whistle]

35. Under Yucca Mountain perhaps?

:eyes:

[UndertheOcean]

24. scary

[Critters2]

25. We had a 5.2 last week that I slept through.

So, I don't quite understand the panic over a 4.7. Honestly :shrug:

[rollin74]

26. the fact that there has been a swarm of several hundred

earthquakes over the past few weeks (very unusual) leading to uncertainty/anxiety over what it may lead to. It's not the magnitude of the quakes but the massive number in close sequence.

[Dead_Parrot]

27. USGS currenty listing over 170 in the last week

http://quake.usgs.gov/recenteqs/Quakes/quakes0_fault.htm
(counting Verdi-Mogul and Reno)

Yikes. The vast majority are just grumbles, but that's a lot for one area not obviously on a volcano.

[hunter]

31. Map is interesting

http://quake.usgs.gov/recenteqs/FaultMaps/120-39.htm

[Dead_Parrot]

42. Hmm.

Big stuff off to the left, it seems.

Interesting (from a distance).

[gauguin57]

40. There was a 5.8 earthquake in Mexico this evening.

Check out all the recent earthquakes on THIS map.

Yikes!

http://www.iris.edu/seismon/

[lovuian]

41. Wow

thats a lot of activity all over the world thanks

[whistle]

46. How much different is this most recent ten day period of earthquake activity

....from say earlier ten day intervals over the past 50 years comparing numbers of earth quakes and relative magnitude? That is a dramatic visual. Thanks

[dogfacedboy]

51. I was just out there a week ago.

I gotta call my buddy up in Kings Beach to see what he can tell me about the quakes.