Local (Seattle) Stores 'Target'ing Meth Makers

[Newsjock]

http://komotv.com/stories/29445.htm

BELLEVUE - The next time you buy cold medicine, a hidden camera may be watching.

... Bellevue police say that the Target store in Factoria used surveillance cameras to record suspicious purchases.

According to investigators, the suspects would buy three boxes of cold medicine -- the max allowed per day, by law. Then the customers would change clothes and head back inside to buy three more boxes from at a different check stand. Police say the suspects would then drive to next Target store and start again.

... Target declined to comment on camera - but did say in a prepared statement, "We have a strong relationship with the local law enforcement and partner with them on various things. When they ask for our help, we certainly do so."

more

Welcome to the presumption-of-guilt surveillance society, right in the heart of the Great Northwest.

[Longhorn79]

1. Well if they have it on camera

What's your beef with catching criminals using surveillance tapes?

[RC]

2. Well, if they bought & paid for it

Oh, I forgot, the adults are in charge. That means the rest of us are kids?

[Longhorn79]

4. What would you have done?

All I'm saying is that if the guy who is paid to watch the videotape all day actually does his job and sees somebody donning fake mustaches to buy 12 bottles of cough medicine to make potentially fatal illegal drugs, that is actually a good thing. If the cameras are in the dressing rooms or snooping through the skylights of our homes, it's another story.

[mike1963]

5. There are several issues in play with this sort of thing.

1. The "illegal" one - a proper discussion of which would investigate exactly why they are illegal...which leads to
2. That they supposedly are so because they are "potentially fatal" as you mentioned, as are
3. Hundreds of others that are perfectly legal, which begs the questions of both 1 and 2, and now
4. Why should the government expend significant resources to protect people against themselves?

Would you support criminal sanctions for any of the following potentially fatal activities?:

playing tennis
eating unhealthy food
sky-diving
surfboarding
buying paint thinner (someone might drink it)
smoking tobacco
drinking vodka
shoveling snow
.............I could add a hundred more...

[Longhorn79]

11. The real issue

Well, you're right about getting to the heart of the debate, which is "should being the proprietor of a meth lab be against the law?" Granted, if you swallow enough 409, you'll probably die, but that isn't illegal. The whole issue of whether or not narcotics (of which meth isn't) should be illegal is controversial, but until Congress changes the law, they and meth are. So, if the point of posting the article was to protest the illegalization of the drug, then that is one thing, but Target and it's employees weren't doing anything you wouldn't do if you needed to make ends meet by keeping a job there. Personally, I've seen way too many people's lives go to hell over drugs to be sympathetic to the legalization of anything beyond pot.

[sendero]

22. Ok. I'll bite..

... exactly how did the fact that drugs were illegal help those people whose lives were ruined?

I thought so.

This may be the only issue on which I agree with Libertarians, both the big L and little l kind. People are going to do what they want and the fact it is illegal doesn't figure in much. The entire "drug war" has been an unmitigated disaster and will always be so.

And the shits who believe in it only believe in it when it suits them or Rush would be in jail for "intent to distribute" right now, a charge I absolutely guarantee you any prosecutor would be pressing for the quantities involved, regardless of the evidence.

So, if you are rich and powerful you don't have to worry about drug laws too much. But if you are not, you better do what Uncle Sam tells ya or you are look to have your life ruined.

[alittlelark]

8. I feel heartened you are so concerned for our PRIVACY

Take it up with ASSKROFT!!!

[mike1963]

3. Damn right, gotta put those people buying cold medicine in jail.

And I saw a guy filling up a can with gasoline the other day, he's obviously a terrorist.

Stick around, even a blind pig finds the occasional acorn.

[Occulus]

6. Had they been convicted of a crime at the time?

[Name removed]

7. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Longhorn79]

10. What are you talking about?

please?

[Longhorn79]

12. Ha!

My screen name is a school mascot. Get your mind out of the gutter, sheltered one.

[Name removed]

13. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Longhorn79]

16. I'm sorry if I offended an addict

What the hell are you talking about? I didn't post that article, I just stumbled across it, and gave a completely legit opinion on it. Then I return to find out I am a "fool, poor, (what's that supposed to mean, anyway?), uneducated (way off), confused, gay, druggie." Wow... You must have made debate team all-american.

[Occulus]

23. well now

" I don't know if you have sexual identity problems,"

and the reply to that gem was

"uneducated (way off), confused, gay, druggie."

So, you apparently equate being gay with a sexual identity problem, or vice-versa.

Telling.

[Zhade]

31. What problem, exactly, do you have with "innocent until proven guilty"?

Clearly, you have no evidence that the purchaser in question is an actual criminal. Until you do, he is innocent.

We can debate why he'd purchase like this, but the fact remains that simply buying cases of cough syrup does not a meth dealer make.

[meisje]

9. What if it was Rush L.?

thought so

[He loved Big Brother]

14. Good.

From my own experience with meth-heads here in Seattle, and experience with users of every drug, and as a user myself, I can say this particular drug, in my opinion, has caused more grief than I am comfortable with.

[Name removed]

15. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[He loved Big Brother]

17. Oops

I'd like to clarify that *I* have never used meth, since it came off that way in my post. I have no desire to after what I've seen of it in my three years living here.

[rman]

18. there was a story about a Meth maker conviced as terrorist

the Meth was considered to be some chemical WMD. You know, domestic terrorism.

[BiggJawn]

19. Here they have a list of "Precursors" that will get you busted.

No "limits". The combination of ANY of the "precursors" will get you reported.
Do NOT buy a can of engine Ether, a "Chore-Boy" scrubby and drain opener at the same time.

You will NOT get out of the parking lot. No "limits" on ammounts, no nothing. You have these items in your cart, you got some explaining to do.

Used to be you had to DO something illegal to get detained and arrested in this country. Now mere posession of COMBINATIONS of legal items will get you jacked up, and that's bad.

[htuttle]

21. I used to use an over the counter inhaler during allergy season

I know that the 'primatene' type inhalers aren't particularly good for you, but of those I've known that were prescribed a steriod-based inhaler, more than half are now walking with a cane, or otherwise developed connective tissue problems due to the steroids. So I was sticking with a PSE/ephedrine based one, and just used it sparingly.

Unfortunately, I think somebody figured out how to make meth out of them, since one day a few years ago, they all disappeard from the stores around here -- pretty much overnight. In fact, when I first went to the counter to ask about it, I got a bunch of suspicious looks just for asking.

I haven't seen an PSE/ephedrine-based inhaler of any brand around here in several years. So now I wheeze during allergy season. I guess that's the price of being 'protected' from myself? :eyes:

[progressivebydesign]

20. I've seen it all on DU.. now defending Meth labs?

Meth is not a recreational drug, folks. It kills addicts. It destroys the lives of scores of children involved with those addicts. It's one of the most socially and criminally dangerous drugs and lifestyles. When I see posts on DU that automatically assume Drugs are good, cops are bad... I think this is why it's been so easy to marginalize liberals. We sound pretty freakin' out of touch sometimes.

Meth is bad. I couldn't care less if they target those people. They're using cold medicine to illegally produce a drug that will kill, maim, and destroy lives. Guess I'm not a good liberal. :(

[Occulus]

24. you're completely missing the point

and I'm calling you on it.

The problem here that we have isn't busting meth-heads- that should happen.

What nobody at all should be willing to tolerate is being cast under suspicion for buying items that are legal and stocked on the shelf.

By buying these items which they are providing, you are labeled a potential criminal, even if you're using all of them for perfectly legitimate purposes.

What if you have four kids, all of them have colds, and you want each to use their own bottle of cold medicine so they don't cross-infect each other as easily? Legit purpose, but BOOM! you're under suspicion anyway.

Basically, they're saying "we're providing the product, but if you buy them, we're gonna examine you closely." Entrapment, plain and simple.

Our local stores do this as well, and have done for a long time. The only people the practice has netted have been people buyint the items for legit purposes. It seems as if, when it works, it's sheer luck.

By the way: corporate personhood allows this.

[northzax]

28. er, I think you are missing the point as well

the surveillance is designed to find individuals deliberatly attempting to violate the rule concerning daily limits on the purchase of cough medicine. no one is stopping the first purchase, which is perfectly allowable (I don't know if it is the law or store policy on the three bottles/day) but when the person leaves the store, changes clothing and returns to a different register, they are deliberatly flounting the rules. I don't understand why anyone would be concerned about a store protecting itself from rule violations by installing surveillance. Find me a store without surveillance cameras to protect against theft or what not.

You can argue that the three-bottle maximum is a stupid law, but it is hard to complain about the store working to comply with it.

[sendero]

25. No question....

... meth sucks. Who here doesn't know someone who got f*cked up with that stuff? I wouldn't touch the crap with a ten foot pole.

But making it illegal has done NOTHING to stop it. And setting up a police state surveillance system isn't doing much either.

[rocktivity]

26. Well, HERE'S the problem!

Bellevue police say the suspects were buying the Target brand of cold medicine. It's inexpensive and contains pseudophedrine; a key ingredient used to make methamphetamine.

If that ingredient is what they're after, and Target medicines are the only ones that contain it, they should stop stocking the product--problem solved!

rocknation

[RC]

27. Well, Duh!

How can they keep our jails and prisons full if too much common sense is used.:eyes:

[northzax]

29. no, it's not the problem

cold medicine with pseudophedrine can be very useful to the law abiding public. why prohibit them from using it, when you can prevent abusers from obtaining enough to do damage?

[veganwitch]

30. last fall, walgreens pulled

all primatine mists off the shelves. my ex called me in a panic because thats what he was taking to control his really bad asthma (did have health insurance and the OTC stuff will kill you if you take it too much). he was in the midwest. i was northern jersey.