Top US general (Richard Myers) 'hoodwinked' over aggressive interrogation

[sabra]

Source: The Guardian

The US's most senior general was "hoodwinked" by top Bush administration officials determined to push through aggressive interrogation techniques for terror suspects held at Guantánamo Bay, the Guardian can reveal.

The development led to the US military abandoning its age-old ban on the cruel and inhumane treatment of prisoners.

General Richard Myers, the chairman of the US joint chiefs of staff from 2001 to 2005, wrongly believed that inmates at Guantánamo and other prisons were protected by the Geneva conventions and from abuse tantamount to torture.

The way he was duped by senior officials in Washington - who believed the Geneva conventions and other traditional safeguards were out of date - is disclosed in a devastating account of their role, extracts from which will be published in tomorrow's Guardian.

...

"We never authorised torture, we just didn't, not what we would do," Myers said.

Sands comments: "(Myers) really had taken his eye off the ball ... he didn't ask too many questions, or inquire too deeply, and kept his distance from the decision-making process."

Read more: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/apr/18/usa.guantanamo?gusrc=rss&feed=networkfront

[niyad]

1. "hoodwinked"?? this man was in charge, it was his responsibility to know what

was going on. and if the rest of the world knew it, he certainly should have

[shraby]

2. That's what's called CYA. You're darned right

he knew. If he didn't he shouldn't have been in charge of a lemonade stand.

[saigon68]

48. "But but, I vas only followink Orders", Gen Myers

That asswipe needs to be tried as a War Criminal

[barbtries]

68. help me out please

to me CYA is the California Youth Authority. what is it here? thanks

[shraby]

71. CYA = Cover Your Ass

[barbtries]

74. thank you

:blush:
i looked it up on acronymfinder.com as well. cover your ass was number 2 after "see ya" and the california youth authority was number 4

[Lautremont]

3. "Ohh! You really got me with that one, boys!" nt

[catnhatnh]

4. I f this is true....

he should immediately resign and accuse the administation of treason.

[atreides1]

5. Too Late

He already retired.

[Ichingcarpenter]

11. Not too late for War Crimes and this is why he

is coming out blaming Mr. "Hoodwinked" which I thought was a strange choice of words


In 1562, questions like this were posed: "Will you enforce women to hoodwink themselves in the church?" So to hoodwink originally meant to literally cover someone's eyes with a hood,

[atreides1]

36. War Crimes, Right!!!

None of those responsible for any of this will even see a court room, much less be put on trial. The American people can't seem to accept the fact that the great US military is just as able to torture and kill innocents, and then try to cover it up by saying "I was following orders".

Let's not forget the excuses that have even appeared here on DU, allowing a free pass based on the conditions that military personnel find themselves in.


So the only War Crimes trials that will take place will be those done in mock courts, with non-binding results.

[fascisthunter]

6. Why Do I Not Believe Him? (nt)

[Shipwack]

32. Why you don't buy it?

Probably for the same reason I don't; he's an officer over the rank of O-3. This means a 90% chance he's incompetent at best, and a self serving ass-hole suck-up at worst. Of course, these two categories are neither mutually exclusive nor collectively exhaustive (as Jerry Pournelle once put it regarding another subject).

I agree with others in the thread, that he's playing the CYA game (how convenient that he realizes that he was duped AFTER he was retired and collecting a pension :sarcasm:). The other reason he might be opening up his mouth is that he's hurt that he didn't get a special bit of shiny-shiny pinned on his chest when he left.

Besides, even if he's telling the truth such gross incompetence and dereliction of duty is worthy of punishment in of itself.

[SlingBlade]

7. Whoa, Looks like Myers is getting worried

About an upcoming War Crimes Trial. :)

The first crack of many more to come. These rats would sell out their own Momma’s if they thought it would help.

Remember, This was Rummys Boy, He knew and he helped it along

[Ichingcarpenter]

8. Can we get some noms on this

I think it is really revealing they are beginning to scramble

[maddezmom]

10. can't wait to read the interview tomorrow

[Ichingcarpenter]

12. Hoodwinked was an odd word to use

Almost a Freudian projection. I can't wait to read it either.

[maddezmom]

21. hoodwinked - Moby Thesaurus II by Grady Ward, 1.0 :

hoodwinked - Moby Thesaurus II by Grady Ward, 1.0 :

50 Moby Thesaurus words for "hoodwinked":
Gothic, Philistine, barbarous, bedazzled, blindfold, blindfolded,
bookless, darkened, dazed, dazzled, deceived, excecate,
functionally illiterate, grammarless, heathen, ill-educated,
illiterate, led astray, lowbrow, misinformed, misinstructed,
mistaught, nonintellectual, obscured, pagan, rude, snow-blind,
snow-blinded, unbooked, unbookish, unbooklearned, unbriefed,
uncultivated, uncultured, unedified, uneducated, unerudite,
unguided, uninstructed, unintellectual, unlearned, unlettered,
unliterary, unread, unrefined, unscholarly, unschooled, unstudious,
untaught, untutored

[Ichingcarpenter]

28. I explained that the word came from putting hoods on people

it was used in the 1500s

[vssmith]

42. I like clueless

[midnight]

9. So does this let the most Senior General off the hook?

"(Myers) really had taken his eye off the ball ... he didn't ask too many questions, or inquire too deeply, and kept his distance from the decision-making process."

[formercia]

13. Getting promoted means not asking too many questions

You don't get stars by making trouble.

BFEE likes that.



Moi!?

[niyad]

14. k & r

[trthnd4jstc]

15. For the Sake of Our Lives, We Need to Improve Our Nation

Bread and Butter Issues need to be addressed immediately. The Value of the Dollar Cannot Be Counted On. Our Government needs to get more People working. This will improve our Economy!

[hootinholler]

29. And WTF does any of that have to do with this?

This story is about avoiding being taken to task. IMHO the number one thing that must be doen is to hold the current administration responsible for their crimes.

My only hope is there is no statute of limitations on war crimes.

-Hoot

[MadMaddie]

75. The Hague has no statuate they are still hunting and prosecuting

WWII war criminals. There is hope.

[SpiralHawk]

16. Another pass-the-buck republicon homelander weasel

We know you were complicit, General. And we know Commander AWOL Bush, Dickie 'Five Military Deferments' Cheney, and Condi 'Liar' Rice were at the top of the republicon homelander anti-Christian torture shit heap.

You are all guilty.

[Solly Mack]

17. LMAO

[katty]

18. hoodwinked? didn't they pick up on this like, RIGHT AWAY?!!!

gee, guys/gals, I think this is a VIOLATION of LAW!!!

[Kaleko]

19. The ususal "I didn't know what was happening" defense by top brass

[JBoy]

20. Military is usually good at avoiding being "hoodwinked" by the enemy.

His failure was in not recognizing that the enemy in this case was the Administration.

[Preston120]

22. Ignorance of the law is no excuse, The Hague will want better answers.

[lebkuchen]

23. sounds like the Nürnberg trials

I am so sorry for myself, that I have to relive this godforsaken period in history.

[nwliberalkiwi]

31. Top Two Charges at Nurmburg Trials

1. Planning to wage an aggressive war.

2. Wagging an agressive war.

They are all international criminals. Just remember General Meyers that they hung Generals Kietal and Jodl at midnight for just following orders!!!
Although I'm against the death penelty, I would spring the trap door on these scum!!!

[Barb in Atl]

24. Doesn't Karpinski yank that cover off his a**?

I thought Karpinski, the one they tried to pin Abu Ghraib to, said that the harsh interrogations and such didn't start until Myers showed up from Gitmo.

She's got more credibility than Myers, at least for me.

[NYC]

51. Wasn't it Geoffrey Miller?

The one who showed up from Guantanamo?

[Barb in Atl]

73. Maybe - I'll have to check. Thanks. n/t

[Ichingcarpenter]

25. Gen. Myers, stand down NORAD on 911

http://www.911truth.org/article.php?story=20040814220906511
http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/071204_final_fraud.shtml

[librechik]

33. thanks for those transcripts--sure puts things in perspective

in his case hoodwinked is a slander against winks and hoods

[Kaleko]

43. OMG, those links are a must read for anyone

who believes they know what's going on.

Thanks for digging those up, Ichingcarpenter.

[barbtries]

70. the article on 911 truth was enlightening

and disgusting.

[rateyes]

26. I call bullshit.

Myers is up to his neck in this, IMO.

[Loki]

27. Excuse the following profanity.

General Myers, you are just another fucking liar from this fucking incompetent administration.

[Middle finga]

30. Come on now General, I can understand that kind of excuse coming

from soldiers in the field but you was head of our entire military, the head honcho. So that excuse will not fly at the Hague baby.

[Jack Rabbit]

34. Thanks for posting

Once again, we rely on the British press to find out what's happening in America.

That's a pointed observation to close out a week when George and Charlie turned a presidential debate into tabloid television.

[greiner3]

35. And how did Myers get to be a general, hmmmm?

[LynnTheDem]

37. Suddenly the thought of standing in the dock for war crimes doesn't appeal?

"hoodwinked" my ass.

[BlooInBloo]

38. Lying or stupid, he needs to be canned.

[pleah]

39. This guy couldn't lie his way out of a paper bag.

He will never make through a trial if that is the best he can come up with.:eyes:

[rhett o rick]

40. He is going to use the "I was hoodwinked" defense. I think the Demo's that supported the Iraq

War also used that defense.

[paulthompson]

41. This is BS!

If you want to know what Myers really knew about torture, just go watch his testimony sitting next to Rumsfeld before Congress in the days just after the Abu Ghraib scandal broke. I saw that recently in an Abu Ghraib documentary. Both of them repeatedly look at each other and smirk as they repeatedly claim not to know anything about anything. They actually look to be having fun, like they're enjoying pulling the wool over Congress' eyes. It really got me steamed.

Hoodwinked, my ass. Myers deliberately tried to remain out of the loop on certain things to save his own rear end.

Here are a couple of entries from the torture timeline relating to his Abu Ghraib testimony with Rumsfeld:


May 6, 2004: Rumsfeld and Other Top Military Officials Seem to Be Deliberately Ignorant of Abu Ghraib Abuse
Maj. Gen. Antonio Taguba, author of a hard-hitting report on Abu Ghraib prison abuse, is summoned to meet Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld for the first time. Rumsfeld is scheduled to testify about Abu Ghraib before Congress the next day (see May 7, 2004). Also attending the meeting is Deputy Defense Secretary Paul Wolfowitz, Under-Secretary of Defense for Intelligence Stephen Cambone, Joint Chiefs of Staff Chairman Gen. Richard Myers, Army chief of staff Gen. Peter Schoomaker, Rumsfeld’s senior military assistant Lt. Gen. Bantz Craddock, and others. According to Taguba, when he walks in, Rumsfeld declares in a mocking voice, “Here… comes… that famous General Taguba—of the Taguba report!” Asked if there was torture at Abu Ghraib, Taguba recalls, “I described a naked detainee lying on the wet floor, handcuffed, with an interrogator shoving things up his rectum, and said, ‘That’s not abuse. That’s torture.’ There was quiet.” Rumsfeld asks who leaked Taguba’s report to the public, but Taguba says he doesn’t know. Rumsfeld then complains that he has not seen a copy of his report or the Abu Ghraib abuse photographs and yet he has to testify to Congress tomorrow. Taguba is incredulous, because he sent over a dozen copies of his report to the Pentagon and Central Command headquarters, and had just spent several weeks briefing senior military leaders about it. He also was aware that Rumsfeld, Myers, Craddock, and others were notified about the abuse and the photographs back in January, before Taguba even began his investigation (see January 15-20, 2004). Taguba will later suspect that the military leaders were trying to remain ignorant of the scandal to avoid responsibility and accountability. For instance, when Taguba urged one lieutenant general to look at the photographs, he got the reply, "I don't want to get involved by looking, because what do you do with that information, once you know what they show?" Taguba will later complain of the meeting, “I thought they wanted to know. I assumed they wanted to know. I was ignorant of the setting.” (New Yorker, 6/17/2007)


May 7, 2004: Rumsfeld Falsely Testifies He Was Unaware of Abu Ghraib Photos and Abuses

In public testimony under oath before the Senate and the House Armed Services Committees, Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld claims he had no early knowledge of the Abu Ghraib detainee abuse. He says, “It breaks our hearts that in fact someone didn’t say, ‘Wait, look, this is terrible. We need to do something.’ I wish we had known more, sooner, and been able to tell you more sooner, but we didn’t.” He claims that when reports about the hard-hitting Taguba report on Abu Ghraib (see February 26, 2004) first appeared publicly just days before his testimony, “it was not yet in the Pentagon, to my knowledge.” Regarding the shocking Abu Ghraib photos, seen by millions on the television program 60 Minutes on April 28 (see Evening April 28, 2004), Rumsfeld claims, “I say no one in the Pentagon had seen them.” He adds that “I didn’t see them until last night at 7:30.” Asked when he’d first heard of them, he replies, “There were rumors of photographs in a criminal prosecution chain back sometime after January 13th… I don’t remember precisely when, but sometime in that period of January, February, March.… The legal part of it was proceeding along fine. What wasn’t proceeding along fine is the fact that the President didn’t know, and you didn’t know, and I didn’t know. And, as a result, somebody just sent a secret report to the press, and there they are.” But General Richard Myers, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, will later acknowledge in testimony that just days after the photos were given to US Army investigators on January 13, information had been given “to me and the Secretary up through the chain of command.… And the general nature of the photos, about nudity, some mock sexual acts and other abuse, was described” (see January 15-20, 2004). Major General Antonio M. Taguba, author of the Taguba report, will later claim that he was appalled by Rumfeld’s testimony. “The photographs were available to him—if he wanted to see them.… He’s trying to acquit himself, and a lot of people are lying to protect themselves.” Congressman Kendrick Meek (D) will later comment, “There was no way Rumsfeld didn’t know what was going on. He’s a guy who wants to know everything, and what he was giving us was hard to believe.” (New Yorker, 6/17/2007)

http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/searchResults.jsp?searchtext=myers+ghraib&events=on&entities=on&articles=on&topics=on&timelines=on&projects=on&titles=on&descriptions=on&dosearch=on&search=Go

[defendandprotect]

44. Myers is also a prime suspect re 9/11 . . .

[maddezmom]

45. EXCERPT is UP @ The Guardian: Stress hooding noise nudity dogs

~snip~

Hill's memo reached General Dick Myers, chairman of the joint chiefs of staff, the most senior person in the US armed forces, on October 25 2002. "There was a sense of urgency that in my 40 years of military experience hadn't existed in other contingencies," he explained when we met. There was the real fear that one of the detainees may know when the next attack would happen, and that they would miss vital information.

The first big decision was Geneva. For historic, cultural and training reasons, Myers insisted that the Geneva conventions should apply, even to a rogue, lawless actor such as al-Qaida. It became clear to me that Myers was a little confused about the decision that was actually taken. He claimed to be satisfied with the president's decision of February 7 2002. "After all the arguments were done, the decision was, we don't think it applies in a technical sense, but we're going to behave as if it does." That wasn't what the president decided.

The actual decision distinguished between the Taliban - to whom Geneva applied, although detainees could not invoke rights under it because they were not wearing uniforms or insignia - and al-Qaida, to whom it didn't apply at all because they were not a state. Had Myers understood what had been decided? Did he appreciate the consequences for interrogation techniques? If the chairman of the joint chiefs of staff was confused, then inevitably soldiers in the field would also be confused. As one seasoned observer of military affairs put it to me, Myers was "well and truly hoodwinked".

So what did Myers think about the new techniques? "We thought, OK, all the techniques came out of the book, there weren't any techniques invented." I stopped him.

"Out of which book?" I asked.

more:http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/apr/19/humanrights.interrogationtechniques?gusrc=rss&feed=politics


and started a thread in GD:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x3177765

[muriel_volestrangler]

46. And they took torture ideas from Jack Bauer in '24'

:banghead:

[jeff30997]

47. "the US military abandoning its age-old ban on the cruel and inhumane treatment of prisoners"

Yeah,right,age old ban my ass.So no Vietnamese were ever tortured and/or executed? Not a single North Korean either?Or Panamanian for getting the CIA paid Noriega in '89? Well in that case I apologize for being so cynical.

[saigon68]

49. They did that stuff then, the difference now it is

A systematic process of Torture, Murder and Degradation done on a global scale by more that a few bored troops.

Its systematic torture for religious and monetary reasons

[jeff30997]

54. It was systematic in Vietnam for ideological reasons.

But the job was mostly done by the CIA:

Beheading, Hooding, and Waterboarding: CIA Torture in Vietnam, Latin America, and Iraq.

In 1966 the CIA launched the Phoenix Project, a program designed to destroy the South Vietnamese Communists, better known as the Viet Cong. Specially designed torture chambers were constructed in all 44 provinces and rape of women suspects, electric shock, water torture, and hanging from ceilings were standard methods during interrogations.

Of the tens of thousands of South Vietnamese detained, at least 20,000 were summarily executed. Copying a Viet Cong practice, the severed heads of those executed were frequently displayed in the villages. Even more common was collecting the ears of dead Communist troops.

...

In his book "A Question of Torture," Alfred McCoy demonstrates that the CIA developed "no touch torture, based on sensory deprivation and self-inflicted pain." These techniques were "field-tested . . . in Vietnam . . . and then imported to Latin American and Asia under the guise of police training."

...

In his article "Abu Ghraib: The Rule, Not the Exception," Dr. Miles Schuman, who has personally examined torture victims from Latin America, states that “the black hood covering the faces of naked prisoners . . . was known as la capuchi in Guatemalan and Salvadoran torture chambers." Contrary to initial impressions, the soldiers at Abu Ghraib evidently did not make up these techniques on their own. Filming the torture sessions was also not new.

...

Very interesting article.They also talk about Bush senior:

"In 1975 CIA director George Bush, Sr. had already set up the Latin American equivalent of the Phoenix Project. Called "Plan Condor" the CIA enlisted the services of Cuban exiles and the deadly Chilean DINA to orchestrate the torture and assassination of leftist leaders. Under this program Latin American military rulers tortured and "disappeared" thousands of their opponents.
"


http://www.newwest.net/index.php/main/article/9930/

[Usrename]

50. This should all be thoroughly hashed out during his trial.

I don't think the "hoodwinked" excuse has any legal merit at all. Not if the Nuremberg principles apply.

[tabasco]

52. Myers already working on his war crimes defense.

Good idea there, traitor!

You deserve a long hitch, if not life, you gutless POS.

[Stinky The Clown]

53. Little Dickie Myers .... cry me a fucking river you sycophantic asskisser

This is the guy who licked Rummy's ass daily.

Who cares what he thinks.

[jeff30997]

56. "This is the guy who licked Rummy's ass daily."

Now I know why is nickname is Brown-tongue.

[grasswire]

55. the Colonel Klink defense

I know nossing. I see nossing.

Pfffft.

[Usrename]

57. How can they find so many delusional criminals to participate?

"... Dunlavey had no doubts about his identity or the threat he posed: al-Qahtani was the 20th hijacker on September 11. (How many "20th hijackers" are there, I asked, alluding to Zacarias Moussaoui, who'd recently been convicted. Dunlavey smiled.) "This guy may have been the key to the survival of the US," he told me. ..."



This guy actually thinks that US can only survive by torturing some guy. I think he really believes that.

WTF is wrong with these people? Let the war crimes tribunals begin.

[maddezmom]

58. Top Bush aides pushed for Guantánamo torture(Sr officials bypassed Myers ...)

Source: The Guardian

Senior officials bypassed army chief to introduce interrogation methods

America's most senior general was "hoodwinked" by top Bush administration officials determined to push through aggressive interrogation techniques of terror suspects held at Guantánamo Bay, leading to the US military abandoning its age-old ban on the cruel and inhumane treatment of prisoners, the Guardian reveals today.

General Richard Myers, chairman of the US joint chiefs of staff from 2001 to 2005, wrongly believed that inmates at Guantánamo and other prisons were protected by the Geneva conventions and from abuse tantamount to torture.

The way he was duped by senior officials in Washington, who believed the Geneva conventions and other traditional safeguards were out of date, is disclosed in a devastating account of their role, extracts of which appear in today's Guardian.

In his new book, Torture Team, Philippe Sands QC, professor of law at University College London, reveals that:



Read more: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/apr/19/guantanamo.usa

---

The Green Light: Attorney Philippe Sands Follows the Bush Administration Torture Trail
A new exposé in Vanity Fair by British attorney Philippe Sands reveals new details about how attorney John Yoo and other high-ranking administration lawyers helped design and implement the interrogation policies seen at Guantanamo, Abu Ghraib and secret CIA prisons. According to Vanity Fair, then-White House counsel Alberto Gonzales and other top officials personally visited Guantanamo in 2002, discussed interrogation techniques and witnessed interrogations. Sands joins us in our firehouse studio.

more:http://i3.democracynow.org/2008/4/3/the_green_light_attorney_philippe_sands

[mediaman007]

59. The last four paragraphs of the article gave me hope:

Larry Wilkerson, a former army officer and chief of staff to Colin Powell, US secretary of state at the time, told the Guardian: "I do know that Rumsfeld had neutralised the chairman in many significant ways.

"The secretary did this by cutting out of important communications, meetings, deliberations and plans.

"At the end of the day, however, Dick Myers was not a very powerful chairman in the first place, one reason Rumsfeld recommended him for the job".

He added: "Haynes, Feith, Yoo, Bybee, Gonzalez and - at the apex - Addington, should never travel outside the US, except perhaps to Saudi Arabia and Israel. They broke the law; they violated their professional ethical code. In future, some government may build the case necessary to prosecute them in a foreign court, or in an international court."



Perhaps they will be at risk in this country too!

[MadMaddie]

60. When the Hague arrests them I will raise my glass!

They willingly broke the law and they should be shaking in their boots. Nazi's from WWII are still being hunted down to this day....

[elleng]

61. The fact that they ARE probably shaking in their boots

causes me great concern, because THEY WILL DO ANYTHING TO AVOID THE CONSEQUENCES OF THEIR ILLEGAL ACTS, and that INCLUDES STEALING ANOTHER ELECTION.

There must be NO COMPLACENCY on Dems parts.

[MadMaddie]

62. You are right

If the Dems are smart they start the investigations but they don't pursue charges until after the election that way there will be no Scooter L type pardons..

NO COMPLACENCY on Dems parts!!!

[Kaleko]

63. Duplicate post

except for the last para and second link.

See this thread: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=3273906&mesg_id=3273906

:hi:

[gratuitous]

64. Apropos of nothing in particular

There's no statute of limitations on war crimes or crimes against humanity.

[jeff30997]

65. I hope to see them all on trial in my lifetime but...

I'm 41 and I have no patience.

[lovuian]

66. he followed orders even though they were against

International law

he doesn't have an excuse

[tanyev]

67. Yeah, and his niece Julie was hoodwinked by the employee

who showed up for a Halloween party in an offensive costume. So hoodwinked that she awarded him a prize.

[JerseygirlCT]

69. Just the kind of guy the Bush admin wants:

don't pay too much attention, just do as you're told.

Any amount of "hoodwinked" doesn't let him off the hook, IMO.

[acmavm]

72. And another one writes a book blaming everyone else and trying to

make everyone believe that he's just the proverbial innocent bystander. Just some poor schmoo who was in the wrong place/job at the wrong time.