Feds to collect DNA from every person they arrest

[maddezmom]

Source: AP

WASHINGTON - The government plans to begin collecting DNA samples from anyone arrested by a federal law enforcement agency — a move intended to prevent violent crime but which also is raising concerns about the privacy of innocent people.

Using authority granted by Congress, the government also plans to collect DNA samples from foreigners who are detained, whether they have been charged or not. The DNA would be collected through a cheek swab, Justice Department spokesman Erik Ablin said Wednesday. That would be a departure from current practice, which limits DNA collection to convicted felons.

Expanding the DNA database, known as CODIS, raises civil liberties questions about the potential for misuse of such personal information, such as family ties and genetic conditions.

Ablin said the DNA collection would be subject to the same privacy laws applied to current DNA sampling. That means none of it would be used for identifying genetic traits, diseases or disorders.



Read more: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080416/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/dna_collection;_ylt=AuY0PvQ9pUDTJoS2wv8oXKwD5gcF

[lovuian]

1. is this legal?

I know they fingerprint people but whats up with the DNA???

What about children being arrested and their DNA taken???

[maddezmom]

7. I was surprised when I saw this as well, must have taken a few days off in a news cycle or something

Congress gave the Justice Department the authority to expand DNA collection in two different laws passed in 2005 and 2006.

[KansDem]

20. The sample is taken through a cheek swab

You know, fingerprints are one thing. Perhaps we don't have a right to privacy with regard to fingerprints because we leave them everywhere. But I would think a "cheek swab" is invasionary and therefore illegal under the Fourth Amendment.

But then, I'm not a lawyer--Constitutional or otherwise. :shrug:

[AZ Criminal JD]

26. The Fourth Amendment protects against "unreasonable" search

Presumably it would be unreasonable to collect from persons not arrested but this is from people who have been arrested. That would be considered reasonable.

[oedura]

38. Good thing nobody's ever been...

...falsely arrested, huh?

[AZ Criminal JD]

47. That is not the standard that courts use in Fourth Amendment cases.

It is probable cause.

[lovuian]

49. exactly

Amazing

[truebrit71]

46. No. but that won't matter...It's just the 4th amendment..

...you know, a piece of "goddamnded paper"...:eyes:

[villager]

2. let's see, and "Real I.D." is coming, too, eh. Weren't the GOP-supporting Fundies the ones

...worried about the "mark of the beast" everywhere? We're all slated to be "marked," eh?

Sooner or later.

[sasquatch]

3. Why the avatar of Rorshach?

:shrug:
Isn't he a right winger?

[villager]

40. I just like how he never believed the "official story" about anything...

Hurm!

;-)

[OKthatsIT]

4. DNA must be destroyed if found innocent, right?

The FBI isn't to be trusted with anything.

[RaleighNCDUer]

36. TIA.

Everybody will have a permanent file. That's the whole idea.

[OKthatsIT]

50. I heard State Troopers in Texas are swabbing motorists for...

broken tail lights. Traffic tickets count, too.

[Thothmes]

54. Do they destroy your finger prints if you are found innocent.

[sasquatch]

5. Authoritarian thugs

People wonder why no one has respect for authority figures anymore.

[Lost-in-FL]

6. What for?

So they can ignore more data?

[Xenocrates]

8. Once they start collecting..

You realize that once the prisoners lose their privacy with DNA sampling, everyone will lose it. They'll start collecting it from newborns, people applying for passports, even when you get your chloresterol checked.

Its already starting..

[bluesmail]

9. They may already have our DNA

Health Insurance Co's...I read where a bill passed recently that would OK a DNA database, all * needs to do is put his pen to it. Sorry I'm details sketchy, it was on a bulletin board where I get coffee. Preparing for the day someone blows the whistle on them, they have now legitimized it.

[StudentThinker]

10. Another really disturbing thing this raises,

among many disturbing things, is the potential for deliberate misuse.

Think about the crap that gets pulled in normal criminal cases already. LE officials planting evidence and so on. Think about what they could do with your DNA. Then think about DHS having your DNA and your phone and internet records. Very creepy. Especially in light of Chertoff's views on fingerprints.

Say they take your DNA, and months later you get flagged for making anti-administration comments on a blog or something. Say for whatever reason they decide you're a threat (or just want to make an example of someone, and you get lucky.) Can you say frame-up? My god. Once I would have said this is paranoia; now I'd rather not put that to the test.

And if you're a Muslim or a Middle-Eastern-looking person, don't go through US airports anymore. They may detain everyone who "looks suspicious," take your DNA, and do god knows what with it. For myself, I'm getting out asap.

IMPEACH THEM NOW. And dismantle the National Security state before it's set in blast-proof hardened concrete with more crap like this.

[lonestarnot]

19. and all the missing "laptops" and whatnot. Fuck 'em!

[lostnfound]

23. Definitely. Will be planted as evidence anytime they want to frame someone

and perhaps it will eventually make it meaningless as a tool for legitimate law enforcement, because of the difficulty in detecting planted evidence.

[razors edge]

33. Exactly.

They are going to screw the pooch with this one.

Is it time for 1776 solution yet?

[zonmoy]

44. might be too late for any solution!!!!!

[mitchum]

56. It's time for the 1789 - 1793 solution

[razors edge]

58. I got your back brother. n/t

[KSinTX]

11. The line of the AP story for me:

"Now innocent people's DNA will be put into this huge CODIS database, and it will be very difficult for them to get it out if they are not charged or convicted of a crime," McCurdy said.

This seems to be saying that none of this is based on the commission of a crime, merely the arrest or suspicion; so, you're already guilty of being arrested and the DNA stays in CODIS because you have to ASK Homeland Security to remove it, which connotes they don't have to. Neat trick. We have a similar law here in Texas, but they HAVE to destroy samples if there's no conviction. Allegedly.

[AzDar]

12. No. Hell, NO.

:mad:

[MADem]

13. Well....... they've been doing that for years to innocent people....

who enlist.

[Name removed]

14. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[MADem]

18. GO BACK ..... and READ WHAT I FUCKING WROTE.

We aren't supposed to call people idiots on this forum, so I won't call you one. I might think it, though.

Now go back and read the WHOLE FUCKING POST, now--not just the subject line, you artless skimmer.

Slowly.

EVERY word.

Including the word "enlist." The people in YOUR red state who join the military have their DNA taken by the Federal Government. And they're quite innocent of any wrongdoing, too. So see, you're fucking WRONG.

Put the entire message into CONTEXT, now.

GOT IT????

I'll take your apology anytime.


Reading comprehension, my ass!

[saigon68]

34. OOPs looks like sweet brad must have

Pissed someone off.and only 13 posts

[MADem]

52. Jesus, the joint is THICK with them! Wonder what his "new" name is?

We've gotta figure he's already back....unless he already has a few handy sockpuppets already available.

I really wish they'd do an IP address comparison with some of these clowns and do a nice clear-out.

[saigon68]

55. No that's apparently just part of

The Sport of it All !! :-)

[Lochloosa]

57. That would violate his 4th Admendment rights.

:evilgrin:

[madmusic]

24. Don't tread on the Bill of Rights

I don't care what your excuse is.

[Political Heretic]

15. Convicted, maybe. Arrested? No. Arrested and Convicted are NOT the same, no matter how much

the government wants to act like they are.

[Art_from_Ark]

51. Remember Edwin Meese,

Ray-gun's flunky who was occupant of the attorney general's office in the '80s?

"Of course suspects are guilty. Otherwise, they wouldn't be suspects!" :banghead:

[Robb]

16. I would think this would be challenged on 4th amendment grounds

...Could be argued no matter how small, a "sample" has tangibility in a way a fingerprint does not. :shrug:

[tbyg52]

21. I sure hope so

I know they wouldn't be getting mine with a fight or a warrant.

[AZ Criminal JD]

27. This is water under the bridge

Courts have long held body fluids and substances can be collected. Witness blood and urine samples for people arrested for DUI.

[KamaAina]

17. Even if they're not charged?!

"Ihre DNA, bitte!"

[madmusic]

31. What about this?

Lawyers Fight DNA Samples Gained on Sly

By AMY HARMON
Published: April 3, 2008

The two Sacramento sheriff detectives tailed their suspect, Rolando Gallego, at a distance. They did not have a court order to compel him to give a DNA sample, but their assignment was to get one anyway — without his knowledge.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/03/science/03dna.html

If he was innocent, would the government have destroyed the sample or the testing? Why not keep it? Just in case.

[bonito]

22. And to be sure linking with the Genome Project

Identifying DNA lineage will be used.

On edit, Seems to be a 4th amendment issue another FISA remedy, if you have a serial killer on the loose and unknown dna and have a suspect let a Judge decide weighing the 4th amendment of the peoples Constitution vs the safety of the next victim,and not another wholesale example of data mining by Corporate and Government entities that are much aligned, not a bad thing imo except where the individual rights of the Citizen,the major party, are infringed.

It must be always clear that the Government is to serve the people and not the other way around.

[madmusic]

29. Crime is only the excuse

And people are starting to see the government can't be trusted that much. It already tried once.

Davis' apology did not propose reparations or other compensation to the victims or their families.

Lombardo said it would be difficult for survivors to collect damages in a lawsuit against the government because the Supreme Court had upheld the constitutionality of forced sterilization in 1927.

He told the hearing of the Select Committee on Genetics, Genetic Technologies and Public Policy that Adolf Hitler's Third Reich borrowed generously from U.S. laws when it imposed forced sterilization on "undesirables."

http://www.planbeta.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=107&Itemid=67

[Yukari Yakumo]

25. And this is a problem... how?

The PoPo collects your fingerprints if they haul you to the lockup. How is this any different?

This is just an evolution of forensics. This is not a fight we should get involved in.

[madmusic]

30. Your faith in the government may be admirable to some

But it's misplaced.

http://www.ornl.gov/sci/techresources/Human_Genome/elsi/elsi.shtml

[psychmommy]

28. anyone convicted of a felony in nj must provide a dna sample.

here is the kicker-they made it retroactive. so if you were on probation, parole, in prison or county jail when the law got passed you had to submit dna. there is a case pending-i haven't heard the outcome yet.

[DaveJ]

32. This stuff inivitably becomes public record

When driver's licenses were invented, we probably didn't think others would be able to access our drivers license numbers. Now they can as long as they are willing to pay an internet search company $40. This gives everyone an entire history of our residences, financial history, legal trouble, etc.

Add onto that DNA, and now anyone can know our genetic makeup as well.

Just as with urine tests, you know employers will eventually use the info. Skip the interview. Then we've got a society on our hands similar to the one in the movie Gattaca.

[Lint Head]

35. Another nail in liberty's coffin. We are living a nightmare that is

getting worse daily. Fascism is our enemy and it is here. :dem:

[Dukkha]

37. they can take my DNA from my blood

when I spit it into their eye!

[radhika]

39. From Conspiracy Corner, I submit

This is more profound than fingerprints and electronic surveillance records. It is a map of an organism and its strengths and weaknesses. 'They' - either the current BushCo neo-con THEY or a future mega fascistic hi-tech THEY can track bloodlines, detect weaknesses or characteristics in selected population groups, can design drugs and interventions to selectively target individuals with certain markers. I gather from this board, that this type of discourse is avoided or derided, but if you've ever worked in bio-tech or security, you know that the weapons of the future are bio-specific and sensing devices are being so trained.

It's likely been around for a while in black ops, but now all that remains is to fully populate the databases with the blood of real humans.

[jberryhill]

41. They can't "track bloodlines" from birth certificates? /nt

[Occulus]

43. Not really conspiracy. The flagship PNAC document acknowledges that very idea. n/t

[Name removed]

45. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[LynnTheDem]

42. "...America, where at least I know I'm free..."

[kestrel91316]

48. We need to find a way to get these snooping busybodies busy where

they're really needed - sorting out all the parent-child relationships down in Texas at the FLDS fiasco........

[Snarkturian Clone]

53. THIS is some BULLSHIT!!!!!!!!!!

When Alex Jones correctly predicts something, I flip my fuckin' lid!!!

Someone should check the copies of the constition that are on display... because they must be crying right about now.