Midlife Suicide Rises, Puzzling Researchers

[shireen]

Source: New York Times

Shannon Neal can instantly tell you the best night of her life: Tuesday, Dec. 23, 2003, the Hinsdale Academy debutante ball. Her father, Steven Neal, a 54-year-old political columnist for The Chicago Sun-Times, was in his tux, white gloves and tie. “My dad walked me down and took a little bow,” she said, and then the two of them goofed it up on the dance floor as they laughed and laughed.

A few weeks later, Mr. Neal parked his car in his garage, turned on the motor and waited until carbon monoxide filled the enclosed space and took his breath, and his life, away.

Later, his wife, Susan, would recall that he had just finished a new book, his seventh, and that “it took a lot out of him.” His medication was also taking a toll, putting him in the hospital overnight with worries about his heart.

Still, those who knew him were blindsided. “If I had just 30 seconds with him now,” Ms. Neal said of her father, “I would want all these answers.”

Read more: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/19/us/19suicide.html

---

"suicide rate among 45-to-54-year-olds increased nearly 20 percent from 1999 to 2004, "

interesting overlap ....

[nebula]

1. Legal drugs are more deadly than the illegal ones

Nov. 2004

The FDA in March 2004 issued a warning for Zoloft and other antidepressants, stating that the drug can cause suicide and violence in children and teenagers. This FDA public health advisory places doctors, patients and families on notice to be particularly vigilant for signs of worsening depression or suicide thoughts at the beginning of anti-depressant therapy or whenever the dose is changed.

The drugs listed in the FDA warning are all newer antidepressants: Prozac, Paxil, Zoloft, Effexor, Celexa, Remeron, Lexapro, Luvox, Serzone and Wellbutrin.

The FDA action follows Britain's version of the FDA citing in December 2003 evidence of a twofold to threefold increase risk of suicide and suicidal thinking in children and adolescents with the SSRI drugs like Zoloft .

These two agency actions follow 16 years of long-standing controversy about the possibility that SSRI antidepressants like Zoloft might induce suicide tendencies in some patients. Reports of unusual and severe reactions with SSRIs began shortly after Prozac, the first SSRI, was introduced in 1988.

In 1990 two Harvard researchers and psychiatrists published an article entitled: “Emergence of Intense Suicidal Preoccupation During Fluoxetine Treatment.” This article, which appeared in the American Journal of Psychiatry reported that persistent, obsessive, and violent suicidal thoughts emerged in a minority of patients treated with fluoxetine (Prozac).

Yale psychiatrist Dr. Robert A. King researched SSRI-induced suicide risk in1991. His peer-reviewed article, “Emergence of Self-Destructive Phenomena in Children and Adolescents during Fluoxetine Treatment,” stated that “self-injurious ideation or behavior appeared de novo or intensified during fluoxetine (Prozac) treatment.”

SSRI manufacturers and the medical community have been aware that SSRIs can cause people to kill themselves for a long time. Despite the numerous studies linking increased suicide risk with SSRIs like Zoloft , drug manufacturers continued to refute these claims.

As the suicide debate bubbles, so does the debate among doctors and researchers about the effectiveness of SSRIs like Zoloft .

Most studies find that SSRIs are no more effective in fighting teenage depression than sugar pills. Even in adults, SSRIs have been found to offer only modest benefits. In about half of all adult tests, the drugs prove no more effective than placebos.

www.ahrp.org/infomail/04/11/01.php

[melody]

18. I'd be dead now without SSRIs

This is just more cherry-picking of studies by people who don't understand the disease we're
discussing and don't know how disabling it is on all levels.

[olddad56]

20. SSRI's have helped a lot of people. That isn't to say that pot isn't a better anti-depressant.

[melody]

21. It's also illegal n/t

[PassingFair]

31. That isn't to say that it shouldn't be. n/t

[Pastiche423]

36. Not in my state

We have a Medical Marijuana law here. So Does California.

[melody]

57. I'm in California

Even so, I don't smoke tobacco ... I'm reluctant to inhale anything like that unless there's no
other alternative. It's also very difficult to get.

[Pastiche423]

58. Then, don't inhale

:eyes:

[melody]

59. Didn't work out very well for Bill lol n/t

[Pastiche423]

64. Was that supposed to be funny?

I have violent spasms due to paralysis. I have tried many meds to make them cease so that I can sleep. None of them worked. So I tried marijuana, smoked at bedtime. It not only works, but does not have nasty side effects. Another perk is that my liver is very healthy.

[melody]

68. It was a joke to the last post ... I have 2 good friends to whom med marijuana were godsends

I was just trying to bow out gracefully from a proselytizing thread.

I understand the need for any medication that isn't liver toxic -- if we're going to reach for indignation,
I'll point out my mom died from liver disease when I was a teenager. I don't tell anyone to use SSRIs -- I
just say they work for me. Everyone has to make their own medical choices.

[daleo]

24. SSRIs are now being pushed for a lot of minor conditions, though

For moderate to severe depression, they probably do more good than harm. But they are being given for fairly minor conditions now (e.g. premature ejaculation, social anxiety disorder), in which case the elevated suicide risk outweighs the good.

[melody]

29. Why always the targeting of anti-depressants -- there are other medications with severe side effects

This fixation on anti-depressants seems to be as big a problem. Would we feel the same way about a new type of insulin
that saved diabetics?

Yes, there may be overprescription problems, but the fact of the matter is that people who do what these
people have done (kill themselves, kill others) have emotional issues in the first place. It's very hard
to determine where cause and effect start and end.

I would take any anti-depressant, even with severe side effects, if it would completely address all of my
depression. Depression is a very bad, disabling disease. It kills all on its own.

[daleo]

32. A nephew committed suicide about 3 months ago

He was taking these medications for a minor condition (if a condition at all) - social anxiety disorder, previously known as shyness. The same weekend a sister-in-law attempted, but pulled back from the brink - she was on SSRIs too. She was on medication for anxiety, but her real problem is an abusive husband.

I very much doubt the young man would be dead today, but for the medications. They have their place, but they are now being pushed far too much, for conditions that don't really require medication.

Consider the insulin example. Yes, I would support it for treatment of diabetes, but if it began being prescribed for weight loss, I wouldn't. That's what has happened to SSRIs - they have begun to be prescribed for less and less serious conditions as the years have gone by. That increases drug company profits.

[melody]

33. I'm very sorry for your loss, but again I think the issue is overprescription

... not prescribing them at all. "Social anxiety disorder" (shyness) can be crippling, as I've said. I have a friend who hadn't spoken to a stranger directly in thirty years for this reason.

I certainly don't think anything as powerful as an SSRI should be administered to anyone who doesn't need it.
The reason they are so effective is that they're so powerful. There will always be some risk associated with
medications such as this.

[daleo]

39. I don't think we are really disagreeing

Essentially, it is over-prescription I am concerned with as well.

Granted, shyness can be crippling, but his problem was not anything like your friend's. He shared an apartment with his girlfriend, he had completed university, he had a part-time job, and he was studying full-time. The suicide came completely out of the blue (no attempts, no known history of suicidal thoughts), as is often the case with the SSRI related suicides.

The risk needs to be considered in light of the benefits - in many cases (such as your's I presume) the benefits outweigh the risks. In many other cases, that doesn't seem to be the case. Doctors and drug companies have perhaps become a little too cavalier about these powerful drugs. There is a lot of money at stake.

[conflictgirl]

35. Antidepressants can induce suicidal thoughts in people

I've dealt with depression for my entire life but am not prone to suicidal thinking. But I've tried a couple of SSRIs that induced suicidal ideation in me within a week of taking it - and with one that was particularly severe (Lexapro) when I called my doctor to mention my concern over this side effect, she said it wasn't possible and wanted me to DOUBLE my dose so that it would start working sooner! There was no way I was going to double my dose when the smallest possible dose already had me thinking I would be better off dead, when I definitely did not feel that way before I started taking it. It scares me to think of how many people have followed advice like that and then went on to kill themselves or others, only to have it dismissed because obviously they had problems in the first place. If I had doubled my dose and that had been enough to remove my ability to realize what the med was doing to me and I followed through on my sudden desire to kill myself, no one would have thought it was because of the medication, they would've thought it was because of the pre-existing depression. But even my husband noticed that my suicidal thoughts began with that med and I didn't feel that way beforehand. I feel lucky that he was paying attention!

I do agree with you that depression is a very disabling disease and I understand better than anyone how much a good treatment for it is necessary. If SSRIs work to help people with depression, that's great and I would never say that they shouldn't take it. But I also think that too many people underestimate the risk of these medications and fail to acknowledge that sometimes the meds can actually make people worse.

The difference between diabetes and depression is not that one disease is more serious than the other. The difference is that it is proven, conclusively, that insulin regulates blood sugar and therefore taking insulin treats diabetes. It has not been similarly proven that a lack of serotonin is what causes depression and therefore an SSRI medication fixes that imbalance. It's still just a theory at best and the results of such studies have unfortunately not been overwhelmingly strong in favor of the meds. It's clear that people with depression need and deserve treatment, but just not as clear that the current meds on the market are the type of treatment that such people need.

[melody]

37. The crucial comparison I was making is that major depression is as physical a disease as diabetes

We tend to treat it (at least some of those who've never suffered it tend to) as a "it's all in your mind" kind of thing.
That we'd be okay if we just pulled ourselves up by our bootstraps, not realizing we were born without bootstraps.

Anyone who is on an SSRI should be seeing a psychiatrist, should have major depression (and not merely situational), and
should understand how powerful these medications are. What is right for one person will not work in another. It's impossible
to determine that Lexapro WILL cause suicidal thinking in ALL patients. Some people got that response from Zoloft -- I was on
it with great success for thirteen years until it quit working and I had to change meds.

[conflictgirl]

40. I do agree with that

I do agree that some people think depression is something that people "just need to snap out of". I've suffered major depression and have felt pretty desperate for a cure. I've tried every single SSRI and not a single one has helped me. I think probably the only thing I object to is the idea that everyone will be helped by an SSRI if they just keep trying. As I said, I've tried every single one, and none made me feel better and some made me feel much, much worse. I know that some people are greatly helped by them and they shouldn't be discouraged from trying them just because they or others have had bad experiences of various meds. I'm glad Zoloft worked well for you for so long and I kept trying so many different meds for years because I was hoping for similar results from *something*.

At the same time, I also worry about how Big Pharma is promoting these meds though, because I think the drug manufacturers themselves are downplaying the risks significantly and passing the same wrong information to providers. I was seeing a psychiatrist and she was the one who told me it was impossible to have that kind of reaction to Lexapro.

[melody]

42. you definitely need a new psychiatrist - what a moron

My psychiatrist has always been very upfront about all the possible repercussions and side effects.

Good luck to you -- don't give up, it took 35 years to find something that worked on me.

[tinrobot]

62. SSRI's don't cure depression, but they may alleviate it.

Antidepressants can be a very good thing for people who are in a lot of mental pain. But they're no more effective in curing depression than a painkiller is effective in healing a broken leg. Both will mask the pain, but neither will fix the underlying cause.

People who take antidepressants generally will feel better at first, but the depression is only masked. If they don't do the personal work to address the underlying cause of the depression, then the antidepressants will eventually plateau and leave the patient in a far worse position - the depression will come back and the pills will stop working.

[pitohui]

44. the article is just plain old maundering bullshit

they want to crap on drugs as the "cause" of suicides, then crap on the lack of drugs (hormone replacement therapy) as the "cause" of the suicides -- make up your mind????

SSRIs are not relevant in any case but the point is they throw the blame at docs giving too many drugs, then throw the blame at docs not giving ENOUGH drugs

it's a shitty article

stick with what's working for you

in my humble O the cause of middle aged suicide is economic, as the old book "suicide" once said about suicides in paris, "we could tell who died for debt because they made sure that they couldn't be saved"

no one who has access to drugs has to use carbon monoxide poisoning to off themselves

stay strong, melody, and a bright future to you

[melody]

47. yes, exactly, that was my reaction -- totally wrong slant

It's just another "those bad happy pills" articles.

Thanks, my friend, for the kind wishes. Hopefully there will be better times ahead for us all.

[no_hypocrisy]

2. The demographic seems focused on Baby Boomers.

Reminds me of Peggy Lee's classic Is That All There Is?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lTpFUT-lxls

[zanne]

6. Some people never get over mourning their youth...

They see it as their most devastating loss. (I wish I had my 25 year-old body back, but I don't really miss anything else that much).

[rocktivity]

3. Candidate for this month's "You Call This NEWS?" Award

I'm not the least bit surprised that the military isn't the only place the suicide rate is going up.

:(
rocknation

[JohnCheg]

4. This is a function of.....

Age.

You get old enough and wise enough and then, of course, you kill yourself

[pitohui]

9. except it isn't, midlife in americans used to be the happiest time of life

the risk of suicide in one's 40s and 50s was substantially lower than in one's teens and in one's old age (in old age some of the suicides were probably for rational reasons such as terminal illness)

while i did know a woman who committed suicide in her 50s in the 1970s it was considered to be quite unusual and out of the statistical norm

[Warpy]

10. Right, the kids were grown and gone, earnings were at their peak

people could do a little traveling, take a nice cruise, the house was nearly or completely paid off, there was a decent pension to look forward to, it was a great part of life.

What happened?

Conservatives.

[Skittles]

45. are you really, really young?

because you seem to lack true knowledge and wisdom

[Warpy]

5. "It's the economy, stupid!"

Any questions?

[AnneD]

23. Thank You...

my thoughts exactly. During the depression you had folks jumping from offices in suicide. I think is is another form.

Folks squeezed from all angles...it's stress. Just look at the suicide rate among the USAR, NG ans regular Army.

[Morereason]

86. Ding ding ding... It is more difficult to get (and keep) a decent job and life at 50+ than ever

[Xipe Totec]

84. So how's the market for suicide booths?

[fed-up]

7. studies linking meds to violence-it is termed an ADVERSE reaction to meds

http://medicine.plosjournals.org/perlserv/?request=get-...
Antidepressants and Violence: Problems at the Interface of Medicine and Law
David Healy*, Andrew Herxheimer, David B. Menkes

Funding: The authors received no specific funding for this article.

Introduction
In 1989, Joseph Wesbecker shot dead eight people and injured 12 others before killing himself at his place of work in Kentucky. Wesbecker had been taking the selective serotonin reuptake inhibitor (SSRI) antidepressant fluoxetine for four weeks before these homicides, and this led to a legal action against the makers of fluoxetine, Eli Lilly <1>. The case was tried and settled in 1994, and as part of the settlement a number of pharmaceutical company documents about drug-induced activation were released into the public domain. Subsequent legal cases, some of which are outlined below, have further raised the possibility of a link between antidepressant use and violence.

The issue of treatment-related activation has since then been considered primarily in terms of possible increases in the risk of suicide among a subgroup of patients who react adversely to treatment. This possibility has led regulatory authorities to warn doctors about the risk of suicide in the early stages of treatment, at times of changing dosage, and during the withdrawal phase of treatment. Some regulators, such as the Canadian regulators, have also referred to risks of treatment-induced activation leading to both self-harm and harm to others <2>. The United States labels for all antidepressants as of August 2004 note that “anxiety, agitation, panic attacks, insomnia, irritability, hostility, aggressiveness, impulsivity, akathisia (psychomotor restlessness), hypomania, and mania have been reported in adult and pediatric patients being treated with antidepressants for major depressive disorder as well as for other indications, both psychiatric and nonpsychiatric” <3>. Despite these developments, few data are available on the links between antidepressant usage and violence. We here offer new data, review the implications of these data, and summarise a series of medico-legal cases.

This paper focuses on paroxetine primarily because we have access to more illustrative medico-legal case material for this drug than for other antidepressants. Secondly, the manufacturer, GlaxoSmithKline, submitted data on the rates of occurrence of “hostile” episodes on paroxetine for the recent review of antidepressant drugs undertaken by the British regulator <4,5>. It is not clear that the review team obtained comparable data for other antidepressants.

..snip

Discussion
Mechanisms of antidepressant-induced violence
A link between antidepressant use and violence needs a plausible clinical mechanism through which such effects might be realised. There are comparable data on increased rates of suicidal events on active treatment compared to placebo <16,17>. In the case of suicide, several explanations have been offered for the linkage. It is argued that alleviating the motor retardation of depression, the condition being treated, might enable suicides to happen, but this cannot explain the appearance of suicidality in healthy volunteers. Mechanisms linking antidepressant treatment, rather than the condition, to adverse behavioural outcomes include akathisia, emotional disinhibition, emotional blunting, and manic or psychotic reactions to treatment. There is good evidence that antidepressant treatment can induce problems such as these and a prima facie case that akathisia, emotional blunting, and manic or psychotic reactions might lead to violence.

..snip

Substantial evidence from SSRI clinical trials shows that these drugs can trigger agitation. Approximately five percent of patients on SSRIs in randomised trials drop out for agitation against 0.5% on placebo. The current data sheets for SSRI antidepressants specify that the drugs can cause akathisia and agitation, and warn about developing suicidality in the early phase of treatment, on treatment discontinuation, and in the wake of a dosage increase during the course of treatment. In the US, these warnings explicitly apply to not only depressed patients but also people being treated for anxiety, smoking cessation, or premenstrual dysphoric disorder. In Canada, warnings specify an increased risk of violence in addition to suicide.

..snip

Case 1
DS was a 60-year-old man with a history of five prior anxiety/depressive episodes. These did not involve suicidality, aggressive behaviour, or other serious disturbance. All prior episodes had resolved within several weeks. In 1990 DS had had an episode of depression, which his doctor treated with fluoxetine. He had a clear adverse reaction to fluoxetine involving agitation, restlessness and possible hallucinations, which worsened over a three-week period despite treatment with trazodone and propranolol that might have been expected to minimise the severity of such a reaction. After fluoxetine was discontinued DS responded rapidly to imipramine.

In 1998, a new family doctor, unaware of this adverse reaction to fluoxetine, prescribed paroxetine 20 mg to DS, for what was diagnosed as an anxiety disorder. Two days later having had, it is believed, two doses of medication, DS using a gun put three bullets each through the heads of his wife, his daughter who was visiting, and his nine-month-old granddaughter before killing himself.

At jury trial in Wyoming in June 2001, instigated by DS' surviving son-in-law, a jury found that paroxetine “can cause some people to become homicidal and/or suicidal” <39>. SmithKline Beecham was deemed 80 percent responsible for the ensuing events <1>. The documentary evidence included an unpublished company study of incidents of serious aggression in 80 patients, 25 of which involved homicide.

Experts for the plaintiff suggested that the mechanism through which paroxetine contributed to these events was probably akathisia or psychosis. A central problem with both akathisia and psychosis in such contexts is that the takers of medications often fail to recognise the fact that the state they are in is drug-induced and that discontinuing treatment can alleviate the symptoms.

..snip




http://www.ssristories.com /

This website is a collection of 2100+ news stories with the full media article available, mainly criminal in nature, that have appeared in the media (newspapers, TV, scientific journals) or that were part of FDA testimony in either 1991, 2004 or 2006, in which antidepressants are mentioned.

Antidepressants have been recognized as potential inducers of mania and psychosis since their introduction in the 1950s. Klein and Fink1 described psychosis as an adverse effect of the older tricyclic antidepressant imipramine. Since the introduction of Prozac in December, 1987, there has been a massive increase in the number of people taking antidepressants. Preda and Bowers2 reported that over 200,000 people a year enter a hospital with antidepressant-associated mania and/or psychosis. The subsequent harm from this prescribing can be seen in these 2100+ stories.

These stories have been collected over a period of years by two directors of the International Coalition for Drug Awareness (ICFDA). Their focus has been on Selective Serotonin Reuptake Inhibitors (SSRIs), of which Prozac was the first. Other SSRIs are Zoloft, Paxil (Seroxat), Celexa, Sarafem (Prozac in a pink pill), Lexapro, and Luvox. Other newer antidepressants included in this list are Remeron, Anafranil and the SNRIs Effexor, Serzone and Cymbalta as well as the dopamine reuptake inhibitor antidepressant Wellbutrin (also marketed as Zyban).

A public health problem of epidemic proportions

The Physicians' Desk Reference lists the following adverse reactions (side effects) to antidepressants among a host of other physical and neuropsychiatric effects: manic reaction (mania, e.g. kleptomania, pyromania, dipsomania), emotional lability (or instability), abnormal thinking, alcohol abuse, hallucinations, hostility, lack of emotion, paranoid reaction, amnesia, confusion, agitation, delirum, delusions, hysteria, psychosis, sleep disorders, abnormal dreams, and discontinuation (withdrawal) syndrome. Adverse reactions are especially likely when starting or discontinuing the drug, increasing or lowering the dose or when switching from one SSRI to another SSRI. Adverse reactions are often diagnosed as bipolar disorder when the symptoms could be entirely iatrogenic (treatment induced). Withdrawal, especially abrupt withdrawal, from any of these medications can also cause severe neuropsychiatric and physical symptoms. It is important to withdraw extremely slowly from these drugs, usually over a period of a year or more, under the supervision of a qualified and experienced specialist.

In addition to the adverse reactions listed in the Physicians' Desk Reference, the FDA published a Public Health Advisory on March 22, 2004 which states (in part): "Anxiety, agitation, panic attacks, insomnia, irritability, hostility, impulsivity, akathisia (severe restlessness), hypomania, and mania have been reported in adult and pediatric patients being treated with antidepressants for major depressive disorder as well as for other indications, both psychiatric and nonpsychiatric." (Click Links button at bottom of this page for a direct link to this FDA Warning.)

Most of the stories on this site describe events which occurred after the year 2000. The increase in online news material and the efficiency of search engines has greatly increased the ability to track stories. Even these 2100+ documented stories only represent the tip of an iceberg since most stories do not make it into the media. There are 45 cases of bizarre behavior, 28 school shootings/incidents, 49 road rage tragedies, 10 air rage incidents, 32 postpartum depression cases, over 500 murders (homicides), over 180 murder-suicides and other acts of violence including workplace violence on this site.

[RainDog]

51. SSRIs are not mentioned in that article

Viagra and Ambien are, however.

I can't even get through your entire post, but I did see that you claim that SSRIs CAUSE mania, i.e. bipolar disorder. This is total bullshit. This is misdiagnosis - when drs only see the depressive state... when ppl w/ bp disorder don't recognize their own mania.

I can say from my own experience that I was close to suicide and an SSRI helped to pull me away from that abyss. I have had family members who have had the same experience. In my case, the depression stemmed and stems from economic issues after being a stay-at-home mom. As others have said, SSRIs should not be indiscriminately prescribed. But for others, they have saved lives.

Sometimes I can't distinguish the pharma haters from the scientologists. It is irresponsible of you to post misleading information that might keep others from getting help that they need. You might want to think about that.

[Chovexani]

56. The problem is not with SSRIs

It's with the irresponsible doctors and drug companies who push them for every little minor thing in order to profit off people's misery. I've had severe depression for most of my life, and Zoloft made it worse. It just didn't jive with my brain chemistry or something, I dunno. I can tell you without a doubt though that Paxil saved my life.

I think people are way too harsh on these drugs because they don't understand just how crippling these conditions can be. Like someone upthread said there is a tendency to for people who've never been affected by them to think it's all in our heads. It's a chemical imbalance, a disease. There is a definite need for these drugs and they've done a world of good for many people, self included.

OTOH, we're talking about a class of drugs that seriously affect people's brain chemistry. They shouldn't be tossed around willy nilly but Big Pharma cares more about the almighty dollar than they do about patients. I know better than most--I've BEEN to medical conferences (my mom's an RN), I've seen the marketing gimmicks and free swag they throw at doctors, I've gotten a lot of it. Hell, I've never bought a pen in my life I have so many drug pens. The last conference we went to in Boston, we brought so much swag back that we had to check an extra bag at the airport (that we got from one of the drug vendors, heh). It's shameful.

Drug marketing is out of control and is making us a nation of hypochrondiacs. God help me for quoting that sexist pig Bill Maher, but he had it right when he said that those commercials that tell you to ask your doctor about a drug are ridiculous, when you "ask your doctor" about getting drugs, he's not your doctor anymore, he's your drug dealer. They put of a list of vague symptoms and make people run to WebMD to see if they've got cancer of the monkey ass or something.

And the absolute worst part about all of this is that it makes people who don't have those conditions wary of anyone who genuinely has them. I've got Social Anxiety Disorder and it's not just "shyness" as someone else put it. It's freaking the fuck out in a crowd of people to the point where you're hyperventilating and can't breathe. I had a panic attack on a business trip recently, after not having had one in a while, and it was crippling. But because there are so many BS diagnoses out there, people get the wrong idea.

[pitohui]

8. age discrimination is real and 2 often you have no future now as an over 45

buried in the article is the statement that surveys after survey shows that for americans middle age is GENERALLY the happiest time of life, which my observation convinces me to be true as a generality -- you are past the angst of youth, not yet struggling with the major pain and disease of old age

however a big problem i've confronted and i'm sure many others do also, is that if you are not rich and if anything goes wrong in your career path (or if you are self-employed) then you have a difficult time ever getting another job or getting health insurance, and a minor crisis can quickly wipe out your life savings at a time when you don't have another whole life time to replace them

i can easily see where one might choose to commit suicide, rather than run a risk of leaving one's spouse without any financial resources in old age after a lifetime of work -- i think this happens fairly often when people just give up and refuse treatment or even take active measures to end it without discussing their fears of illness with their families

the article seems to believe that people buying prescription drugs from doctor feelgoods or off the internet are the cause, well maybe, but how many doctor feelgoods are left when the DEA is snatching licenses every day, what i hear about here on the ground is people in chronic pain not being able to get enough pain medicine -- a completely opposite issue to this claim that drugs are handed out too freely, in my experience, they are denied too often and leave people in terrible pain -- so i'm not so sure of that theory, they blame drugs, yet the anecdotes they describe are carbon monoxide poisoning? if drugs were so easy to get why put together a home suicide kit in your garage?

also they then say maybe it's lack of hormone therapy for menopausal women, well, lack of hormone therapy is not a problem caused by drugs being handed out too freely, again, it's an issue of a drug and a choice being snatched away from women that they previously had

seems an article written in haste without much thought to me

[H8fascistcons]

11. Whats the big mystery?

Suicide rates always increase under a republican administration, their policies crush the life out of average Americans....

[flashl]

14. You are probably onto something, several years ago, I read an article where

the bean counters were noticing an increase in midlifers suicides. Prior, to this admin the trend of high suicides were in the teen and elder demographics.

[shireen]

16. you got it right!

Thom Hartmann has, on several occasions, discussed a study (i think it was in the UK, but not sure) where depression rates were higher when conservatives were in power.

I immediate thought of that when I read the article.

BTW, welcome to DU! :hi:

[primavera]

69. UK study

Suicide rates tend to rise under Tory rule

Sarah Boseley, health editor
The Guardian, Thursday September 19 2002

Suicide rates have tended to rise in the UK when a Conservative government has been in power during the last 100 years, with the big exception of Edward Heath's 1970-74 administration, according to a scientific paper published today. The authors of the paper, published in the Journal of Epidemiology and Community Health, calculate that 35,000 more people died in the last century than would have been the case if the Conservatives had not won an election.

The paper is a commentary on a detailed study in the same journal of the suicide rates related to political regime in Australia over the last century. The Australian study found a significantly higher suicide risk when conservative governments took power than when Labour won an election, even after allowances were made for other factors that have an impact on suicide rates, such as annual changes in GDP, world war (low suicide rates), drought (high suicide rates) and the easy availability for a short time in Australia of sedatives which resulted in an increase of overdose deaths.

Richard Taylor of the school of public health at the University of Sydney and colleagues who carried out the study found that when both federal and state governments were controlled by the conservatives, men were 17% more likely to kill themselves and women 40% more likely to commit suicide than when Labour was in power.

Professor Taylor and his team say the political ideologies of the two ruling parties have become blurred over the years, but they believe it may be people's hopes and perceptions of their prospects under one or the other government that may influence them.

[primavera]

67. That would certainly be my thought as well

I've actually seen therapists advertise counseling services for "political depression," attempting to address the sudden realization by Americans that their once free democratic country is now a plutocratic and theocratic police state where torture is condoned, elections are rigged, and policy written by corporate crooks. Sounds like a valid reason to be depressed to me.

[Xipe Totec]

82. Ding! Ding! Ding!

We have a winah!

Republican administrations are always rough years for me.

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

12. No mystery to me.

I see it every day and hear it on my police scanner.

These people are all members of "The Generation of The Betrayed". They were raised to work hard, play by the rules, be honest and The American Dream would be theirs. All they got was unemployment, no jobs, no pension, rising prices, no insurance, ruinous medical care costs, and the contempt of their politicians.

You can see the problem.

[otohara]

13. Medical Costs

That's what I worry about the most, one medical problem can sink a family now.

My friend recently had a mild stroke and had shitty insurance - 2 days in the hospital $30,000, insurance to pay only $6000. He will most likely lose his little home in a few months, and once in a while now, he throws suicide as an option.

[kineneb]

15. bingo! hopelessness is the problem

I can understand why he killed himself: why go on knowing things will only get worse. It is indeed "The Generation of The Betrayed".

The children born in the 1950s, especially late '50s, arrived just a little too late for "The Dream". The boom days of manufacturing were over by the time we graduated from high school, and if we went to college, we graduated right before or in the middle of the Regan Recession.

If, at any time since then, we lost a job, or had a medical crisis, our savings got eaten up, the pensions had to be cashed out, and we are left with nothing. And now, no one will hire us for anything more than minimum (slave) wage because we are "too old". We are now looking at life of declining living standards.

kineneb: class of 1976, BA in 1981. Flat broke in 2008.

...why am I in this handbasket, and where am I going?

[OKthatsIT]

61. everyone is pushed to the edge - overpopulation, 'dump the old'

People better wake up...dumping the old 'psyops' is in the NEOCON/UN/BANKERS+EuroNobles plan.

Watch TV or a movie lately? Middle age and seniors are portrayed as worthless nothings, taking up valuable space on the planet, unworthy of medial treatmenl, long life and giving wise advice.

SHIT..if we really gave them wise advice, they'd realize we were AMERICANS and we need to SAVE THE DAMN COUNTRY and CONSTITUTION!

So, there lies the problem. Isn't it time to TAKE BACK the country from these CORPORATE SCUM? We have a lot of work to do...to save the planet. Even YOU...yeah you, the 90 year old out there!

[Skittles]

46. yes - they either got that

or they greatly fear it

[OKthatsIT]

60. Maybe it's time to take back the country from corporations?

just a thought.

[shireen]

17. Mark Crispin Miller just commented on the article

Hissyspit posted it at http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x2890016

[MetaTrope]

19. Americans in that age group know what happened in Nazi Germany

While the youngsters nowadays couldn't care less.

[olddad56]

22. I think you are on to something....

People who clearly see where this country is are losing a bit of their will to live. I'm not talking about theones who see where this country is headed, but the ones who realize that we are already there.

Couple that with the fact that we are all going to die anyway, more people are realizing that fascism isn't pretty.

[Karenina]

43. Indeed we DO know, looking on as it happens AGAIN...

THIS TIME in the late, greatly-overrated U.S.of A. The nazis never went away, ya know. And indeed, much of that vile eugenics shit was an American export, PLUS the *money and technology to go for it. Then after the "Great War" Amerikkka imported scads of card-carrying nazis, (Oh, those Dulles boys) hiding them out in OSS, NASA and Argentinia, Ike warns us, *Bushco fronts Reagan, the *dauphin seizes the MIC and we're off!

ARE WE HAVING FUN YET???

[Lydia Leftcoast]

25. I wrote one of those readers' comments under another screen name

Look at the comments and you can see that a lot of people blame depression at the way the world is going.

I didn't write about the age discrimination faced by middle-aged people who have lost their jobs. I have two good friends and a relative, one single, one widowed, one divorced, who lost their jobs after age 55 and were never able to work in their fields again. They all took Social Security at age 62, because they had exhausted their savings, sold their houses, tapped out their 401ks, and applied for an average of 200 jobs all over the country.

Taking Social Security at 62 is a bad idea if you're healthy and capable of working, because it lowers your monthly pension forever, but with the temporary and minimum wage jobs these people could get, SS was all that prevented them from being homeless.

Two of them said that they had plenty of good telephone interviews when they used resumes that disguised their ages, but the moment they walked into the face-to-face interview (usually with one to three 30-35 year-olds) they could feel the atmosphere chilling. The face-to-face interviews were always cold and perfunctory.

[Carni]

26. Simple explanation Bush/Cheney regime eom

[Haole Girl]

27. "His medication was also taking a toll..."

Doctors need to be more concerned with *all* of the side-effects of drugs. After going through this, personally, in December, I have a new understanding of the deep depths of depression certain drugs can lead to. I hope it wasn't primarily the case of a doctor not monitoring his/her patient closely enough. :-(

[blues90]

28. When a person reaches an age past 50 and they find

They are not longer a viable part of society and lose their job and all their years of experience and pride in the knowledge they have acquired through the years with basically a high school education then what is left for them .

I think of the paly , Death of a Salesman where his work and life style suddenly meant nothing . He watched as things rapidly changed and could not find a way to adapt . If you take that away from anyone and there is nothing to replace it and you have to start at the bottom all over again it can become over whelming .

I don't feel you have to be mentaly ill , all it takes is to find you are nothing suddenly .

Look at the result of people who were in prison for many years where in prison they may become somewhat important then they are released into a world where they are far behind and they find they are nothing .

To say it's all to do with simple depression is leaving out alot of the human condition .

I have battled anxiety and panic attacks for many years but once I lost my job and position and found there was nothing out there left and I could not even find a service job because lets face it , no one will hire you if you are over qualified because they know you will continue to look for something better . I went through countless interviews and got nowhere . Once I realized this to be the case at 57 at the time then the deep depression set in . I thought there would be no problem finding work but I was as wrong as wrong can be . There are skills I have that at my age I am now considered to old for say construction work .

I have many times sat and thought , what is the point if this is going to be a slow death of the mind . Drugs only get me through a day at a time but they in no way will solve the root cause of my depression .

Take a persons place in society away and what have they got left ? Not everyone can adapt to rapid change and being told no we have many younger people who can do the work better than you , if they tell you at all , most often you never get a call back .

No one really gives a damn .

[Carni]

30. So sorry to hear of your ordeal!

Hang in there!

If it's any consolation there are a lot of people (myself included) who are going through some really bad times currently.

Our society is a total mess...there is no reason people with experience and lots of life skills should be trashed in such a manner.

[laylah]

38. I hear,

and am living every word that you have said. You are absolutely correct...no one really gives a damn.

Oh, of course, my closest friends (who are miles away) and my children; however, overall, it sucks (for me) being shy of 57, knowing my many, MANY gifts yet being turned away because I refuse to color my hair and look younger.

It is my children, and especially my oldest, that keeps me from doing something "stupid". I pray you have someone that special in your life because, whether we know it or not, we ARE special! We have been through things our kiddos will never know, as they will us over time.

As for our place in the work world...I have no answer. I was raised in the era where experience meant something. No longer...and I struggle with that thought every day.

I dunno, I guess what I am saying is depression sucks...may you have someone to bolster your determination to stay with us! I do! Her name is Sara.

:hug: This too shall pass :loveya:

[blues90]

49. I have my wife at least

but as far as this passing , i don't have much hope that I will ever have a job that is worth a damn again and believe me I have looked far and wide .

It looks like this will be how ever many years I have left of a struggle just to survive . I know many others are in the same boat as I .

Too bad all who are there cannot connect and together find a way through this without falling through the cracks .

[CanSocDem]

70. My sympathies....

...to you and all the others who were raised in a society that put more value on your possessions than on you as an individual. You 'have a wife' but you don't have a 'good job'.......

Good be that your depression stems from realizing that looking good wasn't as important as feeing good.

.

[blues90]

76. My life never revolved around possessions

It revolved around me and my wife being able to have a minimal life and to be able to exist with basic needs . we never went for the consumer attitude . We have one car that's a 1973 and a small apt and thrift store furnature and clothes . And we were happy with this . We fixed old things up instead of buying new things because we always felt better about saving what was good and not wasting a thing .

Screw keeping up with the Jones .

[shireen]

41. i hear ya ....

:hug:

[kineneb]

78. rapidly approaching 50, but not playing "the game"

I have decided "work" is not really worth it. I got really tired of working around people with negative IQs, and getting paid shit for the "pleasure". Aaaaaahhhh.....

At this point, given my mental health history and status, I am probably unemployable anyway. Because of my husband's health, I have gotten used to living on the edge of poverty, so riches, while nice, are not necessary. Through luck and a bit of good planning, we were able to keep the place we bought, and the payments are ridiculously low. As long as I can pay the few bills we still have, I am satisfied.

As one of the over-educated and rarely employed, I have a bunch of skills and a zillion hobbies, many of which can bring in cash income, and skills which I can barter: Music lessons, oil painting, sewing, woodworking, Linux sys admin, computer typesetting, wool spinning, etc.

[katty]

34. hopelessness and/or off your meds - the world gets scarier

every second.

[dogfacedboy]

48. A co-worker hung himself at work on 2-08-08.

No note. No medications to go off of. Good job. Loving family. No extraordinary debt as far as anyone knows. No tell-tale signs of stress. 48 years old.
The guy who found him is having 24/7 flashbacks and nightmares. All around him are devastated.
Coincidentally, I had gone to HS with the guy. Worked with him for the past 4 years.
What a waste of a life. Very sad, and, IMO, extremely selfish all at once.

[shireen]

54. why is he selfish? nt

[dogfacedboy]

55. Leaving a wife and others behind who relied on him.

When one commits suicide, they leave behind a "mess" for others to deal with.

[shireen]

65. To call him selfish is to blame him for something he could not control.

Was his life defined by living for other people, his family and friend? What about his own life experience, his pain? Who was looking out for him when he could not do it for himself?

Depression is a diverse, complex and often misunderstood medical illness. Suicide is not something done on a whim. And most of the time, it is not a logical decision because most depressed people hold a highly distorted view of the world. When an adult living with depression takes his life, he is driven to it because he sees no other solution. If that suicide impulse is intercepted by people who recognize the danger signs, there is hope that medication and psychotherapy can lead him out of that dark place. But many people who have never experienced depression are unable to pick up those subtle clues because depressed people are very good at hiding their condition. And when the person "suddenly" takes his or her life, everyone's so shocked ....

So unless you have the magical capacity to step into his mind and experience his world, you have no right to pass judgment on him.

[dogfacedboy]

80. He CHOSE not to seek help.

He obviously had a problem. People w/o serious problems don't commit suicide. He had plenty of people around him who would have done ANYTHING to help him. He CHOSE to hide any problems he was having inside his head. I can say this because I know what his life was like. I worked 4 feet away from him everyday. I socialized with the guy, on and off, for over 30 years (since High School). I know his friends and family. I understand EVERYTHING you say in your post, and I don't dispute any of it, in general, but I have way more insight into his world than you. I'm sorry, but I WILL pass judgment, and stand by my position that it was a very selfish act for him to commit. It solved nothing, and made the lives of others worse. People will go hungry because of this. The educational paths of people will be altered badly, maybe ended. People's lives have been turned upside down FOREVER. He held an important position at his place of employment. He was part of making the company what it is. There will be serious negative effects. Aside from the life long emotional pain, people will fall through the cracks because of this.

Have A Nice Day.

[Karenina]

91. Dfb, I'm so sorry for your loss...

It took me DECADES to forgive my father for the aftermath of his act. It took several more to come to an understanding that HIS decision was one that NO ONE could contravene. His considerable "worldly accomplisments" were cages and the pain was too great FOR HIM. He was quite inconsiderate in leaving his body where his 9 year-old first child would find it. But he was TRAPPED in his mind and indeed frightened, after trying to choke me, that he was NOT in control. I was BANGING his leg with with my fist and all the strength I had; I SAW him come back into his body and the ABJECT HORROR on his face. Wudda, shudda, cudda, what's done is done. I harbor no more blame. THAT has set me free. Endlich.

[TexasBushwhacker]

50. I wonder what medication he was on

Beta blockers, prescribed for high blood pressure, are notorious for causing depression.

[Esya]

52. why the increase in "middle aged" suicides?

1. Their retirement funds, including private ones, have been robbed repeatedly by corporations and the government since the Reagan era and after.
2. They are the sandwich generation: started having kids late, now burdened with both elderly parents and self centered kids.
3. The republicans have bashed their ethics, morals, and sense of self worth since the 1990s.
4. Their employers are 90% jerks and 10% insolvent.
5. They went through one of the highest divorce rate periods in our country and many never recovered.
6. They are living long enough to realize they have way too many more years until retirement, and not enough health coverage or retirement income coming.
7. The younger workers are too inexperienced to do the work and too impatient to know it.
8. The white men are bashed by minorities, and the women, by Obamaites.
9. The minorities are just getting out of prison in droves.
10. Their children are either anxious about their future, or disrespectful of the effort that the 45 to 54 year olds have to put in.
11. Their major asset, their homes, are dropping in value.
12. They know they are well past the point of being able to increase their income making potential.
13. Their mom's on welfare and needs constant help.
14. Their disabled children receive less help at any time since the great depression.

How do I know? I am 54 and exhausted, and have 14 years to go, and everyone around me resents that I am still a working female--like Hillary.

[raccoon]

66. I agree with some of your points, and as a 50-something year old,

I know that age discrimination is very real.

But I don't get these too:

"8. The white men are bashed by minorities, and the women, by Obamaites.
9. The minorities are just getting out of prison in droves."

#8--somebody "bashing" you is a reason for suicide? How about the "bashing" women and minorities have taken for millenia, and still are? Oh, excuse me--that's not considered "bashing."

What does #9 have to do with anything?

[Chovexani]

53. I think this is due to a combination of things

As others mentioned, a lot of this can be attributed to the fact that we're overmedicated as a society, and we still have no idea of the long-term effects of some of these medications Big Pharma is throwing at us.

But I don't think it's just that. I also think that our society's pathological obsession with youth is to blame for a lot of it too. If you're over a certain age--especially if you're female--you're considered something worthless to be put out to pasture. If you don't have the spouse and the 2.5 kids and the picket fence by a point, you're considered an abject failure, even as attitudes are changing. Our demographic-driven popular media and entertainment is all geared towards putting youth on a pedestal. Hell, just listen to what that turd Limbaugh said about Hillary Clinton, and this is sadly probably the only truth he's ever told: America doesn't want to watch a middle-aged woman get old before our eyes. Actors freaking out and getting Botox because they're scared shitless their wrinkles are showing up in high definition is another example.

Society pushes some really fucked up ideas about aging (if you think I'm lying, just check the birthday section of your local greeting card store) and my only surprise is that it's taken this long for the proverbial chickens to come home to roost. Sure, we're not the only society that's ever prized youth and beauty above all else (Classical Greece, anyone?), but our mass media makes it far easier to enforce cultural standards of acceptability.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

63. how the HELL can they be surprised?

corporatism is a disease that kills the spirit of 90% of those who simply want to live and let live. That 10% wants to live and let die, and stomp on the grave. and they have the resources to do it.

duh.

[Karenina]

71. Succinctly put.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

73. i have my moment. Next one's due at the end of 2010, with the lunar

eclipse. I just hope I don't miss it.

[raccoon]

72. One of the comments on the NY Times article said it well:

"It's the economy, stupid. People aged 45-55 are among those most likely to be downsized, outsourced, laid off. Then they have no insurance or affordable medical care until they reach 65. Life has been getter tougher for many people, and national events are not cause for optimism. "

— ajdemar, ca


http://community.nytimes.com/article/comments/2008/02/19/us/19suicide.html

[pitohui]

77. and if you're partnered you almost feel like suicide is an obligation in soem situations

my husband is younger than i am and i couldn't justify burning up our entire life savings and then leaving him too old to get more and yet with many years, hell, decades ahead of him of grinding poverty in old age

fortunately my recent cancer "scare" proved to be a mistaken dx but it really made me stop and think

and i also have alzheimer's in my family

the one who gets ill first doesn't just have the fear of dying, they have the fear of being remembered as the one who financially destroyed their family for a few more months or years of life

we need real change and health care safety net NOW

[leftofthedial]

74. I never thought about suicide until 2000-2001

when I began to realize how thoroughly this entire country and indeed my entire world view were lies. Don't get me wrong. I've always been a fairly cynical political realist. I knew that there are powers behind the power, that our "government is mostly a sham, that the system is designed to benefit the powerful, and that "democracy" functions only to the extent that it serves the interests of the wealthy.

But beneath all that, I believed in a natural order--that truth was mightier than lies, that good people could come together and change things for the better, that merit is rewarded naturally, that there is a crude karmic "justice" in the world . . . all of which are complete delusion as it turns out. There is *nothing* in this world but power and its ruthless exercise.

The multiple whammy of the coup of 2000, the betrayal of 9-11, economic displacement and financial ruin, the unceasing stream of corruption and illegality into which this country has sunk, a growing awareness of the true power of the oligarchy and their corporations, the apathetic intellectual vacuity of the people of this country, the systemic cultural elevation of mediocrity and incompetence, the stolen election of 2004 and the resulting gutlessness and complicity of the "democrats," and numerous personal and family issues left me depressed and contemplating suicide daily. In fact, I spent every day for most of two years just finding ways NOT to kill myself.

I'm 52 now, still alive, and mightily pissed off.

[Kaleko]

87. Bullseye! Stunning post...

...everything you said hits home, leftofthedial.

[Javaman]

75. I'm commiting slow corporate suicide...dying at my desk. nt

[MadHound]

79. Many causes for this phenomenon

Many people in that age bracket are having to start at the bottom of the career ladder again after their first career went to China. Economy is taking it's toll what with lower pay, poor housing markets and runaway inflation. Plus, this is the first generation that's been on that hyper speed treadmill all their working lives, fifty, sixty plus hours a week for the past twenty, thirty years takes its toll. The real kicker is that when you look back at your folks and where they were at your age, you sadly find yourself falling short.

Plus our whole society has become one big behavioral sink. More people, fewer resources, more stress, everybody scrambling for whatever they can get all the time. The pursuit of the material, as opposed to happiness, has become supreme in our society, and if you don't have the material, most people wind up feeling worthless.

We need to rethink, and revalue our society. Slow the fuck down, get out of the ratrace, stop worshiping at the altar of the material things. One reason why I found moving out to the country so very refreshing, the pace of life is slower here. You've always got time to talk with your neighbors and friends, enjoy the peace and quiet, relax and get in touch with yourself.

But sadly I think that this trend will continue as our country goes down the toilet.

[dogfacedboy]

81. You are absolutely correct. n/t

[Xipe Totec]

83. Link to discussion on Editorials

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=103&topic_id=339660&mesg_id=339660

[Zorra]

85. Doesn't puzzle me. Industrial societies breed insanity.

Kill your television.

[Apollo11]

88. Very interesting thread

Thanks to everyone who shared their stories. :hi:

I think most of us feel down sometimes. Especially since November 2000 (we all know why).

Then we all have personal reasons why we are maybe not 100% satisfied with life.

I have a degree in psychology, but never really studied mental health issues.

I have noticed that reading about depression makes me feel more depressed. ;-)

I know there are people who say that depression is a crippling disease.

It is also a subjective experience. Nobody else can know for sure how you feel.

I will be 39 next week and the reality of midlife is just starting to dawn on me.

But I don't want to go into my whole personal situation here and now.

Let's just say I find it valuable to learn about others' experiences.

DU is a great place in many ways. But it is also dangerously addictive! B-)

[bklyncowgirl]

89. Americans in that age group are under a great deal of stress

At work they're facing downsizing and the very real prospect of not being competetive in the job market.

At home they're dealing simultaneously with kids in their teens and early twenties and all the usual problems related to this age group plus many are coping with the problems of their aging parents.

Is it any wonder that some cannot stand the strain?

[Maeve]

90. It's not just Americans

Researchers have found an almost universal curve of happiness that hits its lowest point around 45. Midlife sucks, but then it gets better.
Check out the story from NPR's Talk of the Nation:
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=19201070