Gunman opens fire in Colo. missionary center

[CanonRay]

Source: MSNBC.com

DENVER - A gunman walked into a training center for young Christian missionaries in a Denver suburb early Sunday and opened fire, wounding at least four people.

The shooting happened at about 12:30 a.m. on Sunday at the Youth With a Mission center, Arvada Police spokeswoman Susan Medina said.

The extent of the injuries was not clear, and the gunman was still at large Sunday morning.

Link: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22168660/

Read more: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22168660/

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

1. Local news just said two of those shot have died.

:cry:

MKJ

[maddezmom]

11. CNN: Two of four people shot at a Christian missionary center near Denver are dead

Two of four people shot at a Christian missionary center near Denver are dead, according to a regional director for Youth With a Mission

:(

[Name removed]

2. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[MADem]

6. Wearing a SKULLCAP? That could easily be an angst-filled Jew or Muslim.

Or, it could just be some shithead with cold ears....

[Name removed]

3. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[classof56]

8. Have you had young people from YWAM come to your door?

I'm just curious because I have friends whose adult child is involved in Youth With A Mission in another country, and it is my understanding theirs isn't a door-to-door ministry, but more loving and humanitarian in nature to groups of people in need. I do know that Jehovah's Witnesses and Mormons come a-knocking quite often, but even when I lived near a YWAM training center I never knew of them doing the door-to-door thing.

Actually, I am always surprised when someone opens fire and kills people at random, whether in schools, shopping malls, churches, wherever. You'd think it wouldn't shock me anymore, given how often it happens, but it still does. Shocks and saddens.

Tired Old Cynic

[jberryhill]

27. mentioned as a cult on DU sometime back....

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x2071734

[knitter4democracy]

45. I'm not so sure.

I've known people in YWAM, and it really sounds similar to other mission groups--constant fund raiding, low pay, stuck in another country to sink or swim . . . Same thing.

[Cronopio]

13. Like when a smirking J. Witness told me "You must love your evil, don't you?" ...

... when I refused his offer to join his little coven.

Still doesn't change my sorrow that the missionaries were shot and killed. Who knows, maybe those shot were some of the real Christians - ones that didn't make their quota, or weren't quite enthusiastic enough about their orders. Some people just find themselves in the wrong crowd sometimes.

[stray cat]

18. or people supporting a political candidate coming to your door

or girls selling girl scout cookies....

[Enrique]

25. being killed is on a different level than getting your door knocked on

not a very good karmic exchange.

[MADem]

4. OHFACHRISSAKE...did this asshole watch the news, or what?

Does this little asshole wanna be famous, too? I swear, he needs a public whipping on national TV right after his miserable ass is sentenced, if he doesn't do the dramatic "Goodbye, Cruel World" shot to the head first. Maybe the sight of a little shit shrieking and sobbing will put some of these angst-ridden clowns off of blowing innocent people away.

And it's always a 'young white male.' Why is that? Never an Asian female...

Witnesses told police that the gunman was a white male, about 20 years old, wearing a dark jacket and a skull cap. He may have glasses or a beard.

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

5. Yep, the shooting, the suicide note and the gunman's sordid history always get lots and lots and

lots of airplay after one of those massacres by a seriously disturbed individual.

The complete lack of irony in the saturation reporting of a suicide note that says "now I'll be famous" by the corporomediaists is stunning.

Do the newsreaders not even think anymore before spouting their lines?

MKJ

[1932]

7. I agree, but that doesn't apply in this case, since the guy got away and doesn't

seem to be interested in anyone figuring out who he is.

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

9. Maybe he decided he'd like to be

alive for his moment of fame? :shrug:

He knows that's a guarantee, I'd imagine. MKJ

[MindPilot]

16. Why is it always a young white male?

Because the Black males have filled all the prisons, Mexican males filled all the jobs and Asian males filled all the colleges.

Whats a white feller to do? :sarcasm:

Seriously that's kind of a broadbrush...IIRC the VA shooter was Asian.

[MADem]

35. Yeah, he was Korean....and everyone went OOOOOOH!! Aaaaaaah!!!!

And they said it must be Burger King and McDonald's that did this to him!! THAT's the reason!!!

And then they said "Ahhhh, he was a 'psych case'...THAT explains it!!"

He was, though, the exception that proves the rule. I didn't see the "Asian contingent" racing out to copycat that business....

[krispos42]

43. It's a 50/50 shot on the race of a murderer being either black or white

98% of homicides are either white-on-white, white-on-black, black-on-white, or black-on-black.

They probably consider Latinos to be white, as in "white hispanic".

But the spectacular ones can be characterized as "young white males with past history of emotional problems".

According to the Department of Justice, from 1976 to 2005:

• Black murderers use guns 56.$% of the time, whites 41.9% of the time
  
• White murderers have multiple victims 55.7% of the time, blacks 40.8% of the time
  
• Multiple-murder victims are white 63.4% of the time, black 33.2% of the time
  
• Murders over drugs are committed 65.0% of the time by blacks, 33.9% of the time by whites
  
• Gang murders are commited 54.3% of the time by whites, 41.2% of the time by blacks

http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide/race.htm

On the plus side, homicides in general are way down. But the Republicans in Congress started defunding the Clinton COPS program (that put well over 50,000 police on the street) as soon a BushCo took office, so a lot of cops have been let go, or retirees are not being replaced. So how long can that last?

[grahamhgreen]

36. Because they can't get laid.

[xchrom]

10. more guns and more gun violence. nt

[krispos42]

44. Our per-capita rate of gun ownership has stayed relatively constant

And homicides are at 40-year lows.

For some reason, the spectacular school shooting has become part of our culture, and will probably remain so for a generation or two.

[blondie58]

12. wow- I think this happened right by my house

when searching for Youth with a Mission, a location in Arvada came up and I think that it is the address of what is one of those mega churches- Faith Bible Chapel.

[paparush]

14. I'm Waiting for Bush to Address the Nation. To remind us to care for one another.

I'll just keep right on waiting.....

[MindPilot]

15. The place looks like something right out of a Thomas Kincaid

From MSNBC's site.

[stray cat]

17. snow and a light? Could pass for alot of places midwinter

[ileus]

46. Nice Wagoneer!

[Harper_is_Bush]

19. A death penalty society reaps what it sows. n/t

[Pavulon]

21. Pretty harsh judgment there

without any facts to base them on. All the responses here and only a handful show any sympathy to those shot.

[Harper_is_Bush]

29. Not harsh or baseless at all. The death penalty provides a shining example of a singular thing:

people may judge others as worthy of death and people have the right to carry out the judgement.

When a person walks into a mall or a school and kills others, how is that not mimicry on a micro level of what the US government performs regularly at it's prisons?

Proponents of the DP feel it's OK to kill others...that it's quite acceptable to decide someone deserves death, and they applaud that death when it's carried out with deliberate and souless certainty. How often have you heard witness descriptions of school shooters as being deliberate and emotionless in their expression as they performed their executions?

It's all very well to adopt a "do as I say, not as I do" position, but it's clear that the brutality of the death penalty seeps out and contributes to the poisoning of American society.

As for the responses here not showing sympathy to those shot, how about some sympathy for the victims who didn't want their dead relative's memory darkened by a state-sanctioned killing? How about some sympathy for the executioners who suffer from PTSD? How about some sympathy for victims who have been brain-washed by prosecutors into thinking that only another killing will bring them closure, only to have all healing put on hold for 15-20 years....to have the raw wound of their loss continuously re-opened for decades, and then emerge from the death chamber to say "he didn't suffer enough", and go home to finally begin healing from not only their original loss, but from the further trauma of a death penalty process. I don't see any responses showing sympathy for those.

The death penalty touches many with it's corrupting hand, and there's no doubt the high level of murders in the USA, mass and otherwise, are related to it.

"Without any facts to base them on" you say? Wrong: http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/article.php?did=168

[Pavulon]

30. No, Just some sympathy for the injured/dead will suffice.(nt)

[Harper_is_Bush]

31. You completely ignored my points. I think you're confused...

...I didn't say the victims reaped what they sowed, I said the society did.

And I provided you some facts, so it's not baseless.

Instead of admitting or acknowleging any of that, you're trying to suggest I don't empathize with those affected by this shooting. A cheap tactic which is not appreciated.

Why do you chastise people on this forum for not showing enough sympathy here for these victims? Will the victims be reading this forum? Do people here know any of the victims? Would it be anything but empty posturing to write out our sympathy here? Go find a link to a memorial site where people can post messages of sympathy, and I'll gladly do so. Writing out such platitudes here is pointless, and chastising others for not doing so is disingenuous.

[Pavulon]

33. Sorry, see no need to debate Capital Punishment

in this thread. I did not insult you, just choose not to argue that here.

[Harper_is_Bush]

34. Then why did you respond to post 19 and question the "facts"

my comment was based upon?

:shrug:

[kestrel91316]

41. Oh, ok. Guess that explains why our murder rate went to zero when

the SC declared the death penalty unconstitutional back in the 70s........

[Harper_is_Bush]

42. That's like saying "there's global warming on mars, so obviously it's not human activity on earth"

I provided a link in post 21 that demonstrates States without the DP have consistently lower murder rates.

I also explained the idea the state condoning a culture in which death is something that someone can soberly decide is deserved for someone else, and then feel justified in doling it out.

You can be flippant about it if you like, of course. I don't think something that damages American society is a joke, myself.

[kestrel91316]

49. My guess would be that states with lower murder rates don't feel the need

to enact death penalty statutes.

You're gonna have to do a lot better than that to convince me of causation. The existence of Situation A coincident with Situation B in no way infers that Situation A CAUSED Situation B. Basic logic.

Jeebus. You're Canadian, I notice. Don't they teach you logic up THERE? I thought WE were the ones with the crappy educational system.

[slackmaster]

23. Yeah, Japan deserved to be nuked

:sarcasm:

[Harper_is_Bush]

32. That is some bizarre twisting of my point. Death from outside agents would not fit

with what I'm saying at all, obviously.

[lurky]

20. Skull cap?

If this guy is a Muslim, we are in for a major shitstorm. All the angry, paranoid, xenophobic RW Xtian types already think we are being infiltrated by terrorists, and the O'Reilly/Limbaugh types will fan the flames like nobody's business. Let's hope he just had a cold head.

[MindPilot]

22. Yeps that's already started.

Check the comments at the end of the article.

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/nation/20071209-0814-missionaryshooting.html

[lurky]

26. Doesn't surprise me.

This is pretty much guaranteed to knock all the NIE and CIA torture stories right out of the news cycle. "War on Christmas" becomes "War on Christians"? The blowhards won't be able to resist that bait.

[slackmaster]

24. There are skull caps, and there are skull caps

[lurky]

28. He he he!!

They didn't mention... Was the shooter buck-toothed and furry?
:-)

[Rocknrule]

37. I think Colorado is cursed

We've had way more than our share of gun tragedies

[Newsjock]

38. 4 Shot Outside New Life Church (Colorado Springs)

Source: KCNC

At least four people have been shot after gunman walked into New Life Church in Colorado Springs and opened fire, police said.

The suspect's description matches that of the suspect in a shooting at a Christian missionary center in Arvada early Sunday morning.

It's not clear if anyone was killed.

Read more: http://cbs4denver.com/crime/new.life.church.2.607121.html

[Rocknrule]

39. Hasn't Colorado had enough of this shit?

I think my state is cursed

[DS1]

40. If only Jesus had been armed

:cry:

[Pavulon]

47. Murdering asshole shot dead by security

ie another armed person who is not a police officer.

What a piece of shit. Both of these bastards..

One got a 40 cent fix for whatever his problem was.

[goforit]

48. I guess members will start to carry guns to church now.

[rainbow4321]

50. Shooting in Columbus, Ohio mall on Saturday

Don't know if this was covered in LBN along with the other shootings but saw this when I was reading an article referred to in a different LBN thread:

http://www.10tv.com/?sec=news&story=sites/10tv/content/pool/200712/1375469843.html

1 Wounded During Shooting Inside Mall


One man was wounded Saturday during the course of a shooting inside a mall on the city's southeast side.The Columbus Division of Police first received reports of gunfire at Eastland Mall at about 4:30 p.m., 10TV's Lindsey Seavert reported.

According to officers on the scene, the shooting occurred in the mall's common-area after two men started arguing with each other, Seavert reported.

The argument escalated and one man was shot in thigh, police said. The gunman had a prior grudge with the victim, according to detectives.

The gunman then ran through the mall as shoppers took cover, Seavert reported