Iraq's numbers don't add up, U.S. says (number of attacks, casualties aren't reliable)

[sabra]

Source: LA Times

American commanders rely increasingly on data compiled by the nation's forces, but fear they aren't fully reliable.

BAGHDAD -- As U.S. forces begin to scale back in Iraq, the military is becoming increasingly reliant on Iraqi forces to report a wide array of crucial statistics, from the number of attacks on the local infrastructure to how many Iraqi civilians have been killed or wounded.

And just as Iraqi forces have had a mixed record in fighting insurgents, they have been spotty at providing data from the regions where they have taken command.

Iraqi officials have been reporting far higher civilian death totals than those reported by U.S. forces, and aides to American commanders now acknowledge that the U.S. military probably had been undercounting such casualties.

...

The questionable nature of the Iraqi-compiled data, which is expected to become even more problematic as U.S. forces shrink back to pre-buildup levels over the next six months, has placed American commanders in an awkward position.

The more successful they are in turning over military responsibility to Iraqis, the U.S. officials think, the less likely they are to get reliable evidence that their techniques are working.

Read more: http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-iraqstats30nov30,1,205026.story?track=rss&ctrack=1&cset=true

[Lone_Star_Dem]

1. Bush does not care if it puts our soldiers in a bad situation

All he cares about is if by faking the numbers he comes out looking as if his surge worked. Period.

Our military and the people of Iraq will simply have to pay the price for making Bush and the politicians who are supporting the "surge" look good.

[sabra]

2. Bush got his headlines and numbers - mission accomplished

now the details will come out, and no one will really care...

[Lone_Star_Dem]

4. No, most people won't care.

Most are so desperate to believe that there is progress they're willing grab onto anything that shows a glimmer of that possiblity. Which is exactly what this administration was banking on.

What I'm growing increasingly concerned about is what is going to happen when the refugees ousted from Syria do all finally return. Iraq doesn't have the infrastructure to support them. Watching your loved ones die from disease, starvation, exposer and violence tends to cause people to commit desperate acts.

For all their playing with the numbers to show more military progress than what has taken place, neither Iraq nor the US governments are prepared for what's going to take place there over the coming months.

[TheLeftyMom]

3. It doesn't matter HOW they cook the books

We are in a quagmire and no matter how they whine and moan about withdrawal = surrender and "things are improving" and the "surge is working"... it's all crap. We shouldn't have gone in. We didn't do it with enough troops to do it right when we did. We didn't get out quick enough to avoid the civil war that was inevitable. Failure IS the only option. I'm just so mad about the fact that we have no chance of coming out of this with success, but the idiot war-mongerers keep dooming us to deeper and deeper levels of failure.

[mlevans]

5. Iraqi officials have been reporting far higher civilian death totals

than those reported by U.S. forces. Could it be that the Iraqi data is actually a more accurate picture? I see they go on to say that our military has likely been undercounting these casualties, and I suspect that's been going on since the beginning. The U.S. government casulaty reports have never seemed to jive up with those of any other organization that's been keeping track.

[Spazito]

6. So, the US military has been lying about the number of civilian

deaths while the Iraqi officials have been telling the truth yet the US military claims "The more successful they are in turning over military responsibility to Iraqis, the U.S. officials think, the less likely they are to get reliable evidence that their techniques are working."


Hmmm, in short, don't trust the truths the Iraqis tell, believe our lies say the US military.

Geez.

[Sam Ervin jret]

7. YOU MEAN THE IRAQI 'S ARE LYING WITH FIGURES? Now where would they learn that dirty trick?

[Supersedeas]

8. will this make the Television Media - acknowledge undercounting of Iraqi civilian casualties

Oil Advertising $$$ are betting that it won't

[Jacobin]

9. Paging General Westmoreland

Pick up the White Phone, please.

You're needed in the statistics office.

[donkeyotay]

10. More than numbers aren't adding up. Are we being lied to, again?

Sabra has another thread:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x3083906

Snow says Bush is 'vindicated' by progress in Iraq
Source: AP

OKLAHOMA CITY (AP) - Former White House Press Secretary Tony Snow defends his former boss' record in Iraq, saying recent military progress should vindicate President Bush.

Snow spoke to reporters before a scheduled dinner and speech at Oklahoma Christian University tonight.

He says history will show that Bush's decisions on Iraq policy were the correct ones.


http://www.kten.com/Global/story.asp?S=7430133&nav=menu410_3

[fascisthunter]

11. Ooooops... another Conservative Talking Point Goes "Poooof" (nt)

[HughMoran]

12. You mean the Iraqis don't know about the "divide by 2" rule?

I swear, every American report is 1/2 of what the locals report!